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Thread: The enneagram trifix theory is missing a center: the soul center

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    Default The enneagram trifix theory is missing a center: the soul center

    Heart, head, gut... and soul (missing from the theory -- which is rare since the enneagram is a very spiritual-themed thing or at least it was conceived as such). Also, each fix has a separate instinctual stacking. An example of a quatrifix somebody could have is :

    8w9 sp/so - 2w3 so/sx - 6w7 sp/sx - 9w1 sx/so


    The soul fix can be any enneagram type independently. (I mean; it can be from any center, but it cannot repeat an already existing fix).

    And each fix has a Socionics type.

    -
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    This is your lesson today kiddos

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    Maybe you could take it further and say all your wings could act as a secondary manifestation of tritype at certain points.

    ex. 7w6 3w4 9w8 = 739 —> 648
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 3w4 9w8

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    Boo. It's based on Gurdjieff's centers of intelligence and an old Sufi glyph. How do you propose modifying it without destroying it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Boo. It's based on Gurdjieff's centers of intelligence and an old Sufi glyph. How do you propose modifying it without destroying it?
    I'm not saying it's incorrect, I'm saying it's incomplete. The trifix was discovered much later by somebody; I've now discovered that it was missing the soul, that's it. If the trifix is an imaginary triangle linking three of the types of the enneagram, adding the soul it is actually a pyramid with the soul at the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vice View Post
    Maybe you could take it further and say all your wings could act as a secondary manifestation of tritype at certain points.

    ex. 7w6 3w4 9w8 = 739 —> 648
    Well, there is the subwing theory. Like for example 8w9 could have one of two possible subwings and that would add a different flavor to the type. i.e. 8w9sw9w1 or 8w9sw7w8 (it jumps one type either backwards or forward). Dunno if a secondary trifix can be done with these subwings. Haven't observed it.

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    yeah we need more centers, seeing as we all got personality disorders

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    Personality disorders appear at low levels of health on each type. Some types are more likely to develop certain disorders (i.e. E8 - antisocial, E3 - narcissitic, E9 dissociative). You have a point that having more fixes can muddle the issue even more if these disorders are present.

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    imo heart,head,gut are spiritual enough already as the practice of enneagram aims at advancement which is ultimately spiritual, same as all systems that attract people asking ''who am i''
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

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    The soul definitely isn't missing from enneagram theory. You just haven't read far enough past fixes to find it yet. Many of the enneagram teachers have been teaching beyond the basic theory for a very long time. Others not so much.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Personality disorders appear at low levels of health on each type. Some types are more likely to develop certain disorders (i.e. E8 - antisocial, E3 - narcissitic, E9 dissociative). You have a point that having more fixes can muddle the issue even more if these disorders are present.
    We dont have fixes, we already have the arrows

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    The directions of integration/disintegration could account for the mixed traits (from other types) that people seem to have, but what about other traits? How do you explain for example an E4 that seems an 8? You could argue that this 4 maybe is Sx first. But some Sx first E4 might seem more 8 than another (by a noticeable measure). Trifix helps explain these things.

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    The soul has no ego, as such it has no "personality type." There is no soul center; to suggest there is, is to completely misunderstand the Enneagram. The entirety of the Enneagram symbolizes the soul's journey in life. It is definitely not equal to the heart, mind, or body, nor is it quantifiable by any means. By definition, the soul is beyond this material world.

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    The instinct stacking changing per type in the trifix is something I can only see possibly working if it changes progressively according to the original "core" stacking. Your example has two different E types for Sp, along with a different one backing up the first instinct. It is too disconnected, too random, and it doesn't work with how the interplay of type and instinct is classically understood.

    For example, So/Sp 358 becomes So/Sp 3, Sp/Sx 5, Sx/So 8.

    And I am still quite skeptical about this idea of changing instinct stacks to begin with. There isn't a reason for this to be the case as far as I can tell, but if it does happen / exist, it must be demonstrated thoroughly.

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    Connecting the Enneagram to Socionics is an ambitious attempt, but your thread on it is not at all convincing. You talk about Socionics subtypes, and that's pretty much it. Entirely unrelated to the Enneagram as far as I can tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    The soul has no ego, as such it has no "personality type."...By definition, the soul is beyond this material world.
    Whence did you learn this, since you talk so authoritatively?
    As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Whence did you learn this, since you talk so authoritatively?
    ((The soul has no ego, as such it has no "personality type."))
    I learned from many different sources. Many Enneagram authors emphasize the difference between personality (ego) and the Self (capital S) beyond ego, stating that one's personality type is about ego identification, not about soul. The soul occupies the Virtue of Essence. Each Enneagram type has a Virtue, and it is ego that leads us astray via the Passions of the types. This distinction is elemental to the study of the Enneagram.

