View Poll Results: Did Jeffrey Epstein kill himself?

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  • Yes, he was a pedophile and he didn't want to get tortured in prison

    1 12.50%
  • No, he was murdered because he had info on too many wealthy, powerful people

    4 50.00%
  • He's still alive, they faked his death and now he's hiding

    1 12.50%
  • I am not sure, not enough information to know either way

    2 25.00%
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Thread: Did Jeffrey Epstein kill himself?

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    Default Did Jeffrey Epstein kill himself?

    Discuss.

    Right wing opinions:





    Left wing opinions:



    Last edited by Raver; 08-14-2019 at 02:49 AM.
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    I think he was pushed into killing himself and we will never hear the full story. Like House of Cards.

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    I don't buy it, it's just far too convenient for all the other elites that undoubtably took part in his sex trafficking. All the other details involved in this whole affair are just too fishy and once more very very convenient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
    I think he was pushed into killing himself and we will never hear the full story. Like House of Cards.
    I can see this as a likely possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    I don't buy it, it's just far too convenient for all the other elites that undoubtably took part in his sex trafficking. All the other details involved in this whole affair are just too fishy and once more very very convenient.
    I generally agree with this. While, I'm keeping an open mind on the possibilities including him actually killing himself, I still lean towards him being murdered or a scenario to what Fina proposed. There's just too many holes involving his suicide and too many motives to have him murdered IMO.
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    I don't know anything about his death and I'm open to any possibility but in all the speculation I haven't seen anything about how much the death must have been looked into since he was a high profile person and ideas like this were bound to be an issue. Guess it doesn't matter if investigators are paid off and whatnot but I think it's a relevant thing to consider and haven't seen it mentioned. (To be fair, I haven't exposing myself)

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    I think any of these are possible:
    (1) He killed himself by his own arrangement
    (2) He was forced/cornered into killing himself and was provided with the assistance to do so
    (3) He was murdered and had no hand in his own death

    Regardless of which is true, there's corruption that needs to be investigated. At minimum, guards/the warden were paid off. I think it probably goes higher up than that. I don't have faith that the investigative processes will be free from corruption either. We will probably never know the truth of this.

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    America: the country of Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson... where politics revolves around the question of whether some guy diddled little kids. I'm I wrong that this isn't sustainable?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    America: the country of Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson... where politics revolves around the question of whether some guy diddled little kids. I'm I wrong that this isn't sustainable?!?
    I think Epstein himself is the least important aspect of all this. Not many care that he killed himself or got murdered as he was a reprehensible person given his past crimes, but many do wonder from both sides of the political spectrum about the numerous amount of wealthy and powerful people (famous or not) who he did know well and did similar things under his watch that we'll likely never find out about because he killed himself or got murdered.
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    So, I was talking with a Trump supporter who believes that Hillary Clinton killed Epstein to cover up her involvement in Pizzagate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I think Epstein himself is the least important aspect of all this. Not many care that he killed himself or got murdered as he was a reprehensible person given his past crimes, but many do wonder from both sides of the political spectrum about the numerous amount of wealthy and powerful people (famous or not) who he did know well and did similar things under his watch that we'll likely never find out about because he killed himself or got murdered.
    yeah, I'll go there with you.
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    I can understand and appreciate! an emotional response opposed to indignation on behalf of a powerful pedo. It was my first reaction too. I'm lacking either the information or the Fi for the corresponding level of confidence in an opinion.

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    The plot thickens. Basically, the Epstein autopsy reveals that he had broken bones in his neck, which is more typical of foul play rather than a suicide. On top of that, the bodyguard when interviewed by a journalist admits that Epstein likely had "help" in his suicide before becoming afraid and aware that he could not continue the interview longer because of possible dangers:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/us/je...eck/index.html

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...-old-boss.html

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    I've been saying it for literally years to anyone who either a)bought me a few drinks or b)asked me for the cold harsh truth. Truth is, we're ruled by kiddy diddling straight up Satan worshiping assholes. Think about it, how else would you keep a gaggle of extremely powerful sociopaths from tearing each other apart at the first opportunity? Global pedo ring fits the bill nicely. Now suppose one of the key figures somehow, in spite of long odds given the amount of corruption and control we'd logically expect if we're in the late stages of some grand plan by those fuckers, somehow gets nabbed by the good guys.

