whilesounds like nothing short of Se.Don't you dare to approach me or I'm going to Fi you all the way to a mental institution.
Also I think an LIE typing is particularly silly as I always score highest in Si on tests.
B&D can vouch for my lack of Ni.
Though I do see how Tozo would see me as a non-caregiver as I behave more coldly to people who I see as overly sexual. (Sexuality is a huge turn-off.)
He seems to have mellowed out since I've been gone though.
It's really not that complicated. Being ambitious means usage of Se, which you value, but EIIs find it really tiring in order to live up to your expectations. No one likes to alienate his nature to please the supposedly soulmate, even less if the soulmate happens to be a caregiver type, which you're not.
Also, do you really expect your dual to be perfect? No one is perfect. You really need to mature a bit.
i dont care being called a pushover by someone i don't know, and if that's not the case. she was making a list of specific people's flaws anyway, so totally unrelated to how you got salty about it.
my dual is lazy as fuck and basically shrek
;-; why have you stolen a keyring Abbie, what happened
I'm aware of two dual couples in my life, one that seems pretty stinkin' perfect and one that is solid and strong but has issues unrelated to socionics.
The pretty stinkin' perfect one is an ESI female (enneagram 9w1 sp/sx) and LIE male (enneagram 3w4 sx/so). I've known the ESI for years; she was a suitemate of mine in college. Their relationship isn't "showy," but I've noticed it runs with quiet efficiency and respect, almost like they read one another's minds. They are nearly always on the same page in conversation, effortlessly agreeing with one another. The fact that their e-types and instincts are complementary significantly increases the quality and lowers friction, even in a duality couple. They also have really similar backgrounds and parents.
I'm sure they have issues like every couple, but it's kind of cool. I was just chatting with the ESI the other day and asked how she knew she wanted to marry the LIE (I needed dating advice ). She said, "I felt comfortable with him." She felt she could be herself without any judgment, which was a big deal for her. She's very quiet and I think fears she is boring sometimes, and he seemed to effortlessly assuage those fears.
The only other dual couple I know (that I'm aware are duals) are an SEE male (6w7 Sx/So) and ILI female (e-9 or 5, Sp/Sx). Their relationship also seems very solid--meaning I have little doubt it will stand the test of time, they're on each other's sides through and through--but the SEE has a very turbulent nature and they have other strong differences outside of socionics. For example, touch is how he likes to express his affection to her and she really dislikes physical affection, which is hard for both of them (harder for him).
Interestingly enough, she's also stated that at times she feels a bit overlooked because he's such a larger-than-life personality. I think for the most part she enjoys being in the background and likes that he does the "people stuff," but every so often it seems to grate just a bit that he's the person everyone loves and asks about.
Years later, I mentioned I still had it and he was like, "Oh, yeah."
It's on my dresser now.
aww that's so cute! maybe he thought you were his dual also? err then again, thinking about yielding vs. obstinate types.. maybe he's just not what you are. in which case, maybe you're not duals after all?
I have a pretty smooth friendship with a dual, there's only been one time we had a bump in the road and it's because he was giving me some hard advice that I needed to hear. The only other ruffles is that since we are both the same age I do feel like the caregiving can feel condescending but I don't notice any of this being intentional on his part and is more my own feelings and pride. Other than that he's easy to get along with and usually enthusiastic to talk to me, it's sort of one sided in that he does alot more for me than I do him.
I have 2 LSE pastors, I get along with one a little more than the other, we got along from day one, it's all jokes and reminiscing mixed in with deep discussion, I like the thin line between fun and serious and how we're able to jump inbetween the two. There was one time where we were watching a video presentation, the video started talking about heroes, person after person on the video talked about who their hero was, and then pastor grabs me and shakes me a little and kinda joking says "You're my hero." I just laughed knowing he was joking, but we have a especially good friendship and I felt like he wanted me to actually acknowledge him as my hero, and I kinda felt like saying it to him but I just stood there with my arms crossed unconsciously protecting my own heart I guess, feeling like if I said it and I was serious I would look idk...corny or something, and it got silent after that and I looked over at him and he had his arms crossed and he looked like he was also unconsciously protecting his heart too. If that's true or not, either way I felt bad for not saying "Pastor actually you're my hero." even as a joke.
