View Poll Results: Sociotype during subsequent reincarnations remains...

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  • Stable

    2 12.50%
  • Can change

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  • I don't believe in reincarnation

    11 68.75%
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Thread: Reincarnation

  1. #1

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    Default Reincarnation

    I'm trying to determine what remains stable and what doesn't during a person's subsequent lives/incarnations (assuming reincarnation is true). I've heard/read people claim they have had a different gender or race in a previous life. Just wondering if somebody thinks they have been a different type in a previous life.

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    I think it comes down to the question of what are you? If we are just infinite reverberations of the same energy playing out over and over and over, what is this energy that is being repeated? Without our memories, experience, culture, gender, race, or even type, what is left? What if we are reincarnated as something other than human and we don't even have the same species as a reference point? Individuality is a relational definition, with no reference point individuality becomes meaningless.


    There is one you, it is you here and now in time and space.

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    Depends on the specific brand/religion on past lives and reincarnation but with the church I have involvement with there is strong belief in past lives where you lived before as a man or woman many many times but while your body would be different, you are your soul not your body and as such you would be the same, carrying on gained weaknesses and strengths from each life to the next, so based on this I would assume your personality type remains the same. Your spirit is a specific sex but body can be either (details not discussed in length on this) but race would be different though I don't know if your spirit has a race, as not discussed at all, but doubtful about it.

    I don't believe in past lives at all, just going off what is taught on it.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    If reincarnation is real then it would make no sense to reincarnate as the same "type" over and over unless you were stuck. It makes more sense that a soul would reincarnate with different personalities in order to experience all facets of being human.

    It depends on whose concept of reincarnation you go by. A simplified summary can be found on Wikipedia. I am assuming a lot of people either think of Hinduism or New Age when they think about it. I have read both perspectives but neither influenced my own since I was told I talked of being someone else, somewhere else before I ever heard of such things. I am sure the adults around me chalked it up to imagination. I don't really like discussing these things so openly since people tend to misunderstand. I prefer to keep it vague, usually. :/

    I question where my own ideas came from too. I also question if I am just making it all up. I can't say my belief is as strong now as it was years ago since those images and thoughts of being someone else, somewhere else, tend to fade like a dream as time passes. Maybe because whatever came to me in dreams or daydreams was meant to be helpful during that period so I wouldn't get stuck. Mb the connection to the belief is in my DNA. My mom once told me she remembered being with my step dad in another life with other children. It disturbed her and comforted her at the same time. This was after he died. I had to help her understand what was happening. She thought she was going crazy. She is a Orthodox Christian.

    Most things in life are beyond socionics so cannot be correlated in this way. Not trying to discourage you from whatever spiritual path you want to make out of it. Sorry if it seems like I am.

    Reincarnation is the philosophical or religious concept that the non-physical essence of a living being starts a new life in a different physical form or body after biological death. It is also called rebirth or transmigration, and is a part of the Saṃsāra doctrine of cyclic existence.[1][2] In short, Saṃsāra is the cycle of death and rebirth.[3][4]


    Reincarnation is a central tenet of Indian religions, namely Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Hinduism, although there are Hindu groups that do not believe in reincarnation but believe in an afterlife.[2][5][4][6] It is an esoteric belief in many streams of Orthodox Judaism and is found (in different forms) in some beliefs of North American Natives.[7] A belief in rebirth/metempsychosis was held by Greek historic figures, such as Pythagoras, Socrates, and Plato.[8] It is also a belief in various modern religions. Although the majority of denominations within Christianity and Islam do not believe that individuals reincarnate, particular groups within these religions do refer to reincarnation; these groups include the mainstream historical and contemporary followers of Cathars, Alawites, the Druze,[9] and the Rosicrucians.[10] The historical relations between these sects and the beliefs about reincarnation that were characteristic of Neoplatonism, Orphism, Hermeticism, Manicheanism, and Gnosticism of the Roman era as well as the Indian religions have been the subject of recent scholarly research.[11] In recent decades, many Europeans and North Americans have developed an interest in reincarnation,[12] and many contemporary works mention it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    A type is not the same thing as a personality. If that was the case everybody who had the same type(s) would have the same personality. I'm specifically referring to sociotypes and enneatypes.

    The current hypothesis that I have is that souls are finite (in number) and they were created at a particular "moment" of the "before-time". Types were there from the start, and they were assigned following a rationale that I haven't figured out yet. When you are not here on this realm, you inhabit some other dimension depending on your overall karma parameter. Some people have had 10 incarnations, while others might have had only two. Some incarnations are chosen by the soul in the ethereal realms, others are forced. Some animals also seem to hold human souls (e.g. cats), so some incarnations might have been animal incarnations. Btw this is all based on my own understanding/ observations, I'm not following any religion's tennets.

    Your circumstances might vary according to the determinate setting you have be born to, and your appeareance might vary according to your genetics, but you are always you. And this includes (and IMO is vital) the types.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Do you self type delta NF @mclane

    You remind me of someone here. I just can't remember who. They are probably gone now.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Do you self type delta NF @mclane
    I don't self type at the moment, but I am a gamma-delta mix. Did that mumbo-jumbo sound that much like delta NF stuff ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    I don't self type at the moment, but I am a gamma-delta mix. Did that mumbo-jumbo sound that much like delta NF stuff ?
    I was just curious.

    Edit: Just read this post which made me lean delta NF. I am not getting the gamma vibe although it might be there somewhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    The soul I believe is also a sort of "GPS" that guides you towards your destiny and/or deeper desires. In this sense, it is diametrically opposed to " forcing" your way into reality, which is how some types prefer to conduct themselves. In particular I believe the soul is linked with +Ni, which is a function that gamma and delta quadra value (as per model B). So it is reasonable to think that the ones that are less focused on this aspect of reality would be the more "soulless" types. These would be LSI and ESE (who have -Ne/+Ni as PoLR). Note that soulless in this sense does not imply evil or negative in some way; it simply means that these types prefer to follow their own preferences in a down-to-earth way instead of hearing or following the calling of their +Ni (which does not mean that they are exempt from their effects; the fact that you do not value something does not mean that it ceases to exist).
    Last edited by Aylen; 10-21-2019 at 11:17 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  9. #9
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    Kind of, I don't believe in Karma or any Hindu/Buddhist type beliefs about "soul-migration" but I do think consciousness aka the existence of a "now" can not cease, which would thereby forcibly lead to reincarnation in the event of death. What makes you reincarnate as what is anybody's guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Kind of, I don't believe in Karma or any Hindu/Buddhist type beliefs about "soul-migration" but I do think consciousness aka the existence of a "now" can not cease, which would thereby forcibly lead to reincarnation in the event of death. What makes you reincarnate as what is anybody's guess.
    Why do u think your perception of reality is what makes reality exist. As if the world stops turning over your death?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    but I do think consciousness aka the existence of a "now" can not cease
    Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Why do u think your perception of reality is what makes reality exist. As if the world stops turning over your death?
    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Why not?
    There is no scientific explanation for how matter/energy came into existence. However, if consciousness was eternal by law, this would force the universe into existence as consciousness can not exist from nothingness.

    Also, if you want something wacky to learn about, look up the double-slit experiment if you haven't already heard of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    There is no scientific explanation for how matter/energy came into existence. However, if consciousness was eternal by law, this would force the universe into existence as consciousness can not exist from nothingness.

    Also, if you want something wacky to learn about, look up the double-slit experiment if you haven't already heard of it.
    Matter is different from consciousness though. Matter can also change in state. Even if consciousness is represented by energy, that could just as well be transmuted into something else that no longer really resembles consciousness, could it not?
    Last edited by sbbds; 10-23-2019 at 12:39 PM.

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    After looking at religions as a whole I have begun to think that it is used to justify the means how cruel or novel those means are. It is a slippery slope. Yet, the other side of the issue is that by suffocating need for religion does not really increase personal well being unless it really is something that makes you suffer and you are locked in it.

    In nature we have discovered things such as reversibility and irreversibility. For sure cyclic process happen. It is kind of spooky to think that we as we are of now are just combination and decaying forms of something other (where you could possibly highly unlikely get your old self back..) we can not comprehend and do we finally disperse into some sort of unity.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Matter is different from consciousness though. Matter can also change in state. Even if consciousness is represented by energy, that could just as well be transmitted into something else that no longer really resembles consciousness, could it not?
    Don't really understand your question here tbh. All I'm saying here in regards to matter and energy is that they come into existence by the need for consciousness to exist. Consciousness can not exist in a void of nothingness, and therefore physical matter and everything else life requires comes out of existence by necessity. If we say that death=nothingness, then we are left with an empty answer for how reality came to be in the first place. To me it things only make sense if the existence of consciousness is simply an inherent given that transcends all the other laws of reality.

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    This reminds me of what I wrote about Socionics and Buddhism a while ago:

    " I have observed a correlation between the Skandas (roughly: mental fetters) in Buddhism and the Jungian dichotomies in analytical psychology. I think there is a strong connection between psychology and metaphysics that I hasn’t been explored very much in depth. As such, I will elaborate on this idea.

    Personality is innate, it is the way in which we metabolize information into behaviors and actions.

    The first Skanda is Form (Rupa), which constitutes all physical information that we gather from the material world. It is correlated with the Jungian dichotomy of Sensing, how skilled people are at taking action and constructing harmonious environments.

    The second Skanda is Feeling (Vedana), in essence, it is the emotions that we express outwardly and feel internally. It corresponds to the Jungian dichotomy of Ethics (aka Feeling), having to do with the person’s charisma and ability to form character judgements.

    The third Skanda is Perception (Samjina), which is all that we know and understand. It is connected to the Jungian dichotomy of Logic (aka Thinking), focusing on how good people are at learning new information or logical reasoning.

    The fourth Skanda is Mental Formations (Samskara), which is the information that originates in mind and is interpreted through the imagination. It is associated with the Jungian dichotomy of Intuition, or how well people can generate ideas and understand how events might unfold in the future.

    The fifth is Consciousness, which isn’t correlated to a dichotomy, but it is at the core of what we experience as both independent from reality and personality. Like the Cartesian image of oneself sitting inside one’s own mind, understanding reality as if it were watching a movie. A lot of confusion can emanate from discovering who we are as an independent entity. How do we know that the “self” that we are presently aware of only exists in the mind and is produced out of thought?

    The best way to think about this is to use an analogy I came up with. The exterior of the car is the material “self”, the engine of the car is the personality of the individual and the passenger is consciousness. The “I” is the totality of self, personality and consciousness, it includes everything."

    Though to be clear, the "anatta" or "no self" doctrine in Buddhism should not be taken at face-value. It doesn't mean that we don't exist, rather that the identities that we form about ourselves are not "us" as we are and that we can only having a limited understanding ourselves in accordance with internal phenomena that arises out of other phenomena. This mirrors Kant's idea of being limited in our understanding of external phenomena in the real world. Also, the question that is being posited here is also just as misleading. We have an understanding of Socionics that can be used as a model to explain human personality, yet we haven't a clue if this same model of personality applies to higher beings in the Heavenly Realms or Hell Realms. For instance, if we were to consider the reincarnation of a human into an animal, they don't have a sense of categories and logic, the type of cognitive and abstract thinking that comes from the frontal lobe. Yet, the limbic system and basal ganglia still are responsible for the emotional and physical phenomena that animals feel, much in the same way that we feel and experience pain and pleasure as well.

    I believe what is let go is the identity and memories that you have, while your own formative consciousness and your type as well, remains. When you attain enlightenment, what is let go is not your personality, but the attachments created by your personality. It's much like instinct, it coddled and protected us when we were an infant species, but when it was left unchecked, it gave rise to superstition, fear and paranoia. That is what makes attaining nirvana all the more meaningful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Don't really understand your question here tbh. All I'm saying here in regards to matter and energy is that they come into existence by the need for consciousness to exist. Consciousness can not exist in a void of nothingness, and therefore physical matter and everything else life requires comes out of existence by necessity. If we say that death=nothingness, then we are left with an empty answer for how reality came to be in the first place. To me it things only make sense if the existence of consciousness is simply an inherent given that transcends all the other laws of reality.
    These two things contradict, is the result of the point I was trying to make. Does consciousness “follow logic/reality”, or not? If it doesn’t follow other laws, then why can’t it exist in a void of nothingness?

