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Thread: Contrary relationship

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    Default Contrary relationship

    Hi

    What experiences you have with your contrary type? Do you get along?

    ILE mostly for me seems like smart people,
    not afraid to speak up, but also kinda modest and friendly. In theory i wouldnt get along with them well, but really... Most of them seems nice.

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    Completely different way of tackling the same problems of your mirror type, which makes them interesting and provocative to listen to. Lots of distance, but also mutual respect.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    I feel like information being passed can also seem equally insightful and equally bogus. My EIE friend talks to me about his ideas alot and idk why but my natural reaction is "this is bogus." I've felt the same with an uber driver I typed EIE on the spot because of her demeanor, attitude, drives and ideas almost matching exactly with the EIE friend, some of the info being passed I guess can seem equally insightful and equally bogus, perhaps it's a reaction of seeing value in unvalued areas ("I never thought about it like that") and also naturally reacting to things you do not value.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    I remember one ILI math teacher from school. She was quite fascinated the way how I approached problems. It was like we could share common language but route in process was very different and we picked up new things observing each other.
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    This relationship holds 7th position with respect to potential strength. The externalized rationalization (Fe and Te) seem to control most of the mood of these relationships, and whether or not a relationship will actually happen - the decision for which is usually made within the first 5 minutes. Communication and approach seems to be the main stumbling blocks, which can create immediate distrust, but if the pair gets to recognize each other as solid individuals before they actually meet (like in a work environment) then success has a leg up.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    This relationship holds 7th position with respect to potential strength. The externalized rationalization (Fe and Te) seem to control most of the mood of these relationships, and whether or not a relationship will actually happen - the decision for which is usually made within the first 5 minutes. Communication and approach seems to be the main stumbling blocks, which can create immediate distrust, but if the pair gets to recognize each other as solid individuals before they actually meet (like in a work environment) then success has a leg up.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Is 7th position the PoLR?

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veromoni View Post
    In theory i wouldnt get along with them well, but really... Most of them seems nice.
    The theory says all of your relationships in life will ultimately be dissatisfying except for with your dual and maybe other inner quadra members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Is 7th position the PoLR?
    My statement is based on my own model, not those of Socionics (note that I misspelt Maslow ):

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 08-04-2019 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    The theory says all of your relationships in life will ultimately be dissatisfying except for with your dual and maybe other inner quadra members.
    I try to take what is positive from every type and I have low expectations for the rest.

    What helps me a lot in ITR's is that when I meet someone with whom Socionics predicts a less-than-stellar relationship, I can count on the fact that they don't know that some parts of the relationship will most likely be bad. They are going to be optimistic on first meeting (in fact, they are subconsciously expecting to meet their dual), and the first impressions that they get from me can set the tone for the relationship for a long time.

    Yesterday I was doing a deal with a guy who was recommended to me through mutual (Beta) acquaintances. I'd never met him in person before, only talked to him on the phone, but when I met him in person, I thought he might be ESE, which is a type that I find less easy to get along with. This probably showed in my face, because his initial friendly enthusiasm turned darker the longer we spoke.

    When I saw this happening, I disengaged my negative thoughts and spoke only about positive things and how much I admired our mutual acquainances, and things turned all positive again. We did the deal and, fortunately, the only times we will interact in the future are when he sends me money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I try to take what is positive from every type and I have low expectations for the rest.

    What helps me a lot in ITR's is that when I meet someone with whom Socionics predicts a less-than-stellar relationship, I can count on the fact that they don't know that some parts of the relationship will most likely be bad. They are going to be optimistic on first meeting (in fact, they are subconsciously expecting to meet their dual), and the first impressions that they get from me can set the tone for the relationship for a long time.

    Yesterday I was doing a deal with a guy who was recommended to me through mutual (Beta) acquaintances. I'd never met him in person before, only talked to him on the phone, but when I met him in person, I thought he might be ESE, which is a type that I find less easy to get along with. This probably showed in my face, because his initial friendly enthusiasm turned darker the longer we spoke.

    When I saw this happening, I disengaged my negative thoughts and spoke only about positive things and how much I admired our mutual acquainances, and things turned all positive again. We did the deal and, fortunately, the only times we will interact in the future are when he sends me money.
    I feel like I know what Singu would say to this:

    "Well, see Socionics "knowledge" negatively influenced your expectations and relationships when it didn't even have to"

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    INFp/IEI interacting with IEE/ENFp. Basically IEE try to be nice and adapt to me using Fi for their own interests not for a Ti reason. It seems initially like they are agreeing with Ti reasons but it's really Fi so we are never really on the same page, they are just adapting to adapt to me, not because it makes sense to do so in context of understanding why I do things. Their strong Ne and Ni and understanding of social interaction lets us discuss things but without the global reasons why so they are unable to synthesize a deeper understanding and give good feedback as to why I do things. Strong Ti types are able to give feedback and polish my understanding if it's off and get on the same understanding architecture. Therefore we become more predictable in our general values and understanding at least on a basic level, letting us get to actually living life and dealing with challenges easier.
    Last edited by jughead; 08-23-2019 at 07:58 PM.