    ((By definition, the soul is beyond this material world.))
    The concept of the soul being beyond the material world is a rather universally accepted view on it. Doesn't mean that it is real, that's for you and each person to decide for themselves. There is the use of the world as synonymous for "person," but this interpretation has been falling out of fashion the last few decades (I blame the New Age movement). So I said that the soul is beyond this material world with some confidence, yes. I said it to contrast this with the 'worldly' nature of the body, the mind, and the heart, and to show that this is why "soul" shouldn't be a center.

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    I would argue that my soul has my ego along with my body, my life, and many other matched things because I'm not a Cartesian dualist, but that still invalidates needing to give it a type. (And yes, "soul" still makes sense without essence dualism since identity doesn't depend on anything quantifiable, yet non-essentialism comes off as a reductio ad absurdum to me. I could show how this works with infinite sets if anyone'd like, basically a logical proof.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    The soul has no ego, as such it has no "personality type." There is no soul center; to suggest there is, is to completely misunderstand the Enneagram. The entirety of the Enneagram symbolizes the soul's journey in life. It is definitely not equal to the heart, mind, or body, nor is it quantifiable by any means.

    If those three elements are typeable (which are abstractions), why would the soul not be typeable?


    By definition, the soul is beyond this material world.

    It can still have a type, can't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    The instinct stacking changing per type in the trifix is something I can only see possibly working if it changes progressively according to the original "core" stacking. Your example has two different E types for Sp, along with a different one backing up the first instinct. It is too disconnected, too random, and it doesn't work with how the interplay of type and instinct is classically understood.


    For example, So/Sp 358 becomes So/Sp 3, Sp/Sx 5, Sx/So 8.


    And I am still quite skeptical about this idea of changing instinct stacks to begin with. There isn't a reason for this to be the case as far as I can tell, but if it does happen / exist, it must be demonstrated
    thoroughly.

    This is a too bottled premise. I don't believe everyone follows this patterns of the same flow in each of the fixes. I think I don't. But it's possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Connecting the Enneagram to Socionics is an ambitious attempt, but your thread on it is not at all convincing. You talk about Socionics subtypes, and that's pretty much it. Entirely unrelated to the Enneagram as far as I can tell.

    It is ambitious, and IMO it is correct. The premise at least is, I might not have pinned down all the specifics yet. I see it pretty clearly that if we have a heart, gut and head fixes, we must have a soul fix as well. I've attempted to type myself using these expansions that you reject so disdainfully, and I have been successful. I've also typed one other person using them.

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    And it matches socionics well, because it also has four elements that correspond to the four dimensions of a person. These are equivalent:

    Heart: Ethics
    Head: Logic
    Gut: Sensing
    Intuition: Soul

    There are always 4 elements, that is the pattern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    And it matches socionics well, because it also has four elements that correspond to the four dimensions of a person. These are equivalent:

    Heart: Ethics
    Head: Logic
    Gut: Sensing
    Intuition: Soul

    There are always 4 elements, that is the pattern.
    Carl Jung describes four psychological functions that are capable of becoming applicable psychically, but to differing degrees in individuals:[131]


    Sensation – all perceptions by means of the sense organs
    Intuition – perception by way of the unconscious, or perception of unconscious events
    Thinking (in socionics, Logic) – judgement of information based on reason
    Feeling (in socionics, Ethics) – judgement of information based on sentiment


    In addition to these four types, Jung defines a polarity between introverted and extraverted personalities. This distinction is based on how people invest energy: either into the inner, subjective, psychical world (usually called Seele, soul, by Jung), or toward their outer, objective, physical world (including one's body).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics#History
    The "soul" is pretty much missing in socionics theory. The above is the closest you get to it.. Numerology on the other hand has the soul's urge. Not to be confused with the soul though.

    What does soul mean to you?

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    The "soul" is pretty much missing in socionics theory. The above is the closest you get to it.. Numerology on the other hand has the soul's urge. Not to be confused with the soul though.

    What does soul mean to you?
    The soul is a mixture between the mind (note, the mind, not the brain. The mind is the software the brain is the hardware) and an ethereal out-of-body component.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    The instinct stacking changing per type in the trifix is something I can only see possibly working if it changes progressively according to the original "core" stacking. Your example has two different E types for Sp, along with a different one backing up the first instinct. It is too disconnected, too random, and it doesn't work with how the interplay of type and instinct is classically understood.

    For example, So/Sp 358 becomes So/Sp 3, Sp/Sx 5, Sx/So 8.

    And I am still quite skeptical about this idea of changing instinct stacks to begin with. There isn't a reason for this to be the case as far as I can tell, but if it does happen / exist, it must be demonstrated thoroughly.
    I tried something similar a few years ago when I was still exploring tritype. I had myself as 4 sx 5 sp 9 so, for a little while, but ultimately let all that go (including tritypes) a year or so ago, maybe longer. It made some sense at the time. I just realized I didn't need to complicate and dilute it so much (for myself) to get what I needed from enneagram. I went back to core theory and started over. Exploring it was still helpful for what I needed at the time. I am assuming Mclane needs whatever he is doing now for himself.

    I was going to go into ego fixations and the soul being beyond ego when I responded the first time. I just didn't have the energy yesterday. Glad I didn't. The way you said it was concise and clear.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    The soul is a mixture between the mind (note, the mind, not the brain. The mind is the software the brain is the hardware) and an ethereal out-of-body component.
    Thanks for answering.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    ^ she mad

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    Don't think we really need more mystical fluff being injected into personality theories.

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    The soul is about how one truly & deeply empathically connects with others. It has nothing to do with personal egoic identity which is naturally fragmented like a mirror that has been broken.

    Spiritually speaking , only Oneness is true. Things like gay/straight, man/women, entj/infp, trump/hillary - even good and evil etc DO NOT EXIST. Only Christ consciousness exists, which is pure love without an opposite or something broken apart from it.

    The more you see through the deception of Ego and the more your soul grows- (which can only happen btw by riding things out and living your life and letting the ego dissolve naturally), one cannot fight the ego with the ego- as the ego is just a shyster, the better your soul gets but there is no 'type of soul.'

    So 'soul type' is the world's biggest oxymoron and paradox. It cannot exist. Practically speaking it would kinda be like being allowed to vote for trump and hillary at the same time, or physically be in two places at once. Or idk, being able to shoot fireballs out of your hands for real instead of in an IEI's fairytale fan fiction. You cannot do this corporeally or legally. There are 'rules.'

    I come from a long line of ancient gay demons known as Chad'goths - but I understand God's rules well very truly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    ^ she mad
    What makes you think that? I was just wondering what he meant when he said "soul" then he told me. I don't get mad if someone defines their soul a certain way that may be different than how I see it.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I swear I read something about a spiritual instinct ages ago. Like 9 sp/soul, basically. But now Google isn't bringing it to me. Somehow it was connected to aestrivex and his old forum, if that's any help.

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    Some info on Enneagram some of you may not have seen before (with links for further reading).

    "A brief exposition of Ichazo’s Theory of Trialectics will also follow. According to Ichazo, the Enneagons must be worked with Trialectical logic, not from a linear or dualistic perspective.

    Some attempts will also be made at showing similarities and differences between Ichazo’s ideas and those of G.I. Gurdjieff.

    The author of this article is in no way affiliated with the Arica School nor any Gurdjieff Work/Fourth Way organization, and all information here is derived from either existing written materials or internet sources (in some cases anonymous). A list of source material can be found at the end of this article. All interpretations of the source material are based on the personal understanding of this article’s author.

    ********

    According to Ichazo, the personality of a human being is made up of Nine Constituents which are co-dependent and interrelated.

    The Nine Constituents Of The Human Personality are given as follows:

    1. Materiality, or Elements
    2. Systems
    3. Mentations
    4. Senses Consciousness
    5. Mental Perceptions
    6. Domains
    7. Feelings or Discriminative Mind
    8. Willing Intention
    9. Access Base

    As stated above, this presentation will be primarily focused on the Systems and the Domains.

    THE SYSTEMS

    Ichazo asserts that Consciousness preceeds the body. But this is consciousness in the sense of a pure, eternal, permanent, unchanging consciousness, often referred to as Essence. However, when this consciousness manifests in the material world as a human being, it becomes part of the world of space, time, change and multiplicity, and takes the form of nine different physical systems.

