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Thread: Subtype Functional Strength Discussion

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    Default Subtype Functional Strength Discussion

    I made this thread to put an end to my contemplation of a certain issue. I have browsed the forum for the answer to this question and I have not been satisfied as of yet.

    The issue/question is: What is the effect of subtypes(leading vs creative function subtypes) on functional strength?

    Simplification of my train of thoughts:
    My thoughts are similar to that of the inert/contact system. So yes, I do think that subtypes do affect functional strength. For example, I think that being a leading function subtype/inert function subtype boosts your base/leading function, mobilizing function, POLR function, and ignoring function. My reason for thinking this way was the Jungian interpretation on functional strengths where the boosting of an introverted function boosts the corresponding extroverted function (i.e boosting introverted thinking boosts extroverted thinking) and vice versa. However, I thought about something which prevents me fully going with this inert/contact system as my going interpretation of subtypes. What if we took into consideration function/information element charges? Boosting +Ti would also boost -Te which would be in line with Jung's thoughts. So for example, the ESTp-Ti would have boosted +Ti/-Te and since they are boosting the -Te, they could be suppressing their +Te because they might approach all matters that require usage of extroverted thinking use -Te instead +Te. As a result they not only devalue +Te/-Ti, but also the suppress the strength of the function. So using these thoughts, it would mean the leading function subtype boosts the base function, mobilizing function, Demonstrative function, and Role function while being the creative function subtype boosts the creative function, suggestive function, ignoring function and POLR. I mean this would make sense considering the ILI-Te is known to be more "sociable" than the ILI-Ni (boosted -Fe/+Fi, POLR) and "tries to be knowledgeable in a variety of issues" (+Ne/-Ni, ignoring/observing) while ILI-Ni takes on more research and academia with "fundamental developments", good erudition, and known "tireless researcher" (development of logical axioms/fundamentals for a field is very -Ti/+Te, Demonstrative). ILI-Ni's are also very good at working at a constant pace leaving them with having a comfortable and convenient life (boosts +Si/-Se, Role) though they have hopes of a very prosperous life (boosted valuation of +Se/-Si, Suggestive) enhanced with their boosted +Ni/-Ne.

    Go ahead and share your thoughts. It would be much appreciated.

    P.S: Saying functional strength is not affected by subtypes is a valid answer opinion to elaborate on. However, I will ignore comments that say there is no such thing as subtypes (mainly because that should be the discussion of a separate thread). So naturally, elaborations that say that functional strength is not affected by subtypes because there is no such thing as subtypes will also be ignored.
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-04-2019 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Simple Corrections

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    I'm an LIE-Te, and I have reduced Ni and enhanced Se and probably reduced Fi.

    Your mileage may vary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm an LIE-Te, and I have reduced Ni and enhanced Se and probably reduced Fi.

    Your mileage may vary.
    Thanks for your post. What about your Ti and Ne or Si and Fe ? I remember you saying you have a finance related job. What parts of it do you succeed in, excluding the aspects that most LIE-Te would like (risk-taking, risk management, power dynamics, etc.)?

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    Awhile back I simplified my idea of subtypes, strength, + and - signs. First I have to decide if someone's base type is correct before even considering a subtype. The lead function will always be the strongest but not always the most visible depending on the type. I then determine subtype based on whether or not they resemble their "kindred" or their "look alike/business" type more. I can do this for every type now.

    Functional strength can be arbitrary when you consider a group of people who all have the same socionics type. So using your self type as an ILI-Te I would say you would have more in common with an SLI (no subtype). It is not uncommon for people to be in between ILI and SLI as a type.

    Using my self type IEI-Ni I have more in common with ILI than I do with with SEI. I know IEI-Fe who can relate and have more in common with a SEI than an ILI. So if you look at it that way you can see where some of the strengths may be.

    Using Adam's self type I would say he has more in common with an LSE his kindred and has been typed LSE by some forum members. This makes sense using my kindred and look alike/business simplification of subtypes. At least I think it does. His values often seem more delta than other self typed LIE (some appear to lean beta).

    I think it has something to do with the values of the adjacent quadra that you may hold in addition to your quadra values. Just some thoughts on the subtype thing.

    Everything else tends to over-complicate since I personally relate strongly to both Ni + and -. I am ok with a two subtype system ftr although I see the value of exploring dcnh which I did.

    Not all people even have a subtype which would land them right in the middle of their own quadra not leaning toward either adjacent quadra. All this makes me think subtype is based primarily on external factors such as upbringing, education, social experiences...

