Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 88

Thread: Vegan Resources

  1. #1
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Vegan Resources

    I'm posting resources here on how to be a vegan if anyone would like. Not eating animal products seems to be so beneficial that the two times since I started going vegan that I consumed gelatin and milk byproducts with the justification that I wasn't creating any new demand for dead animals, I got painfully sick for a short amount of time, and I was wondering if I had a virus or something. If you're on the fence about killing animals to eat their flesh, don't kill animals.

    If anyone else has anything, please add it!

    Why Vegans Are Gross
    What Every Vegan Should Know About Vitamin B12
    12 Important Reasons To Go Vegan Today

  2. #2

  3. #3
    matter begone Antimattter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    TIM
    EII Male (WE EXIST)
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    cool stuff.

    in the last 2 years I've reduced my meat consumption to about 5% (holidays and special occasions only) and dairy to about a quarter.

    not sure if I'll ever be puristically vegan about it (having options in life is nice) but so far the change has been positive. I feel calmer, less irritable, more focused and more disciplined. my cardiovascular performance has enjoyed a major boost.

    I submit: nutritionfacts.org

    also a great tip if you want to cook legumes regularly is to get an electric pressure cooker such as the Instant Pot, which cuts down the boiling time to about 15 minutes and makes it an automated process. make sure to get a steaming rack so you can steam cruciferous vegetables in it as well.
    the blood of the Delta Quadra courses through my veins

  4. #4
    TRVE KVLT Armalite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Sweden
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 459 sp/sx
    Posts
    936
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The future is vegan

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    336
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have so many genes related to cancer from eating meat and saturated fat I'm already limiting myself to yogurt as far as animal products go.. but I'm willing to give that up to.

    I wouldn't mind a vegan diet, in fact, the only thing stopping me is that I don't really know half the vegetables at the market lol, like I just tried okra for the first time a few days ago.

    I might still be eating mealworms and crickets for the sake of easy protein.

  6. #6
    TRVE KVLT Armalite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Sweden
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 459 sp/sx
    Posts
    936
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The future is vegan, but chocolate milk is so damn good

  7. #7
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite View Post
    The future is vegan, but chocolate milk is so damn good
    Get chocolate soy or almond milk. It tastes just as good or better. I don't drink milk but vanilla soy milk for cereal and tea/coffee is already better than dairy milk in my opinion (chocolate in cereal or creamer seems like a bit much for me personally.) I've had chocolate almond milk before though and it was good.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimattter View Post
    cool stuff.

    in the last 2 years I've reduced my meat consumption to about 5% (holidays and special occasions only) and dairy to about a quarter.

    not sure if I'll ever be puristically vegan about it (having options in life is nice) but so far the change has been positive. I feel calmer, less irritable, more focused and more disciplined. my cardiovascular performance has enjoyed a major boost.

    I submit: nutritionfacts.org

    also a great tip if you want to cook legumes regularly is to get an electric pressure cooker such as the Instant Pot, which cuts down the boiling time to about 15 minutes and makes it an automated process. make sure to get a steaming rack so you can steam cruciferous vegetables in it as well.
    I'm not puristically vegan either. I still eat and buy things with honey and beeswax since most crops are pollinated by exploited bees and the honey, wax, etc. is just a byproduct. Unlike gelatin and cookies with egg, I haven't gotten sick from it either recently. It really makes me wonder what'd happen if that final bit of animal torture would be removed from our ecosystem and if the plant food would increase in quality.