LSE co-worker I know, very attracted to her, we got along quickly, she also had the same ability to be able to jump between play and work. She got snatched up by what I think is an IEE, she is very comfortable to be around and that is pretty rare for me with women I am attracted to. Every now and then I am reminded that she is a "tough cookie". If she was single and not as high in demand I think it would work out.
I met an LSE in college who on the first meeting we got along well. The whole friendship started because I was an artist and he was getting people together for a programming project, he liked my stuff and felt I was good enough to help out his team and I felt flattered that the leader of the team was reaching out to me.
But later in the friendship I found that he lacks the ability to take turns in conversation and just seizes the moment to monologue to anyone willing to listen. I felt like he was missing the idea that this isn't fun for people, because it seemed like he honestly did not know. Also we got into it a little on a group project he was leading, the power got to his head and he spoke to me in a condescending tone pushing me to confront him in front of everybody which made him get defensive since it wasn't in private, even though he wasn't in the right. Later he apologized but it felt like he did it just to regain control and he rubbed me on the head as he did it making it feel even more condescending. From me being impressed to how charismatic, outgoing and confident this guy seemed at first, it slowly declined into me wanting to be around him less because of his inflated ego and monologues.
A LSE college professor of mine provoked me almost the same as a cartoon highschool bully would, and he was about 60. I was so shocked by his weird and unprofessional behavior that I decided to actually respond to his provoking, and he seemed pretty shocked, all the "control" he thought he had went out the window for a brief second and he was scraping to get it back, but I felt so mistreated that something had to be said. After the little "altercation" I decided to apologize the next day because he would be my professor next quarter and I didn't want him to have any extra reason to fail me lol. Later he just stared at me in shock everytime we walked past each other in the hall way.
I'm not usually a confrontational person, actually never am one, but with LSE it's like when they do something wrong it seems so obviously wrong that it's like a reflex to point out the obvious. With other types issues like that can be more ambiguous or their reaction to it being pointed out can seem unpredictable. I guess LSE seems like they can be more reasoned with.
people are people, no matter how much you love them and how much you appreciate their soul (romantic or otherwise.)
Maybe 2 male ones out of many have been physically hot to me, and out of those 1 close-to-perfect male one. These guys actually had a bite to them and would immediately compliment and chase me back a bit instead of having me do EVERYTHING always...omfg.
It seems unnecessarily/un-neutrally objectively dark and dismal to me to think of people as either perfect or imperfect though so whatever.
Haha wow. I never heard that before. I'm not interested in arguing, but why do you say that? Or are you just fucking with her?BnD is ESI, so maybe a little but not really.
I do feel like @ashlesha is my soul sister in ways. <3 but I don't see how I'm Fi/Te valuing at all.
I really like the bitter ESI villain on that Once upon a Time episode (Lady Tremaine- the one in the sixth season not the shitty 7th one), but that felt like typical benefactor/beneficiary relations.
ESI bad guys are probably my favorite. I love their emotional turmoil and how they hurt others but then always feel like they are in the right because of it, it's interesting to me.
I can "make it work" with most duals. The ones I really consider special in the way that duality is supposed to be are...a much smaller fraction. If we're talking romantically then there are other factors that go into perfection. And to be honest, I don't find duality to even be the best relationship for friendship, not for me at least.
I have several LSE female friends who I connect really well with. One of my best friends is an LSE female. My interactions with LSE men have felt quite different. I've only interacted with two self-identified LSE males for some length of time. With one, I seem to be able to joke around with him, but it's impossible to build any trust or have a sincere conversation with him undercutting the conversation with some inappropriate or poorly timed sexual comments/potty humour. I don't have the same problem with the other LSE guy I know, but it's still difficult to close the distance with him and discuss more personal topics all the same. Comparatively, I find SLIs and LIEs a bit easier to connect with.
