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Thread: The darkside of Ne

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    Default The darkside of Ne

    Whenever we think of Ne it's always focused one 'ideas, creativity, perspectives' blah blah blah blah ... this overly positive description is hardly any help when trying to understand the function, let alone understanding how it plays out in each type, because if we're being honest we manifest the negative aspects more often.

    So in the spirit of bringing negativity to the forum, I want to show how this function manifests in the real world, warts and all!

    I'll go first.

    *For a bit of context, "my friend" is an attention seeking weirdo i.e. extravagant dressing. This is all done in an attempt to be "different".*

    I have a long time "friend" (she ain't a friend) who I saw on the weekend at an event. It was all good however, communication quickly turned shady then, into outright insults. Keep in mind her mode of attack is very direct and she likes to dress in a way that causes a reaction.

    As she was insulting me I just looked into her eyes and said with pure non-nonchalance "I know quite a few people like you, personality and dress wise."

    It was as if someone had slapped her so hard she was stuck in slow motion because she didn't expect that from me, she's using to the insults and harsh words as a form of attack and she expected me to comment on her dressing... but I didn't. Anyway, she was fixated on what I said. "what do you mean? how? who's like me? what are they like?" she asked, I literally rocked her whole world and shattered her 'essence' because she's built her self esteem on being 'different'.

    I would put this down to Ne for the sheer fact I was able to see her motives and go straight in for a clean sweep.

    Basically, I can summarise the negative aspect of Ne as seeing what people truly want psychologically and not giving it to them.

    What are your experiences, do you concur?
    ...temporary visitor to the land of love...

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    Idk I think you're an EIE Danali and have Ne demonstrative. If you are strong at but don't directly give out information of a certain IE, then it's in your Id block.

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    dark side of Ne= easily get lost in its own bs. example: tonight I met an old friend, I told her "wait wait Im with X you have to wait for him coz he got a crush on u, wait!", she "whyyy tho" and she went away

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    dark side of Ne= easily get lost in its own bs. example: tonight I met an old friend, I told her "wait wait Im with X you have to wait for him coz he got a crush on u, wait!", she "whyyy tho" and she went away
    I honestly have no idea what this means, perhaps it's a mishap of translation. Could you please clarify what you meant by this?

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    dark sides is not in existent of information, but in the lack of it
    and in the lack of skills to use it properly, when the abbility for this is limited by weak regions

    > I can summarise the negative aspect of Ne as seeing what people truly want psychologically and not giving it to them

    having info about needs helps, but not prevents you to satisfy them
    having weak or nonvalued Fi predisposes to lesser caring about people by their wishes. besides nontypes reasons
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairda View Post
    I honestly have no idea what this means, perhaps it's a mishap of translation. Could you please clarify what you meant by this?
    o_O

    i met a friend while dancing, she approached me, I hadnt seen her for... 3 years, and the first thing I though about was to let her meet the friend I went out with, coz he got a big crush on her... (thinking about it now, it could be annoying, and in fact she laughed and left right away lol)... btw, yeah, Ne gets lost in its own visions of possibilities, for how bshitty they can be : )

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    Dark side of Ne is Ni.








    That is if you are Ne base. Time wears you down. Either with positive prospects of IEE or dark nihilism of ILE.
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    Probably not surprising but I don't think this is a good example of Ne - more like ethics.

    Ne does have a "dark side" which is generally refusing to "take sides" even when there is a clear right and wrong. This is linked to Si which avoids unpleasantness, conflict, etc.
    Also, generally getting caught up in speculative ideas or things which haven't proven their worth yet, although that's a bit subjective.

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    Sounds more 4-ish than Ne.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Dark Side of Ne = Heath Ledger's Joker

    (although he also uses lots of Ni)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Dark Side of Ne = Heath Ledger's Joker

    (although he also uses lots of Ni)
    That is the dark Ni ILE might experience sometimes... been there... not done that stuff Joker did.