    I also don't consider all animal products exploitative, which a site called The Vegan Society seems to. For example, feathers. If I go outside and some feathers are on the ground and I sterilize one and put it in my hat, that's not exploitative, though I've never done that (I need to now.) Birds just randomly lose feathers like humans just randomly lose hairs. It might be possible to have vegan versions of quite a few animal products just by being genuinely kind to animals, just like how some people have dog doors and manage to keep pet dogs from running away just by being a genuinely kind human. Anyone who thinks most of the natural world is not alive needs to find an oak and look for oak galls. Each of those "fruits" on the ground used to be a wasp's home, but it just looks like part of the tree. (Another animal product that's fine, as long as you stick with the ones on the ground and don't kill wasps by picking them off the tree. Iron gall ink is the bomb.) The world is alive and symbiotic, not dead and atomized. Many animals shed antlers which is also pretty significant, and I'm sure if you needed wool you could get it by kindly shearing a sheep that's getting hot in warm weather, though I don't buy wool since buying wool because it could be OK under different circumstances is like saying it's OK to rob a bank because you could win a few million dollars in the lottery or buying stocks. I'm also not going to go burn leather in a bonfire since that doesn't help anything and if an artist makes an artwork using animal products, I might still buy it or other non-commodity uses of animal products but that's still sad and I'd like to get people to stop making new non-commodity animal products as best I can. The people who are burning horsehair violin bows in a bonfire need to start a vegan violin company, not throw a tantrum.

  10. #10
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,966
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316028/ <A comparison between Mediterranean and Vegan Diets. Spoiler: both have benefits but slightly different benefits, and the vegans became deficient in a number of micronutrients. A preliminary small-scale study however, and only 4-weeks long.

    If you're going vegan you may need to consider making some additional adjustments and supplementation to meet nutritional requirements:
    It should be noted, however, that the VD group experienced marked reductions in a number of important micronutrients, including Iodine (∆ Iodine = −150.2) and Vitamin B12 (∆ Vitamin B12 = −4.0) by following their intervention. Such sizeable reductions should be of concern to individuals who adopt a vegan diet, as poor micronutrient status can have severe health implications over the long term. We provided participants with a Vitamin B12 supplement to offset an expected reduction in Vitamin B12 intake, however future studies might need also to be cognisant of the potential for other micronutrients, such as Sodium, Chloride, Phosphorous, Iodine, and Riboflavin to be reduced significantly too; and to offer suitable strategies to recompense for a reduced intake, if warranted.

  11. #11
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Iodine is in salt. B12 is in rotting dirt. Farmers feed synthetic iodine and B12 supplements to animals and then say those nutrients are only found in animal foods as marketing. I'm not kidding! I've already covered this. Nearly all nutrients found in animals are just from what they've eaten. Only animals make taurine but if you drink a can of Red Bull you already get about twice as much taurine as non-vegans and you don't die without taurine anyways. On the other hand, you do die of prions (mad cow disease.)

    Also, there's no such thing as a Mediterranean diet. Mediterranean people aren't on a special diet. Vegans aren't on a special diet either, for that matter, we just don't like commodifying animals, though not eating animals seems to do wonders for your health if you know what to eat instead since you aren't eating their diseases. Please, do tell me what not being "on a diet" is like in reality-based terms that won't result in dying in under a week. Eating five bacon cheeseburgers and three banana splits a days is not something anyone does because everyone seems to be on some kind of diet.

    Oh, and here's a recipe for vegan gyros. If anyone is actually from Greece or another Mediterranean country and has recipes for vegan Mediterranean food, please share it and I am making it.

  12. #12
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,966
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Iodine is in salt. B12 is in rotting dirt. Farmers feed synthetic iodine and B12 supplements to animals and then say those nutrients are only found in animal foods as marketing. I'm not kidding! I've already covered this. Nearly all nutrients found in animals are just from what they've eaten. Only animals make taurine but if you drink a can of Red Bull you already get about twice as much taurine as non-vegans and you don't die without taurine anyways. On the other hand, you do die of prions (mad cow disease.)

    Also, there's no such thing as a Mediterranean diet. Mediterranean people aren't on a special diet. Vegans aren't on a special diet either, for that matter, we just don't like commodifying animals, though not eating animals seems to do wonders for your health if you know what to eat instead since you aren't eating their diseases. Please, do tell me what not being "on a diet" is like in reality-based terms that won't result in dying in under a week. Eating five bacon cheeseburgers and three banana splits a days is not something anyone does because everyone seems to be on some kind of diet.

    Oh, and here's a recipe for vegan gyros. If anyone is actually from Greece or another Mediterranean country and has recipes for vegan Mediterranean food, please share it and I am making it.
    Sigh, it's just called the Mediterranean diet, because it's based on some traditional foods eaten in the region, like olive oil etc, it's just a name. And it's been around for years and recommended by cardiologists for years. You can look up the specifics of it. But in summary, it's a high vegetable diet, with olive oil and fish and any other meats are less often eaten and in smaller quantities.

