View Poll Results: Which subtype do you prefer from own type?

Voters
3. You may not vote on this poll
  • My own subtype

    1 33.33%
  • The opposite subtype

    2 66.67%
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Subtypes and Identity Relationships

  1. #1
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    67
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Subtypes and Identity Relationships

    A simple thread, but an important one nonetheless. I will give insight into why it is important below, but reading my explanation isnít necessary. All I want is for people to answer these simple questions: Which subtype from your own type do you like more and what is your own subtype? For example, if you are an IEI-Fe, do you prefer other IEI-Feís or IEI-Niís for romantic relationships?


    Why this is an important thread:

    If same subtypes in identity relationships are more compatible with themselves (i.e SLE-Se preferring other SLE-Se) than the opposite then this would show that intertype relationships with subtypes considered is reflexive. We already know intuitively it is symmetric. This means if it is reflexive then that we would just have to show transitivity to show that intertype relationships with subtypes considered is an equivalence relation (in mathematical terms). This would be a very useful property to be validated and it would be a big step in axiomatizing human interactions. Understanding the mathematics of human cognition would make it easier to program AIís to replicate or predict human interactions.

  2. #2
    soundofconfusion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    573
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    since you made a thread about dcnh subtypes, I can give you my perspective on these. I'm an LII with a creative subtype, my father is an LII with a normalising subtype, and my brother is an LII with a harmonising subtype. when I first read gulenko's article on DCNH I felt like it finally explained IR relations precisely. despite the fact that my father has many similarities with me, I couldn't get along with him during my childhood. we were constantly arguing, and I felt that he was too rigid in all of his perspectives, while I was too undisciplined in his eyes. after I moved out whefn I was around 17, the relationship with him improved by a lot, because we had a certain distance between each other. I have a subtype duality with my brother and I consider him my best friend. I can talk with him for hours without getting bored (which is very rare for me). another good friend of mine is an LII with a dominant subtype, so I observed the DCNH interactions in my family. I can't stress enough how important the subtypes are for succesful relationships. I personally don't see a reason to use the two subtype model

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,008
    Mentioned
    981 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    there is a lot important in people

    and there are no subtypes in Socionics
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,812
    Mentioned
    269 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm IEI-Ni. I prefer other IEI-Ni. IEI-Fe feels too emotionally manipulative.

  5. #5
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,026
    Mentioned
    703 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm LIE-Te and I prefer other LIE-Te's. LIE-Ni's seem too passive to me, too dreamy and in need of too much help for things that they can do for themselves.

  6. #6
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    67
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm... A common theme I have seen so far in this thread and in real life, is that there is significant mistrust for our opposite subtype. Mistrust for their values and as result, mistrust for their overall motives. You're constantly on your toes when you are around them. This is very interesting. I would have thought there would be a mirage factor in here due to the compatibility of strengths. For example a LIE-Te has boosted Te and Se (I won't use charges because an argument with charges is the same argument) just like an ESI-Se while LIE-Ni has boosted Ni and Fi just like an ESI-Fi. However, this fails to take into consideration of how these types value functions.

    Unlike the ESI-Se, though the LIE-Te strengthens its Se, the LIE-Te decreases its value. LIE-Te involves themselves in many competitive activities which might indicate valuation of Se. Most of this can be attributed to Te (Though boosting *strength* does help). Why? If LIE-Te valued Se more than the LIE-Ni, then duality with an ESI-Fi wouldn't make much sense since ESI-Fi's push valuations off their Se to boost their Fi. Therefore for the sake of one of the biggest axioms in socionics to continue to hold, LIE-Te push valuation off their Se despite gaining strength in the function. Getting back to our original argument, since LIE-Te push valuation off Se, this would seem strange to the LIE-Ni who wants their ideal partner to value this function very much.

