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Thread: The Rise of Far Left Extremism

  1. #321
    Ni! coeruleum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    I don't think there's really some mass conspiracy of this sort. I think there's just a lot of ignorant, but well-intentioned people who really believe capitalism is the devil.
    The masses are ignorant but the elites actually do feel insecure about causing growth even if they'd actually benefit infinitely more from it (which is also not a conspiracy.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Ethnicity is the culture you belong to. It just gets confused for race because multicultural societies like to strongly imply that culture is only something that people who haven't had the Enlightenment have and confuse culture for the act of wearing a dashiki shirt (which is a shallow thing to do and no one would care if I wore one.)

    I'm not watching a whole 28 minute youtube video, so I'll just respond to your written statement: no, ethnicity and culture aren't the same thing.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Which is also stupid. If population growth was the real issue, then 2019 France (67 million people) would have fewer freedoms and a lower standard of living than 1600 France (20 million people).
    It is not just about population numbers though. It is clear now more than ever that you are not going to change your mind on this and that you are convinced you are 100% correct. I will follow the 90/10 rule in that I think there is a 90% chance I am right on this, but a 10% chance you are correct and I am wrong. I really hope you are right because it looks like most 1st world nations are heading in the direction you want.

    So if I am wrong and we are heading to an advanced multi-ethnic/multicultural utopia in the 1st world and even the 3rd world to a lesser extent then I can rest easy. Knowing that my great great great grandchildren will live in a great future world. However, if I am correct then I can only fear and worry for the dreadful future that our descendants will have to endure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    It is not just about population numbers though. It is clear now more than ever that you are not going to change your mind on this and that you are convinced you are 100% correct. I will follow the 90/10 rule in that I think there is a 90% chance I am right on this, but a 10% chance you are correct and I am wrong. I really hope you are right because it looks like most 1st world nations are heading in the direction you want.

    So if I am wrong and we are heading to an advanced multi-ethnic/multicultural utopia in the 1st world and even the 3rd world to a lesser extent then I can rest easy. Knowing that my great great great grandchildren will live in a great future world. However, if I am correct then I can only fear and worry for the dreadful future that our descendants will have to endure.
    I think they'll be fine. There's no need to preserve anachronistic 19th century ideas into the 22nd century.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I think they'll be fine. There's no need to preserve anachronistic 19th century ideas into the 22nd century.
    Fair enough. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. It is clear that this argument has been beaten like a dead horse. Like I said before, I really hope that you're right and I'm wrong for future generations' sake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I'm not watching a whole 28 minute youtube video, so I'll just respond to your written statement: no, ethnicity and culture aren't the same thing.
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    A question for the race realists: would you rather live in a neighborhood with Thomas Sowell as your next-door neighbor, or in one with Cletus the white meth addict as your next-door neighbor?
    Are those my only choices?

    I haven't read Sowell for years, but I think I remember him as an idiot. Cletus the white meth addict also sounds unpleasant, but for different reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    All that and yet Raver's shucking and jiving ass wants to speak about the rise of "left wing terrorists." GTFOH. Like I said the first time, I have absolutely no patience for his intellectual dishonesty. For anyone with more than 3 fully functioning brain cells, it's more than obvious who and what entities comprise an ACTUAL threat.
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."

    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes. In other words, a black man is literally thousands of times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a white man, let alone a white man who also identifies as a white supremacist.

    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."

    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes. In other words, a black man is literally thousands of times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a white man, let alone a white man who also identifies as a white supremacist.

    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.
    Doesn't sound like it:

    Interracial Crime Study Finds Whites More Likely to Assault Blacks Than the Reverse

    Also let's not forget that the police that are actually shooting and killing innocent black people.

    "X race has high crime rates - therefore, X race has some sort of defective 'violent genes'" is a typical playbook by the far-right racists.

    All these "We should restrict immigrants by race or ethnicity" arguments are also obviously far-right racialist arguments, no doubt about it.

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    "assault" is a specific kind of crime, whereas I was referring to general crime/ hate crime, both of which can include far more than mere assault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    "assault" is a specific kind of crime, whereas I was referring to general crime/ hate crime, both of which can include far more than mere assault.
    Whites are more likely to assault or use weapons against Blacks/Hispanics than the other way around.

    White-on-White crimes are most likely to be assaults, while White-on-Black crimes are more likely to involve robbery, assault and weapons use.

    Blacks/Hispanics are more likely to commit robbery against Whites than the other way around.

    Blacks/Hispanics are less likely to assault Whites, and more likely to commit robbery against Whites.

    A little race bias there?

    Whites are more likely to assault and use weapons against Blacks and Hispanics than Blacks and Hispanics are to assault or use weapons against Whites. On the other hand, Blacks and Hispanics are typically more likely to commit robbery (crimes which we characterize as being often related to economic motives) against Whites than the reverse.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44818818301194

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.
    The United States has many different ethnicities sharing a common American history, literature, and art; the same is true in many countries that are built on a foundation of civic nationalism. In an ethnostate premised on ethnic nationalism, there is a deliberate conflation between culture and ethnicity; there it becomes the dominant groupthink, set in stone by government policy, and endlessly rammed down your throat by propaganda.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Even if they achieve a 100% ethnostate (a near impossibility), they will likely start a campaign of an even grander "purification" and start claiming who the "real" X race or ethnicity are (namely, those who share the same approved far-right beliefs).

    No matter how you put it, an ethnostate is a road towards fascism and authoritarianism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Whites are more likely to assault or use weapons against Blacks/Hispanics than the other way around.

    White-on-White crimes are most likely to be assaults, while White-on-Black crimes are more likely to involve robbery, assault and weapons use.

    Blacks/Hispanics are more likely to commit robbery against Whites than the other way around.

    Blacks/Hispanics are less likely to assault Whites, and more likely to commit robbery against Whites.

    A little race bias there?


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44818818301194
    You've sure got some neat pointers there, though I'm not sure about their relevance to the discussion considering that none of them are even remotely inconsistent with anything I've said. Do you want to provide any stats pertaining to race and rape/ sexual assault or do you just like to provide random statistics without being able to explain how they're even remotely relevant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."
    This simply has to do with the statistical reality of there being way more Whites than Blacks, and hence Blacks are more likely to come into contact with Whites, than the other way around:

    The argument that black people who commit crimes are specifically seeking out white victims is simply not true. In an article in the American Journal of Sociology, for example, sociologist Robert M. O’Brien pointed out that population size and the impact of segregation help explain why overall rates of black-on-white crimes are higher than white-on-black crimes. Essentially, black people are far more likely to come into contact with white people in the course of their daily life than the other way around
    https://www.splcenter.org/20180614/b...ck-white-crime

    However, the far-right spin is to say that blacks are deliberately targeting whites, which is not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes.
    This is simply not true, disproportionate amount of blacks suffer at the hands of hate crimes than whites:

    The majority of those crimes were driven by hatred against black and Jewish people, but they also included crimes against people for being gay, Muslim, Hispanic, and other identifiers. Several hundred crimes were coded as being anti-white, although those appeared at a far lower rate than the percentage of the United States population that is white. (Eighteen percent of race-based hate crimes reported to the FBI last year were anti-white, while whites make up 77 percent of the U.S. population. Compare that to black Americans, who make up 13 percent of the country, but suffered 49 percent of reported race-based hate crimes.)
    https://psmag.com/news/anti-black-an...or-hate-crimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.
    Maybe because it actually is on the rise:



    But nice attempt at a spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.
    Exactly, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of 1st generation immigrants will never fully integrate into the nation they move in aside from a small minority (if they immigrated to the country at under age 10 or so) and the vast majority of 2nd generation immigrants will fully integrate into the nation they move in to. The solution is obvious if the goal is striving for a multi-ethnic/monocultural society and that is cut down immigration in half at some point in the near future (to let in only highly skilled professionals) rather than a good percentage of it being comprised of cheap labor and eventually bringing it down to zero some time within this century.