    Yes, iodine is added to iodized salt, and table salt is NaCl so you're getting sodium there too. Most people end up with too much sodium, but guess the folks trying out the vegan diet weren't putting much salt on their food or something. And no, when you buy grass-fed beef the farmers are not supplementing the cows with B12 lol. Ruminants create it in their guts from their gut bacteria. They might put out a salt lick for the cows though, because like us cows too need salt and that may contain other minerals as well. Deer and other animals seek out natural salt deposits as well and supplement themselves. Also, the cause of mad cow disease is feeding cows other cows ground up into their feed, which obviously doesn't happen if they're eating grass. . .

    Veganism is a diet, as a diet is just a way of eating, and yes it's deficient in nutrients. I'm not trying to discourage you from doing it, just saying that you'll probably need to supplement.

    As far as mistreatment. . . well, that depends on where you're getting your meat and milk. I get raw milk from local dairies here that I go to in person, and no the cows are not mistreated. I can also get local grass-fed beef and lamb, and have also seen in person how those animals are raised. None of them are mistreated. If you consider any use of an animal exploitation and mistreatment, well okay, I understand where you're coming from, but I personally don't agree. I raise my own chickens and ducks for eggs so I'm one of those exploiters too I guess. I do have issues with feed lots and factory chickens and eggs - those are really disgusting, you'll see a big tin building and inside it's packed wall to wall with chickens, or feed lots where the cows are standing on hills of their own poop crammed together on bare ground or concrete fattening them up. But the small local farms around me are nothing like that.

  13. #13
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I’ve been an intentional vegan for almost a year and I’m still trying to sort out what is good for me and what is not.

    I cut out dairy and meat and eggs and fish (and I hate tofu) and supplemented with B-12 and iron and I generally feel pretty good. I assume my arteries are not being irritated now so much as when I was having bacon and eggs for breakfast and steak for lunch, because my teeth aren’t plaquing up at all.

    I was on vacation in Chile for a week where it was practically impossible to find a decent vegan meal, so I ended up eating salmon (I love salmon) every day and I felt distinctly worse. I mean, I felt immediately better and more alive, but it was the kind of feeling I get when I’ve been punched. Probably not good in the long run.

    I have been flirting with veganism for a while, and I’ve found that in my own case, it was difficult to get adequate amounts of protein from the foods I was eating. Even with lentil soup and lots of chickpeas, I wasn’t getting enough. I now have almond milk and 21 grams of protein from protein powder shakes (non-dairy, no soy, no eggs) in the morning and that seems to have fixed things.

    Esselstyn says “no oils at all”, but I haven’t managed that yet. I’m still feeling this out.

    So far, I seem to be heading towards a diet which consists of all-plants; whole food (no processing) vegetables and fruits, with some grains (quinoa and oats) and legumes, protein powder (from Plant Fusion), tree nuts, green tea and coffee.

    It probably helps that I’m Si-PoLR, because a gourmet probably couldn’t do this.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-22-2019 at 02:14 PM.

  14. #14
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Sigh, it's just called the Mediterranean diet, because it's based on some traditional foods eaten in the region, like olive oil etc, it's just a name. And it's been around for years and recommended by cardiologists for years. You can look up the specifics of it. But in summary, it's a high vegetable diet, with olive oil and fish and any other meats are less often eaten and in smaller quantities.

    Yes, iodine is added to iodized salt, and table salt is NaCl so you're getting sodium there too. Most people end up with too much sodium, but guess the folks trying out the vegan diet weren't putting much salt on their food or something. And no, when you buy grass-fed beef the farmers are not supplementing the cows with B12 lol. Ruminants create it in their guts from their gut bacteria. They might put out a salt lick for the cows though, because like us cows too need salt and that may contain other minerals as well. Deer and other animals seek out natural salt deposits as well and supplement themselves. Also, the cause of mad cow disease is feeding cows other cows ground up into their feed, which obviously doesn't happen if they're eating grass. . .

    Veganism is a diet, as a diet is just a way of eating, and yes it's deficient in nutrients. I'm not trying to discourage you from doing it, just saying that you'll probably need to supplement.

    As far as mistreatment. . . well, that depends on where you're getting your meat and milk. I get raw milk from local dairies here that I go to in person, and no the cows are not mistreated. I can also get local grass-fed beef and lamb, and have also seen in person how those animals are raised. None of them are mistreated. If you consider any use of an animal exploitation and mistreatment, well okay, I understand where you're coming from, but I personally don't agree. I raise my own chickens and ducks for eggs so I'm one of those exploiters too I guess. I do have issues with feed lots and factory chickens and eggs - those are really disgusting, you'll see a big tin building and inside it's packed wall to wall with chickens, or feed lots where the cows are standing on hills of their own poop crammed together on bare ground or concrete fattening them up. But the small local farms around me are nothing like that.
    Veganism is deficient and carnism is also deficient. Cows do produce B12 in their intestines, but please tell me the last time you ate cow manure. Humans also produce B12 in their intestines, though we don't absorb our own B12. It's called poop.

    Breeding animals just to take their animal products and kill them when plant food is readily available is mistreatment. Killing calfs and throwing them in the trash when you could let them go free is mistreatment. Even if you just wanted to be like "I'm a human and I have dominion over nature," killing baby inbred animals to take their mom's milk and drink it like you're a baby cow is not particularly impressive and masterful. I already said not all uses of animals are mistreatment, but the commodification of animal flesh and excretions is inherently mistreatment no matter how gentle you are. Do you actually read posts before you reply?

    Mediterranean Diet Best Diet Ever? Not So Fast

    I endorse this article even if it's Huffingpaint Post.

  15. #15
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don’t have skin in this game, but when people stop eating cows (or cow products), then cows will probably go extinct.

  16. #16
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There will probably still be wild cows running around Asian mountain ranges and the Alps like there already are. Yes, the black and white cows will probably go extinct.











    That's pretty majestic. I think they'll survive unless hunting becomes a problem.








    That, not as much.

  17. #17
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,966
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Veganism is deficient and carnism is also deficient. Cows do produce B12 in their intestines, but please tell me the last time you ate cow manure.
    You try my patience. Ignorance combined with arrogance does that. The animal absorbs the b12 produced and it is present in their meat. Ruminants (animals like cows, sheep, deer, moose, all the land animals that are listed as "clean" in the bible iow, those that chew their cud and have a split hoof) are called ruminants for a reason - it's how they process their food - chewing their cud and the digestive process that they go through. Their gut bacteria are a key part of this process. Look it up. Or don't. Our digestive systems do not work the same way and any b12 produced in our guts is unable to be absorbed. Look that up too if you'd like. Or haughtily wallow in your own ignorance. Fish get B12 from phytoplankton btw, and the predatory fish get theirs from the smaller fish they eat. . .

  18. #18
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    You try my patience. Ignorance combined with arrogance does that. The animal absorbs the b12 produced and it is present in their meat. Ruminants (animals like cows, sheep, deer, moose, all the land animals that are listed as "clean" in the bible iow, those that chew their cud and have a split hoof) are called ruminants for a reason - it's how they process their food - chewing their cud and the digestive process that they go through. Their gut bacteria are a key part of this process. Look it up. Or don't. Our digestive systems do not work the same way and any b12 produced in our guts is unable to be absorbed. Look that up too if you'd like. Or haughtily wallow in your own ignorance. Fish get B12 from phytoplankton btw, and the predatory fish get theirs from the smaller fish they eat. . .
    Eating beef or fish twice a day for life, which is how much beef or fish you'd need to eat to get all your B12 "naturally," is still not good for you and will give you cancer, never mind we don't need to kill animals to take their B12 and for most of history we got it by fertilizing crops with manure. The "Mediterranean Diet" recommends much less meat than 2 servings a day, and farmers still do supplement B12 to all animals including cows. Chickens, turkeys, etc. still don't produce bioavailable B12 any more than humans do. Historically people got meat including fish about once a week and the wealthy got it somewhat more. Please just take a supplement instead of gorging on meat.