    They don't wanna let him go, but damn, he's offering to sing like a canary crossed with a fat female opera performer. The taste is bad, but the "health benefits" are more than worth it. The other side is now in a catch-22. Let him live and he sings, dooming the whole operation right then and there. Kill him now in a very obvious fashion and the operation can continue, but you've basically just done a second Kennedy assassination. The very INSTANT this happens again (and it will, because sociopaths) you'll have triggered an uprising.

    Hell, why you think Trump ain't dead yet? Instant he dies in a way that can in any way be construed as unnatural and, well, this board is full of people pushing 130+ IQ's. Y'all can make a pretty damn prophetic account of what happens after that .

    Also, I'll point out that faking his death has the same effect as killing him in this instance. If the public thinks he got "Arkansided" then there's little material difference. He's alive, he's dead, doesn't matter in the ultimate scheme of things. The people will now believe a thing the elite would rather they not for reasons they do not yet know given how disconnected they are from us. I'll put it this way, they've blown their proverbial load on this. Another will come forward soon, and then they will either have to drop the mask or let that pawn sing. Either way, even the most boomer of boomers won't be able to deny what's going on without becoming a suspect.
    Last edited by End; 08-16-2019 at 07:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    The plot thickens. Basically, the Epstein autopsy reveals that he had broken bones in his neck, which is more typical of foul play rather than a suicide. On top of that, the bodyguard when interviewed by a journalist admits that Epstein likely had "help" in his suicide before becoming afraid and aware that he could not continue the interview longer because of possible dangers:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/us/je...eck/index.html

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...-old-boss.html

    Yeah, I think it's becoming more probable that he had some kind of helping hand. Although, it's still possible that he could have arranged for this rather than it being murder. Logistically, it would have been pretty difficult to get the job done by himself, within 15-30 minutes (assuming they were indeed checking on him), and within a pretty sparse cell without anything to hang from, really.

    Hearing that he was attending 12-hour meetings with his lawyers and was reportedly optimistic bordering delusional prior to his death makes me think that it's more likely he was taken by surprise though.

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    Hardly anyone believes the official story. Everyone knows he was either murdered or had help — but it doesn’t matter, because nothing’s going to change. The FBI won’t find a thing; at most, some prison guard will take the fall.

    Imagine if this had happened in Russia. American media would be screeching about how once again Russian oligarchs had assasinated someone; how the death was obviously murder, and so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I've been saying it for literally years to anyone who either a)bought me a few drinks or b)asked me for the cold harsh truth. Truth is, we're ruled by kiddy diddling straight up Satan worshiping assholes. Think about it, how else would you keep a gaggle of extremely powerful sociopaths from tearing each other apart at the first opportunity? Global pedo ring fits the bill nicely. Now suppose one of the key figures somehow, in spite of long odds given the amount of corruption and control we'd logically expect if we're in the late stages of some grand plan by those fuckers, somehow gets nabbed by the good guys.

    They don't wanna let him go, but damn, he's offering to sing like a canary crossed with a fat female opera performer. The taste is bad, but the "health benefits" are more than worth it. The other side is now in a catch-22. Let him live and he sings, dooming the whole operation right then and there. Kill him now in a very obvious fashion and the operation can continue, but you've basically just done a second Kennedy assassination. The very INSTANT this happens again (and it will, because sociopaths) you'll have triggered an uprising.

    Hell, why you think Trump ain't dead yet? Instant he dies in a way that can in any way be construed as unnatural and, well, this board is full of people pushing 130+ IQ's. Y'all can make a pretty damn prophetic account of what happens after that .