    We can make a similar argument to show that LIE-Ni value Fi less than the LIE-Te and again the LIE-Te would definitely not like how the values of the LIE-Ni are shifted off their treasured suggestive function. As a result, a LIE-Te and a LIE-Ni would see each other with eyes of estrangement.

    Anyways, our results so far are interesting so far. Keep it up.Thanks for the comments.

  7. #7
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,026
    Mentioned
    703 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post
    Hmm... A common theme I have seen so far in this thread and in real life, is that there is significant mistrust for our opposite subtype. Mistrust for their values and as result, mistrust for their overall motives. You're constantly on your toes when you are around them. This is very interesting. I would have thought there would be a mirage factor in here due to the compatibility of strengths. For example a LIE-Te has boosted Te and Se (I won't use charges because an argument with charges is the same argument) just like an ESI-Se while LIE-Ni has boosted Ni and Fi just like an ESI-Fi. However, this fails to take into consideration of how these types value functions.

    Unlike the ESI-Se, though the LIE-Te strengthens its Se, the LIE-Te decreases its value. LIE-Te involves themselves in many competitive activities which might indicate valuation of Se. Most of this can be attributed to Te (Though boosting *strength* does help). Why? If LIE-Te valued Se more than the LIE-Ni, then duality with an ESI-Fi wouldn't make much sense since ESI-Fi's push valuations off their Se to boost their Fi. Therefore for the sake of one of the biggest axioms in socionics to continue to hold, LIE-Te push valuation off their Se despite gaining strength in the function. Getting back to our original argument, since LIE-Te push valuation off Se, this would seem strange to the LIE-Ni who wants their ideal partner to value this function very much.

    We can make a similar argument to show that LIE-Ni value Fi less than the LIE-Te and again the LIE-Te would definitely not like how the values of the LIE-Ni are shifted off their treasured suggestive function. As a result, a LIE-Te and a LIE-Ni would see each other with eyes of estrangement.

    Anyways, our results so far are interesting so far. Keep it up.Thanks for the comments.
    I think that @Rebelondeck stated it best when he said that people with opposite values (LIE-Te and ESI-Fi) don't step on each other's toes, and this might outweigh the attraction that they have for people who have their own enhanced values. Similars attract, but then they try to assert themselves in similar areas and this can cause some clashes.

    For example, I (an LIE-Te) find ESI-Se's to be physically beautiful and sexually attractive attractive attractive, while I find most ESI-Fi's to be calm, retreating, practical, non-obtrusive, mentally flexible (yeah, I actually said that), and thoughtful. If I could actually GET an ESI-Se, I'd probably run with that and be happy, but ESI-Fi's seem to be more deeply attracted to me, although they are less obvious about it.

    I have a great ILI-Te friend, and he's married to an ESI-Se. They get along pretty well for an average married couple, but I think they also have some problems. She wants more and more varied sex than he's willing to provide, and while they are Activity partners, they don't seem to do that many things together. They actually like it when I visit them, because the ILI-Te has someone logical who is also up for doing stuff, and the ESI-Se has someone around (me) who actually does physical stuff like she does. (I clean the kitchen and do the dishes, which she appreciates because the ILI guy doesn't because he spends a lot of time in his imagination, rather than the house.
    I think they have a Very Good marriage, but not an Optimal marriage.

    If the ILI-Te were married to an SEE-Fi, I think she'd have a better ability to affect him in a positive way, and vice-versa. But honestly, if you add in the very important compatibility factors of similar intelligence, similar social backgrounds, and similar world-views (all of which they have), they are doing pretty well. If you wait for perfection, you are going to be alone for a long, long time.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-15-2019 at 05:31 AM.

  8. #8
    Uncle Ave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    1,588
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't really have a preference, I guess. Most LIEs I know irl are Te subtypes, and we get along well usually. I know a few Ni subtypes and we get along well too. Both of the Ni subtypes I can think of are female (myself not included), whereas all of the Te subtypes are male, except for one.

