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Thread: Greta Thunberg

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    Regarding Greta's transportation: She would have been called a hypocrite if she'd taken a plane, even if it was an empty seat on a plane already making a flight. Voting with our money is a common way of showing what we support...and what we don't. Paying for the seat, would mean supporting flying. Accepting a free seat would have meant advertising for flying.
    ...As is, she took a solar powered zero carbon emission yacht. Presumably to show that zero carbon transportation across the world is a legitimate possibility. As for the train use, high speed rails are more energy efficient than planes. It might be slower, and more personally expensive than a plane, but it trades the convenience of fast and cheap for the convenience of using that time in productive as well as relaxive ways.

    Regarding Greta taking time off from school: Just because she's not doing formal schooling atm, doesn't mean she's not being educated nor seeking further education. There's such a thing as homeschooling, unschooling, etc. If anything, this trip and process she's going through would be an excellent example of unschooling. Among other things, I'm sure she's learning about politics, public speaking, climate science, alternative transportation, and sociology. I expect that she's getting a far more in depth educational experience about these things than most college students graduate with.

    Regarding climate change related policies (personal changes and political changes) being too inconvenient and expensive to put into practice: the fact is that we're facing having to make drastic changes, whether now or later. If we start making changes now, we can improve our technology, our knowledge, etc to prepare ourselves to better survive the coming changes. If we wait until the hell is upon us, the changes we'll face will be harder to survive (short term), harder to manipulate, and harder to recover from (long term survival). Basically, either way, we're facing a future different from our present way of doing things. How different depends on how soon (less different) or how late (significantly more different) we implement changes in how we do things.

    Regarding her pleas and guilt-tripping: She's talking to world leaders. I'm guessing this batch is primarily made up of older people who have lived their lives already or have established themselves in a soon-to-be outdated economic/socio-political model. She's talking to policy makers who believe that a finite world with finite resources can provide infinite growth for their wallets. She's talking to the people who don't want to make policy changes, because it would inconvenience themselves or their supporters. She's talking to the people that think that sticking their heads in a hole will make climate change go away or pass over them. The problem is, their decisions ARE affecting the future...HER future, the future of humanity, not just humanity but of Earth. So yes, how dare those in positions of leadership and responsibility be so damned nonchalant about this crisis.

    Regarding typing Greta Thunberg: A public speech about a topic is different than the actual processing of the information. She had prepared speech points, assistance in editing and refining the speech points, tips on pacing, tone, etc, as well as time to practice. So typing her based on her climate change speeches is rather pointless, as it's not HER your typing, but the result of all that combination. It would be better to find spontaneous videos of her interacting on topics/activities other than climate change, as those would be closer to the real her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Regarding Greta's transportation: She would have been called a hypocrite if she'd taken a plane, even if it was an empty seat on a plane already making a flight. Voting with our money is a common way of showing what we support...and what we don't. Paying for the seat, would mean supporting flying. Accepting a free seat would have meant advertising for flying.
    All of that is just perception and appearances. Which is why I called it a stunt. It's about looking good, and it's not about actually being rational. How much energy was used in the manufacture of her boat? It can't be recycled either. . . Silly stuff like that people can still nitpick and they'd technically be right about it, so might as well do something that doesn't actually create additional waste and is already headed the same way. Unless you're running an emotional campaign which is all about getting people on your side. If you want to really avoid waste, arrange not to be there in person, but via video or something. . . but that just wouldn't have the same emotional impact would it?

    Edit: Sigh, politics politics, it's all politics.

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    in the end she wins. people are actually taking it seriously, analyzing everything and giving it attention/energy

    suckasssss lol
    Even gravity won't hold back your tears from science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    in the end she wins. people are actually taking it seriously, analyzing everything and giving it attention/energy

    suckasssss lol
    If things actually change, for the better, based on her speeches and actions wouldn't everybody win?

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    All of that is just perception and appearances. Which is why I called it a stunt. It's about looking good, and it's not about actually being rational. How much energy was used in the manufacture of her boat? It can't be recycled either. . . Silly stuff like that people can still nitpick and they'd technically be right about it, so might as well do something that doesn't actually create additional waste and is already headed the same way. Unless you're running an emotional campaign which is all about getting people on your side. If you want to really avoid waste, arrange not to be there in person, but via video or something. . . but that just wouldn't have the same emotional impact would it?