    There is actual example of IEE criminal. Excellent Don Juan. Made ladies want to marry him instantly. Told lies about his social status and promised a lot. Took their money and disappeared.
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    sounds more SEE^

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    sounds more SEE^
    That would be second option. He was an excellent empath who had great listening skills. Sucked at being practical while he highly glamorized tough ST women who made him work at the field and put him in order in his childhood... which apparently backfired quite badly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Excellent Don Juan. Made ladies want to marry him instantly. Told lies about his social status and promised a lot. Took their money and disappeared.
    sounds more like an EIE

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    sounds more like an EIE
    See above. Excellent listener and making intimate bonds (Fi). Also Si suggestive as he liked to help around those issues while was not great at producing it himself.

    Also perfect match for Jung's description of Ne person.
    Last edited by Heretic 007; 09-04-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    See above. Excellent listener and making intimate bonds (Fi). Also Si suggestive as he liked to help around those issues while was not great at producing it himself.

    Also perfect match for Jung's description of Ne person.
    For those who don't know what Jung wrote on the Ne person, the darkside of Ne is written in the description.

    9. The Extraverted Intuitive Type

    Whenever intuition predominates, a particular and unmistakable psychology presents itself. Because intuition is orientated by the object, a decided dependence upon external situations is discernible, but it has an altogether different character from the dependence of the sensational type. The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist. He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. He seizes hold of new objects and new ways with eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. As long as a possibility exists, the intuitive is bound to it with thongs of fate. It is as though his whole life went out into the new situation. One gets the impression, which he himself shares, that he has just reached the definitive turning point in his life, and that from now on nothing else can seriously engage his thought and feeling. How- [p. 465] ever reasonable and opportune it may be, and although every conceivable argument speaks in favour of stability, a day will come when nothing will deter him from regarding as a prison, the self-same situation that seemed to promise him freedom and deliverance, and from acting accordingly. Neither reason nor feeling can restrain or discourage him from a new possibility, even though it may run counter to convictions hitherto unquestioned. Thinking and feeling, the indispensable components of conviction, are, with him, inferior functions, possessing no decisive weight; hence they lack the power to offer any lasting. resistance to the force of intuition. And yet these are the only functions that are capable of creating any effectual compensation to the supremacy of intuition, since they can provide the intuitive with that judgment in which his type is altogether lacking. The morality of the intuitive is governed neither by intellect nor by feeling; he has his own characteristic morality, which consists in a loyalty to his intuitive view of things and a voluntary submission to its authority, Consideration for the welfare of his neighbours is weak. No solid argument hinges upon their well-being any more than upon his own. Neither can we detect in him any great respect for his neighbour's convictions and customs; in fact, he is not infrequently put down as an immoral and ruthless adventurer. Since his intuition is largely concerned with outer objects, scenting out external possibilities, he readily applies himself to callings wherein he may expand his abilities in many directions. Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents, politicians, etc., commonly belong to this type.

    Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social con- [p. 466] nections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility.

    It is at once clear, both from the standpoint of political economy and on grounds of general culture, that such a type is uncommonly important. If well-intentioned, with an orientation to life not purely egoistical, he may render exceptional service as the promoter, if not the initiator of every kind of promising enterprise. He is the natural advocate of every minority that holds the seed of future promise. Because of his capacity, when orientated more towards men than things, to make an intuitive diagnosis of their abilities and range of usefulness, he can also 'make' men. His capacity to inspire his fellow-men with courage, or to kindle enthusiasm for something new, is unrivalled, although he may have forsworn it by the morrow. The more powerful and vivid his intuition, the more is his subject fused and blended with the divined possibility. He animates it; he presents it in plastic shape and with convincing fire; he almost embodies it. It is not a mere histrionic display, but a fate.

