Type me before climate change destroys us all

[Olimpia]

The problem with "EIE 7" is the concept of Type 7 – it strongly contradicts with Ej temperament or any other temperament except for Ep, for that matter. The assertiveness, capriciousness etc of 7 only fits Ep properly. So even if you make a case for 4D Ne, you cannot take away the fact that EIE is Ej, with more stable energetic levels than p. And 7s are anything but "stable" (personality-wise), typically. And even if you argue that EIEs are unstable due to their "emotionality"/Fe, that still contradicts with 7 on some level, because 7s are not primarily driven by emotions, which cancels out Ethics lead (and once again, points at Perceiving lead).

If you believe in the validity of both Enneagram and Jungian typology, then you'd have to conclude that if "fresh meat" is predominately Type 7, that has to mean he must be an Ep type. If you conclude he is predominately an EIE, then you'd be pressed to type him as a 2.

Personally, I see way more evidence for 7 > 2, his drug escapades are rather typical of unhealthy Sexual 7 behaviour. (I still haven't seen any strong signs for Type 2.)
So SEE 7 with Sp blindspot (which can also work well with Si ignoring) makes the most sense for me atm.

Also, tying that into his disregard for future consequences. Sure, you can argue he is young and that's why he acts this way, but even so I find it quite untypical of an EIE to throw themselves in such poorly thought-out situations, nilly-willy. That contradicts my understanding of Ni ego, Ti valuing, and Ep vs Ej temperament. That kind of behaviour is rather typical of rebellious SEE > SLE and some xSI individuals with Se subtype. But that's just me and my take on it all.

[QueenTiger666]

The problem with "EIE 7" is the concept of Type 7 – it strongly contradicts with Ej temperament or any other temperament except for Ep, for that matter. The assertiveness, capriciousness etc of 7 only fits Ep properly. So even if you make a case for 4D Ne, you cannot take away the fact that EIE is Ej, with more stable energetic levels than p. And 7s are anything but "stable" (personality-wise), typically. And even if you argue that EIEs are unstable due to their "emotionality"/Fe, that still contradicts with 7 on some level, because 7s are not primarily driven by emotions, which cancels out Ethics lead (and once again, points at Perceiving lead).

If you believe in the validity of both Enneagram and Jungian typology, then you'd have to conclude that if "fresh meat" is predominately Type 7, that has to mean he must be an Ep type. If you conclude he is predominately an EIE, then you'd be pressed to type him as a 2.

Personally, I see way more evidence for 7 > 2, his drug escapades are rather typical of unhealthy Sexual 7 behaviour. (I still haven't seen any strong signs for Type 2.)
So SEE with Sp blindspot (which can also work well with Si ignoring) makes the most sense for me atm.

Also, tying that into his disregard for future consequences. Sure, you can argue he is young and that's why he acts this way, but even so I find it quite untypical of an EIE to throw themselves in such poorly thought-out situations, nilly-willy. That contradicts my understanding of Ni ego and Ep vs Ej temperament. But that's just me and my take on it.

I mean does type 2 even really fit with EIE and Fe-. Type 2, to me, seems very Fe+.
Also, the saying is "willy-nilly"

[Olimpia]

I mean does type 2 even really fit with EIE and Fe-. Type 2, to me, seems very Fe+.
Also, the saying is "willy-nilly"

Yeah Type 2 descriptions mostly describe ESEs, that's why. Most 2s are ESEs because there are more ESEs than EIEs, on average. (That's my interpretation of it at least.)

People use both + and - of their lead (and probably also demonstrative, aka the strongest functions). It can be situational, some EIEs might use +Fe more often around certain types that value it. I've seen myself using more -Ni around my SEE sis, for example. Though in my case it is also a bit more conscious to be fair.

You can argue for -Fe and 2 through the connection with Type 8.

And... oops I am not a native speaker so sometimes i slip up

[QueenTiger666]

Yeah Type 2 descriptions mostly describe ESEs, that's why. Most 2s are ESEs because there are more ESEs than EIEs, on average. (That's my interpretation of it at least.)