    Edit: Sigh, politics politics, it's all politics.
    The boat wasn't made just for this trip, it already existed. However, it may have been specially outfitted for the trip. But again, that serves a purpose of demonstrating that alternative transportation options exist. Outfitting and using a boat to be zero carbon emissions isn't any more of a stunt than putting solar panels on one's home and using the resulting solar power.

    As for really avoiding waste and arranging not to be somewhere in person, Greta's previously declined an award because accepting it would have required finalists to fly to the ceremony and meeting. So NOT flying was more important to her than the perception and appearance of receiving an award.

     
    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg
    In November 2018, about three months into her school climate strike, Thunberg was nominated for the Children's Climate Prize, which is awarded by the Swedish electricity company Telge Energi. However, Thunberg declined to accept the award because many of the finalists would have to fly to Stockholm for the ceremony and a required meeting with one another.



    Sitting at home, making video calls doesn't do much to demonstrate one's passion for a cause. So in that sense, yeah we can call it a stunt. But then we'd pretty much have to call ANY explicit activist action 'a stunt'. Kneeling during the national anthem to bring awareness to black lives being shot? a stunt. Marching from Selma to Montgomery? a stunt. Pride Parade? just stunts. Impassioned pleas during video taped interviews? stunts.

    And we know, psychologically speaking, that there is so much more meaning when a person is physically present vs written argument, still-shots, or even video. There is more meaning found in the communications from the physical presence of the communicator. And when we consider something so important, especially something that affects our very life, we're more likely to try to achieve the change in person. For example, if a judge and jury who were discussing matters and making decisions that would affect the lives of your children, would you prefer to make calls and go to the court house yourself to be part of that discussion? Or would you simply settle for a letter...or for having your face on a laptop screen? The more important something is to us, the more likely we'll want to by physically present for it.


    And yes, it IS all about politics...because it's all about policies. The UN meeting effects policy decisions. Being present vs writing a letter effects policy decisions. Greta's whole purpose of the trip was to try to influence policies regarding Climate Change perceptions and responses. The March from Selma to Montgomery was to bring attention, awareness, and influence to the policies of its time. Pride Parades do that. Kneeling during the national anthem attempts to do that. As do any impassioned pleas to policy makers.

    And we know her "stunt" is working...because her "stunt" brought awareness to her cause, and now people are talking a little more about it. Not just about her, but about Climate Change and what needs to be done.
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    If Americans want to help the environment you know what you have to do.



    I wonder if anyone on this forum who supports Greta now also voted or showed support for Trump.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    If Americans want to help the environment you know what you have to do.



    I wonder if anyone on this forum who supports Greta now also voted or showed support for Trump.
    a huge problem that we have is that most world leaders are ST types with low intuition, so they rarely think about the future consequences of their actions, or don't concern themselves with threats that are far away into the future (although they aren't far away, since many people are already affected by climate change). another pecularity of trump is that he's an aristrocratic type, so he won't listen to the words of a child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    a huge problem that we have is that most world leaders are ST types with low intuition, so they rarely think about the future consequences of their actions, or don't concern themselves with threats that are far away into the future (although they aren't far away, since many people are already affected by climate change). another peculiarity of trump is that he's an aristocratic type, so he won't listen to the words of a child.
    Nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    a huge problem that we have is that most world leaders are ST types with low intuition, so they rarely think about the future consequences of their actions, or don't concern themselves with threats that are far away into the future (although they aren't far away, since many people are already affected by climate change). another pecularity of trump is that he's an aristrocratic type, so he won't listen to the words of a child.
    I type Trump SEE. If anyone wants to understand why they will have to wade through the sea of posts in the Trump thread. STs are not the only low intuition types according to socionics. Trump is an emotional diva prone to temper tantrums. If he were a woman I doubt as many people would think to type him with logic in his ego. Maybe we will find something to agree on someday.

    Not to mention there are plenty of STs who are concerned with climate change.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    The "Climate" has been changed in Sweden drastically.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    If things actually change, for the better, based on her speeches and actions wouldn't everybody win?
    Eh, I guess. It’s a complicated issue. And there’s nothing new being brought up, it’s just bringing back the negativity and division.