    This attitude has immense dangers -- all too easily the intuitive may squander his life. He spends himself animating men and things, spreading around him an abundance of life -- a life, however, which others live, not he. Were he able to rest with the actual thing, he would gather the fruit of his labours; yet all too soon must he be running after some fresh possibility, quitting his newly planted field, while others reap the harvest. In the end he goes empty away. But when the intuitive lets things reach such a pitch, he also has the unconscious against him. The unconscious of the intuitive has a certain similarity with that of the sensation-type. Thinking and feeling, being relatively repressed, produce infantile and archaic thoughts and feelings in the unconscious, which may be compared [p. 467] with those of the countertype. They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things. These latter usually command attention in the shape of a sudden entanglement with a most unsuitable woman, or, in the case of a woman, with a thoroughly unsuitable man; and this is simply the result of their unwitting contact with the sphere of archaic sensations. But its consequence is an unconsciously compelling tie to an object of incontestable futility. Such an event is already a compulsive symptom, which is also thoroughly characteristic of this type. In common with the sensation-type, he claims a similar freedom and exemption from all restraint, since he suffers no submission of his decisions to rational judgment, relying entirely upon the perception of chance, possibilities. He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. [p. 468]


    ďMy typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.Ē​ óC.G. Jung

     



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    Dark side of Ne is it makes the person look very weak or cowardly (or if not that, than perhaps untrustworthy) because they are so focused on multiple possibilities they cannot focus on the here and now. They are afraid to hit the pavement and deal with the gritty grimdarkness of real life. This is an extreme example but if you're shot in the chest, you want to focus on that- not the possibility in another lifetime, you are sipping wine with Oprah like everything is alright. The extreme positivity of ILEs (usually male ones but females sometimes too) is bizarre to me. I realize that to a lot of other types I am too positive and idealistic myself but ILE males are in another universe with that stuff to me. Even when ILE males quote a sad episode of Game of Thrones they have this buoyancy in their voice you know? Goddamn Fe valuers.

    The bright side of Ne I think they make great friends because they see your positive potentiality well, whereas people who aren't respecting Ne enough can sometimes miss. So they won't always harp on me or make me feel bad for my negative traits because they see how over time those traits could potentially be fixed or not matter anyway or something.

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    Easy - Ne lead: An erratic person who never wants to do something uncomfortable in the short term for long term benefit/gain, and in general rarely thinks in this manner, forcing others around them to wipe their ass for them in life to keep them alive...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Dark side of Ne is it makes the person look very weak or cowardly
    How stereotypically Beta! I'm not sure other quadras even think in such terms. ツ

    (or if not that, than perhaps untrustworthy) because they are so focused on multiple possibilities they cannot focus on the here and now. They are afraid to hit the pavement and deal with the gritty grimdarkness of real life. This is an extreme example but if you're shot in the chest, you want to focus on that- not the possibility in another lifetime, you are sipping wine with Oprah like everything is alright. The extreme positivity of ILEs (usually male ones but females sometimes too) is bizarre to me. I realize that to a lot of other types I am too positive and idealistic myself but ILE males are in another universe with that stuff to me. Even when ILE males quote a sad episode of Game of Thrones they have this buoyancy in their voice you know?
    This is less the case with dualized ILEs, but they're quite frequently darkly depressed underneath the surface -- Ne works in both directions. They prefer to focus on the brighter side of life and ignore the less pleasant parts because, well, they're Alphas. A measured amount of social interaction gives them that positive energy they need to feel great and distract themselves from their darker thoughts.

    I don't feel this way to quite the same extent, but I think, being an LII, my mindset is similar enough to understand this. Infinite Ne-possibilities loom before them, and there are many bad possibilities. ILEs tend to perceive that bad possibilities are more likely to happen. It's likely that they'll achieve nothing of importance in their lives, that they'll be crushed by a dead-end job, that their potential will go to waste; it's much less likely that they'll ever be on a beach sipping wine with Oprah (or, more suited to ILEs' tastes, accomplishing something prestigious by use of their intellect). So rather than just sit there contemplating the misery of life like an Ni base they joke and have fun, which, again, as Alphas, is basically their favorite thing to do. The depression typically just seeps out when they're drunk, or have spent too much time alone.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-07-2019 at 12:36 AM.
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    @FreelancePoliceman ILEs are Reinin postivists

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    @FreelancePoliceman ILEs are Reinin postivists
    Lol. My bad. Edited.
    As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Easy - Ne lead: An erratic person who never wants to do something uncomfortable in the short term for long term benefit/gain, and in general rarely thinks in this manner, forcing others around them to wipe their ass for them in life to keep them alive...
    That is more like LII with Ne PoLR. Ne bases do want to do things but have troubles accepting incentive at least with ILE. For example ILE would pour his life into something for many years and then when it is the payback time he just says: "It won't be that great. Let's do something else."