People use both + and - of their lead (and probably also demonstrative, aka the strongest functions). It can be situational, some EIEs might use +Fe more often around certain types that value it. I've seen myself using more -Ni around my SEE sis, for example. Though in my case it is also a bit more conscious to be fair.

You can argue for -Fe and 2 through the connection with Type 8.

And... oops I am not a native speaker so sometimes i slip up

If the correlation (Which still doesn't equal causation) is so strong and rigid, then that surely renders enneagram pointless. Why have 2 systems that just tell you the same thing?

[Olimpia]

If the correlation (Which still doesn't equal causation) is so strong and rigid, then that surely renders enneagram pointless. Why have 2 systems that just tell you the same thing?

What would convince you of causation?

I think we can agree that Enneagram and Jungian typology focus on different aspects in your psychology. Jungian is more about how the brain operates and Enneagram is more about your drives, motivations, psychological hindrances etc. Both of which are strongly connected with each other. For instance, introverts won't develop a 7-like pattern and psychological hindrances or occupations, because they both cancel each other out. It is like saying people can be "ambiverted". But sure, there are people who make cases for ambiversion. But then you fall out of the Jungian frame.

[QueenTiger666]

What would convince you of causation?

I think we can agree that Enneagram and Jungian typology focus on different aspects in your psychology. Jungian is more about how the brain operates and Enneagram is more about your drives, motivations, psychological hindrances etc. Both of which are strongly connected with each other. For instance, introverts won't develop a 7-like pattern and psychological hindrances or occupations, because they both cancel each other out. It is like saying people can be "ambiverted". But sure, there are people who make cases for ambiversion. But then you fall out of the Jungian frame.

To be convinced of causation I would need to see A) Statistics showing that everyone of a certain sociotype is a certain enneagram type and B) That it is due to their sociotype and not other factors.

I don't think falling out of the Jungian fram would necessarily be a bad thing though. If anything, we certainly don't use the original Jungian frame now - I don't see why people in this community seem to have such an aversion to break away from "muh original Jung"

[flames]

The problem with "EIE 7" is the concept of Type 7 – it strongly contradicts with Ej temperament or any other temperament except for Ep, for that matter. The assertiveness, capriciousness etc of 7 only fits Ep properly. So even if you make a case for 4D Ne, you cannot take away the fact that EIE is Ej, with more stable energetic levels than p. And 7s are anything but "stable" (personality-wise), typically. And even if you argue that EIEs are unstable due to their "emotionality"/Fe, that still contradicts with 7 on some level, because 7s are not primarily driven by emotions, which cancels out Ethics lead (and once again, points at Perceiving lead).

If you believe in the validity of both Enneagram and Jungian typology, then you'd have to conclude that if "fresh meat" is predominately Type 7, that has to mean he must be an Ep type. If you conclude he is predominately an EIE, then you'd be pressed to type him as a 2.

Personally, I see way more evidence for 7 > 2, his drug escapades are rather typical of unhealthy Sexual 7 behaviour. (I still haven't seen any strong signs for Type 2.)
So SEE 7 with Sp blindspot (which can also work well with Si ignoring) makes the most sense for me atm.

Also, tying that into his disregard for future consequences. Sure, you can argue he is young and that's why he acts this way, but even so I find it quite untypical of an EIE to throw themselves in such poorly thought-out situations, nilly-willy. That contradicts my understanding of Ni ego, Ti valuing, and Ep vs Ej temperament. That kind of behaviour is rather typical of rebellious SEE > SLE and some xSI individuals with Se subtype. But that's just me and my take on it all.

I actually have to agree that 7 is Ep temperament exclusive

so far im thinking SEE 7 is the best type for me

and thanks everyone for the interesting replies!!!!

I don’t want to sit down and reply to everything specifically cuz I’m so busy in the Real World but I did another line of meth like 15 minutes ago and I’m on a lovely lil rollercoaster