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Thread: Dualization

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    Default Dualization

    I think this is one of those aspects of socionics i have paid the absolute least attention to, it has just not been a goal for me. I suppose to mean that reaching some sort of dualization has never in itself been a goal of mine (while knowing about socionics for years now), but i see people here talk about it a lot, etc.

    What do we know about it? What are your personal experiences with it? Do you think it is a skin-deep process/phenomena? Thanks. (ETA: if admin wants to move this to 'general discussion' that's fine too, thanks).
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Dual relations are the least likely to have a clash of egos while working toward common objectives. Although striving for the same end-point, they'd likely not be interested in the same aspects of the work so by default, wouldn't metaphorically tread on each other's toes. They'd likely have very different perspectives and values in a complementary sense, which has the potential to create balance in a relationship - but could equally be a source of divisiveness if partners are not truly open to the opinions of others. However, a clash of egos can sometimes stimulate great things so duality isn't a panacea. An accumulation of skin-deep stuff is what usually destroys relationships. Type isn't really an issue amongst 20% of the population that have minimal personal baggage but is a necessary consideration when trying to understand and manage the 80% - type could likely be disregarded if both partners are in the 20% but what's the chance of that.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Dualization? More like Pooalization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Dual relations are the least likely to have a clash of egos while working toward common objectives. Although striving for the same end-point, they'd likely not be interested in the same aspects of the work so by default, wouldn't metaphorically tread on each other's toes. They'd likely have very different perspectives and values in a complementary sense, which has the potential to create balance in a relationship - but could equally be a source of divisiveness if partners are not truly open to the opinions of others. However, a clash of egos can sometimes stimulate great things so duality isn't a panacea. An accumulation of skin-deep stuff is what usually destroys relationships. Type isn't really an issue amongst 20% of the population that have minimal personal baggage but is a necessary consideration when trying to understand and manage the 80% - type could likely be disregarded if both partners are in the 20% but what's the chance of that.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yeah I think Socionics presents a catch-22 here. You want to be able to develop as a human being to be able to be healthy and self-sufficient on your own, so that you can attract a good dual finally and feel real magical dual "true love". But then once you reach that point, do you even need a dual anymore?

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    I find the high faith in duality in typology communities to be quite worrying. It seems to assume that you want one thing and one thing only from a relationship, which is not the case at all. Some may want a dual, some may want someone who is more similar to them in certain ways etc. I also believe it works better for certain type combinations than for others. It also seems to take personal preference completely out of the equation. LII male + ESE female seems to be the most common and successful dual pair.

    There are many things that factor in when it comes to initiating a relationship, than just Sociotype, such as: circumstances, background, opportunity, coincidence, interests, etc etc.

    I've personally had more experiences with semi-duals and activity types, and enjoyed them. One of my best friends is LSI, and I often seem to end up getting close to SEEs. SLE women are also quite uncommon (as are IEI males), so it's not often you stumble across them. One SLE girl did take an interest for me for a while though, and was quite up-front about it, but I was in the process of moving and had many other things going on in my life then, so I had to politely decline. She was cool though.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Well duality is a fact so it is not about faith. It is a bliss and very addictive and interesting because it's the only relationship that creates this complete functional compatibility. You have to experience it to know what it is. You have to have compatible subtype though.

    That doesn't mean that it's the best relationship though all things considered. Because the dual occupies and effectively prevents you from developing your weak spots independently it creates dependence and one-sidedness. That's also one reason why it feels so good but there is a downside to it. I just read Jung's criticism of duality and it's hard to disagree with him on this.

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    Yeah. I was around 100 % sure dominant SEI (there is no question about it ̣- so many things were going on etc). She wanted to normalize me and failed.
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    What I don't like in the idea of duality is that it sometimes is sold like you're incomplete without it, as in the old days were humans had two heads, four arms, and four legs but some god found this too powerful so he decided to take a sword and split them in two. They are now disminished, in a life long search for this missing other half. That's a take on soulmates I read somewhere, this concept has been around for long.
    I don't like the idea of being half a soul, incomplete, needing a [soulmate, dual] like it's some magic spell that rights everything. If it's what some people want, it's fine I guess.

    I'd rather dualize myself, the transcendent function interests me more than the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac tenebris View Post
    What I don't like in the idea of duality is that it sometimes is sold like you're incomplete without it, as in the old days were humans had two heads, four arms, and four legs but some god found this too powerful so he decided to take a sword and split them in two. They are now disminished, in a life long search for this missing other half. That's a take on soulmates I read somewhere, this concept has been around for long.
    I don't like the idea of being half a soul, incomplete, needing a [soulmate, dual] like it's some magic spell that rights everything. If it's what some people want, it's fine I guess.

    I'd rather dualize myself, the transcendent function interests me more than the rest.
    I rather see it as two people completing the same story from the opposite end.

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    I have only met two people whom I assume to be my duals, and both times they supported me in advancing my position in life. Both in work & at leisure, we have strengths that complement each other, find each other interesting, hilarious at times, share common values (like hard work & customer service), have the same types of friends, share the same activities, and basically can do anything we want without disturbing each other or others around us. It's an enlightening time that I think is beneficial for everybody, so I think everyone should be so lucky to find their duals at least once in their lifetime.. once you experience it, you can find what you're looking for from then on.

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    Hm, I have had really good activity relations though, how does that compare to duality, is it not almost just as good? My activity relations have developed alot faster as well. Because of this SLI has crept up into becoming my favorite kind of person. I have not yet met one I do not get along with outside of the one that raised me, and I've met at least 9 that I distinctly remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I rather see it as two people completing the same story from the opposite end.
    I only ever feel stuck in other's story.
    If I ever accept someone in my life, it will be because they feel like an extra, not a completion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Hm, I have had really good activity relations though, how does that compare to duality, is it not almost just as good? My activity relations have developed alot faster as well. Because of this SLI has crept up into becoming my favorite kind of person. I have not yet met one I do not get along with outside of the one that raised me, and I've met at least 9 that I distinctly remember.
    Being raised by a person makes it easier to get along with others of their type, especially if the others are improved versions of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Being raised by a person makes it easier to get along with others of their type, especially if the others are improved versions of them.
    Hm, I don't notice much about how being raised by SLI affects my relations with other SLI. My relation being raised with SLI was bad. And other's don't even remind me of him at all. I do notice how well and fast my creative function is received and that contributes to making me feel real appreciated for just being the way I am. Not much effort require to impress I guess. Essientially the tihng I like doing the most is the thing they like to see the most, and vice versa. So it works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac tenebris View Post
    What I don't like in the idea of duality is that it sometimes is sold like you're incomplete without it, as in the old days were humans had two heads, four arms, and four legs but some god found this too powerful so he decided to take a sword and split them in two. They are now disminished, in a life long search for this missing other half. That's a take on soulmates I read somewhere, this concept has been around for long.
    I don't like the idea of being half a soul, incomplete, needing a [soulmate, dual] like it's some magic spell that rights everything. If it's what some people want, it's fine I guess.

    I'd rather dualize myself, the transcendent function interests me more than the rest.
    Well duality makes you complete together but only by complementing each other. You are still as incomplete as an individual. Its pretty clear that we have this weak side that needs to be dealt with. Like it or not. Thats why we can see duality happening between people. Doing it yourself without a dual is the more mature and ambitious way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    What do we know about it?
    In the sense of functions - it's rising to the consciousness and development of weak functions.
    Since Jung, this process was part of psychotherapy where types were understood as pathological psyche accentuations. Where conscious processing of unconscious content was the main part of psychotherapy with psychoanalyzis approach of Freud and his followers as Jung.

    What adds Socionics is the idea that people of duality types are good for you. For example, they may help in this process of dualization. They teach to pay attention to weak regions and effectively be active there. One of consequences of this is better emotional state of inspiration and the feeling of inner harmony. Also duals may help by taking care about your weak functions regions, as they are better than you there often. Part of this care is teaching you to care about those regions yourself - by giving you advices and showing own behavior as an example to copy, for example.

    A human may try to develop weak functions without a dual, but this is harder alike would be to study something by yourself without a teacher. The best study process for weak regions goes in close friendship or love of duals, where people are tuned, concentrated the most on personalities of each other and trust the most to copy each other. In love relations a consciousness may feel alike you start to feel and see the life alike other human does this - a high compassion exists, borders between peoples minds become thiner, minds unite, - people perceive each other as equal parts of One, they share one life, interests of other one become same as your own, - thoughts, emotions, sensations become same for both.

    Instinctively people are attracted to the ones who may support them in weak functions. In the same time, they see those as able to accept them as a support for them. They see those people as adult and kids in the same time, as partners or pairs for important equal exchange.

    The main accent of classical Socionics is not dualization, like what was at Jung. But more a share of duties on strong functions of people, where duals are seen as best complementary fiting to this - to cover all range of functions in a cooperation, as all functions are equally important for the life. Also duals are said as most pleasant people to deal with in a friendship and a marriage. This approach is closer to MBT than to Jung.

    > What are your personal experiences with it?

    When I communicate with dual/semidual as a friend which has emotional interest to me, I then may notice more ideas and perceptions which relate to own weak regions. Also more of conscious control over weak functions and some reducing of the type may make me to feel better - an inspiration, more assurance in myself, lesser of doubts and negative emotions. Also better attention on own superid may make more clear the wish of geting support there, including from that human.

    As one of examples. When I had years of feelings to ESI girl in my school class I felt something alike, and I had her image in my heart. She, her being near, seeing her, her smiling to me - gave me higher self-assurance and emotional inspiration. When she accidentally went away to other school I've got a couple of years of depressive state, as lacked the emotions she allowed me to feel. We did not communicated significantly due to age before relations between sexes appear near 14 yo. But she had significant influence on me. Mb we'd could become a pair on all life, if she'd did not gone or I'd was wiser to try establish our friendship later.

    > Do you think it is a skin-deep process/phenomena?

    mind-deep deals much with the unconsciousness
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Well I can tell you guys this.

    There was one IEI I really connected with. He called me up 3 years after we'd last briefly dated and had seen each other and he told me, "Don't you think we have a special connection, like a sort of destiny with each other?" I'm still trying to see him again to this day.

    With another IEI (and some others) they've expressed how much they appreciated our connection.

    With another IEI where we didn't share mutual languages, we used Google Translate to communicate and fucked multiple times within the first 48 hours of talking to one another.

    So I'm not really biased against male IEIs lol, @Armalite . And I'm probably not Cluster-B, I just have a far more interesting life than you do, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    @Armalite . And I'm probably not Cluster-B, I just have a far more interesting life than you do, sorry.
    Since you bother engaging in petty arguments online I doubt your life is very interesting. Blocked. Bye!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Being raised by a person makes it easier to get along with others of their type, especially if the others are improved versions of them.
    Is this why I've interacted with so many Betas and been so disappointed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Is this why I've interacted with so many Betas and been so disappointed?
    Were you raised by Betas?

    My LSE mother hated her IEI sister and IEI niece. She criticized them constantly and tried to make us adopt her opinions. Personally, I liked my IEI cousin much better than my Alpha cousins who, in turn, always seemed to me to be like alien imposters in the extended family.

    Unspoken family values screw you up by giving you a set of assumptions that are right for them and probably not right for you. Plus, because they are unspoken, it is harder to understand that they even exist.

    Just start hanging out with Deltas and with Duals in particular. I predict that your life will smooth out.

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    toxic people are in every quadra, under any type.

    I grew up with my LIE bestie, a lonely child who's followed me in all my activities until the age of 23. my mum (SLI) never ever liked her, nor did my granma (ESI), and they'd tell me all the time since I was 6 how her presence would make me worse, more negative, more rude, more idgaf about the world, which was true, but I liked her, she followed me everywhere. around 8 though I already wanted to break free from her constant presence, and tried to get a new group of friends, where she later joined in, lol... growing up, when she followed me in my same hs, we got to hang with the same friends, and it was painful that all of her friends were talking shit behind her back with me... at 23 I realized on my skin how toxic of a person she was, for real. she cut me out of her life after my bf, a friend we had in common, cheated on me, and I made a big mess because she knew and never told me, and then came to my side to say how sorry she was, fk u btch. I didn't want to see him anymore, and shouted incredibly rude things to his way, and he forgave me later, I forgave him (we still chat sometimes) while her answer was "you shouldn't have said those things to him, btch" LOL

    (actually I suspect it was a big excuse from her part to avoid me since she owed me 100 E).

    some duals make your life worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Is this why I've interacted with so many Betas and been so disappointed?
    deltas have more chance to feel problems with betas quickly. to be disappointed means you changed the perception to negative from relatively positive. in case most of those were betas indeed

    you had LSI, now EII. ESI is close and may fit to what you say. they having weak N have higher possibility to be dissapointed in people than Ne types
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Were you raised by Betas?

    My LSE mother hated her IEI sister and IEI niece. She criticized them constantly and tried to make us adopt her opinions. Personally, I liked my IEI cousin much better than my Alpha cousins who, in turn, always seemed to me to be like alien imposters in the extended family.

    Unspoken family values screw you up by giving you a set of assumptions that are right for them and probably not right for you. Plus, because they are unspoken, it is harder to understand that they even exist.

    Just start hanging out with Deltas and with Duals in particular. I predict that your life will smooth out.
    Beta NF parents and Gamma grandparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armalite View Post
    Since you bother engaging in petty arguments online I doubt your life is very interesting. Blocked. Bye!
    Arguing is the spice of life. Some people take their spaghetti with just noodles, no sauce, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Well duality makes you complete together but only by complementing each other. You are still as incomplete as an individual. Its pretty clear that we have this weak side that needs to be dealt with. Like it or not. Thats why we can see duality happening between people. Doing it yourself without a dual is the more mature and ambitious way to go.
    I like the night sky with all its little stars much more then the day sky with one close star keeping us from seeing the others... I find myself blinded by people often and need my distances back. There's no maturity nor ambition in my path, it stems from a need first and foremost, the need of a shit ton of alone time.
    My mistakes and shortcomings are part of me, what make me complete, I used to think otherwise and it didn't suit me. It's subjective stuff anyway.

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