    The Nine Systems are given as

    1. Sexual
    2. Skeletal
    3. Digestive
    4. Protective
    5. Circulatory
    6. Expression
    7. Coordination
    8. Central Nervous System
    9. Unity

    These nine physical systems then give rise to the Hypergnostic Systems. In the Arica school, the study of the Hypergnostic systems is considered key for gaining an understanding of one’s psyche and developing the “internal witness”, also called the “natural persona”.

    In Eastern traditions, the “inner witness” is usually established through years of meditation, learning to observe our inner processes while maintaining an aspect of ourselves that is neutral and non-attached. Only when our contact with this inner witness is stabilized can true “self-observation” be accomplished. Ichazo asserts that in his system, this process, which usually takes years, can be completed in days. He considers this “speeding up” of the process to be one of the main characteristics which distinguishes the Arica system from traditional esoteric paths.

    This permanent inner witness has a special kind of awareness that can know reality as it truly is. The development of the “natural persona” seems to correspond to Gurdjieff’s Man Number Four and Man number Five, i.e., the development of a person who has balanced their Centers and established a unified, permanent “I”.

    From this it can be seen that the Enneagram of Personality is derived from a system whose original aim was to help establish self-observation and self-knowledge through stabilizing contact with a higher aspect of ourselves which transcends the limitations of ordinary human faculties. This aspect is our Essential nature, and it is through this nature that one can experience one’s connection with the Absolute.

    The Nine Hypergnostic Systems consist of 3 Instincts, 4 Functions, and 2 Poles. They are listed as

    1. The Sexual Pole, which comes from the Sexual system.
    2. The Function of Space, which comes from the skeletal/muscular system
    3. The Conservation Instinct, from the digestive system.
    4. The Function of Time, from the protective system (skin/lymph system)
    5. The Relations Instinct, from the circulatory system
    6. The Function of Expression, from the expression system
    7. The Function of Coordination, from the coordination system
    8. The Adaptation instinct, from the central nervous system
    9. The Spiritual pole, from the unity system

    From the point of view of the study of the contemporary Enneagram, the most important of these are the Three Instincts. These Instincts produce the three fundamental centers of attention: Physical, Emotional and Intellectual. As Ichazo points out, these centers are in keeping with most traditional esoteric teachings, as well as with the teachings of Gurdjieff.

    According to Ichazo, the Instincts manifest in our consciousness as innate basic questions. These are non-verbal “felt” questions, which are actually the demands of our need for simple survival. These instinctual questions call our attention and cannot be eliminated or postponed because they are basic to our psyche, instructing us on how to live and survive.

    THE CONSERVATION INSTINCT

    According to Ichazo, The Conservation Instinct is the organism’s instinct to feed itself in order to preserve its life. It results from the needs of the alimentary tract, and its center is felt at the top of the abdominal cavity, in the solar plexus.

    The innate non-verbal question projected here is “How am I?” This question has to be answered constantly by the organism, instinctually establishing whether one feels hunger and tension, or satisfaction and relaxation.

    The need to eat means that one has to acquire food through work and involvement in a certain process.

    The Conservation Instinct is also known as the Self-preservation Instinct.

    The need to meet the demands of the Conservation Instinct produces a concentration of our attention on that area, which leads to the development of an artifical “ego” or “I” with which we become identified. This “ego” will have its own particular concerns, demands and strategies for success. Through experience, it learns how to get the food that is needed for survival.

    Because it learns from past experiences, Ichazo calls this “ego” the Historical Ego. Our sense of property, possession, and the accumulation of wealth are all related to this Ego because these contribute to a sense of being secure in our ability to meet the demands of the Conservation Instinct.

    The Historical Ego is further subdivided into a triad of egos: Ego-Vengeance, Ego-Indolence and Ego-Resentment. These correspond to points 8, 9, and 1, respectively, on the Enneagram symbol.

    As a natural development, the Conservation instinct will become infused with the “instinctual poison” of Greed. Greed, in turn, can be broken down into the three poisons at the root of the three “egos”: Avarice (ego-vengeance), Greed (ego-indolence), and Possessiveness (ego-resentment).

    When the Conservation instinct is consistently threatened during childhood, the entire self then centers its attention on the lack of a feeling of well-being in that area. This leads to the development of a fixation in one of the three points of this triad, producing 3 “types”: Over-Justice-maker (fixated in Ego-Vengeance), the Over-Nonconformist (fixated in Ego-Indolence), or the Over-Perfectionist (fixated in Ego-Resentment).