    Also, I'll point out that faking his death has the same effect as killing him in this instance. If the public thinks he got "Arkansided" then there's little material difference. He's alive, he's dead, doesn't matter in the ultimate scheme of things. The people will now believe a thing the elite would rather they not for reasons they do not yet know given how disconnected they are from us. I'll put it this way, they've blown their proverbial load on this. Another will come forward soon, and then they will either have to drop the mask or let that pawn sing. Either way, even the most boomer of boomers won't be able to deny what's going on without becoming a suspect.
    Every day it looks like George Carlin was more and more right!



    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Hardly anyone believes the official story. Everyone knows he was either murdered or had help — but it doesn’t matter, because nothing’s going to change. The FBI won’t find a thing; at most, some prison guard will take the fall.

    Imagine if this had happened in Russia. American media would be screeching about how once again Russian oligarchs had assasinated someone; how the death was obviously murder, and so on.
    Yeah, there is a clear double standard from the media and people in general that unabashedly accept that there are Russian and Chinese oligarchies, but the idea of an American/Western European, etc oligarchy is seen as conspiratorial. It is like people's brains shut down when the idea that their democracy is an illusion to an extent comes to fruition. Naturally, corporate owned media is a part of that so they will only propagate whatever their agenda entails IMO.
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    I don't understand why the guy was put in jail in the first place. I mean, in countries such as Afghanistan, it's a well respected tradition to sell 14 year old girls and then have sex with them. It's been like that for thousands of years, but somehow we think that our recently invented social norms are ethically self-evident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I don't understand why the guy was put in jail in the first place. I mean, in countries such as Afghanistan, it's a well respected tradition to sell 14 year old girls and then have sex with them. It's been like that for thousands of years, but somehow we think that our recently invented social norms are ethically self-evident.

    ^^^ Ti-PoLR of work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Every day it looks like George Carlin was more and more right!


    I know that people like to quote George Carlin, and it's pretty obvious why, but being as cynical as he was becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy past a certain point. Elites love it when people become apathetic and pessimistic about change, and oppressive social systems nurture exactly this kind of inaction by design. When you become apathetic, you're doing the elite's dirty work for them.

    Our governments aren't even remotely the worst in history—the French revolution succeeded in dethroning a nearly millennium-old dictatorship whose tentacles penetrated nearly every crevice of French society. We have somewhat more pliable institutions that can be taken over.
    Last edited by xerxe; 08-16-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I don't understand why the guy was put in jail in the first place. I mean, in countries such as Afghanistan, it's a well respected tradition to sell 14 year old girls and then have sex with them. It's been like that for thousands of years, but somehow we think that our recently invented social norms are ethically self-evident.

    ^^^ Ti-PoLR of work.
    Slavery was seen as normal in recent American history and in many past civilizations, but now it is clearly abhorrent. The same applies to underage sex. Technically, we aren't adults until 25 mentally so 18 as the age of consent plus some flexibility for those a few years apart from each other is a good middle ground between the two extremes.


    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I know that people like to quote George Carlin, and it's pretty obvious why, but being as cynical as he was becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy past a certain point. Elites love it when people become apathetic and pessimistic about change, and oppressive social systems nurture exactly this kind of inaction by design. When you become apathetic, you're doing the elite's dirty work for them.

    Our governments aren't even remotely the worst in history—the French revolution succeeded in dethroning a nearly millennium-old dictatorship whose tentacles penetrated nearly every crevice of French society. We have somewhat pliable institutions that can be taken over.
    Agreed, if everyone feels apathetic then that gives the elites more power. That is why left wing or right wing populism is often demonized by the media as socialist/communist or fascist respectively because it goes against their interests. While, neoliberal and neoconservative corporate policies are pushed IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I've been saying it for literally years to anyone who either a)bought me a few drinks or b)asked me for the cold harsh truth. Truth is, we're ruled by kiddy diddling straight up Satan worshiping assholes. Think about it, how else would you keep a gaggle of extremely powerful sociopaths from tearing each other apart at the first opportunity? Global pedo ring fits the bill nicely. Now suppose one of the key figures somehow, in spite of long odds given the amount of corruption and control we'd logically expect if we're in the late stages of some grand plan by those fuckers, somehow gets nabbed by the good guys.