    Praise be to arrogance!

  19. #19

  20. #20
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Maizistan
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    586
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I don’t have skin in this game, but when people stop eating cows (or cow products), then cows will probably go extinct.
    Even if cows aren’t eaten at all, they still have agricultural uses: mostly pulling heavy objects, but they also produce manure. A few cows aren’t expensive at all to keep if you have grassland to sustain them, and it’s possible to grow corn or hay for the winter. My mother’s family was quite poor, and practiced substinence agriculture, but they were entirely able to keep a few cows and bulls for these purposes (though they drank their milk and ate their meat as well, which massively drives up their practicality to raise).

  21. #21
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Historical farmers and contemporary ones using healthy cows is not an excuse for people like @squark to chomp chomp chomp a GMO dead cow's leg that was raised for her Mickey D's solely as luxury though. If anyone here was obsessed with food, it'd totally be squark though. I talk about vegan violin bows and she changes the topic to "veganism is another diet." No. It's easy for me to eat no animal products since I'm no foodie. It's hard for me to avoid, say, animal products in paints, because I'm a huge "artie" on the other hand. Regardless, I'm going to try to get them removed.

  22. #22
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @squark chomp chomp chomp’s dead cow legs?

    I gotta say, most LSI’s have better table manners than that.

  23. #23
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Vegan and Animal-Free Paints & Art Materials

    I'm still using the beeswax paints until I can guarantee my survival without exploiting bees and/or I find a replacement that's better, which I doubt. I prefer Free from Harm and even obnoxious PETA over the Vegan Society (linked here.) Being a vegan is not more important than being an artist, not by a long shot. I'd harm myself for art if I had to so harming animals if I have to is really the Golden Rule in action. I don't buy bone black or watercolor with ox gall because there are good substitutes, but boycotting 100% of commercial oil paints to make a statement rather than working on making more animal-friendly paints is just lazy, immature, and causing more harm than it can ever solve (depriving people of beauty vs. using a bee byproduct that's going to exist until we stop exploiting bees to, believe it or not, raise food to eat cows.)

  24. #24
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    It’s going to be a long haul before we can adjust our activities to keep from negatively impacting some creatures or others. However, I think it’s worth trying.

  25. #25
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,966
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @squark chomp chomp chomp’s dead cow legs?

    I gotta say, most LSI’s have better table manners than that.
    What can I say, just a cavewoman I guess.

  26. #26
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    What can I say, just a cavewoman I guess.
    @coeruleum is right about McD’s being bad for you. If you’re gonna live a long time, you might have to give it up.

  27. #27
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It’s going to be a long haul before we can adjust our activities to keep from negatively impacting some creatures or others. However, I think it’s worth trying.
    I was just logging on to post this:

    IS HONEY VEGAN?

    Regardless of whether you choose to eat honey or not, I think it is important to realize that we are all still part of a system that exploits honey bees. Commercial beekeepers place bees in orchards and on farms so that they can pollinate the fruits, nuts and vegetables that we all consume. Thousands of beehives are loaded on semi trucks and moved all over the country for pollination services. The bees are subject to confinement during travel, which causes stress and health problems. When they arrive at their new location, they are exposed to pesticides and fungicides en masse. Their nutrition is limited due to widespread monocropping. On top of all that, their honey is often taken from them. In their weakened state, diseases and pests spread easily through the colonies of which there are usually too many and too close a proximity. This brings us to the importance of knowing where your food comes from. Find out where and how it was grown. Support small, local farms with sustainable practices.
    I'm still using beeswax and honey and trying to end this kind of practice instead of stamping my feet and signing The Vegan Pledge and basically giving up my life (if I didn't use paints with beeswax, it'd be something else.) Leave the world better than you found it like a Girl Scout rather than watching it burn like the Joker. Ironically, not eating meat is pragmatically easy even for people who are food-obsessed and not me eating boxed linguini and beans with soy sauce and sriracha. People just eat partially for social reasons even if they're just autistic-seeming assholes. I know people who brag that they have no friends and I can't get them to read a Kafka short story or Keats poem, yet they beg to forcefeed me bologna and cheddar. To get even darker fast, those people all die young after noshing on the Mickey D's and not having any skills, hobbies, organizations, or relationships. Sp/So undoes themselves. As they say of synflow, human, all too human...