    Ichazo calls the 8,9,1 triad the Being Group.

    THE RELATION INSTINCT

    According to the Arica theory, the Relation Instinct is our instinct for associating with other people as a fundamental principle of survival. It develops from the needs of the circulatory system, which includes the heart, lungs, arteries, veins, and kidneys. Its felt center is in the thoracic cavity. Ichazo points out that people are related to their environment most directly and intimately though breathing, which is one reason why this system corresponds to our relationship with the community of which we are a part.

    According to Ichazo, our emotions result from our relations with other people. The instinctual innate question asked here is “Who am i with, friend or foe?” The answer will produce the primary emotions of like and dislike, and a strong focus of attention on this center develops.

    An artificial Ego or “I” then develops which is concerned with how we appear to others and how others appear to us. Ichazo calls this the Image Ego because it is always adopting a “persona”, playing a social role.

    The Image Ego is subdivided into three Egos: Ego-Flattery, Ego-Go, and Ego Melancholy. These correspond to points 2,3 and 4, respectively, on the Enneagram symbol.

    The poison which naturally develops in the Relations Instinct is Hate. This can be broken down according to the three corresponding egos of the triad, giving the three root poisons of Envy (Ego-flattery), Hate (Ego-go), and Jealousy (Ego-melancholy.)

    A sense of insecurity in the Relations Instinct during childhood leads to the formation of the three fixated “types” in this triad: Over-Independent (fixated in Ego-flattery), Over-Efficient (fixated in Ego-go), and Over-Reasoner (Ego-melancholy).

    Ichazo calls the 2,3,4 triad the Living Group.

    THE ADAPTATION INSTINCT

    According to Arica Theory, the Adaptation Instinct is the result of our basic need to constantly adapt ourselves to our natural and social environment in order to survive. This instinct is the product of the central nervous system and its felt center is in the cranial cavity. The instinctual innate question projected here is “Where am I?”

    According to Ichazo, the fundamental need to orient ourselves gives us direction on what to do and how to behave in order to succeed in our environment. This is the Intellectual Center, composed of thoughts and mind constructs. It is the basis of our sense of working and doing.

    In order to deal with the concerns of this center, an artifical Ego or “I” develops which has the know-how to survive, known in the Arica system as the Practical Ego.

    The Practical Ego is further subdivided into three Egos: Ego-Stinginess, Ego-Cowardice, and Ego-Planning, which correspond to points 5,6 and 7, respectively, on the Enneagram symbol.

    The Adaptation Instinct naturally develops into the poison of Deceit. Deceit is subdivided into the three root poisons of this triad: Confusion (Ego-stinginess), Deceit (Ego-Cowardice) and Mythomania (Ego-Planning).

    The resulting fixated “types” which develop from the Adaptation Instinct are given as the Over-Observer (fixated in Ego-Stinginess), Over-Adventurer (fixated in Ego-Cowardice) and Over-Idealist (fixated in Ego-Planning).

    Ichazo designates the 5,6,7 triad as the Doing Group.

    *********

    Ichazo seems to assert that each of these artificial “Egos” or false “I”‘s is present in everyone. People ordinarily cycle through all of these on a regular basis. However, one of these Egos becomes the primary fixation, the point from which we continually begin all our processes, giving the impression that this is our real “I”. But in reality, it is just an artificial Ego with which we have become primarily identified through early life circumstances.

    Furthermore, when we are in a disharmonious state– which is the habitual terrestrial condition of humanity in general — the three Egos of the three Centers begin to conflict with each other, leading to fragmentation, disorder and suffering.

    It should be noted that all of this is consistent with the teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff, where people in their habitual state are portrayed as operating with three Centers or “brains”– physical, emotional and intellectual– which are misused, undisciplined and in conflict with one another. Gurdjieff asserts that we have multiple “I”‘s with with we mistakenly identify ourselves, and that we cycle through all these on a regular basis. However, there is one aspect which comes to dominate our personality and this is called our “chief feature”. This leads to the formation of a “false personality”. Gurdjieff taught that “chief feature” arose from the Seven Deadly Sins, along with self-love and vanity.

    Apparently, Gurdjieff was working with a system of Personality Types, although the details are unclear. It seems to have involved blending the three primary types –physical, emotional and mental– into twelve “basic” types (symbolized by the astrological signs of the Zodiac). These were then divided into the 27 human types, which Gurdjieff says were known in ancient times. Finally, the 27 were further subdivided into 72 types.

    However, as far as the explanations of all these characteristics of our psychology, Ichazo is much more explicit and detailed than Gurdjieff.

    It is also important to remember that Ichazo postulates a Tri-fix, whereby each individual has a primary fixation for each Center. Of these three fixations, one is the predominant fixation, while the other two are secondary. For instance, 5 may be the main fixation, while 9 and 3 can be the secondary fixations.

    In this sense, Ichazo’s Tri-fix approach is consistent with the Sufi Enneagram system presented by Laleh Bakhtiar, which is based on the work of Nasr al-Din Tusi, a thirteenth century Islamic philosopher who expanded on the work of Aristotle. In the Sufi system Bakhtiar presents, each of the traditional Centers (physical, emotional, intellectual) has three imbalances, leading to 9 imbalances. A person usually suffers from one imbalance per Center. However, in the Sufi system, a person may actually be balanced in one or more Centers, creating a fourth option for each Center. Consequently, the Sufi Enneagram Bakhtiar presents describes 64 possible combinations.

    THE SEXUAL POLE AND THE SPIRITUAL POLE

    In addition to the Three Instincts, Arica Theory describes two Poles between which our whole life is supported. Both Poles are connected with survival and questions about our identity. Ichazo calls these the Sexual and Spiritual Poles.

    The Sexual Pole is the outcome of our instinct for procreating to ensure the survival of the species. Its felt center is in the pelvic region, where the primary sexual organs are located. The innate instinctual question asked here relates to our gender identity.

    The Sexual Pole develops the psychic poison of Lust, as well as a sense of Guilt.

    It should be noted that, while in the Gurdjieff system the Sexual Center is considered part of the “Belly center”, in Ichazo’s theory it is given a separate place of importance and explicity coupled with the Spiritual Pole.

    The Spiritual Pole is related to our sense of our identity as individuals. It is based on a need to perpetuate our survival as a certain identifiable, individual entity. The Spiritual Pole is centered in the brain.

    The Spiritual Pole develops the psychic poisons of Ignorance, Arrogance and Stupidity as well as a sense of Duality.

    Arica theory postulates a constant tension between the Sexual and Spiritual Poles, with the psyche of the human being fluctuating between the sense of one’s gender identity and one’s individual identity. This tension can only be alleviated by purifiying and clarifying the energy of these Poles.

    THE FOUR FUNCTIONS

    An in-depth study of the Hypergnostic Systems would also involve an analysis of the workings of the Four Functions mentioned earlier and how they interrelate with the Instincts and Poles. However, for the purposes of studying the relationship between the popular versions of the Enneagram of Personality and its basis in the Arica system, such an analysis is not entirely necessary.

    It may be interesting to note, however, that Gurdjieff included a “Moving Center” as part of the Belly Center. Ichazo does not describe a Moving Center, but does include a Function of Coordination and Kinsethetic Awareness which may be similar.
    Unveiling"


    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-arica-1/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-intro-2/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-intro-3/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-arica-4/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...-the-school-1/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...-the-school-2/

    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-studies/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    De rerum natura coeruleum's Avatar
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    Dumb. Spouting hot air in Latin does not an explanation make. There's no such thing as a trialectic either. The enneagram system was based on a dialectic and that's why it has two parts.



    3/6/9 are doomed to run around in circles and the other three iterations have something close to a trialectic split by a dialectic which would be interesting if they weren't parallel figures. Whoever designed this was dumb.
    Last edited by coeruleum; 09-12-2019 at 07:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Dumb. Spouting hot air in Latin does not an explanation make. There's no such thing as a trialectic either. The enneagram system was based on a dialectic and that's why it has two parts.



    3/6/9 are doomed to run around in circles and the other three iterations have something close to a trialectic split by a dialectic which would be interesting if they weren't parallel figures. Whoever designed this was dumb.
    You'll have to take that up with Ichazo!