    We need unity.

    But in the end,

    Rationalization aside, we are a divided country and the dominant, more popular thought will win out.
    Even gravity won't hold back your tears from science.

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    Imagine taking a child's political views seriously. Twitter did this to us, where we think everyone's opinion is equal.

    Take from that what you will, people with no education challenging scientific consensus or a child lecturing world leaders.

    She's just a mascot for a political movement, its all theatre.

    Her type seems ESI. Lots of ethical judgment going on yet very little expression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    The boat wasn't made just for this trip, it already existed. However, it may have been specially outfitted for the trip. But again, that serves a purpose of demonstrating that alternative transportation options exist. Outfitting and using a boat to be zero carbon emissions isn't any more of a stunt than putting solar panels on one's home and using the resulting solar power.
    She's not taking the boat back. They're flying additional people out to return it, and she's flying home from what I understand. So not actually saving any carbon emissions at all. I realize I didn't type things out clearly - my son's comments were a joke, saying "why doesn't she take a sailboat everywhere instead of even riding a train?" as a joke because it's clearly impractical. He easily saw through the scheme and made a joke about it. And my comments about "how much energy did it take to make the boat" as I said were silly nitpicky comments, comparing them to the kind of thinking going into taking it in the first place. In other words, none of this does any good or really makes any sense at all when you think about it. The easiest solution of all would be to have a videoconference. It's a very obvious stunt.

    Edit: But yes, as you pointed out, it all makes perfect political sense, certainly makes emotional sense. . . I was merely speaking about how much logical, pragmatic sense it makes. It fails there. And using a child to spread your message adds impact to the emotions created certainly even if you have to make the child into a hypocrite to do it.
    Last edited by squark; 09-25-2019 at 10:18 PM.

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    From https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

    I want people to unite behind the science... And that is what we have to realize, that that is what we have to do right now.. I’m not the one who’s saying these things. I’m not the one who we should be listening to. And I say that all the time. I say we need to listen to the scientists.
    Te valuing

    That happens all the time. That’s basically all I hear. The most common criticism I get is that I’m being manipulated and you shouldn’t use children in political ways, because that is abuse, and I can’t think for myself and so on. And I think that is so annoying! I’m also allowed to have a say – why shouldn’t I be able to form my own opinion and try to change people’s minds?

    Thurnberg has an uncanny ability to concentrate... “I can do the same thing for hours,” she said....She began researching climate change and has stayed on the topic for six years. She has stopped eating meat and buying anything that is not absolutely necessary. In 2015, she stopped flying on airplanes, and a year later, her mother followed suit, giving up an international performing career. The family has installed solar batteries and has started growing their own vegetables on an allotment outside the city. To meet me in central Stockholm, Thunberg and her father rode their bikes for about half an hour; the family has an electric car that they use only when necessary.

    Based on this site and the wikipedia page on her, I'd say she might be Te valuing, strong N, and so/sp (or sp/so).
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    a huge problem that we have is that most world leaders are ST types with low intuition, so they rarely think about the future consequences of their actions, or don't concern themselves with threats that are far away into the future...
    I agree with your argument about politicians or leaders having low intution is not a good thing... because for making important decisions that involces a lot of people you have to look at the big picture in a competent way.
    But I doubt that the most world leaders are ST, there are also SF leaders.

    What I can tell about Greta Thunberg is that she's an intuitive type and she's highly intelligent.
    She achieved best grades in different subjects in school, despite she had plenty of absent days in school.
    She learns subject material in school very quickly.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 09-25-2019 at 10:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    The "Climate" has been changed in Sweden drastically.
    Looks like the annual car barbecue held in Berlin, Germany at 1st May.

    Or the very inexpensive way to scrap your old car, just park it in Berlin the evening before that day.
    Yeah, I'm quite sarcastic now.

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    To All Europeans Who Hate Muslim Refugees: YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER WILL BE FUCKING ONE IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    To All Europeans Who Hate Muslims: YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER WILL BE FUCKING ONE IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!
    what m8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You made some valid points but not sure where you get that I only care about sexual identity causes since I said nothing like that and it is far from true. You missed my point. I didn't condemn her and I didn't say she didn't have the right to speak either.
    I was making a remark about your mod attitude of the last times: letting streams of shit go and only taking action for sexual identity silly remarks.

    I know you're better than that. but it makes me wonder... (I've addressed other mods too, so I guess I'm being fair saying this.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    To All Europeans Who Hate Muslim Refugees: YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER WILL BE FUCKING ONE IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!
    @xerxe, that’s not really a convincing argument. Europe has enough weapons to kill everyone heading North.

    A better argument is that delaying climate change solutions will cost an exponentially greater amount of money, and if it isn’t dealt with soon, your granddaughter will be living in a garbage bag and eating her dog.

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    ESI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @xerxe, that’s not really a convincing argument. Europe has enough weapons to kill everyone heading North.

    A better argument is that delaying climate change solutions will cost an exponentially greater amount of money, and if it isn’t dealt with soon, your granddaughter will be living in a garbage bag and eating her dog.
    That doesn't carry the same punch, Adam, because conservatives believe they can isolate themselves from social collapse by retreating to fortified estates or gated communities. For some reason, they don't feel the same way about an influx of dirty black and brown people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    I was making a remark about your mod attitude of the last times: letting streams of shit go and only taking action for sexual identity silly remarks.

    I know you're better than that. but it makes me wonder... (I've addressed other mods too, so I guess I'm being fair saying this.)
    So it was just my turn to hear your dissatisfaction with forum modding. heh You didn't mind my modding too much when I helped you out by moving threads, deleting posts and issuing a warning. Let's keep mod complaints to the right subforum.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    To All Europeans Who Hate Muslim Refugees: YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER WILL BE FUCKING ONE IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!
    I'm not frowning at the threat, but I don't follow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!
    it's doubtful due to people activities. but is used to reduce the production. such to reduce material level of people's life, reduce population, to reduce sparing of resources on anyone besides a minority with money.
    the problem with emigrants is economical and political. those are pushed to Europe intentionally. one of reasons - it's a kind of war and a stick of USA against European states. also this helps later to establish more of fascistic ideology and reduce socialistic norms which are for the interests of majority. this helps to support islamistic bands to war against today Eastern nations to supress and ruin them. etc profits
    The main reason for emigrants in Europe is the wars and destruction by USA and by a part of comprador/egocentric elites of Europe made in Middle East states since 2000s. This is supported by the sabotage inside the Europe by not resisting to redudnant emigrants and them not be controled good. Also poverty in Eastern states is supported by the sames - as capitalistic regimes allow nations to be robed by them. Capitalism is antinational and antihumanistic as it's based on individualism - it's just economical banditism, which is partly supressed near the ones who robs others as those need a place to live to have some protection and some technology development somewhere.

    while that girl is just a clown to distruct the attention from real reasons. also she represents a hysterical image of antihumanistic propaganda. if those who have power cared much about climate they'd arised energy efficiency, developed and used more modern technologies, made products which worked longer, did not supported idiotic approch "buy new stuff regularly even when you do not need it really". the main aim is to reduce mass production for the reasons said above
    Last edited by Sol; 09-26-2019 at 08:33 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    So it was just my turn to hear your dissatisfaction with forum modding. heh You didn't mind my modding too much when I helped you out by moving threads, deleting posts and issuing a warning. Let's keep mod complaints to the right subforum.
    where is the right sub-forum?

    I never asked of splitting a thread. I asked that only one, the first of a series of very nasty threads, was closed, after some mod had split it. then "you"'ve split even other threads, so that means that you saw the shit that was going on and never took any measure. just a reminder, what was going on in there was heavy insulting, libel, harassment, threatening. bullying. which is against the forum rules, right?

    then one calls a trans "he" and the mods are suddenly righteous.

    you need a reality check sometime, you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    where is the right sub-forum?

    I never asked of splitting a thread. I asked that only one, the first of a series of very nasty threads, was closed, after some mod had split it. then "you"'ve split even other threads, so that means that you saw the shit that was going on and never took any measure. just a reminder, what was going on in there was heavy insulting, libel, harassment, threatening. bullying. which is against the forum rules, right?

    then one calls a trans "he" and the mods are suddenly righteous.

    you need a reality check sometime, you know.
    I deleted the thread you asked to be deleted. There are several mods here so I do not know what I may have split. I was not there when you were being attacked later and the dog comment was made but I warned the person when I returned and saw it had been reported.. I am not sure why you think you can get right in the middle of conflict with forum members and say just as nasty things back to them then get indignant because something isn't done about it. If you want your complaint to be taken seriously maybe don't go off on the people you believe are harassing you? I am not going to bring up what you did but your hands aren't exactly clean. Happy we can provide mutual reality checks.

    You must not realize that both sides were attacking and reporting each other about the trans issue. No one was innocent. If you have more to say about mods post it there but read the rules first concerning mod decisions. Not sure where people get the idea that mods read every single post.
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ite-Discussion

    If you have a problem with a post specifically then report it and a mod will look at it and decide what if anything should be done. Do not post complaints about specific forum members at the link above.

    A list of mods can be found here. If you feel you are not getting help from one then you can try another.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showgroups.php

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  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    it's a kind of war and a stick of USA against European states.
    I completely agree that the USA is mostly to blame for the refugee crisis. The UK and France also, to a smaller extent, as well as some of the other NATO countries. I think they're the ones who should be dealing with it, not Austria or Sweden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Regarding Greta's transportation: She would have been called a hypocrite if she'd taken a plane, even if it was an empty seat on a plane already making a flight. Voting with our money is a common way of showing what we support...and what we don't. Paying for the seat, would mean supporting flying. Accepting a free seat would have meant advertising for flying.
    ...As is, she took a solar powered zero carbon emission yacht. Presumably to show that zero carbon transportation across the world is a legitimate possibility. As for the train use, high speed rails are more energy efficient than planes. It might be slower, and more personally expensive than a plane, but it trades the convenience of fast and cheap for the convenience of using that time in productive as well as relaxive ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    All of that is just perception and appearances. Which is why I called it a stunt. It's about looking good, and it's not about actually being rational. How much energy was used in the manufacture of her boat? It can't be recycled either. . . Silly stuff like that people can still nitpick and they'd technically be right about it, so might as well do something that doesn't actually create additional waste and is already headed the same way. Unless you're running an emotional campaign which is all about getting people on your side. If you want to really avoid waste, arrange not to be there in person, but via video or something. . . but that just wouldn't have the same emotional impact would it?

    Edit: Sigh, politics politics, it's all politics.
    She will always be nitpicked by her political "opposites". The only reason why people care anything about her is because she is apparently "liberal" because she has taken up on climate issues (even though we don't really know her political stance).

    But climate issues are neither left nor right. In non-Western countries, conservatives also take up on climate issues. Or some liberals become anti-climate change conspiracy theorists. Climate change didn't became a dividing political issue.

    So indeed, it's all politics. And see how rational and logical all that really is? It ends with apparent logic and rationality, but it's all actually starting with emotions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @xerxe, that’s not really a convincing argument. Europe has enough weapons to kill everyone heading North.

    A better argument is that delaying climate change solutions will cost an exponentially greater amount of money, and if it isn’t dealt with soon, your granddaughter will be living in a garbage bag and eating her dog.
    Trump said that climate change was a hoax created by the Chinese. Now imagine how the Chinese conservatives will react to that.

    They will say, "Ridiculous! We did not create such a hoax! I will prove it to him that it has nothing to do with us, and it's all real!"

    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I'm not frowning at the threat, but I don't follow?
    I think he's saying that climate change will create more refugees.

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    @Aylen
    You say I've been as nasty as the ones who, for months, went on to: harass me, spread lies about me, insult me, wish my death, threaten of hurting me and the people in my real life... when my replies were usually ignoring their insults and never went beyond calling them "delusional", "ass", or, godforgiveme, "shit". Fuck that. Do you really think this is a fair judgement of yours, a reality check?

    If you want your complaint to be taken seriously maybe don't go off on the people you believe are harassing you?
    If a gang of people assaults you, do you become guilty if you defend yourself?! Mad.

    I've thanked the mods for closing the first split thread in May, a very nasty thread that they had allowed to open. I've never asked anything to anyone anymore, if not to remove a pvt picture that a member decided it was cool to make public.

