Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Orson Welles hated Woody Allen. So do I.

  1. #1
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Orson Welles hated Woody Allen. So do I.

    Nail meet head. The physical site of Allen disgusts me. He is a mouse of a man.

    Orson Wells hated Woody Allen. In a 1983 interview he said of him:

    O.W.: I hate Woody Allen physically, I dislike that kind of man.

    Interviewer: Iíve never understood why. Have you met him?

    O.W.: Oh, yes. I can hardly bear to talk to him. He has the Chaplin disease. That particular combination of arrogance and timidity sets my teeth on edge.

    Interviewer: Heís not arrogant; heís shy.

    O.W.: He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but heís not. Heís scared. He hates himself, and he loves himself, a very tense situation. Itís people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, itís the most embarrassing thing in the worldóa man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Everything he does on the screen is therapeutic.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

  2. #2
    Total sweetheart PussyInASarcophagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Mťxico
    TIM
    SLEazy 8w9
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What a shit stain interviewer trying to correct Wells. Seriously the film press has to be the some of the lowest scum in the world

  3. #3
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,400
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Triggered

  4. #4
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    14,252
    Mentioned
    780 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't like woody Allen either but the idea that timidity signals arrogance is interesting. I haven't noticed this "Chaplin disease" in anyone. I'd love to be filled in, if anyone wants to explain or give any other examples.

  5. #5
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,192
    Mentioned
    77 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tearsofaclown View Post
    O.W.: He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but heís not. Heís scared. He hates himself, and he loves himself, a very tense situation. Itís people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, itís the most embarrassing thing in the worldóa man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Everything he does on the screen is therapeutic.
    First of all, I don't think Woody Allen would disagree with Welles.

    Secondly, it's obvious that Orson Welles knew shit about Socionics, or else he would have recognized the merits of Allen's personality.

    Third: What the fuck do we care that you agree with Orson Welles? Unlike Welles and Allen, you're insignificant.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  6. #6
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Logical supermacy torturing So(u)ls
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    4,664
    Mentioned
    198 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default


    1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manneran arrogant official

    2: showing an offensive attitude of superiority : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance
    If we think timidity as a trait of trying to be agreeable in the moment then if this person fails to agree it means he disagrees mostly with anyone without having a backbone to say so.

    If we think shyness as a trait of keeping stuff within yourself and going about it without preferred predisposition it just means not to express it and therefore the person shies away from the moment indiscriminately.

    Or what are we looking for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

  7. #7
    2real Remiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Can'-Ka No Rey
    TIM
    Ni-ILI 468 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,823
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was excited at the thread title but when I saw the poster I was let down.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



  8. #8
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I don't like woody Allen either but the idea that timidity signals arrogance is interesting. I haven't noticed this "Chaplin disease" in anyone. I'd love to be filled in, if anyone wants to explain or give any other examples.

    Who knows. Welles may just be saying something that he thinks sounds good.

    Another example is Moby. People think these nerdy, timid vegans are like these good guys. He was raked over the coals recently. It probably annoys Welles that he is considered arrogant and these nerds are the good guys.

    Al Franken is another example. An arrogant weakling. A good article took him down recently too.

    it plays up Franken’s account of his haplessness, dejection, decency, and ineptitude. So successfully does Franken convey this sad sack impression of himself that you might almost miss the way he knifed his one-time squash partner’s flailing presidential candidacy.

    He is a “clumsy” guy, as a former colleague says; he’s a guy who falls backward off chairs because his backpack is too heavy. A guy who doesn’t even chew right, who has so little sense of how he comes across that his staffers have to monitor him so he doesn’t accidentally offend. A man whose large hands might explain inadvertent extra touching. A backturtle. A bumbler.


    Moby article:

    Moby's treatment of Natalie Portman is a masterclass in nice-guy misogyny




    Moby’s reaction to Portman’s refutations is also a masterclass in nice-guy misogyny. After all, Moby doesn’t present as a scary predator. He looks non-threatening; he’s a vegan; he’s politically progressive; he’s called out artists like Eminem for being misogynistic. But while Moby might not spout obviously misogynistic lyrics, he’s obviously no feminist. He dismisses Portman’s version of events, for example, as a “gossip piece.” Clearly you can’t take a woman’s recollections seriously, it’s just brainless gossip!


    Welles would despise Moby too. I love it when these guys are hung with their own rope. You need people like Welles, so you can't point your fuckin finger and say, "That's the bad guy." What does that make you? Good? Nah, you ain't good. You just know how to lie. How to hide. Me? I don't have that problem. I tell the truth even when I lie.




    Moby probably sits at home with girls and when Eminem is on TV, he whispers to them, "That's the bad guy." lol.