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    Good for friendship. Romantic-wise, it can easily turn into a love-hate relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    Good for friendship. Romantic-wise, it can easily turn into a love-hate relationship.
    I agree real good for friendship, boundaries can get blurred though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veromoni View Post
    Hi

    What experiences you have with your contrary type? Do you get along?

    ILE mostly for me seems like smart people,
    not afraid to speak up, but also kinda modest and friendly. In theory i wouldnt get along with them well, but really... Most of them seems nice.
    Maybe ILEs are just nice. ツ
    As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.

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    LIEs are definitely people I can respect and admire from afar. When we get closer different problems can arise. They usually have well-developed views on life, but they are also more focused on putting these views in practice than analyzing or reworking them in detail. So it's like what I admire in them is something that they don't particularly prize in themselves.

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    The worst part I think is when their mobilizing needs stimulation. You are completely inept when it comes it. It is like super heavy load load that needs to be lifted and you just have no power to do it.
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    my sister (LSE) is in this relationship (husband is an LSI). she suffers from depression because of it. I would consider it one of the worst IR (right after conflict and superego)

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    my sister (LSE) is in this relationship (husband is an LSI). she suffers from depression because of it. I would consider it one of the worst IR (right after conflict and superego)
    I think this is the most common relationship for LSE women.


    to hop on what @Heretic 007 said about their mobilizing needing stimulation. Me and my EIE friend had a temporary falling out purely because I could not provide the Se he forcefully requested. It manifested as him wanting me to put tons of energy to get something done right this moment, and he was trying to force that effort out of me, and my Si was like "whoaaa slow down buddy, we need to do this comfortably, and right now I am not comfortable" and man it was a huge falling out, I got loudly Fe lectured about how I'm holding him back from this Se moment he can capitalize on, he was essientially ready to act on something and I was not and he told me off in many different ways about it. We both didn't know socionics, he felt we weren't on the same page, he was on the Se page and I was on the Si one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I think this is the most common relationship for LSE women.


    to hop on what @Heretic 007 said about their mobilizing needing stimulation. Me and my EIE friend had a temporary falling out purely because I could not provide the Se he forcefully requested. It manifested as him wanting me to put tons of energy to get something done right this moment, and he was trying to force that effort out of me, and my Si was like "whoaaa slow down buddy, we need to do this comfortably, and right now I am not comfortable" and man it was a huge falling out, I got loudly Fe lectured about how I'm holding him back from this Se moment he can capitalize on, he was essientially ready to act on something and I was not and he told me off in many different ways about it. We both didn't know socionics, he felt we weren't on the same page, he was on the Se page and I was on the Si one.
    What do you think is the most common relationship for EIIs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    The worst part I think is when their mobilizing needs stimulation. You are completely inept when it comes it. It is like super heavy load load that needs to be lifted and you just have no power to do it.
    Rather, when they use their mobilizing and criticize you for your lack of it.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Rather, when they use their mobilizing and criticize you for your lack of it.
    Word mobilizing implies that you suck at it and unlike role it is hard to generate on your own hence if you don't get it from external sources it starts to really wear you down. Like ILI needs close contact or starts to become schizoid and ILE becomes apathetic nihilist. You'll see this in LIE's who participate in sports or hiking or else their body becomes totally "uninflated". Or LII's who do not shower...
    Last edited by Heretic 007; 08-25-2019 at 04:34 AM.
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    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    in gulenko's model g, the controlling function has the least amount of energy after the vulnerable function, meaning that your contrary partner's main focus in life is an aspect that you can barely use without feeling drained. in this relationship, there's also no support for your weak functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Word mobilizing implies that you suck at it and unlike role it is hard to generate on your own hence if you don't get it from external sources it starts to really wear you down. Like ILI needs close contact or starts to become schizoid and ILE becomes apathetic nihilist. You'll see this in LIE's who participate in sports or hiking or else their body becomes totally "uninflated". Or LII's who do not shower...
    I don't agree with that. The mobilizing is relatively easy to "generate" on your own; it's just used clumsily. There are plenty of examples of this: ILEs in entertainment roles, LIEs and EIEs in high-status positions, ESIs and LSIs into conspiracy theories, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I don't agree with that. The mobilizing is relatively easy to "generate" on your own; it's just used clumsily. There are plenty of examples of this: ILEs in entertainment roles, LIEs and EIEs in high-status positions, ESIs and LSIs into conspiracy theories, etc.
    I claim it is structural manipulation of experienced states and finding parallels to new situations and audience generates Fe. If we shut ILE down in a basement for few days without external contact to information we will see that Fe drops beyond belief. Personally when I shut down myself from the world it starts to drop down considerably after couple of days and I think if we do this same to SEI they will be very upset without ounce of logic in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I don't agree with that. The mobilizing is relatively easy to "generate" on your own; it's just used clumsily. There are plenty of examples of this: ILEs in entertainment roles, LIEs and EIEs in high-status positions, ESIs and LSIs into conspiracy theories, etc.
    I guess it depends. I would say that I focus a lot on health, nutrition etc. (Si), but cooking and taking care of the household and comfort.. it's very draining and exhausting. there seems to be a lack of balance, so people often completely neglect the aspects of this function or indulge in it

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    there seems to be a lack of balance, so people often completely neglect the aspects of this function or indulge in it
    Yes, that's also true. But I would also say it's one of the less draining functions, certainly less than the other weak functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marep View Post
    What do you think is the most common relationship for EIIs?
    Probably EIE.

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    Usually where people succeed tends to be their role instead of mobilizing. Like I know LSE with incredibly powerful Role. You could think that he could be EIE but no he is LSE and speaks a lot about comfort, food and stuff while his Ne seems repetitive in need of actual depth stimulation He also uses his strong Se by bringing status relating objects to discussion and exiting people in general. He is very high energy LSE.

    Some ILE's tend to also have incredibly repetitive Fe it tends to get worse the less ILE has drive to be original. Like Cousteau. He used lots of Se in his dives and in other stuff. It even sounds like his data collection of objects was very good.

    That is the most common pattern but if they put thought in it they can make mobilizing better.
    Last edited by Heretic 007; 08-26-2019 at 09:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Usually where people succeed tends to be their role instead of mobilizing.
    I totally disagree with that...the role function is not prioritized, not enjoyed, and plays a minor role in a person's life overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Usually where people succeed tends to be their role instead of mobilizing. Like I know LSE with incredibly powerful Role. You could think that he could be EIE but no he is LSE and speaks a lot about comfort, food and stuff while his Ne seems repetitive in need of actual depth stimulation He also uses his strong Se by bringing status relating objects to discussion and exiting people in general. He is very high energy LSE.

    Some ILE's tend to also have incredibly repetitive Fe it tends to get worse the less ILE has drive to be original. Like Cousteau. He used lots of Se in his dives and in other stuff. It even sounds like his data collection of objects was very good.

    That is the most common pattern but if they put thought in it they can make mobilizing better.
    These impressions match up with my own. I think it's because we value Role less, and therefore we can use it with less hesitation. And if skill is often a matter of practice, then well...

    So I agree it's completely possible to be very effortlessly successful at Role by definition. Seemingly more than HA many times. I think at the end of the day, because you value quality in your HA though, HA will probably be more pointed and therefore more effective than Role, when you do practice it.

    Also remember that use of Role will stand out more both to the user and in the environment. It is part of the socially recognized super-ego, and a conscious function. So its relative power is also just a bit of a contextual illusion.

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    Honestly guys, if you are in close proximity to people who make you feel good or at least neutral, stick with that.

    Unless you have a bit of curiosity and a brave streak, then sure go swimming in the deep end for a bit. You can always return to the shallow end of you get tired or need to tip toe on firm Earth.

    There is no other way, so better just get out there and embrace it.

    Take it from me. You can adapt somewhat while still being true to who and what you are

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    I have to reread the article on contrary IR again but Iíd like to post without bias. So my experience with SLI is that I feel like Iím talking from behind a low signal tv and thereís lots of interference. I mean, I respect them and all, but if I ever read something thatís written by them or an LSE I have to reread it 3-4 times and even then I miss their point. Same with real life, we both repeat the same phrases until we understand each other.

    Oh and we arenít psycho. We had to work with each other which is how we got this far in the first place. But at least they donít get hurt super easily like EII which is. A broken signal but worse. I can be good acquitances with SLI but nothing more because even though none of us do anything ďwrongĒ (SLI rarely do anything thatís considered wrong anyway) we both have to blow off steam after being with each other for too long.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    ^quasi-identical are supposed to have communication difficulties. Contrary types are supposed to be the ones that can follow each other.
    So in each club (NT, SF, NF, ST) the non identical extroverts and non identical introverts do not follow each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    @Heretic 007

    i do experience this communication problem with LSE’s too though? But with them there’s more anger and with SLI its more “I guess we don’t get each other shrug”

    With SLI it’s repeating some things but not really understanding and shrugging it off, but not many problems follow because we manage to get some points clear at the end
    With LSE it has more consequences, LSE’s often think I am poking fun at them even though I’m not, and if we split responsibilities we both understand the whole situation differently even though we read and listen to the same words

    thoughts?

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    Contrary is also interesting for a parent-child relationship.

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    Trampling over each others pasture is the main source of irritation, and constant irritation over time can drive one mad. These pairs can have very similar interests but they go about them very differently; one partner would tend to think that the other has the right objectives but is approaching them in the wrong fashion. It's very difficult for these partners to divide responsibilities or define separate roles such that one will not eventually try to pee in the other's soup; normally, a third party has to do it for them. These relationships seem to work when both partners essentially live separate lives, coming together only when mutual support is needed (you fight me, you fight both of us); when pastures aren't even adjacent, even contrary comments are far less likely.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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