    Like that Joker who studied to be a chemist then said...I just graduated but why.. let's try nihilism and do this and that.


    Oh my flying spaghetti monster, my life starts to sound like it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    That is more like LII with Ne PoLR. Ne bases do want to do things but have troubles accepting incentive at least with ILE. For example ILE would pour his life into something for many years and then when it is the payback time he just says: "It won't be that great. Let's do something else."

    Like that Joker who studied to be a chemist then said...I just graduated but why.. let's try nihilism and do this and that.

    Oh my flying spaghetti monster, my life starts to sound like it...
    LII with Ne polr?

    Maybe you're not as much like how I described, idk you, but I also know many Ne leads who are. Si seeking is kind of like secretly wanting to not go against the status quo or do what makes them feel queasy about providing benefit/gain, because it's different from what they're used to, while being a groundbreaking weirdo at the same time.

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    Se PoLR LII. Yeah... those are more likely IEE's (lol) and LII's. Even, EII's seem to have far better followthrough than those.

    But ILE's and EII's have stark Si boundaries. Not gonna eat that and so on.
    Last edited by Heretic 007; 09-07-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Se PoLR LII. Yeah... those are more likely IEE's (lol) and LII's. Even, EII's seem to have far better followthrough than those.

    But ILE's and EII's have stark Si boundaries. Not gonna eat that and so on.
    No, most of the people I'm thinking of are ILEs, and some IEEs too to an extent. Some have an aversive reaction towards pain, and others have a counterphobic reaction towards it, some alternatingly. Some I've known are calm towards it but need to create some form of routine to cope. Most people in general don't like pain or discomfort though, and a type with Si as a 1D function is going to be more 'opinionated' if you will on how to regulate and deal with such things, to not lose control in an area of low confidence.

    An LII with 2D Si would be much better with this.

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    @Danali Yes, some will put information to bad use. One's dark-side may be a result of negative input at some point in one's history but to actually produce darkness, as you describe it, requires rationalization. Ne-types do tend to focus on relative measures so a person's ultimate objective could be accurately estimated by many of them. However, Ne-types tend to be rather idealistic and somewhat naive about people's motives (an objective doesn't always produce motivation and motivation doesn't always have an objective). Se-types seem far more realistic and practical, and seem better at determining motives - although like every type, they can be wrong.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Dark side of Ne. Is there an impartial dark side of Ne, or is it the subjectivity of people who view some aspects of Ne of other people as negative?

    The negative side of Ne for myself is likely getting distracted but that's not always the case. I guess getting lost in thoughts and doing little practical activity might be negative.
    My opinion on it:
    LII are doing best in fundamental research in science, because it's all about defining a system of rules that are true for everybody.

    My natural habit is to collect and order abstract information, creating concepts, doing essential physical tasks only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    No, most of the people I'm thinking of are ILEs, and some IEEs too to an extent. Some have an aversive reaction towards pain, and others have a counterphobic reaction towards it, some alternatingly. Some I've known are calm towards it but need to create some form of routine to cope. Most people in general don't like pain or discomfort though, and a type with Si as a 1D function is going to be more 'opinionated' if you will on how to regulate and deal with such things, to not lose control in an area of low confidence.

    An LII with 2D Si would be much better with this.
    Yeah. I know we see challenge bit differently. LII does not fight with windmills as they drop that because they conserve for reality. Bunch of wussies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danali View Post
    Whenever we think of Ne it's always focused one 'ideas, creativity, perspectives' blah blah blah blah ... this overly positive description is hardly any help when trying to understand the function, let alone understanding how it plays out in each type, because if we're being honest we manifest the negative aspects more often.

    So in the spirit of bringing negativity to the forum, I want to show how this function manifests in the real world, warts and all!

    I'll go first.

    *For a bit of context, "my friend" is an attention seeking weirdo i.e. extravagant dressing. This is all done in an attempt to be "different".*

    I have a long time "friend" (she ain't a friend) who I saw on the weekend at an event. It was all good however, communication quickly turned shady then, into outright insults. Keep in mind her mode of attack is very direct and she likes to dress in a way that causes a reaction.

    As she was insulting me I just looked into her eyes and said with pure non-nonchalance "I know quite a few people like you, personality and dress wise."

    It was as if someone had slapped her so hard she was stuck in slow motion because she didn't expect that from me, she's using to the insults and harsh words as a form of attack and she expected me to comment on her dressing... but I didn't. Anyway, she was fixated on what I said. "what do you mean? how? who's like me? what are they like?" she asked, I literally rocked her whole world and shattered her 'essence' because she's built her self esteem on being 'different'.

    I would put this down to Ne for the sheer fact I was able to see her motives and go straight in for a clean sweep.

    Basically, I can summarise the negative aspect of Ne as seeing what people truly want psychologically and not giving it to them.

    What are your experiences, do you concur?
    I agree that's one manipulative side of Ne. Also leading people to believe lies, seeing what someone wants and choosing the right words to appeal to them to get them to give you what you want also or the reaction you want. Find ways to manipulate situations between people to get what you want, trying to control other people's perceptions to make you look good or better than someone else or look like you won an arguement.

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    I'm ILE-Ne. Here are the shadow sides of being so Ne:

    - Too many options, all of which I want to do, and then I am frozen being pulled in 10 different directions that all seem so interesting and I end up just doing nothing for the day. I was quite good friends with an SEE co-worker a few years ago. I was talking about something with her, explaining how I couldn't figure out what to do (I being torn in multiple ways), and she just rolled her eyes and said, "why don't you just make a decision?"

    - I will not speak with certainty about anything.

    - I tell everyone, "I can see what you mean," and then it ends up biting me in the ass because two people who have issues get together and one of them eventually says, "Mighylizard agrees with me."

    - I will talk to anyone/associate with anyone because I see everyones redeeming qualities. If person X has an issue with person Y and I'm cordial with both of them it often leads to issues/awkwardness. I don't think this is an inherent issue with me though, and I've grown a lot in the past few years to say, at least to myself, "if person X is going to stop talking to me because I am not a dick to person Y then person x is too much about themselves for me."

    - In regards to the time thing, yes, that is probably the darkest of all. The slow passing of time, and I know I have all this potential, but not all of it will be realized, and then I'll be dead.

    - The incentive thing is true too. Me: Works hard for my degree. Me at the end of my degree: I think I wanna work in a coffee shop. That would be cool. Luckily I've worked on this a lot of have gotten better at isolating goals/realizing that I have to cut some "options" loose in order to have a better quality of life in general. Oh, also, I am So/Sx, so Sp blindspot exaggerated this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Probably not surprising but I don't think this is a good example of Ne - more like ethics.

    Ne does have a "dark side" which is generally refusing to "take sides" even when there is a clear right and wrong. This is linked to Si which avoids unpleasantness, conflict, etc.
    Also, generally getting caught up in speculative ideas or things which haven't proven their worth yet, although that's a bit subjective.
    This is what particularly annoys me about alphas and alpha NTs in general, although I tend to get along with them IRL I don't like fence-sitters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Probably not surprising but I don't think this is a good example of Ne - more like ethics.

    Ne does have a "dark side" which is generally refusing to "take sides" even when there is a clear right and wrong. This is linked to Si which avoids unpleasantness, conflict, etc.
    Also, generally getting caught up in speculative ideas or things which haven't proven their worth yet, although that's a bit subjective.
    Ne isn't about deciding between right and wrong. Isn't that directly linked to the judging functions?

    If anything, I think this would be specific to Ne in the delta quadra.
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