    I actually have some of these awkward traits but I don't celebrate them. Look at Zuckerberg. He is awkward and wants to spend no time on the subject at all. He doesn't try to get sympathy from it or anything else. He doesn't celebrate it. He isn't out acting pathetic. Elon Musk too. That is how awkward people should behave. Bill Gates too. Gates, Zuck and Musk are all strong willed. It's ok to be nerdy and awkward as long as you are strong. That is what Welles hated. The weakness behind the arrogance.
    Last edited by Tearsofaclown; 09-04-2019 at 10:11 PM.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

  9. #9
    Haikus thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,113
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant."

    Huh? How does that make sense at all.

  10. #10
    kalinoche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    193 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    "Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant."

    Huh? How does that make sense at all.
    it could be that welles had oftentimes wanted to be able to stfu in company for a change but kept talking to avoid looking arrogant
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

  11. #11
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    it could be that welles had oftentimes wanted to be able to stfu in company for a change but kept talking to avoid looking arrogant
    Great post. literal lol. Still giggling.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Pop culture was up until recently celebrating the shy yet arrogant man.

    -->Arrested Development
    ---->The Big Bang theory
    ---->Office Space

    The age of the young Millennial is this way, over sharing yet incompetent to over come.

    I was watching old TV series "What's my name?" (1950's B&W) with my ESE friend and could see just how composed and intelligent and sharp witted people used to be in public.

    Its a real dumpster fire nowadays.

    I tend to agree with the OP premise, although it doesn't particularly bother me. More-so something to notice more than anything.

    I also agree with Kali, checking out the plank in one's own eye and making sure there are no issues of projection creeping in the sidelines.

    Baring that, then obviously you just don't care for neurotic introspective males.

    I type Woody Allen as ILI.

    I think there is a transition away from the need for a neurotic style humour.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    it could be that welles had oftentimes wanted to be able to stfu in company for a change but kept talking to avoid looking arrogant
    Byron is great, but eventually you see that not everything is the shadowed opposite.

  14. #14
    kalinoche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    193 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Byron is great, but eventually you see that not everything is the shadowed opposite.
    when one does the Byron work, they get to keep the turnarounds that work for them. in this case i was not self-inquiring. it was speculation/projection. if anything, i was somehow in *his* business!
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    813
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    when one does the Byron work, they get to keep the turnarounds that work for them. in this case i was not self-inquiring. it was speculation/projection. if anything, i was somehow in *his* business!
    I have been doing work for nearly and decade now.

    i dont even think of it anymore its been so ammalgumated into my stream of thoughts..it has some bad consequences though, so watch out.

    last winter when working in the bush i would drink a huge cup of coffee and my conversations with coworkers as we drove out with go to all kinds of topics and anything that didnt have any truth in them, any words and thoughts that would flash in my minds eye would actually cause me psycological pain and It would be like a fire burning up everything that wasn't true. It was a LOT of thoughts, basically everything I could think. I ended up saying very little those mornings.

    From that point onwards, I can't handle a single scrap of negativity from me or anyone in the morning time. I see negativity at this hour and in prep for work (battles) as a form of neurosis. I'm not saying walk around talking and acting like Pauly-Anna, I'm talking about handling your fucking shit first thing in the AM and finding the most authentic stream of thoughts which is hard to do with all the inner chatter.

  16. #16
    kalinoche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    193 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @timber
    i was interested in reading your experience, so thanks for being so candid. The way I understand the method is that it aims at eliminating the effect of stressful thoughts and makes it easier to find alternative action by exploring one's awareness. Exploring awareness is not trying to figure out what's true in the blind/on the spot. It takes time (that you had to give yourself in that situation IMO) and to me it seems that you were caught up in your thoughts, not taking into account bodily effect/emotions. Regarding ''finding the most authentic stream of thoughts which is hard to do with all the inner chatter'': I see that this is something you try to do outside Byron's method. If you follow the method you need to use pen and paper (or her app) in order to isolate thoughts and slow down the mind. This does not come easy to me either. I think I got addicted to information at an early age and at some point I even started getting a kick out of how fast I could go from one thought to the other...
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

  17. #17
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    6,022
    Mentioned
    703 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    @timber
    i was interested in reading your experience, so thanks for being so candid. The way I understand the method is that it aims at eliminating the effect of stressful thoughts and makes it easier to find alternative action by exploring one's awareness. Exploring awareness is not trying to figure out what's true in the blind/on the spot. It takes time (that you had to give yourself in that situation IMO) and to me it seems that you were caught up in your thoughts, not taking into account bodily effect/emotions. Regarding ''finding the most authentic stream of thoughts which is hard to do with all the inner chatter'': I see that this is something you try to do outside Byron's method. If you follow the method you need to use pen and paper (or her app) in order to isolate thoughts and slow down the mind. This does not come easy to me either. I think I got addicted to information at an early age and at some point I even started getting a kick out of how fast I could go from one thought to the other...
    This is interesting and it seems to me that the method would apply to ESIís, who, I gather, spend a lot of their time being vigilant inside their heads.
    Personally, when I watched some of Byronís videos, I didnít see that they had much application for me, perhaps because I donít have a lot of thoughts and donít question much the ones I do have.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-05-2019 at 07:24 PM.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    723
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    He seems to be criticizing E5's. He must have been a three,which are openly arrogant and not covertly like fives.