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Well, DCNH can arguably range up to 24 subtypes. Take your combo man.
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    Now as for DCNH, are we talking about the interpretation where this subtype only affects social dynamics or the interpretation that says it affects both social dynamics and functional strength (i.e Being a dominant subtype strengthens Te and Fe).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Awhile back I simplified my idea of subtypes, strength, + and - signs. First I have to decide if someone's base type is correct before even considering a subtype. The lead function will always be the strongest but not always the most visible depending on the type. I then determine subtype based on whether or not they resemble their "kindred" or their "look alike/business" type more. I can do this for every type now.

    Functional strength can be arbitrary when you consider a group of people who all have the same socionics type. So using your self type as an ILI-Te I would say you would have more in common with an SLI (no subtype). It is not uncommon for people to be in between ILI and SLI as a type.

    Using my self type IEI-Ni I have more in common with ILI than I do with with SEI. I know IEI-Fe who can relate and have more in common with a SEI than an ILI. So if you look at it that way you can see where some of the strengths may be.

    Using Adam's self type I would say he has more in common with an LSE his kindred and has been typed LSE by some forum members. This makes sense using my kindred and look alike/business simplification of subtypes. At least I think it does. His values often seem more delta than other self typed LIE (some appear to lean beta).

    I think it has something to do with the values of the adjacent quadra that you may hold in addition to your quadra values. Just some thoughts on the subtype thing.

    Everything else tends to over-complicate since I personally relate strongly to both Ni + and -. I am ok with a two subtype system ftr although I see the value of exploring dcnh which I did.

    Not all people even have a subtype which would land them right in the middle of their own quadra not leaning toward either adjacent quadra. All this makes me think subtype is based primarily on external factors such as upbringing, education, social experiences...
    I have noticed this phenomenon of the resemblance of types due to subtypes. I also somewhat agree with you on your conclusion that subytpes are based on external factors. I even think subtypes are subject to change (but very rarely happen, something of great significance would have to happen), but I wont dig into this any further (unless it proves to be relevant to the thread).

    Now as for the reason to this resemblance phenomenon, I think if you find a valid answer for its causality we may be onto something in terms of solving our initial question. The way I see it, there are two possible explanations.

    1. An ILI-Te and a SLI-Te may seem similar because they have boosted proficiency in their demonstrative function in conjunction with their suggestive function. For example, since the SLI-Te have boosted +Ti/-Te (logic of risk) and boosted -Ne/+Ni (strategy and pragmatic forecasting) they may be seen as good risk managers which is typically a trait seen in ILI's, but since they are valuing +Te/-Ti over +Ti/-Te they don't get involved in high risk activities. The same sort of logic would apply for an ILI-Ni and IEI-Ni with their ignoring/observing function.
    2. An ILI-Te and a SLI-Te may seem similar only because of the boosted suggestive function and the fact their two Ip types with emphasis on their creative Te function. So for example, the ILI-Te seems good at handling practical matters in a creative fashion just like the SLI-Te, but in actuality, their dealing with these matters is slightly different due to the charge difference of their Te functions. Same thing goes for leading function subtypes and their base function (i.e ILI-Ni and IEI-Ni).

    Number 2 doesn't solve our initial question, but number 1 does at least help us tremendously. However, which explanation is more valid?
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-08-2019 at 06:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post
    Now as for DCNH, are we talking about the interpretation where this subtype only affects social dynamics or the interpretation that says it affects both social dynamics and functional strength (i.e Being a dominant subtype strengthens Te and Fe).
    Bare in mind that Gulenko's base and creative sub descriptions translates as terminal (D/N) and initial (C/H). It should also reflect type's overall focus like EIE H type is close to playwright while EIE D is close to politician and in social dominance similarly functioning EIE's H should be in the bottom.
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    Let’s bring our attention to mclane’s thread about function descriptions and his latest edit because no one has yet to provide an analysis on the 2 explanations given earlier. Here is the thread: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...n-of-functions

    In particular, let’s look at the -Te which mclane states to be correlated with “leading logic.” Why would this be a big breakthrough ***if it is true***?This is because ILE-Ti are known to be better leaders on average than ILE-Ne’s (sometimes they are too whimsical with their responsibilities because they take on too many interests, +Ne/-Ni). This could be a good sign that being an ILE-Ti means boosted -Te which means boosted -Te/+Ti (referring to -Te is almost technically the same thing as referring to -Te/+Ti or +Ti/-Te)*. Another thing to note is that boosted -Te/+Ti is another way to say suppressed -Fi/+Fe (the dualizing function of -Te/+Ti). It would be helpful if @mclane comes and elaborates on exactly what “leading logic” is.