Last edited by a good egg; 09-12-2019 at 12:24 PM.
a good egg, this is very interesting. I assume you are an EII female.
Are you sure you've typed those male LSE's correctly? I've known two female LSE's all my life (mother and sister) and several male LSE's for many years, and I've never once heard them make an off-color sexual comment. Or any sexual comment at all, for that matter. Those are more along the lines of what LIE's do all the time.
Having said that, I know a female EII, and I (an LIE) get along with her incredibly well. I think she'd like to date seriously instead of just having lunch, but I see some potential problems with Semi-duality. (We can plan together incredibly well, but unlike Duals, she and I can't spur each other to actually accomplish anything, and then there's the Infantile-Victim thing. ) I've tried to get her to look for male LSE's, but she told me that she doesn't trust them at all. And in one case, her suspicions were actually warranted. She warned me that an LSE shouldn't be trusted, and she was right.
I told her that she should look for LSE's in hardware stores, but she replied that she's afraid she'd meet SLE's there, and do I want to go out to lunch today? And then she turned away from me, bent at the waist, and put some packages on the floor.
I think she is stuck on something that looks good and easy (me), rather than what is long-term best for her (LSE's). Or maybe she just hasn't met the right LSE. Because LSE's can be really great, upstanding guys if you don't expect much in the way of them expressing feelings or having great intuition. I mean, that's the kind of opposite-talent thing you get in a dual.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-12-2019 at 01:07 PM.
The LSE description sounds attractive to me. I just don't know where you meet these elusive people, and I am already not particularly talented at meeting new people.
Probably the only antidote to this is to let the Te-dom have some experience with Fi-doms, so the Fi-doms don't look so much like a bag full of hand grenades and guns with their safeties off, with a frantic wolverine in there just to keep things interesting.
After a Te-dom gets some experience with an Fi-dom, the Te-dom can lose a lot of their fear and behave in a more normal manner. BUT, this might take years, depending on the person.
To meet them, just show an interest in their boat or bike (not in them, not in them, that will scare them off), and act helpless but interested. That is honey to the bees. It also helps if you inject the word "respect" into your conversation. All LSE's crave respect, the same way that SLI's crave "appreciation". Aside from that, just be yourself.
SLE women are actually men and IEI men are actually women
The reason I know duality is a meme is because the personality "types" compatible with me, especially in girls, are far rarer than any type, period. I have no doubts to the nature of the compatibility because I can smell the initial critical cues like a shark to blood in the sea, without even having a context of what to look for, and yet it's only appeared in front of me on about one or liberally two occasions.
Screw duality. Everything else about Socionics is arcane and edgy and cool, but Duality will swallow you if you don't renounce it.
Finding The One is that exclusive area of life that's so important, you have to do what works for you, not trust and offload it to another formula that a totally different mind created.
"The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides
So for me I think the number is One in the sense that it was a successful yet short lived (a handful of years) romance that changed me forever and is one the crowing jewels of my time on Earth.
But who knows if it was a dual or not it could have just been a really amazing exp that was ongoing for a number of seasons. The issues outside of socionics came up: different goals, different age and stages, life beckoned. It was magic though, while it lasted. I made a sacrifice by leaving and I don't regret that choice. Its just sad, but that's the way it is. ending on the high note is a fucking painful trip and took me almost 5 years to wrap it up and 'move on' as they say.
I'm not sold on dual being the best partnership. I actually think it makes people quite weak in their problem areas over the long term.
Now I see dual information and its easy to recognize when it happens so I agree with the socionics statement that says once you've exp duals its easy to see in the future.
I can't stress enough that people need the same goals and they need to be in the similar age brackets and also somewhat the same values. But not all the same values because that's what makes it fun. Nothing wrong with a bit of drama.
A girl has it a lot easier in this regard as society will support her as long as she plays her female cards. A male needing to be provided for (weak sensing, weak Te) means they have these conflicting messages: on one hand they have what is unconsciously expected of them: get a job, have a talent, work to produce or support yourself, ect... and on the other hand they have these other skills to navigate the world, yet they are consider "soft skills" ie: empathy, analysis of timescales, yet removed from pragmatic ventures (low Te).
So these two forces come up. In reality it looks like this: your girlfriend is going to do that for you? How old are you now? And its doubling troubling as they are not infantiles so there is this doubled drama that asks that they should be competent and 'the man', yet lack the four dimensional skills to really claim that role throughout their entire lifetime. Ebbs and flows back wards and forwards in regards to their "handle" on life.
I read on a thread once that healthy betas tend to act more like deltas, and I will add vice versa, healthy deltas tend to act more like betas.
This is if you believe in socionic determinism which is so under fire on the forum as of late.
What do you think about all of this?
With the first one all we talked about was him being someone who likes to plan before he takes action and he insisted he was not like that while physically shaking and smiling, it made the rest of us uncomfortable to watch so we immediately stopped.
The second one I was explaining to him that he's LSE and listing out things that are probably true for him, he confirmed saying it was an accurate description but I could tell he was uncomfortable and wanted out, it wasn't like a lightbulb moment like "Whoa that's so true, how do you know that?" like it was for me.
And yea acting helpless yea...-_- it's like crack, but will get you know respect in the long run, but being clever will equal it out I supposed.
Find me an ILI that isn't perfect I'll wait
When my [LII] brother introduced me to socionics, he explained the system without relating it to me, then I pointed out which one I am.
A relationship needs to be formed before the psychoanalysis can take place.
That is...assuming the LSE will be open to it. Some are, some aren't.
I am, obviously, but I'm not typical of LSEs.
I tried psychoanalysis and psychology discussion with my LSE. He was interested at first, as when I described features of my personality he was surprised to find he could easily relate. But he wasn't interested in reading any articles about it - just in hearing my explanations.
Once I had his sociotype settled, I wanted to know his enneagram type, but he kept putting off reading through the enneagram descriptions. Until finally I noticed 6ish behavior and sent him to read just that one description. Then again he agreed that it fit well and seemed to like that, but he didn't delve further.
I eventually tried psychoanalyzing further, and he seems okay with it so long as I'm verbally explaining my own psychological situation. But he's disinterested in general and doesn't see psychology as a worthwhile topic.
I've dated at least a couple of 9's or 9 in tritype and I'm a 4. These seemed like some of my healthier relationships. This was listed as one of the most likely marriages, in fact I think it was the most likely, on that link you shared Adam. 9 and SLI? Yes?
FYI high possibility my mom is my dual and we live together/get along quite well lol. I don't know if I've met any SLI in person who noticed myself or I them yet : ( maybe...
Also to the OP, if EII and IEI are into bathroom humor, which I find detestable, I'm pretty glad I'm neither of these types (though I doubt this is the case for many EII and IEI ) If I find out someone likes Family Guy, they lose some serious points
An as IEI, I've met multiple duals throughout my life. One of my best friends in my dual, my father is my dual and my current boss is my dual.
Having my boss as my dual is great - he knows how to mobilize me when I'm stagnant at work. He's also very good good at giving me constant praise which I need. In turn, I'm able to show him new ways of approaching things at work which he is very receptive too. One thing I've noticed with my duals is that they are the MOST RECEPTIVE to my intuition and alternative thinking, they also immediately accept without any push-back. My LII significant other always puts a fight and we go into long debates on these points. One of our executives let the company and I began immediately telling him that this promotion was his and the time now was to act and get it. I also pitched all the other executives and employees that he was the best for this job. Time will tell if my efforts had an effect.
I will utilize different methods at work and my boss will always allow it and then is shocked/impress when they work and our relationship grows. I admire my dual for how much energy he brings into the workplace - everyone mobilizes and works for him very easy.