  19. #19
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    He seems to be criticizing E5's. He must have been a three,which are openly arrogant and not covertly like fives.
    He seems like 8 more than 3.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    723
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tearsofaclown View Post
    He seems like 8 more than 3.
    He seems a 3w2

  21. #21
    Haikus thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,113
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When people have an irrational hatred for a certain kind of behavior, it's often a good sign of their sociotype as well.

    Pop quiz: what is Welles criticizing here in terms of IM?

  22. #22
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    When people have an irrational hatred for a certain kind of behavior, it's often a good sign of their sociotype as well.

    Pop quiz: what is Welles criticizing here in terms of IM?

    Judaism. It is a very Jewish thing. Larry David is similar. Actually, I have never watched anything by Allen so can't really comment. David is good imo.

    Charlie Chaplin wasn't a Jew but Hitler thought he was so I guess that makes him kind of a jew. lol. Hitler would despise Allen too. He was big on physical fitness and pride. Nietzsche too. Complaining is weakness. Nietzsche would say that the Jews tried to make everyone as neurotic and weak as Allen through Christianity.

    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

  23. #23
    ImOutThere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    First of all, I don't think Woody Allen would disagree with Welles.

    Secondly, it's obvious that Orson Welles knew shit about Socionics, or else he would have recognized the merits of Allen's personality.

    Third: What the fuck do we care that you agree with Orson Welles? Unlike Welles and Allen, you're insignificant.
    You cared so little that you had to reply.

  24. #24
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,967
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    "Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant."

    Huh? How does that make sense at all.
    Because they imagine themselves to be so important that everyone else will hang on their every word, thus terrifying them, because they also think they're worthless crap.

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    25
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tearsofaclown View Post
    O.W.: He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but he’s not. He’s scared. He hates himself, and he loves himself, a very tense situation. It’s people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, it’s the most embarrassing thing in the world—a man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Everything he does on the screen is therapeutic.
    Could be something approximating "covert narcissism." It would make sense given the context of the other stuff in his private life (child abuse, marrying his adopted daughter, etc.).

    I think he's a worm.

  26. #26
    MegaDoodoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


  27. #27
    Tearsofaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New York
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    448
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Because they imagine themselves to be so important that everyone else will hang on their every word, thus terrifying them, because they also think they're worthless crap.
    This hit too close to home. I think you are onto something here. I wish I had Orson's confidence. I do feel like people will hang on my every word and it terrifies me. I am also arrogant and worthless. lol.

    Uselessness is useful though. I first heard this story from Jung:

    The Useless Tree

    - Chuang Tsu

    Shih the carpenter was on his way to the state of Chi. When he got to Chu Yuan, he saw an oak tree by the village shrine. The tree was large enough to shade several thousand oxen and was a hundred spans around. It towered above the hilltops with its lowest branches eighty feet from the ground. More than ten of its branches were big enough to be made into boats. There were crowds of people as in a marketplace. The master carpenter did not even turn his head but walked on without stopping.

    His apprentice took a long look then ran after Shih the carpenter and said, "Since I took up my ax and followed you, master, I have never seen timber as beautiful as this. But you do not even bother to look at it and walk on without stopping. Why is this?"

    Shih the carpenter replied, "Stop! Say no more! That tree is useless. A boat made from it would sink, a coffin would soon rot, a tool would split, a door would ooze sap, and a beam would have termites. It is worthless timber and is of no use. That is why it has reached such a ripe old age."

    After Shih the carpenter had returned home, the sacred oak appeared to him in a dream, saying, "What are you comparing me with? Are you comparing me with useful trees? There are cherry, apple, pear, orange, citron, pomelo, and other fruit trees. As soon as the fruit is ripe, the trees are stripped and abused. Their large branches are split, and the smaller ones torn off. Their life is bitter because of their usefulness. That is why they do not live out their natural lives but are cut off in their prime. They attract the attentions of the common world. This is so for all things. As for me, I have been trying for a long time to be useless. I was almost destroyed several times. Finally I am useless, and this is very useful to me."


    “I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment.”

    Woody Allen, The Illustrated Woody Allen Reader

    I agree.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •