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Thread: Stories about good marriages that are bad Intertype relations

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Stories about good marriages that are bad Intertype relations

    I would like to hear if you know of good marriages that are good in spite of being less-good Intertype Relations, and what you think keeps them healthy and strong.

    So I will begin by telling I think it takes, and give one example of such a marriage. But I would like to hear other opinions too.

    ____________________

    I am happy to be in a dual marriage, a second marriage. We celebrated five years this spring, and we are both blessed by this gift that followed divorces and the difficulties and the loneliness of single parenting.

    It seemed at first to me that I had some kind of unfair advantage being in a dual relationship. I mean, most everyone wants a good relationship, so why should I be so fortunate? Well, one thing is: to those whom much is given, much is expected. But also, I have realized there is one thing that is more important to marriage happiness than great intertype relations. And this makes it more fair, because we aren't all in Dual marriages! That is, that you both love God more than each other. With God, miraculous graces can supercede Socionics Intertype (and other) realities, such as in relations where one, just by being him/herself, is constantly oppressing or invalidating the other.

    I think commitment, faithfulness and integrity has to be in there. And if one is living striving to please God, then that's a part of the package. But also, I think that becoming whole is an extremely important thing to bring into a relationship. (Or, this should be your goal before deciding to leave an unhappy, yet safe marriage). I believe you cannot be made whole without the help of God. It takes a miracle, because we are all broken. But Jesus makes hearts whole.

    Without God there will always be ayawning emptiness*, that no relationship can fill it. To expect your spouse to fill it is asking the impossible. So we must seek God, who says, "If you seek me, you will find me." That is a God's promise, and God always keeps his promises.

    Also if you ask for help and wisdom, He will give it. Always. And little else is as important as to ask His help with as finding the right spouse. I wish I had done that the first time around. But if you picked the less than ideal person, like a poor intertype relations, there is hope because God is great and He can work with cracked pots.

    __________________________


    So, I am thinking about a friend's relationship, she SEI, he LSE - he Supervises her.

    I have seen the little sufferings my SEI friend continually undergoes as they are simply each just being themselves. She receives a regular outpouring of the usual Supervisor's invalidations.

    An example is SEI's like to help. And these two have completely different approaches to what makes a home homey. She likes lots of bits of unrelated sentimental stuff. He likes sleek, super-organized, leaning toward modern-minimalist. Perfect surfaces. Everything away. She likes her tchotchke out, with it's variety visible at every turn.

    He is a carefully and systematically painted the kitchen, and she of course wanted to take part and help - so he assigned her the wall that the refrigerator would stand against! (I like to compliment her on the great job she did on that wall!) He did (by himself) a sleek remodel in granite and stainless; she hung a ruffled curtain at the window, and displayed things like an well-worn vintage family plate (and other unrelated things) on the counter.

    So it's the perfect compromise for this Supervision couple. Their home is neither Modern Minimalist nor Sentimental Tchotchke, but instead a somewhat discordant blend of both. So it will never be chosen for a magazine spread. Neither of them gets to live in a home exemplifying the cohesive form of what makes to them, a beautiful home, but, their home does reflect bits of both of them.

    To me they are an example of what Catholics believe is a main point of marriage - to to help each other get to Heaven. And you can see just in the instances of the above that they do give each other so many opportunities to grow in charity and patience, and to die to self while lifting up the other.

    In fact I think that is how they do it. Dying to self, day by day. I have watched them individually grow closer to God, as for each, that is a priority. And also together they have incorporated into their marriage more faith practices and more prayer life. And I have watched their marriage get even stronger and stronger. It is a 2nd marriage for both (about 15 years now?) and the the intertype supervision-tensions are evident, but, also evident is God's helping them through it. They truly are a model for how God can transform what seems to be a formula for an impossible marriage. The choose to put God first, and you cannot outgive God. God gives back with eh graces needed to make it work.

    This year they have both committed to regular Adoration in an increased committed schedule, during which they each keep prayer journals to God, and they are both positively glowing. I guess that is what inspired me to write about them. What is lacking in them - a great Intertype Relation - God truly has made up for.

    And below are two stories about them that make me laugh because they show them living and coping with the discordancies of Supervision.

    _____________________________

    My friend, like other SEI's I know, is extremely thrifty, to help stretch the family dollar (and they make a good dollar). He also is a very tight economizer - but then, he will splurge, like, the big sailboat that cost so much in time and money to dock and maintain. At first it got some use but because he works long, long hours [he is perfectly thorough in his work as in everything], they went several consecutive recent years without using it at all for pleasure, but they still had to annually, together, put in serious labor over a couple days in freezing Novembers to do the hard work to prepare it properly for winter storage. SEI dreaded these annual major work days in most unpleasant conditions. And then the huge storage fees. But he wasn't ready to sell it, and SEI's attempts at persuasion (as usual) fell on deaf ears. Finally - surprise, he decided to sell it, and boy, was SEI happy! (It is said, the two happiest days of a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell it.)