    3 times, other members, not me, requested that the insults of a a particular member were deleted. The vast majority of the insulting posts were made into split threads though, i.e. the moderators knew and allowed what was going on.


    But back to the initial point: you say that, in my case, the nasty things were exchanged mutually, and that, in the other thread, you deleted the transphobic comments and others for they were mutually offending...confirming that you decided to moderate the comments about gender identity, rather than the plain bullying ones.

    I was acknowledging this, not making a fuss about the lack of proper moderation of this forum, which I know very well is not all your fault (and that you're probably the most committed mod around), but if you care to go through the whole story again, at least don't tell me I can't complain. I can and should have done it before.

  32. #112
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    I watched her speech to the U.N. She came across as emotionally unhinged, even possessed. As a result, I believe she is mentally disturbed (clinically) and do not think it is reasonable to assign a type to her - notwithstanding that the brain develops quite rapidly at her age. All I could say with confidence that she is an iNtutive, and based on her dialogue - heavy on reciting facts and data, with little concern to form some logic connecting the points together, instead she relied on emotion - I would say probably Te/Fi valuing, but weak Fi, hence the awkwardness. So ILI or LIE are plausible guesses. But I must stress that we cannot come to a conclusion at this stage.

    Her supporters are in a difficult situation. Even the French government, which is quite left-wing, has already found her ignorant moralism insufferable...so you cannot have it both ways: if you want to give Greta the platform and the publicity of an adult, she and her ideas will be subject to the same scrutiny, and the consequences they entail, however uncomfortable that may be.

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    She is being compared to Jesus, called the savior and light of the world, and I quote this verbatim...from Sarah Silverman Nonetheless, such comparisons create a burden of expectations as well as caressing the ego of a child. She is projecting her own personal strife onto society, but I think the pressure of this will destroy her within a decade. She is being used as a sacrificial lamb by her parents and the media to incite fear and hysteria.

    P.S. If anyone wants to understand what is actually happening to our climate, I am happy to explain.

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    Based on her facial expressions, a friend of mine compared her to one of the children in Game of Thrones:



    How ironic, for today all the indoctrinated schoolchildren were to go out on a "climate strike", but as Fate had it, we had an unseasonal snowfall, they all got cold fingers and toes and scurried back home to bed!

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    Last edited by Simo; 09-27-2019 at 04:14 AM.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    If things actually change, for the better, based on her speeches and actions wouldn't everybody win?
    No, you can't have winners without losers even if we don't care about the losers they still exist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    No, you can't have winners without losers even if we don't care about the losers they still exist
    Nah, you definitely can get win-win situations. That is, for example, cooperation is clearly a "natural" behavior that evolved to benefit every party involved, more or less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesn View Post
    Nah, you definitely can get win-win situations. That is, for example, cooperation is clearly a "natural" behavior that evolved to benefit every party involved, more or less.
    Well yeah the parties involved wins but someone else loses
    For example if two companies cooperated to make a new product and that product was a success both companies wins but their win means their competitors get less customers and profits thus the competitors lose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    Well yeah the parties involved wins but someone else loses
    For example if two companies cooperated to make a new product and that product was a success both companies wins but their win means their competitors get less customers and profits thus the competitors lose
    Still, let's take a look at the situation of non-controlled global warming: some may survive, but extinction is possible. Survival will either result in conditions similar to Fallout or will take us several centuries back (we may never develop this much again, actually). Some may benefit from fossil fuels for now, but eighty years later they (and their descendants) may be as well dead because of their actions, and despite spurious immediate profits.

    If we go extinct, we all lose; if life goes extinct (excluding some very simple forms), and with the (pretty high) possibility advanced organisms are just an evolutionary fluke (1/x chance that may not happen again), it is a lose-lose situation. The whole concept of winning and losing is a quasi-objective human (a high IQ animal) concept and applies mainly to humans; we lose, nobody really wins. You make an assumption we have some competitors (by the way: we need closed systems to talk about losing and winning imo, but that's another thing; in the companies case, you should assume that the market ~doesn't grow, there is no way the loser company can benefit, and the "watching period" is finite), the reality can be more gray.

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    Tl;dr global warming sucks, please do something, this is bad.

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