  28. #28
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @coeruleum is right about McD’s being bad for you. If you’re gonna live a long time, you might have to give it up.
    I'm not assuming squark loves McDonald's so much as venting about it being the main hobby of idiots. Whenever my parents went on vacation, it was McDonald's every day for a week or so with maybe some Wendy's or Arby's. My mom planned a vacation to see trees in California, saw a grand total of two kinds of trees (redwoods and sequoyas,) did no botany for the whole two weeks, ordered fast food all the time, and left. She planned a trip to Washington, D.C., decided it was too full of dead people and politics, and spent the rest of the time chewing up some chicken in New Jersey while yelling at me, then left. Needless to say, my mom died alone at 55 of spending her life putting down some pork and seething about how evil my love of intellect and art was for not putting food on other people's tables. My grandpa lived for two years after she did and he was in his late 80s.

    Philistines return to Dagon. Now I ignore them well.

  29. #29
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,011
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Good trip planning is an art. So is living well. Not everyone is equally skilled at this stuff. I’m just glad I know an ILI trip planner for the trip part and I have access to the internet for the living part.

  30. #30
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,079
    Mentioned
    913 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    What can I say, just a cavewoman I guess.
    lol I have told this story before but it is worth repeating. My EII sister goes through phases where she gets a guilty conscience and wants to improve the environment and the health of everyone. When she goes vegetarian or full vegan I try to stay away since she can't just do it for herself. She has to judge everyone else's choices too. She is a bit more balanced in her perspective these days, ftr and does eat a bit of meat and uses bone broth due to some article. When she was here she made us all have bone broth. hah

    Anyway years ago during a vegan phase she was trying to scare or guilt the family into giving up meat. Sending us images of geese being force fed, telling us to check labels and ethical practices of companies, etc... It was part of her arsenal. An EII with a mission is like a force to be reckoned with so this thread does not really elicit much feeling in me since I am somewhat numb to it.

    So she says to a two year "how would you like it if a cow ate you?" and he looked at her with these innocent eyes and responded "but I like eating cows!". It made everyone laugh since it was cute and the guilt didn't work on him. This is not one of her finer moments. I couldn't believe she tried to guilt a two year old that way. That just shows how guilt stricken and neurotic she had become over the whole thing. I believe she learned a lesson that day. Not long after she went back to having fish and some meat. She is still into healthy eating and all that since we were raised on the Mediterranean diet by default since it is part of our heritage really. This story comes to mind every time I see something about veganism. There is a moral in it somewhere but I think it would be different for each person who hears it.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  31. #31

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    716
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In a sufficiently advanced civilized society, the mere thought of killing another being to consume it would be shunned as barbaric. It is stated in the ancient vedic text "The Laws of Manu" that the only occasion a person is permitted to eat meat is if their life is in danger. There will come a day when humanity will look back at this era where animals are bred and slaughtered by the millions every day, as an abomination. The B12 myth is a distortion; if foods were grown using organic methods, and water not treated with chemicals, we would receive enough quantities of B12 from a purely plant based diet.

    Humans are not carnivores; we do not have paws, we don't have prominent canines. Our closest animal cousin, the monkey, is not a carnivore. We were given the ability to eat meat only in case of emergency.
    Last edited by mclane; 09-23-2019 at 12:02 AM.

  32. #32
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Good trip planning is an art. So is living well. Not everyone is equally skilled at this stuff. I’m just glad I know an ILI trip planner for the trip part and I have access to the internet for the living part.
    You'd at least think they'd call it off instead of blowing thousands to pretend they don't just want to munch up some McDonald's for 2-3 meals a day though. However, being exposed to omnipresent advertisements and overpowering reeking plastic food is the Sublime for philistines. Hail Dagon.

    Everyone (demographically-speaking) should be able to live well in the philosophical sense, which is the true one.

  33. #33
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    In a sufficiently advanced civilized society, the mere thought of killing another being to consume it would be shunned as barbaric. It is stated in the ancient vedic text "The Laws of Manu" that the only occasion a person is permitted to eat meat is if their life is in danger. There will come a day when humanity will look back at this era where animals are bred and slaughtered by the millions every day, as an abomination. The B12 myth is a distortion; if foods were grown using organic methods, and water not treated with chemicals, we would receive enough quantities of B12 from a purely plant based diet.

    Humans are not carnivores; we do not have paws, we don't have prominent canines. Our closest animal cousin, the monkey, is not a carnivore. We were given the ability to eat meat only in case of emergency.
    Most carnivores would probably be vegan in an ideal world too. Apparently there was once a vegan lion who lived many years longer than most lions. "And the lion shall lie down with the lamb..." Veganism makes me feel apocalyptic.

  34. #34
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,079
    Mentioned
    913 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    In a sufficiently advanced civilized society, the mere thought of killing another being to consume it would be shunned as barbaric. It is stated in the ancient vedic text "The Laws of Manu" that the only occasion a person is permitted to eat meat is if their life is in danger. There will come a day when humanity will look back at this era where animals are bred and slaughtered by the millions every day, as an abomination. The B12 myth is a distortion; if foods were grown using organic methods, and water not treated with chemicals, we would receive enough quantities of B12 from a purely plant based diet.
    In a sufficiently civilized society poverty would not be an issue. But sure let's worry about the animal products in our art supplies or what other people choose or have to eat or wear to survive. We all have causes that tug at the heartstrings. Do your part and let the rest work itself out over time. We are only human, for now. A sufficiently civilized society would probably comprehend that their ancestors did their best to change things, made a lot of mistakes along the way, therefore getting them to the point where they wouldn't be judging their choices OR maybe the civilized society I am thinking of is more advanced than the one you are thinking of.

    https://www.povertyusa.org/facts

    https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/poverty/

    https://worldpoverty.io/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  35. #35
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    lol I have told this story before but it is worth repeating. My EII sister goes through phases where she gets a guilty conscience and wants to improve the environment and the health of everyone. When she goes vegetarian or full vegan I try to stay away since she can't just do it for herself. She has to judge everyone else's choices too. She is a bit more balanced in her perspective these days, ftr and does eat a bit of meat and uses bone broth due to some article. When she was here she made us all have bone broth. hah

    Anyway years ago during a vegan phase she was trying to scare or guilt the family into giving up meat. Sending us images of geese being force fed, telling us to check labels and ethical practices of companies, etc... It was part of her arsenal. An EII with a mission is like a force to be reckoned with so this thread does not really elicit much feeling in me since I am somewhat numb to it.

    So she says to a two year "how would you like it if a cow ate you?" and he looked at her with these innocent eyes and responded "but I like eating cows!". It made everyone laugh since it was cute and the guilt didn't work on him. This is not one of her finer moments. I couldn't believe she tried to guilt a two year old that way. That just shows how guilt stricken and neurotic she had become over the whole thing. I believe she learned a lesson that day. Not long after she went back to having fish and some meat. She is still into healthy eating and all that since we were raised on the Mediterranean diet by default since it is part of our heritage really. This story comes to mind every time I see something about veganism. There is a moral in it somewhere but I think it would be different for each person who hears it.
    If she can't avoid eating meat without forcing other people to she sucks. In my family one of my cousins went vegan at about the same time as me and another was already vegetarian. Most of my family is in Oklahoma with all the "Eat Beef" plates everywhere. Maybe when you live around Nature you can know more about food without obsessing about it. Your sister just sounds obsessed with food. Ick. I would rather obsess over books. I tried to get Barnes and Noble to make their Leatherbound Classics vegan since most people seem to think bonded leather is low-grade synthetic leather anyways based on online reviews of the books (it's not, it's low-grade cow leather. They should use high-grade synthetic.) They haven't done it yet. I will try again with more people asking them. I also want the Apocrypha and the rest of the Doré illustrations in the KJV.