    So recently we ran into them at a Saturday noon Mass and we invited them to lunch, but they had to decline as they were to make a beeline for Sam's Club some miles even further from our town (the Church was about halfway) in order to save a few cents per gallon on gas, and their car at the moment was driving on fumes. I said to LSE that I really admired his vigilant efforts to save a dollar! SEI immediately chimed in, "Before you think it's too wonderful, remember the boat!" LOL.

    I am glad she can say her thing, even if he ignores it!

    Recently my husband walked to our local Mass, and SEI and LSE gave him a ride back. LSE regaled him with a (long) story about the many delays in a recent flight, and my husband remarked that he did not realize air travel had gotten this bad. LSE said, "That's not the worst of it. You should hear the story about my flight to California!" My husband answered, 'Well, I don't know if I have time for that...", and later he laughingly told me that SEI immediately piped up, from the back of the car, "Well, you're going to hear about it anyway!" And he did. I could just imagine her ironic grin and quiet voice, and his unfazed, determined face as he plunged ahead with what he planned to say anyway...

    He is invalidating, without meaning to be, and she has learned to see the humor in it.



    __________________________
    * In 398 AD, St. Augustine of Hippo wrote in his Confessions: “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you.”
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    thehotelambush's Avatar
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    My mother is LSI and my stepfather SEE. They have a good relationship and have been married for around 10 or 11 years now. From what I understand she appreciates his positivity and helps him to be a bit more organized and think things through.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default A Supervision Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    My mother is LSI and my stepfather SEE. They have a good relationship and have been married for around 10 or 11 years now. From what I understand she appreciates his positivity and helps him to be a bit more organized and think things through.
    I am reviving an old post here. (I am still interested in anyone's stories about successful bad intertype marriages, be they long or short stories!). I never saw this post from @thehotelambush til now.

    Re: SEE/LSI: Someone close in my life is SEE. She married LSI (well, living "like married"; the actual wedding keeps being postponed for practical reasons). Both have daughters close-in-age who are enjoying sisterhood and it's been a great family-making thing. But at first, immediately seeing he is LSI, and that this makes her the loser-end of Supervision, I was very afraid for her. Her mother, the tougher parent for her to relate to (and whose affections, interest and validation she is always chasing after) is LSI, and also so is her only sibling (though this Caesar has always imposed her place as eldest and always made a point to emphasize her Fi superiority). I made the mistake of hinting at this concern (she is not Socionics-knowledgeable and shows no interest, probably particularly now), I got scorchingly blown up at, the full load of SEE anger aimed at me, so I won't be making the mistake of interfering again, and I later realized she chose this LSI, and when a SEE chooses, they are devoted and fiercely loyal. (Generally persistently so, though SEEs I understand - and have witnessed - can also be capable of later wandering, usu. in the form of choosing a new, different partner).

    So the "marriage"/family life of this Supervision relation seems to be working well, and I think a part of that is she, being in the lower position of Supervision, is used to that with a LSI mom, and knows what to expect, and there is comfort in knowing what to expect. She gets some of that much-craved Mom-approval for her life now since her Mom respects the LSI husband-like BF. And BF is at least in the higher position of Supervision, happy with his role of main provider (she works full-time, too, for less pay) and after they were together began using large chunks of his time in another endeavor that does not pay, but he hopes will lead to pay someday as well as what I think he perceives as a more respected position in society than his blue-collar occupation).

    I saw that choice of his, at first, negatively (when your family is young, they should get the most time). But I realize that periods of separation in Supervision can help things a lot. Also in order to dedicate that time to the unpaid work shifts of his endeavor, SEE has had to pick up housekeeping/homemaking/cooking slack at home, something she is not naturally inclined to, but she accepts this role and is becoming better at the juggling necessary tasks to have a basic practical efficiency at supporting family life, and I admire her for that, especially because she would have been more than happy to hand over ALL these responsibilities to ANY volunteer.

    Also she is grateful for the financial stability that comes with a working partner and just a decent life partner in general because she had what my husband called a series of scumbag boyfriends previous to this, most of them with some addict issues, all far worse in addiction than she had in her previous addiction struggle. New LSI also had some addict issues he seems recovered from, and his previous wife had most-serious addictions, too, that continue to this day with only rare periods of temporary sobriety, usually imposed by the law, so that both SEE and LSI are quite happy and relieved with the sobriety and sanity of each other, making it easier, I guess, to overlook annoyances/problems of Supervision.

    I believe in the the validity of the theory of the four levels of marriage relations, explained in this link here, and I believe this SEE/LSI relation, after both having experienced the misery of past "1." relations, are now experiencing something on the far end of 2. or into 3. So they each both enjoying so much better than what they had before. "3" is not a bad place to be! I think bad intertype relations rarely achieve 4th level, but they can, I think, with a lot of of work and also also required, I personally believe, are miraculous graces from God, like I think has been the key to success in the LSE/SEI relation above.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 06-03-2021 at 01:02 AM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    It's possibly to look "good" and to feel bad there.
    Bad IR means - no friendship and no deep love (in common, as people have alien psyche). It does not mean obligately - they bark everyday, divorce, can't care about household and kids, etc.
    Bad IR pairs are not stable and people do lesser efforts to make them better when there are many other people a lot of who may be more personally pleasant. In lesser common case, if people in bad IR pair categorically decide to stay together and do serious efforts to care about each other - the may have surfacely good pair, but it's more doubtful to have good love feelings.

    As for cases - there are too many mistakes in types to trust what people report. A single different dichotomy of one human and bad IR may become good IR.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Don’t personally know of any successful marriages/long-term relationships that have bad intertype relations. “Successful” being defined as long-lasting with a decent degree of satisfaction and contentment between partners. There was one ILI-ESE marriage that seemed peaceful, but I never knew them beyond casual interaction.

    Most of the successful marriages I know have had these intertypes: duality, activity, identity, semi-duality, mirage.

    I know one Benefit pair (LSE-ILE) that has been happily married for decades. However, all other Benefit pairs I have known have had issues that led to separation after some time.

    Long-term couples/marriages I know of who are not so happy: kindred, supervision, extinguishment, conflict.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    I'm unclear as to what would be the definition of a "good" marriage. I've met just about every type combination in long-lasting relationships but duration is certainly no measure of happiness or contentment. I would label most relationships including duals as cohabitants who are dependent on and or habituated to one another but I've seen very few where both seemed truly happy after say 20 years. As well, very few were romantic beyond the first two years. I define a good marriage as remaining respectful and helpful to one another but this is often done while living separate lives.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Other than good ITR, I suppose things like good mental health and general success in life will help. If you have friends, a job you like, family you get on ok with, money..these things would likely make a bad ITR easier. If you have one of the better ITR and all those things listed, that sounds ok to me (in the grand scheme of things).

    At the moment I would consider the following ITR other than duality: (not necessarily in order)

    Super-ego, Illusionary, look-a-like, semi-dual, activity. (Kindred could be ok, not sure)

    But if I was a young person trying to balance meeting someone with starting a career..I think it would be just as important to focus on your education and career as it is to find the right person. One or the other, should set you up for success. If you end up in a bad ITR but with a good career, you ideally would have enough money to divorce. Or stay together if you like, but have money and a nice job which would help!
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-03-2021 at 03:01 PM.

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    Stray Cat's Avatar
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    Good marriages will quote: "We're so happy together"
    Bad marriages will quote: "We're so happy together"

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    What about attachment style? Supposedly two people with secure attachment style will be happier in a relationship than two people of non-secure attachment styles.

    Maybe a semi-dual with secure attachment style is better than a dual with insecure?
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-11-2021 at 10:08 AM.

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    BandD's Avatar
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    Well I think energy temperament compatibility is a huge thing. So for example I often get along quite well with IEEs even tho u guys are Heterosexual Angel Deltas and I'm a Homosexual Demon Beta. And EIEs, despite being in my quadra- we can often clash and I find them too prickly/harsh and they find me too soft and sensitive for them. I'd still probably rather date a EIE than IEE though... unless the IEE kind of cooled it with the Te moralizing (whether it be IEE religion or IEE PC state psychology stuff)

    Even a conflictor could be good if you were a person that didn't care much about sharing personal things with each other and didn't take things personally too much but that is kind of a stretch because often times the entire point of 'humanity' or 'being a human' is that we're all easily hurt over-sensitive snowflakes. Eventually, most people want sex and a relationship with intimacy.

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    Just realized another couple I know who have been together for a good deal of years are a Benefit marriage. He is LSI-Se, she is ILI-Ni. They’ve had a great deal of impact in their social sphere and have a lot of friends, many of whom are from Beta Quadra (EIE, SLE). In this respect, their dynamic is similar to an Activity marriage. The Benefactor husband seems to have a bit of a wandering eye, though I don’t know if he’s ever acted on this. Otherwise, they have a very sweet marriage.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 06-14-2021 at 12:45 AM.

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