    They don't wanna let him go, but damn, he's offering to sing like a canary crossed with a fat female opera performer. The taste is bad, but the "health benefits" are more than worth it. The other side is now in a catch-22. Let him live and he sings, dooming the whole operation right then and there. Kill him now in a very obvious fashion and the operation can continue, but you've basically just done a second Kennedy assassination. The very INSTANT this happens again (and it will, because sociopaths) you'll have triggered an uprising.

    Hell, why you think Trump ain't dead yet? Instant he dies in a way that can in any way be construed as unnatural and, well, this board is full of people pushing 130+ IQ's. Y'all can make a pretty damn prophetic account of what happens after that .

    Also, I'll point out that faking his death has the same effect as killing him in this instance. If the public thinks he got "Arkansided" then there's little material difference. He's alive, he's dead, doesn't matter in the ultimate scheme of things. The people will now believe a thing the elite would rather they not for reasons they do not yet know given how disconnected they are from us. I'll put it this way, they've blown their proverbial load on this. Another will come forward soon, and then they will either have to drop the mask or let that pawn sing. Either way, even the most boomer of boomers won't be able to deny what's going on without becoming a suspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Every day it looks like George Carlin was more and more right!



    Yeah, there is a clear double standard from the media and people in general that unabashedly accept that there are Russian and Chinese oligarchies, but the idea of an American/Western European, etc oligarchy is seen as conspiratorial. It is like people's brains shut down when the idea that their democracy is an illusion to an extent comes to fruition. Naturally, corporate owned media is a part of that so they will only propagate whatever their agenda entails IMO.


    Clinton has not been accused of any specific sexual misconduct connected to Epstein. As for Trump: During the 2016 campaign, Trump was sued by an anonymous woman who claimed he raped her at an Epstein party when she was 13 years old. However, several journalists who dug into this allegation back then came away voicing caution or downright skepticism, and the accuser withdrew her lawsuit shortly before the election. [probably got paid to do so]

    So there hasn’t yet been corroboration of Epstein-related wrongdoing on Trump’s part by media outlets, or any accusation against Clinton at all.

    But there was much speculation that other influential figures could be implicated in Epstein’s crime. Julie Brown, a Miami Herald investigative reporter who has covered Epstein’s case intensively, said on MSNBC that “there are probably quite a few important people, powerful people, who are sweating it out right now.”

    Epstein’s connections to Trump

    By Trump’s own description, his social relationship with Epstein started several decades ago, in the late 1980s.Describing Epstein toLandon Thomas Jr. of New York magazine for a 2002 profile, Trump made a comment that, in retrospect, was frighteningly on-the-nose:

    “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”


    That is: Trump praised Epstein, dated their social relationship as beginning around 1987, said they shared a taste for “beautiful” women, and specifically noted that Epstein liked women “on the younger side.”

    Since Epstein’s legal troubles became known, Trump’s attorneys have tried to downplay his association with Epstein. (“He had no relationship with Mr. Epstein and had no knowledge whatsoever of his conduct,” Trump lawyer Alan Garten told Politico in 2017.)

    But even beyond Trump’s own words further up, there’s a good deal of evidence that the two were friendly social acquaintances at least through the early 2000s:


    • Media reports from the late 1990s and early 2000s frequently mention Trump attending Epstein-hosted social events, and Epstein attending events at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club.
    • “Friends and associates” of the pair told the Washington Post that Epstein and Trump “had socialized for years, drawn together by a mix of money, women and power.”
    • NBC News recently aired a video from 1992 of Trump and Epstein together at a Mar-a-Lago party, discussing women and laughing together.
    • The New York Times reported that, according to businessman George Houraney, Trump asked him to organize a “calendar girl” party at Mar-a-Lago — and said he and Epstein would be the only men in attendance.
    • The New York Times also reported that Epstein has claimed to people that he introduced Donald Trump to Melania — though this hasn’t been corroborated.
    • Trump called Epstein twice in November 2004, according to message pads seized from Epstein’s Florida mansion by the government.
    • Several phone numbers for Trump, including an emergency contact and a number for Trump’s security, were among many notable people’s numbers listed in Epstein’s “black book” (which was later obtained by the government).
    • Epstein’s brother Mark testified that Epstein once took Trump on one of his planes to go from Florida to New York, saying he thought it happened in the late 1990s. Mark Epstein also told the Post Trump flew on Epstein’s plane “numerous times.”
    • At some point around the time of Epstein’s legal problems, the friendship appears to have ended. Trump has spread the story that he banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago for making sexual advances to a masseuse. However, the New York Times reported that by some accounts the two men only fell out “after a failed business arrangement between them.” The Washington Post reports that they were rival bidders for the same Palm Beach estate (Trump won).

    “I knew him like everybody in Palm Beach knew him,” President Trump said recently. “I had a falling out with him a long time ago, I don’t think I’ve spoken to him for 15 years, I wasn’t a fan.”

    Trump’s name has also come up in legal wrangling around Epstein — albeit for very different reasons.

    The 2009 subpoena: In 2009, Brad Edwards, an attorney who has represented various Epstein victims, had Trump served with a subpoena for testimony in a case against Epstein.

    But Edwards is not alleging any wrongdoing from Trump; rather, the opposite. He said in a recent interview that he had served subpoenas on many connected people in 2009, and that Trump was “the only person who picked up the phone and said, ‘Let’s just talk. I’ll give you as much time as you want.’”

    Edwards added that Trump “was very helpful, in the information that he gave,” calling it “good information that checked out and that helped us.” And, he said, Trump “gave no indication whatsoever that he was involved in anything untoward whatsoever.”

    Virginia Roberts’s lawsuit: In 1999, 16-year-old Virginia Roberts worked as a spa attendant at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort. It was there, she says, that Epstein’s girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell recruited her to give massages to Epstein at his house. But Roberts (who now goes by Virginia Giuffre) hasn’t accused Trump of any wrongdoing, and her previous status as a Mar-a-Lago employee is the only connection to Trump.

    The Katie Johnson lawsuit: This is the only accusation against Trump for Epstein-related wrongdoing. An anonymous woman sued Trump in 2016, claiming that in 1994, he violently raped her at an orgy hosted by Epstein. She said she was 13 years old at the time, and accused Epstein of raping her as well. She first filed suit in California under the name “Katie Johnson,” and when it was thrown out there for technical reasons, she filed it in New York under “Jane Doe.”

    But many journalists were wary about this claim. There was no corroborating evidence offered (except for affidavits from two anonymous people claiming to have been told of or witnessed it), and the suit appeared “to have been orchestrated by an eccentric anti-Trump campaigner with a record of making outlandish claims about celebrities,” the Guardian’s Jon Swaine wrote. Jezebel’s Anna Merlan tried for some time to get to the bottom of what was going on and concluded in June 2016, “The facts speak less to a scandal and more, perhaps, to an attempt at a smear.”

    Trump himself said, “The allegations are not only categorically false, but disgusting at the highest level and clearly framed to solicit media attention or, perhaps, are simply politically motivated.”

    All that was before the Access Hollywood tape and before many women had spoken out publicly to accuse Trump of sexual assault. But even after that, the anonymity of “Katie Johnson” and the sketchiness of her associates kept mainstream US journalists wary about this accusation. She ended up withdrawing her lawsuit days before the 2016 election; her attorney Lisa Bloom said it was because she was getting death threats.


    https://www.vox.com/2019/7/9/2068634...p-bill-clinton
    and this article is from 2016:


    Trump has denied Jane Doe’s claims and his reps have said he barely knew Epstein—even though New York media in the ’90s regularly chronicled his comings-and-goings at Epstein’s Upper East Side palace, and even though Epstein had 14 private numbers for Trump and his family in his little black book. Meanwhile, Bill and Hillary Clinton have remained mum about their ties to the Palm Beach pedophile—despite evidence that shows Bill was one of the most famous and frequent passengers on Epstein’s “Lolita Express” and that Epstein donated money to the Clinton Foundation even after his conviction.