    I haven't noticed a preference in my relations with them. The Te subtypes are more formal, serious, and level headed. The Ni subtypes are more informal, fun-loving and seem to understand people in a more intuitive way, they appear less robotic than the Te subtypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm LIE-Te and I prefer other LIE-Te's. LIE-Ni's seem too passive to me, too dreamy and in need of too much help for things that they can do for themselves.
    I think that's probably true of me, it sometims annoys people how I ask for help regarding things I could probably do myself. It almost seems like it is due to enhanced Fe, like if I can communicate that I need help with something why not do so? I don't do it to make people feel obliged to help me, though I noticed they do feel obliged anyways, so I try not to communicate this as much as I used to .


  9. #9
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    67
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think that @Rebelondeck stated it best when he said that people with opposite values (LIE-Te and ESI-Fi) don't step on each other's toes, and this might outweigh the attraction that they have for people who have their own enhanced values. Similars attract, but then they try to assert themselves in similar areas and this can cause some clashes.

    For example, I (an LIE-Te) find ESI-Se's to be physically beautiful and sexually attractive attractive attractive, while I find most ESI-Fi's to be calm, retreating, practical, non-obtrusive, mentally flexible (yeah, I actually said that), and thoughtful. If I could actually GET an ESI-Se, I'd probably run with that and be happy, but ESI-Fi's seem to be more deeply attracted to me, although they are less obvious about it.

    I have a great ILI-Te friend, and he's married to an ESI-Se. They get along pretty well for an average married couple, but I think they also have some problems. She wants more and more varied sex than he's willing to provide, and while they are Activity partners, they don't seem to do that many things together. They actually like it when I visit them, because the ILI-Te has someone logical who is also up for doing stuff, and the ESI-Se has someone around (me) who actually does physical stuff like she does. (I clean the kitchen and do the dishes, which she appreciates because the ILI guy doesn't because he spends a lot of time in his imagination, rather than the house.
    I think they have a Very Good marriage, but not an Optimal marriage.

    If the ILI-Te were married to an SEE-Fi, I think she'd have a better ability to affect him in a positive way, and vice-versa. But honestly, if you add in the very important compatibility factors of similar intelligence, similar social backgrounds, and similar world-views (all of which they have), they are doing pretty well. If you wait for perfection, you are going to be alone for a long, long time.
    I don’t think I have mentioned these thoughts on this on the forum yet, so here it is:

    Just like there are dualizing functions (i.e Gamma Ni and Gamma Se), I think there would be activating functions (i.e Gamma Ni and Gamma Fi) as well. This would make sense as ILI’s (a Ni dominant type) are activated by ESI’s (a Fi dominant type). Sure ILI-Ni’s might be attracted to ESI-Se’s for their dualizing Se, but they would probably prefer a long-term relationship with an ESI-Fi as there is significant imbalance with functional strengths with an ESI-Se. The ILI-Ni is looking for stronger Se and ESI-Se’s are looking for much stronger Te. However, in terms of the activating functions between an ILI-Ni and an ESI-Fi, they are at compatible functional strengths.

    When it comes to duality relationships, a LIE-Te for instance might be attracted to ESI-Se’s on more occasions and vice versa because the LIE-Te’s Te immediately activates the ESI-Se’s Se and the ESI-Se’s Se immediately activates the LIE-Te’s Te. The same holds true for LIE-Te’s Se and ESI-Se’s Te. However, the better relationships for psychological comfort, unlike the activity relationships we are looking for dualizing functions in our dual partners. As a result, a LIE-Te would prefer an ESI-Fi long-term as opposed to an ESI-Se while an ESI-Se would prefer a LIE-Ni long-term as opposed to a LIE-Te.
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-15-2019 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Simple Correction

  10. #10
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,967
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I'm an LII with a creative subtype
    Man, every time you say your type I do a double-take. It somehow wiggled into my brain that you're IEE and I can't seem to shake it. Anyway, sorry for the derail everyone.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •