Last edited by squark; 09-23-2019 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Embedded video rather than linking
What's a good b12 supplement.. like are there any differences at all as to its sources or chemical formula?
I follow a whole-foods, plant-based diet. I don't really have any problems. I don't do it because of the animals, but because studies (that aren't sponsored by the meat and dairy industry) clearly show that it's the healthiest diet. 80% of the amazon rainforest is purposely set of fire for animal agriculture and meat consumption is one of the major reasons for climate change. was really not a difficult decision for me. just make sure that you get B12 and that you eat enough.
It seems fitting that humans are between a species which routinely commits infanticide, is hyper-violent, hierarchical, and patriarchal, and one which is matriarchal, relatively egalitarian, peaceful, and hyper-sexual. Almost as if we desire the impulses of the latter but can’t shake those of the former.
About the dick length, I like to imagine there was selective pressure in both bonobos and humans toward males who could better please females.
As a goatherd learns his trade by goat, so a writer learns his trade by wrote.
still I take Dean Winchester's side here
I don't like recommending a book I haven't read, but I think you may find it interesting so here it is:If anyone else has anything, please add it!
"The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability"
here's what I ate yesterday
for breakfast I almost always have a smoothie bowl. 2 bananas, spinach, 2 tablespoons of linseeds and oatmeal, a handful of walnuts, 2-3 dates, a handful of blueberries/raspberries/strawberries.
looks like this. sometimes I eat two in a day and it already puts me >1000 kalories. takes five minutes to make and taste very good.
if I'm going to be a vegan it'd be for health reasons onlyI'm not going to become a professional chef just because I want to avoid harming animals as much as possible.
I'm not sure if I'd be around that long, but sure why notIf I ever meet a vegan chef, I'll have them post here for you, OK?
Incidentally, vegan food is almost a paradox. It's easy to get vegan food because aside from everyone having to eat, everyone is fairly likely to be obsessed with food, but hard to get people to eat it even though it's basically identical to non-vegan food because mah meeltimes, though non-vegan objects are harder to avoid acquiring even though it's less of an issue socially because everyone goes like "they're byproducts" and doesn't bother making completely vegan books, paints, etc.
I became vegetarian at 13, for straight moral reasons. I’ve spent more than half of my life as a veggie, so to speak, with on and off moments, and right now I’m not following it.
There are a lot of misconceptions around both meat and only-vegetables consumption. In terms of health, a strictly vegetables diet lacks: iron, calcium, vitamin d, a, b. Sure, you can take supplements and increase the amount of a specific food that contains a specific element, but it’s just easier to have foods that cover more substances. Meat is fundamental while growing up, its deficiency can easily compromise a full development.
So, the real problem about the mass consumption of meat seems to be the environment. Half of worldwide agriculture is fed to cows and pigs, destroying the forests and all. Well, this is just one side of the picture. The huge agricultures in specific places around the world are in fact destroying the local economies of the poorest countries, that are sold those grains at half the price they’d spend in cultivating their own fields. Leaving them without a job and with a wasted land that would instead benefit from agriculture.
This happens in my country as well, which is far from poor, the agriculture is destroyed because we buy contaminated grains from Canada, grains that is full of gmos and other shit. Fuck that. We get more sick from that than anything.
The ideal would be not to stop consuming meat, as if that helped solve the problems of pollution. The ideal would be to have a better consciousness regarding what we buy and what we eat. The ideal would be to enhance the local farmers, help hem work the soil, so to keep it fertile and alive, while now it’s dying thanks to the bombarding of pesticides that we allow to produce all the soy, wheat, whatnot, you say it.
If we can’t think of killing a cow without a sense of repulsion, we feel instead super free to kill billions of precious bacteria and little animals just to get some lettuce. Not to talk about all the plants we kill, but ok… maybe they just don’t have a consciousness… or do they.
Have you ever actually grown anything?
Yup, have you ever tried? How do you make your soil workable? You kill the animals and plants that would naturally inhabit it. Even if you go organic, the same process applies. So, the true question is, which beings is it better to kill in order to sustain ourselves?
Now, it’s great that many people go vegetarian/vegan, it has certain benefits for the health (industrial meat is fed with hormones and antibiotics) and it helps gain a good consciousness of the world around us. But it would be naive to think the problem lies there.
Things as they are now, the massive huge companies that produce food for the whole world, are the main cause of pollution. Not meat. Animals, fed naturally, left free to roam in a field, are a boon for the soil and for the people that will take back the products of that work. It’s an ecosystem. It has always worked like this, yet there’s never been the pollution we have now.
The soy you eat is just as contaminated as the meat you don’t eat. To produce all that soy we pollute and exploit the soil and fuck up the balance of this ecosystem.
We have to start thinking more locally, yet more universally. We have to rethink the entire idea of a capitalistic (over)production, that’s the true problem here.
I only drink water and milk for about 5 months now. The Canadian Food Guide came out with a new guide this Jan. and they removed all juices from the reccomended doses. The official highest nutritional guide now ONLY recommends drinking water. They also cut back on dairy, and added fresh meat sources like hunted meat haha.
Its not hard once you get used to it. I love juice, so if I have a glass here or there I don't beat myself up about it. I also love apple juice which I juice myself with a juicer I own. But.. only water.
imho the vegan diet is not for me and its not for the majority of North Americans. News flash, North America, the physical land continent itself, outside of the food belts is pretty agriculturally desolate. Not to mention umm, it freezes solid for 5-7 months out of the year.....this diet is seasonally dependent as well as globilization dependent. There are reasons it was challenging to colonize the west and in part because they're wasn't a ton of food growing everywhere. The Boreal, Pine, Cedar-Hemlock, Deciduous, Swapland forest, Desert, and Sage-Brush desert landscapes have limited calorie sources. Meat and fat is the only way to get high value nutrition. eg. research Pemmican (berry, nuts, congealed in animal fat as bars)
The vegan diet is sustainable for tropical and sub tropics, as well as places vegan options are locally abundant.
Plus, vegan diets don't provide the proper sources of food energy during the winter. When I'm working in the bush for 10-13 hours a day in half nighttime darkness in -30 centigrade I NEED high calorie, high animal fat foods to keep my furnace burning.
Sorry for the useless post in your thread.
When you skim away and cut down all of the reasonings people are Vegan it really comes down to this:
Animal farming in todays industrial era is kinda sinister. Nobody likes to see little male baby chickens tossed into a meat grinder alive, because only the female chicks are desirable. You would have to be kinda closed off in the empathy department to not have a negative reaction to this sort of thing.
Nobody likes seeing pigs throats slit and their blood gush out in productive en-masse conveyer belt lines. Hung up upside down by hooks. Its dark shit.
So, it all comes down to "I just don't like the industrial killing and living conditions" .
You have all of the other justification stemming from these points, eg: its polluting the environment - true, but the killing is worser so...
its unhealthy - not really, but killing is worser so
So, it really comes down to the inhumanity of it all. It was less scary when we killed our animals in-house on small scales. The local butcher was your friend. This is why I see return to grass roots life style, a esoterically DELTA type venture. You know, eat what you kill and butcher, grow your own food, give to your neighbours, healthy community type stuff.
When I met my good ex..
He would take a lame chicken and grab it by the legs and smash it against a building... I was like, what the actual fuck. Haha.
the problem is not the meat eating, the problem is the revulsion modern people have, and aversion to death spectacle violence. Rightly so, but where does it end though? When we are all Buddhist monks following the 5 precepts and not even killing a bug?