    I also said “transmitted” when I typed “transmuted” on my phone, autocorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Does consciousness follow logic/reality, or not?
    Logic/Reality is molded around supporting the existence of consciousness, so no. As I said, it's existence is the one law that transcend all laws. The way I see it, death/non-existence is impossible because you can't experience non-existence. Therefore, you reincarnate or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Logic/Reality is molded around supporting the existence of consciousness, so no. As I said, it's existence is the one law that transcend all laws. The way I see it, death/non-existence is impossible because you can't experience non-existence. Therefore, you reincarnate or whatever.
    Why are there so many consciousnesses? And why do they all need to be supported forever? Feels like big assumptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Logic/Reality is molded around supporting the existence of consciousness, so no. As I said, it's existence is the one law that transcend all laws. The way I see it, death/non-existence is impossible because you can't experience non-existence. Therefore, you reincarnate or whatever.
    You might find some of this interesting. I don't completely agree with the full article or the site but I thought this was worth posting.

    Panpsychism has not always been taken seriously, and in fact until recent years it hardly ever was, so why the rush towards it among those who favor the filter model? There seem to be basically two reasons. One is that panpsychism is consistent with interpretations of quantum mechanics that place consciousness at the center of existence and suppose that consciousness is primary. Dualistic views used to be more in vogue but with a greater understanding of quantum mechanics is coming a turn to idealism, as it is called. Rather than a dualism of mind and matter, mind is considered to be responsible for the creation of matter, from which it follows that some sort of mind may be inherent in all sorts of matter. Panpsychism and idealism are different philosophical positions, but they are compatible and contemporary panpsychists are idealists also.

    The other reason for the increasing acceptance of idealist panpsychism is that its world view is very compatible with mystical states of consciousness. This is how Woollacott got there. Alongside her scientific work, she practiced yoga and meditated. She had experiences that she could not reconcile with materialist reductionism and eventually she realized that she needed to bridge the two parts of her life. She found panpsychism—and panentheism, which considers some part of God to inhere in everything—to be in many ways exactly like the Eastern teachings she was following and gave up the materialist world view in its favor.

    Now, the reason this turn to idealist panpsychism is important for us, the reason I am writing this post about it, is that many of these same writers embrace postmortem survival and reincarnation. This is very significant. If it were just the reductionist model that were being rejected, then it is more or less obvious why survival and even reincarnation might follow. If consciousness is understood to be independent of the brain then nothing would keep it from surviving the body’s demise. Panpsychism itself says nothing about the survival much less the reincarnation of consciousness and survival is not implied or contemplated by it. Koch does not see a survival implication, yet many people have. Why? And how would it work?

    I believe that it has to do with the joining of idealism with panpsychism. Panpsychists as I have said believe that there is consciousness in everything, but not that everything is conscious in the same way. Idealism carries with it evolutionary implications, because if consciousness is the ground of everything, and if it is in everything, then it could have been differentiating and evolving over time, just as the physical and biological worlds have differentiated and evolved over time. Perhaps it was with the emergence of biological life that streams of consciousness capable of survival began to emerge.

    So survival and reincarnation are entirely compatible with an evolutionary idealist panpsychism and may be even be logical extensions of it. Survival and reincarnation are also compatible with dualistic ideas of mind /body relations, of course. The question naturally arises, what if anything does panpsychism bring to our understanding of survival that substance dualism does not? Are there advantages to considering survival from the point of view of an evolutionary idealist panpsychism?

    I believe that there are advantages. Substance dualism cannot explain why mind, or soul, or whatever one wishes to call the enduring fundamental essence of the self, came into existence, or what it was doing before there were human bodies for it to occupy. An evolutionary idealist panpsychism, on the other hand, presumes consciousness to be the origin of all and that it has differentiated and evolved over time. Evolutionary idealist panpsychism also allows more readily for new streams of consciousness to come into being, emerging from the background consciousness or evolving from more primitive forms, whereas substance dualism seems to require that the souls we have now have been with us all along.

    http://jamesgmatlock.com/2016/09/15/...reincarnation/
    and



    I wish the guy in the video had more energy in his voice but it's ok. You have to be in the mood to listen.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    There is no scientific explanation for how matter/energy came into existence. However, if consciousness was eternal by law, this would force the universe into existence as consciousness can not exist from nothingness.

    Also, if you want something wacky to learn about, look up the double-slit experiment if you haven't already heard of it.
    What is note-worthy about that experiment? I know about this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement and find it very interesting, since it suggest particles can be bound and influenced independently from space, which could mean that the universe is not what it seems and that things "connect" via an unknown dimension or field.

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