    Detailed description of the evolution from formal logic, to dialectics, to trialectics, as developed by Oscar Ichazo.


    by Tomislav Budak (1995):


    "Trialectics is a synthesis of basically the same systems of thought that appeared in the 20th century under different names, such as "ecology of mind", "unitary thought", "general systems thinking", "cybernetics" or "synergetics". Trialectics is the third essential current of the logical thinking that evolved from Aristotle's formal logic and Hegel's dialectics. Therefore, we are first going to explore the basic axioms of formal logic and dialectics and then compare them with trialectics.


    https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Trialectics

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    If something goes beyond the official texts given by the "respected authors", it does not automatically make it untrue. It needs evaluation like everything else. The way I see it, believing the trifix theory and not considering the possibility that something could be missing, is unreasonable.

    Ftr, my soul is 1w2 and there is no way that I can fit that aspect of my personality if it's not adding the soul fix to my tritype. I could be an integrated 4, or it could be my gut fix, but there are problems with this. First of all, there's too much E1w2 for it to simply be an integration, and secondly I'm pretty sure my gut fix is 8w9. The other person I've tentatively typed using this system has a similar problem.

    The only issue I see with this new spin is it's possible applicability. If it's hard enough already to get the tritype right (more so including subwings), with this it's even more complicated. You'd have to be a very good typer and know very well the person.

    As a possible clue; if there is some sort of "overlay" type that permeates your personality, and you cannot fit it anywhere convincingly, it is probably your soul type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    What makes you think that? I was just wondering what he meant when he said "soul" then he told me. I don't get mad if someone defines their soul a certain way that may be different than how I see it.
    You sure hun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    You sure hun?
    Of course, hun.

    You seem to want me to be mad a lot. lol I will let you know when I am so you don't miss it.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    There was a test that tested each enneagram type individually and looking at people's results there was always a type that got a high score and you couldn't really fit it anywhere. Some people were saying things like:"no.. it must be that I have a strong wing in my head fix" etc. That makes no sense. It is a much more probable explanation that there's a fix that's missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Of course, hun.

    You seem to want me to be mad a lot. lol I will let you know when I am so you don't miss it.
    Y u heff to be

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    @Aylen what's your gut type, 9? If it's not, your soul type probably is 9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    @Aylen what's your gut type, 9? If it's not, your soul type probably is 9.
    She is 9 lol but she thinks is a 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    She is 9 lol but she thinks is a 4
    I like to trust that a person's self-awareness is good enough for them to be able to type themselves correctly (which might not always be the case). In Aylen's case, I think it is probably more than sufficient. Iirc, she typed herself 458 trifix. Based on her interaction on the forum, I can agree with that as long as her soul fix is E9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    @Aylen what's your gut type, 9? If it's not, your soul type probably is 9.
    I don't use tritype anymore BUT my "soul urge" in numerology is 9 so sure why not. 9 is a good number. Maybe you intuitively picked up on my soul urge aka heart's desire number.

    From the numerology site I linked you:

    "Soul Urge 9
    You have a deep need to achieve a higher state of consciousness, teach others how to achieve theirs, and learn to give and receive.

    When you look deep into your core, you have an underlying and pressing need to engage in some sort of humanitarian service. Yours is a spiritual path and you’re here to love unconditionally, however that may manifest in your life. You’re often a hopeless romantic at heart and can set yourself up for disappointment when people don’t measure up to your ideals.

    The number 9 is the number of completion in Numerology. It’s the number of the old soul, of letting go, of releasing attachments, and of loss.

    You’re at your optimal when you’re tapping into your creativity, sensitivity, and selflessness. Beware that others may find that you’re ideas are a little on the cuckoo-side! This Soul Urge number is a powerful one demanding that you learn to transform and heal (both yourself and others) while letting go of the past freely and without bitterness.

    You may find yourself tripping over into the arena of resentment, of intolerance, or gullibility. You may have to deal with enmeshment with your family of origin throughout your life. Your task is to let go of family issues fully and completely. You often feel either resentment toward the family or feel overly responsible for them.

    You need to be aware that people respond much more favorably to you when you connect with them through being a compassionate active listener rather than a preacher, lecturer, or proselytizer. Understand that you can have an intimidating quality to you, despite your big heart. So be careful about how your frame your discussion so that people don’t feel as though you’re patronizing them.

    Some of your internal struggles might include being perceived as arrogant or unapproachable. Realize that everyone thinks you have it all (or have it all together) and so you find it difficult to ask for help or support. It’s not only okay to ask for help, it’s very healing for you.

    You’re truly connecting with your abilities to both give and receive (and usually the receiving part is much harder for you!). Know that your 9 Soul Urge is a profound journey that offers you multifaceted opportunities to touch the lives of others and heal some of your own deepest wounds."

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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