  36. #36
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,079
    Mentioned
    913 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    If she can't avoid eating meat without forcing other people to she sucks. In my family one of my cousins went vegan at about the same time as me and another was already vegetarian. Most of my family is in Oklahoma with all the "Eat Beef" plates everywhere. Maybe when you live around Nature you can know more about food without obsessing about it. Your sister just sounds obsessed with food. Ick. I would rather obsess over books. I tried to get Barnes and Noble to make their Leatherbound Classics vegan since most people seem to think bonded leather is low-grade synthetic leather anyways based on online reviews of the books (it's not, it's low-grade cow leather. They should use high-grade synthetic.) They haven't done it yet. I will try again with more people asking them. I also want the Apocrypha and the rest of the Doré illustrations in the KJV.
    Aren't you worried about the trees?! Use a tablet or kindle to read your books and save some trees. :

    My sister is an artist obsessed with her art (she spends hours painting out in nature) and has a physical library that almost rivals mine. She is obsessed with health a bit but I don't hold it against her since her first husband died of cancer. It fucked her up.

    We have never been huge meat eaters and she weighs all of 90 lbs so not really a foodie either. You are assuming we have never lived around nature which is off the mark. You seem to be going through something right now. Hope you are alright but if you want to insult someone's family stick to your own. You made too many assumptions about her that are so off I can't even unpack it right now. I just told the story since it is amusing but it does not define the whole of who she is.

    Your posts in this thread are the equivalent of what she did, judging and trying to guilt others to do what you want.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  37. #37
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,966
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Humans are not carnivores; we do not have paws, we don't have prominent canines. Our closest animal cousin, the monkey, is not a carnivore.
    Yeah, we're both omnivores. Humans have canines, incisors and molars.

  38. #38
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm waiting for philistines to munch munch munch up the dust if they like bringing ruin to all things. Chompy chewy greasy weasy, feelin' good's bedder den bein' good which is snoody. If doing what I want means not harming animals, people should. I'm sorry if you only see the shadow of what's above you in the light.

  39. #39
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,623
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Yeah, we're both omnivores. Humans have canines, incisors and molars.
    Jesus, have you read any of my articles before posting? The largest canines in the world are on hippos. Hippos, while also the world's deadliest animal, eat no meat.

  40. #40
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,079
    Mentioned
    913 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Yeah, we're both omnivores. Humans have canines, incisors and molars.
    Chimpanzees are also cannibalistic. Fortunately most humans aren't.

    Hippy apes caught cannibalising their young

    A friend and I were watching "Fear the Walking Dead" yesterday and we both agreed a zombie apocalypse would be hell on earth. We agreed to hit up the local drugstore for one last party then shoot ourselves in the head since the idea of sleeping next to someone for months or years after it started was too great a risk since they could die in their sleep, wake up and start having you as a midnight snack while you slept. I still love watching these zombie series. lol They are thought provoking.


    While the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average – study of the same aspects of the chimpanzee genome indicates a difference of about 1.2%. The bonobo (Pan paniscus), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), differs from humans to the same degree. The DNA difference with gorillas, another of the African apes, is about 1.6%. Most importantly, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all show this same amount of difference from gorillas. A difference of 3.1% distinguishes us and the African apes from the Asian great ape, the orangutan. How do the monkeys stack up? All of the great apes and humans differ from rhesus monkeys, for example, by about 7% in their DNA.

    Geneticists have come up with a variety of ways of calculating the percentages, which give different impressions about how similar chimpanzees and humans are. The 1.2% chimp-human distinction, for example, involves a measurement of only substitutions in the base building blocks of those genes that chimpanzees and humans share. A comparison of the entire genome, however, indicates that segments of DNA have also been deleted, duplicated over and over, or inserted from one part of the genome into another. When these differences are counted, there is an additional 4 to 5% distinction between the human and chimpanzee genomes.

    No matter how the calculation is done, the big point still holds: humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos are more closely related to one another than either is to gorillas or any other primate. From the perspective of this powerful test of biological kinship, humans are not only related to the great apes – we are one. The DNA evidence leaves us with one of the greatest surprises in biology: the wall between human, on the one hand, and ape or animal, on the other, has been breached. The human evolutionary tree is embedded within the great apes.
    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •