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Thread: Si PoLr in ENTj and ENFj Misconceptions

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    Default Si PoLr in ENTj and ENFj Misconceptions

    I know there are many threads on this topic, I've read them, but there is something I need help understanding. This is mostly to do with my confusion with what Si is supposed to be in socionics.

    This is taken from Wikisocion:


    Introverted sensing () is an irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing.

    Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail.


    Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is the main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

    In contrast to extroverted sensing Se, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.
    In contrast to introverted intuition Ni, Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.
    Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.


    This line, in particular, stuck out to me.

    "The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure."

    This is generally seen as the function of aesthetic taste, how these sense perceptions affect a person internally. Si doms from what I read seem to be conscious of some consistency of bodily sensations, meaning they know when to take a break from work best or when they are coming down with an illness.

    Another description of Si is a momentary "here and now" leisurely approach to life.

    So what does it look like when you have Si as the vulnerable function?

    ENTjs dress like they're homeless? ENFjs are useless when it comes to practical day-to-day details? However, I don't disagree with this but I have a problem with it regardless since Si is actually used in a lot of things both of these types will likely engage in.

    ENFJs I think would care a great deal about aesthetics, however. If you have ever heard of the phrase "Beauty is pain", that sounds like an ENFj approach to aesthetics to me. I think its a pretty normal goal for an ENFj to want to be beautiful, not dress tacky or like a clown and be laughed at.


    Both of these types may join a gentlemen's club and/or become enthusiasts for whiskey, wine, cigars, or gourmet cooking. To these types this is not for the sake of leisure this is a way to network and/or show off their refined nature in some way. Both of these types can have quite refined tastes and a great sense of aesthetics, but it will be all learned painstakingly and for some Ni future goal, never for an Si enjoyment.



    What do you all think? Agree or disagree?

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    Si polr to me always seems like the person can't internally relax in a way, in LIE it comes off as more the person is too much of an overly assertive businessman douche and EIE it comes off as the person is kind of eternally insecure. You can complicate it more but that's how it basically comes across.

    They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do.


    That sounds more like an IP temperament trait than Si valuing in specific. Si-egos are actually often quite worldly... and will kind of passively aggressively want other people to morph into the demands of the external world even if they aren't directly bossy about it like a LSE or LIE would be. And they might be quite disappointed if another person can't adapt to the outside world good enough, but it's hard to see because they are very mediative like. I also think what you just said... anybody who isn't a moron understands that goals need to be intrinsically motivated no matter who you are or they are not going to work. So it's mostly NTR, with IPs mentally masturbating over the point.

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    my LIE bestie used to sew horripilant cosplay stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    So it's mostly NTR, with IPs mentally masturbating over the point.
    What do you mean by NTR?

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    NTR = Not type related.

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    Oh yes, I think I agree with you. I think its probably sufficient then to say that people with polr Si can't relax and may not tend to daily in the moment activities, for simplistically sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    my LIE bestie used to sew horripilant cosplay stuff
    Everyone needs a hobby

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Both eie and lie can enjoy aestetics for just the sake of it. Thats because aestetics is far broader than just Si.

    When we say that Si is about aestetics its just a hint, that needs to be more developed and specified. Its not a definition.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 08-03-2019 at 11:50 AM.

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    With respect to Si, when I'm not in my work costume, my SLI son tells me that I dress like a homeless person. Maybe it's because I typically dress in whatever is handy, and most of my non-work clothes were bought on trips or on impulse.

    I think my grandfather was LIE and my grandmother was ESI, because she VI's like an ESI and he VI's somewhere between LIE and SLE. I was sorting through her old photos and I ran across a pair of photos of him. She had written on one "Before" and on the other, "After". In the "Before" picture, he was wearing a suit and tie that had obviously been very well-tailored, and in the "After" picture, he was dressed for gardening in a wife-beater T-shirt and some ragged baggy pants that might have been held up by a rope belt. A very Eastern European peasant look. Very Czech.
    I think the pictures were taken twenty minutes apart, because he'd come home from work, change his clothes, and would head straight out to the garden to work until it got dark.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-03-2019 at 02:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    With respect to Si, when I'm not in my work costume, my SLI son tells me that I dress like a homeless person. Maybe it's because I typically dress in whatever is handy, and most of my non-work clothes were bought on trips or on impulse.
    I don’t think I’ve ever been compared to a homeless person, but my behavior re. clothing seems similar. I think on some level I like the idea of looking presentable, but ultimately I’m just not inclined to spend more than thirty seconds fussing about it. My wardrobe such as it is consists of monochromatic T-shirts, jeans, and shorts. And in the heat I wear Crocs — they’re confortable and easy to wear! I don’t brush my hair or fold my clothes properly, so they’re always wrinkled. And my clothes are generally a bit baggy.

    I wonder if there’s a meaningful difference in appearance-investment between Si PoLRs and people who have low valued Si.
    Gods and men name her Aphrodite...Cyprus-born, because she was born in wave-dashed Cyprus; and lover of smiles, because she emerged out of the genitals.

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    For me, Si PoLR is more about being out of touch and out of sync with the inner workings of my body as far as when I'm hungry, tired, ill, injured > my entire life, I've burned myself so frequently when removing things from a stove top/oven or washing my hands under hot water because my body takes an extra beat to realize that it's burning. WTF. I'll go an entire day and by the end of it, will have a scratch or scar or something I never felt happen.

    I also don't have that Si form of "empathy" that allows me to know to what degree someone else is "balanced" or "comfy" or "well" and so I feel kinda insecure when I have to cater and host other people, unaided and by myself. I'll definitely try very hard to make others feel comfortable by being hypervigilant in watching their body language (Se) but I'll be consistently doubting myself and worrying that I'm doing something inadequate. One thing I notice about ESEs and SEIs in particular is that I believe I make them uneasy because I will refuse their Si "empathy"; they'll want me to have a seat, put my feet up, sit back, stop pacing, have something to drink probably because they can tell I'm generally a hot ass mess and that I can't readily discern for myself when I need to do exactly what they suggest. And I tend to think that my refusal makes them feel uneasy themselves or disrupts their own Si. I dunno. @Tallmo have you ever experienced that before?

    As far as clothing, I don't like to look like a vagabond outside of the house--I think that's more of a mobilizing Se thing > at the very least, I like to look very smart, pulled together, like I'm on top of shit, like I got some power and success in my pocket; but as far as my own personal comfort, I prefer to wear high end athleisure when I have to run errands or be out and about. I really admire Si refinement and attention to detail; I'm good at noticing/critiquing it in others but not so good at trusting my own instincts regarding myself, even though I think it ultimately turns out alright. Push comes to shove, I just buy high quality, expensive stuff and pray that gets me over the threshhold in lieu of perfectly exquisite style. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I don’t think I’ve ever been compared to a homeless person, but my behavior re. clothing seems similar. I think on some level I like the idea of looking presentable, but ultimately I’m just not inclined to spend more than thirty seconds fussing about it. My wardrobe such as it is consists of monochromatic T-shirts, jeans, and shorts. And in the heat I wear Crocs — they’re confortable and easy to wear! I don’t brush my hair or fold my clothes properly, so they’re always wrinkled. And my clothes are generally a bit baggy.

    I wonder if there’s a meaningful difference in appearance-investment between Si PoLRs and people who have low valued Si.
    I can be quite off but people just have good time when they see me wearing shirt inside out and socks that come from different pair.. or when they see that I forgot my socks.. or shoe laces that are not tied.. or shoe soles that are about to come off.. or knit cap that is quite twisted.. or when I'm telling to LSI that my lab coat just increases my street cred.

    I wonder what is the tipping point between Si suggestive and PoLR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    One thing I notice about ESEs and SEIs in particular is that I believe I make them uneasy because I will refuse their Si "empathy"; they'll want me to have a seat, put my feet up, sit back, stop pacing, have something to drink probably because they can tell I'm generally a hot ass mess and that I can't readily discern for myself when I need to do exactly what they suggest. And I tend to think that my refusal makes them feel uneasy themselves or disrupts their own Si. I dunno. @Tallmo have you ever experienced that before?
    I don't think I have, but I don't really try to provide comfort to others either. Maybe ESE does it? I see it more as a secondary behaviour in SEI. They are interested in comfort/impressions so it makes sense to try to be more social about it, but often it's much more natural for SEI to not really do anything about it. Sensations just remain on the inside and nothing happens.

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    I think it's wrong that socionics presents polr as like this crippling, massive weak point. In reality it's more like something only the holder is insecure about, and Hidden Agenda makes up for it most of the time. We can choose how we interact with the world and choose to grow if we want lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think it's wrong that socionics presents polr as like this crippling, massive weak point. In reality it's more like something only the holder is insecure about, and Hidden Agenda makes up for it most of the time. We can choose how we interact with the world and choose to grow if we want lol.
    I think it's conveniant to many people to have a thing to blame if things don't go their way or they don't like doing something.

    About low unvalued Si, I find repulsive to be told stuff like: have a seat, want something to drink, etc... I don't know why, but it makes me want to go away, where whether I sit or stand doesn't matter and I don't have to care about this aspect of life, where it doesn't seem as if someone is trying to shove food in my face. It keeps me from knowing whether I need something or not.
    As a teen, I started thinking my body must have been made uncomfortable, which is also a sentence in EIE's Si PoLR description somewhere. I feel pain sharply, I have the impression of getting burnt way before the temperature is actualy high enough to cause damage, so I have to be careful. I think of this as my body's attempt at protecting me... but when the pillow hurts my head from being too "hard", it's quite annoying.
    I remember this ESE who said I'd be good as an interior desinger, no, just no. I can do that but having to decorate everyday would be a torture. I know enough of timeless style to go around looking good if I want to, but this is knowledge I felt obligated to learn, not a natural inclination, plus I hate people looking at me... they do regardless, but at least they don't talk to me if I don't dress above a certain standard.
    I can't breath consciouly, you know like in meditation things "to feel breath down to your toes" "take deep breaths"... if I think about how I'm breathing, I sort of choke, become breathless, I feel strain around the diaphragm, it feel like there's some hole in the middle of my abdomen, my throat feels tight, it's atrocious.
    I know some SEI who loves having her little comfy nest that she keeps to herself, I'm more into having a place where I do whatever I want and no one is allowed. It's the same thing in essence: a private place at the liking of who uses it, but it's done, told differently.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac tenebris View Post
    I think it's conveniant to many people to have a thing to blame if things don't go their way or they don't like doing something.

    About low unvalued Si, I find repulsive to be told stuff like: have a seat, want something to drink, etc... I don't know why, but it makes me want to go away, where whether I sit or stand doesn't matter and I don't have to care about this aspect of life, where it doesn't seem as if someone is trying to shove food in my face. It keeps me from knowing whether I need something or not.
    As a teen, I started thinking my body must have been made uncomfortable, which is also a sentence in EIE's Si PoLR description somewhere. I feel pain sharply, I have the impression of getting burnt way before the temperature is actualy high enough to cause damage, so I have to be careful. I think of this as my body's attempt at protecting me... but when the pillow hurts my head from being too "hard", it's quite annoying.
    I remember this ESE who said I'd be good as an interior desinger, no, just no. I can do that but having to decorate everyday would be a torture. I know enough of timeless style to go around looking good if I want to, but this is knowledge I felt obligated to learn, not a natural inclination, plus I hate people looking at me... they do regardless, but at least they don't talk to me if I don't dress above a certain standard.
    I can't breath consciouly, you know like in meditation things "to feel breath down to your toes" "take deep breaths"... if I think about how I'm breathing, I sort of choke, become breathless, I feel strain around the diaphragm, it feel like there's some hole in the middle of my abdomen, my throat feels tight, it's atrocious.
    I know some SEI who loves having her little comfy nest that she keeps to herself, I'm more into having a place where I do whatever I want and no one is allowed. It's the same thing in essence: a private place at the liking of who uses it, but it's done, told differently.
    I just imagined you buying ice cream, locking yourself up in a room with it, waiting for it to melt, and then licking it off the floor.

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    lilac tenebris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I just imagined you buying ice cream, locking yourself up in a room with it, waiting for it to melt, and then licking it off the floor.
    Eh, not far from truth honestly, but I let it melt in a bowl, much easier to scoop up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac tenebris View Post
    Eh, not far from truth honestly, but I let it melt in a bowl, much easier to scoop up.
    cherry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    cherry?
    Yep.

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