    My opinion: I think mclane is onto something here. I believe @Adam Strange has talked about LIE-Te’s having a lot of good leadership qualities while LIE-Ni having less, but at the same time still being a good leader (LIE-Te and LIE-Ni both have good -Te). I have also made this observation, but having empirical validation is highly welcomed. This is a good sign that being a leader (or rather, having the type of reasoning skills needed to lead) seems to be related to having strong -Te/+Ti. This also comes up with LSI-Ti who also have good -Te (4D +Ti/-Te) being very good at climbing hierarchies. This is due to technical skills (The type of reasoning skills needed to climb the ladder) rather than the brute force methods implemented by types such as the SLE-Se.

    An example of a LIE-Ni with good leadership qualities, but still having less skills than a healthy LIE-Te: Elon Musk

    *: the presence of -Te means the presence of +Ti. I believe Krig the viking (might link his thread in an edit) talked about their relationship along with the relationships of other +/- information elements.
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-08-2019 at 06:39 AM.

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    Well, both -Te I think it's "leading logic" because it's the logic used to cause an effect. Like a chain of occurrences. "Do this, then this, then this" is a -Te statement. Both LIE subtypes can have good -Te, but I think depends on the DCNH subtype if they use it as preference or not. I think the reason LIE-Te's more often appear to be better leaders is because they tend to be D types more often.

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    First off Investigator, In wanna say God bless you for making this thread and trying to keep it on track.

    From my view as a Ni type LIE (Gamma NTs love sup-type conversation), I have really good Ni and use it a lot, find it more valuable than Te , but always in service of Te. My Ne is, from what I can tell, always on and really good at seeing how two things are alike. Maybe not so much at thinking up new was of doing things, but I can always see the correct answer when presented with options. My Se is there when it needs to be, I guess I have a hard time not arguing or pushing somebody when I have a different opinion about something that I believe will matter in the long run, but for the most part when it comes to quarrels I take a long run approach and ask myself if it will really matter in the long run and would it be worth it to spoil a friendship or useful contact. At least I see it that way, many people find me a little to forth coming. I feel like my Fe is just about were it's supposed to be for an LIE, great when I meet you and when it needs to be, but I would rather not. In my old age I think I am pretty good at telling who is feeling what way and what their alternative motives might be, not so good at knowing how I really feel about somebody or something (Fi). Si is better than it used to be, probably worse than most people I meet, but better than the LIE description at least.. jezz lol. Now were inert/contact really didn't suit me was that my Ti is, IMO great, exceptional even, which it should be worse than the descriptions if I am NI sub. Your ideas about which functions are boosted makes the most sense to me from my perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillaxe View Post
    First off Investigator, In wanna say God bless you for making this thread and trying to keep it on track.

    From my view as a Ni type LIE (Gamma NTs love sup-type conversation), I have really good Ni and use it a lot, find it more valuable than Te , but always in service of Te. My Ne is, from what I can tell, always on and really good at seeing how two things are alike. Maybe not so much at thinking up new was of doing things, but I can always see the correct answer when presented with options. My Se is there when it needs to be, I guess I have a hard time not arguing or pushing somebody when I have a different opinion about something that I believe will matter in the long run, but for the most part when it comes to quarrels I take a long run approach and ask myself if it will really matter in the long run and would it be worth it to spoil a friendship or useful contact. At least I see it that way, many people find me a little to forth coming. I feel like my Fe is just about were it's supposed to be for an LIE, great when I meet you and when it needs to be, but I would rather not. In my old age I think I am pretty good at telling who is feeling what way and what their alternative motives might be, not so good at knowing how I really feel about somebody or something (Fi). Si is better than it used to be, probably worse than most people I meet, but better than the LIE description at least.. jezz lol. Now were inert/contact really didn't suit me was that my Ti is, IMO great, exceptional even, which it should be worse than the descriptions if I am NI sub. Your ideas about which functions are boosted makes the most sense to me from my perspective.
    Thanks for you comment my friend.

    It gives me insight into a train of thought I have been having recently. If it is not too much trouble could you answer a few questions:

    1. How does your Fe compare to ILI-Ni's, ILI-Te's, and LIE-Te's?
    2. Can you talk about why you think your Ti is exceptional? What proficiencies do you have that you attribute to Ti?
    3. How does your Ti compare to LIE-Te's?
    4. Does your proficiency of Ti seem more similar to that of LSI's or LII's (regardless of subtype)?
    5. What do you think about the ideas expressed in this thread: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-and-producing? Do you believe the ideas are theoretical correct? Do you believe the ideas are correct in your experience?

    God Bless you too my friend.
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-15-2019 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Added one more question.

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