    For months, talking heads have wondered whether Trump would use Epstein and his girls as a weapon against Bill and Hillary Clinton.[Now, with the latest federal lawsuit against Trump himself, it seems the notorious financier has become a serious liability for both campaigns.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bi...illary-clinton

    Incidentally people his age (66?) have bones that are more fragile. Suicide without assistance, even with the injuries he had, is still plausible. I am waiting for more information as of now.

    My mom walked around with fractures on her back and neck for a long time before she finally collapsed. Now she is on hospice. It is surreal for my whole family but she is still hanging in there. I think she has some unfinished business before she can let go. She didn't think she was that fragile.

    I already told Raver how easy it is to strangle yourself and how quick (less than 15 minutes) with a sheet or article of clothing. I am not going to share details on how here but I know since someone close to me did it. If he was killed then really think about who has that kind of power in the US right now. It isn't the Clintons.


    FYI, don't attack my sources. I know where my biases are. For you fact checkers I added this.

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-beast/

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/nbc-news/

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  23. #23
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Agreed, if everyone feels apathetic then that gives the elites more power. That is why left wing or right wing populism is often demonized by the media as socialist/communist or fascist respectively because it goes against their interests. While, neoliberal and neoconservative corporate policies are pushed IMO.
    I agree with you, with the exception of right wing populism. Elites that resist at first are usually successful at co-opting it once it gains momentum or succeeds—elites are authoritarian by nature and so is right wing ideology.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    all people with big money are criminals. there are no good ways to get and keep power and big money when people who compete with you there have a possibility to play outside of common rules
    to kill someone is just one of ways to overcome "rules". there are no holly ones there

    rules are made to control people. but when you have power - you have more possibilities to avoid a control above you, you may break laws without negative consequences and you even need to do it, as your opponents ignore laws and common ethics. it's impossibly to win when you play with cheaters without your own cheating

    just remove from your heads what medias and education tells you about the world
    capitalism is criminal system in its essence. the higher you stay there - the lesser holly you are
    at best you allow others to have dirty hands and you use the money they allow you to have. when you directly rule by your bussiness deals - you must be a criminal or you'll fail
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I agree with you, with the exception of right wing populism. Elites that resist at first are usually successful at co-opting it once it gains momentum or succeeds—elites are authoritarian by nature and so is right wing ideology.
    Fair enough. However, I do think left wing populism can fall into a similar trap though. Both sides are capable of being co-opted into authoritarianism by the elites, just in different ways IMO.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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  26. #26
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Fair enough. However, I do think left wing populism can fall into a similar trap though. Both sides are capable of being co-opted into authoritarianism by the elites, just in different ways IMO.
    Left wing populism is founded on the worker movement, making it harder for business elites to co-opt. Left wingers can, however, be authoritarian in different ways once they're in power.
    Last edited by xerxe; 08-18-2019 at 06:49 AM.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I don't feel so weird admitting it was me who voted the first option. I thought Raver might have suspected due to our discord chat though.

    His lawyers want to keep getting paid as long and as much as possible for anything related to him so challenging the findings is no surprise. I wonder how his estate provides for that after his death.

    How the prison handled it and whether someone was paid to look the other way is a different matter. No big secret that prisons are places low on compassion. You kind of have to turn that part of you off to deal with it I imagine.

    Jeffrey Epstein Autopsy Results Show He Hanged Himself in Suicide
    The New York City chief medical examiner’s determination refutes conspiracy theories that he may have been murdered.

    The New York City medical examiner said on Friday that Jeffrey Epstein’s death in a federal jail cell was a suicide, confirming he had hanged himself.

    Mr. Epstein’s death had set off a wave of unfounded conspiracy theories, as people speculated online, without evidence, that he might have been killed to keep him from providing information to prosecutors about others in his social circle, including President Trump, former President Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew of Britain.

    But the chief medical examiner in New York City, Dr. Barbara Sampson, ruled out foul play. She released a terse statement saying that, after an autopsy and a “careful review of all investigative information,” she had determined the cause of Mr. Epstein’s death was “hanging” and the manner was “suicide.”

    Three of Mr. Epstein’s lawyers, Martin G. Weinberg, Reid Weingarten and Michael Miller, challenged the findings and vowed to conduct their own investigation.

    “We are not satisfied with the conclusions of the medical examiner,” said the lawyers, who had hired a private pathologist to observe the autopsy, in a statement. “We will have a more complete response in the coming days.”

    The medical examiner’s determination came six days after Mr. Epstein, 66, was found dead in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan, where he was awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges.
    Dr. Sampson, the medical examiner, said on Sunday night that her office had conducted an autopsy of Mr. Epstein but declined to release a determination about the cause of death. A city official said at the time that she wanted more information from law enforcement before releasing her determination. A private pathologist hired by Mr. Epstein’s lawyer observed the autopsy.

    On Thursday, an article in The Washington Post fueled further speculation when it reported that Mr. Epstein’s autopsy showed that he had a broken hyoid bone that could have been a sign of strangulation as well as of suicide by hanging.

    But Dr. Sampson and several experts cautioned against drawing conclusions, saying the broken bones were consistent with hanging, especially in an older man.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Witnesses report that he was in good spirits and had no intention of dying prior to the incident. Add to to this that very conveniently vigilance cameras malfunctioned, guards were told to leave post, and there was no physical way in his cell he could have hanged himself, it becomes apparent what probably happened; some brute got in, snapped his neck, and got away. Since the dude was an scumbag, nobody will miss him enough to do a throughrough investigation (but in any case, we still don't even know who killed kennedy...), but it's a pity because he could have implicated a lot of pedos that would potentially have gone down with him.

  29. #29
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Witnesses report that he was in good spirits and had no intention of dying prior to the incident.
    Exactly how I would act to get taken off suicide watch if I wanted to be free to kill myself especially in that situation. Acting otherwise would keep you on indefinite watch. Fe would be my tool of choice to get people to think I was fine.

    Also not related to him, suicide is a complicated issue. Not everyone shows signs. Most people think of depressed teens when you talk about suicide when it is white middle aged men who commit suicide at a higher rate (based on most stats) . Out of all the people I know who committed suicide only three were high risk with depression and/or previous attempts/threats.

    Most of the males I knew gave no indication they were going to do it at all. One male had tried and failed but after he got the all clear from the hospital he went home and finished what he started.


    Here's the reality: Suicide is incredibly difficult to predict. There are many reasons for that.

    In a piece for Big Think, Joseph Franklin, professor of psychology at Florida State University, writes that humans love explanations that are simple and universal. Though this way of thinking is often helpful, it doesn't translate when it comes to the topic of whether someone will commit suicide. In fact, Franklin's research on the topic showed that even when taking risk factors into account, the most trained experts are no better at predicting actual suicidality than "someone with no knowledge of the patient who predicted based on a coin flip."

    It would be easiest if there were incontrovertible proof that depression was the main cause of suicide, but human nature is far too complex for that. Though depression is the "leading causes of disability worldwide" according to the World Health Organization, not everyone who lives with it experiences suicidal ideation. Nor, according to experts, is depression by itself the main cause of suicide.

    There are also other factors at work. Many people who live with depression may not even know that they're experiencing symptoms of the disorder. And so many people try to push through the pain of depression with atypical symptoms — where the person appears fine to others — that is now colloquially known as smiling depression. Then there's the fact that despite long-held cultural beliefs about suicide, not all people who die by suicide telegraph their intentions to others. Nor are all suicides planned. Impulsivity and access to lethal means are also important factors that must be considered.

    https://www.upworthy.com/smiling-dep...hat-you-can-do
    https://www.nami.org/Blogs/NAMI-Blog...ssion%E2%80%9D
    Last edited by Aylen; 08-18-2019 at 04:27 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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