Many people in Asia have been vegan since the time of the Vedas in India. I don't think it's some sort of inherent sin to kill an animal, but killing it because you just love you some pork to munch on and a little bit of cheddar is a sin if anything ever was. It's like a sacrifice to the god of gluttony. In the past and still in the present, many, many people have actually had to eat animals for economic reasons, practical reasons, and knowledge reasons. Eating animals just because you like the taste or think it's "nature" is just gluttony, and from experience there's nothing that needs to nosh on some dust more than a glutton, who tries to get rid of my books and then use the money to shovel Oreos down my throat.
No, many hindu are vegetarian, not vegans, which is the trend of the west of the last years.
Amrita (cow milk butter) is the nectar of the gods and that which created the world. Btw, you should know that religious texts give an imprint to have a sustainable life based on the particular geography of a territory, muslims for instance have forbidden pig meat because in the hot climates it is excessively heavy and hard to digest. To hindus, the cows are holy and shouldn't be eaten, not all the other animals. Yet hindus consume cow milk products and use cows' skins to make leather, eh. On the other hand, for many, meat was and still is a luxury, and the hindus vegetarianism has more to do with their poverty than with their moral duties.
Consuming meat isn't about cruelty or abuse, but us being natural omnivores. When I eat a hamburger I am not sexually molesting it, cruelly taunting it or mocking it, being condescending towards it, and/or depriving it of equal societal rights. Like y'know, the way a human would treat a human. I am eating it to sustain myself for the specific taste and nutrients it provides, and I'm actually greatly respectful of what I am eating. IT is not about cruelty. I don't arrogantly think about how much better I am than a cow, but how we are both connected via the cycle of life.
It is about nature, not a matter of right/wrong.
Bad diets aren't so much about consuming meat, but consuming processed foods and chemicals that are scientifically known to cause cancerous tumors in mice (ewww). And even then you always hear about ppl who eat perfectly and get cancer and die at 45 and ppl who smoke two packs a day and ate shit their entire lives and live in their 90s so ... my point is, nutrition is very complex and what one person can handle nutritionally greatly varies from the other person. Eat a fad diet if you want to stay healthy but don't think it makes you morally superior than anybody or anything lol.
I decided that the best way to confront all-consuming gluttony is simply to confront all-consuming gluttony. Anyways, nothing a human can do can make an animal have welfare in the sense a human can have it since, imagine this: humans don't need to eat anything at all or make anything else with animal products. A human walks in the woods and a deer sees them. The deer is still as traumatized as if you slaughtered its entire family, because animals are just stupid and traumatized by everything. Treating animals with respect and not overconsuming is enough.
Yes, the environment would be saved if people stopped farming cows, but if people weren't gluttons it'd also be saved with farming cows. That's about as honest as the guy who said maths didn't help Einstein discover gravity. Technically, it's true, but not in any meaningful sense. I bet the people pushing veganism for climate change are huge gluttons like the idiots I know since in terms of utilitarian value, I couldn't justify not using oil paints with beeswax. I mean taking some wax from bees that they absolutely will lose anyways, or not having as beautiful colors.
Also considering that mb asceticism or significant restriction when you're in an environment surrounded by different foods is not necessarily good for your mind or body either. One can psychologically be gluttonous about (by overdoing) asceticism, ironically. It ends up becoming a reliance or crutch, which is inflexible and thus unsustainable if your environment and resources change drastically.
People want control also. It's the reason people develop eating disorders as a response to stressful situations. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me to condition your body to reject so many things, like vomiting after eating a tiny piece of meat. That objectively sounds like a definite weakness to me.
Oh yeah and I had a cousin (SEE) have a bunch of her hair fall out after hitting the 2 year mark of veganism. And it seems like every single vegan I've seen has a pallid complexion with papery-looking skin, and teeth and eye whites that look like glass, which gets worse and worse over time.
Keep in mind I've grown up with Chinese herbal medicine (directly connected to Ayurvedic medicine) and seeing TCM doctors all my life-- this is the culture from where the "China Study" stuff came from which made a lot of low fat vegetarian stuff take off decades ago-- also where, historically, doctors got PAID to keep people healthy and stopped getting paid if they got sick, and I've never seen veganism be recommended by them. Even vegetarianism needs to be approached with caution, and is often discouraged.
I'm not really interested in what some idealistic hipsters with fugly skin have to say. I can take one look and tell it doesn't trump 4000+ years of human health knowledge.
Not to say of course eating more vegetables is not a very good thing, but very intensive restriction for an extended period of time .... that to me is someone just wanting to be excessive in an edgelord ascetic way, because they have nothing more important or interesting to do with their lives.
I also have a white European IEI aunt who is vegetarian+seafood, and has tried to care about her health a lot, and she went out too much without enough sunscreen and got melanoma (skin cancer). So if you focus too much on tiny unimportant shit, you will often overlook more important health shit. Times like this I'm glad I'm beta ST. Health is wealth bitches.
Last edited by sbbds; 09-26-2019 at 04:06 AM.
How sad is to speak without knowing...
Some info someone might be interested in
“[M]ammalian carnivores and omnivores share a number of physical attributes that make them well suited for killing and tearing apart their prey. They have a wide mouth opening, relative to head size; a simple jaw joint that operates as a stable hinge for effective slicing but which is ill-suited to side-to-side motion; and dagger-like teeth spaced apart to avoid trapping stringy debris. They also have sharp claws. (2) The mammalian carnivores and omnivores additionally have huge stomachs that enable gorging, an important capacity in animals who tend to average only about one kill per week. (3) These animals also have a very low gastric pH (which means their stomachs are very acidic), enabling the breakdown of highly concentrated protein as well as the killing of dangerous bacteria that typically colonize decaying flesh. (4)…Each of these traits enables the lion or bear to use her body to kill prey. Herbivorous animals, by contrast, have fleshy lips, a small mouth opening, a thick and muscular tongue, and a far less stable, mobile jaw joint that facilitates chewing, crushing, and grinding. Herbivores also generally lack sharp claws. (14) These qualities are well-adapted to the eating of plants, which provide nutrients when their cell walls are broken, a process that requires crushing food with side-to-side motion rather than simply swallowing it in large chunks the way that a carnivore or omnivore swallows flesh.
Herbivores have digestive systems in which the stomach is not nearly as spacious as the carnivore’s or omnivore’s, a feature that is suitable for the more regular eating of smaller portions permitted with a diet of plants (which stay in place and are therefore much easier to chase down), rather than the sporadic gorging of a predator on his prey. (15) The herbivore’s stomach also has a higher pH (which means that it is less acidic) than the carnivore’s or omnivore’s, perhaps in part because plants ordinarily do not carry the dangerous bacteria associated with rotting flesh. The small intestines of herbivores are quite long and permit the time-consuming and complex breakdown of the carbohydrates present in plants. In virtually every respect, the human anatomy resembles that of herbivorous animals (such as the gorilla and the elephant) more than that of carnivorous and omnivorous species. (16) Our mouths’ openings are small; our teeth are not extremely sharp (even our “canines”); and our lips and tongues are muscular. Our jaws are not very stable (and would therefore be easy to dislocate in a battle with prey), but they are quite mobile and allow the side-to-side motion that facilitates the crushing and grinding of plants.
Our stomachs are only moderately acidic, a fact that becomes salient around Thanksgiving, when even slightly undercooked dinners of turkey flesh result in many cases of food poisoning from the illness-causing bacteria that easily survive in our stomachs. (17) Like herbivores and unlike carnivores and omnivores as well, we have long small intestines, enabling the digestion of complex carbohydrates, a process that begins in our mouths, where we, like the committed herbivores, have carbohydrate-digesting enzymes as well. (18)
Does any of this mean that people are incapable of eating and digesting animal products? Of course not. With weapons to kill animals, we do not need dagger teeth, and with fire to cook flesh, we can usually avoid the pitfalls of a stomach that is ill-equipped to kill the pathogens that populate raw flesh.
Despite our flexibility in accommodating animal-based foods, however, it nonetheless remains clear that we are anatomically well suited to plant-based eating…[A]nimal-based foods are unnecessary for us, and they carry significant costs and risks. While it is beneficial to have complex plant carbohydrates slowly make their way through our very lengthy small intestines, the same cannot be said for having meat rotting in our intestines for extended periods of time. (19)
However much people may enjoy eating animal products, then, nature does not unambiguously commit us to, or reward us with good health for, consuming them.
Last edited by mclane; 09-26-2019 at 10:57 PM.
I wanted to mention (at the expense of sounding like a hypocrite) that I'm not a vegan. Being a vegan right now is not a good idea. You think I want to get sick? Call me up when everything is natural/organic.
I made this today. It would be completely vegan if not for the fact that I added bacon.
As some info, in India 30% of the population (which is a bunch of millions) is vegetarian. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vege...ism_by_country
Last edited by Retiree; 10-14-2019 at 10:27 PM.
I had an outdated view to human consumption of beans and production of biological gas in my mind.
Btw. I'm not a vagan either. I'm able to live without eating meat, but it's hard for me to live without milk, cheese, honey or eggs.
And I'm convinced that more people would be vegetarians if the had to kill animals for themselves... but if somebodys life depends on it everybody would kill an animal for food supply.
I've been following a plant based diet for a couple of years now. I mostly follow the nutrition advice of Dr. Greger(ILE).
Lilykoi Hawaii also makes videos I really enjoy watching. After having followed her for a couple years, I have some suspicions of what her type might be, but nothing for certain.
I got 6 free 5 ml tubes of Williamsburg paints from asking for alternatives to ivory black while I was vegan at least, and they don't mind because they know I'll buy some more anyways.
Dr. Greger seems like a gamma NT imo. (I'm suspecting LIE, but I don't know much about his person)
I actually suspected she was ESI-Se, but I could see where you'd get LSI. She has always come across to me as a bit strict and austere, but I guess both LSI and ESI can be that way, particularly ESI-se. I really appreciate her knowledge of nutrition and health, and she can be quite funny, but she also seems pretty uptight, imo.
Her face is lean and hungry, and ESI faces tend to be more rounded, more florid. Also, her body is in top shape from being taken care of. I think ESI bodies tend to be a bit more rounded, a bit softer, on average. Her face is also logical, rather than ethical.
Humans also lost the majority of their canine teeth... The most likely theory is not that they've turned vegetarian or carnivores, but they stopped threatening each other with their teeth. When animals try to threaten each other, they show their teeth, especially their canines, including both the chimpanzees and bonobos. But humans instead smile to show that they have nothing to harm others.
Among anthropoid primates, it is well known that the canine teeth of males are up to four times as long as those of females. The researchers compared the canine teeth of male and female primates.
“If the male’s canines are stronger than the female’s canines that would imply there is sexual selection for strength and that the tooth is actually used as a weapon,” Plavcan said. “Female’s canines are short, and shorter, stubbier objects are harder to break. So, if the long, thin male canines are as strong or stronger than those of the female, that would also suggest they are capable of being used for fighting.”
Humans are capable of both making war and making peace.
When different chimpanzee tribes get together, they usually end up in bloody warfare. But when bonobos get together, they usually get along. But that would be led by the female bonobos. The male bonobos would be making a ruckus just like chimpanzees usually do, but the females tend to just ignore them and go on their own merry way. After a while, they get along.
Similar things happen in humans. When two different countries aren't getting along, usually it's the males who are jingoistic, xenophobic nationalists who cry for war and aggression. But usually females are more interested in getting along with their neighbors and doing cultural exchange.
So humans came up with many creative ways to get along, because getting along is more beneficial than making war. They may smile at each other, or they may open their arms to show that they have nothing to harm them.