    Continuing with this current trend of mass immigration in Europe and high legal immigration into Canada and high illegal immigration into the US is a recipe for disaster. In order for 1st world nation to retain their high standard of living and their culture then the number of 1st generation immigrants needs to be far lower than 2nd generation immigrants, which cutting down immigration in half would do and eventually there needs to be near zero immigration in order to retain the current standard of living and culture. Even if we assume the genetic differences between different groups of people are too minor to make a difference then this still needs to be done IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    This is simply not true, disproportionate amount of blacks suffer at the hands of hate crimes than whites:
    Blacks can be more likely to commit black on white hate crimes compared to the other way around, and at the same time, blacks can still be more likely to be a victim of hate crimes in general. In any event, I was merely referring to the fact that, according to the FBI, a disproportionate number of blacks are committing hate crimes when compared to whites.

    Per the FBI's website:

    "In 2016, race was reported for 5,770 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

    • 46.3 percent were White.


    • 26.1 percent were Black or African American.



    In 2015, race was reported for 5,493 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

    • 48.4 percent were White.


    • 24.3 percent were Black or African American."



    When taking into account population sizes (72.4% white and 12.6% black, according to wiki) blacks are suddenly significantly more likely to commit hate crimes than whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Maybe because it actually is on the rise:
    Hate crimes in which race was reported comprise of roughly .005% of all violent crime in the US (even less if we consider that not all hate crimes are necessarily violent), and this number has remained fairly constant these past few years (.0051% of all violent crime in 2017 compared to .0045% in both 2016 and 2015). Even if you want to focus exclusively on an increase so marginal that it doesn't even appear when rounding to the 3rd decimal, blacks are still more likely to commit this very small percentage of crime than whites when taking into account population sizes.

    Despite these facts, for whatever reason the left has embraced "white supremacy" as a major talking point. Honestly, it'd be statistically equivalent if 1000 healthy people died of the the flu last year compared to 1500 healthy people dying of the flue this year -- the whopping 50% increase might look scary if you posted a graph while also arguing that it's the "Spanish swine flu all over again", though any which way you want to spin it the numbers are still insignificant when looking at the larger picture, meaning that if anything I'd still be far more concerned about heart disease.

  18. #338

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1026561

    "We are fast approaching the point where Congress exists as little more than a formality to legitimize outcomes dictated by the president, the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader," said Amash, the son of a Palestinian immigrant.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.0eb4da6a68a5
    Last edited by soulless ginger mutant; Yesterday at 11:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Are those my only choices?

    I haven't read Sowell for years, but I think I remember him as an idiot. Cletus the white meth addict also sounds unpleasant, but for different reasons.
    Yeah, but Sowell probably won’t steal your TV to sell for drug money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Blacks can be more likely to commit black on white hate crimes compared to the other way around,
    First off, blacks are less likely to commit hate crimes against whites than the other way around.

    Again, when we're talking about crimes in general, this only has to do with the fact that statistically, there are more whites than blacks, therefore blacks are more likely to come into contact with whites. It's not as if blacks are targeting whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    In any event, I was merely referring to the fact that, according to the FBI, a disproportionate number of blacks are committing hate crimes when compared to whites
    You said that there are more black-on-white hate crimes than white-on-black hate crimes, which is not true.

    Black-on-white hate crime is 18%
    White-on-black hate crime is 49%

    of total race-based hate crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Hate crimes in which race was reported comprise of roughly .005% of all violent crime in the US (even less if we consider that not all hate crimes are necessarily violent), and this number has remained fairly constant these past few years (.0051% of all violent crime in 2017 compared to .0045% in both 2016 and 2015). Even if you want to focus exclusively on an increase so marginal that it doesn't even appear when rounding to the 3rd decimal, blacks are still more likely to commit this very small percentage of crime than whites when taking into account population sizes.
    So when you go to another country and face discrimination for being white, then that should be ignored because whites are a minority therefore it only comprises a small number of the total victims, therefore it should be ignored. Nice logic.

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    Trump: *Says something racist*.
    Everyone: That's racist.
    Right-wingers, Trump base: Identitarian politics! Far-left extremists! Playing the race card! America-hating Socialists!
    Trump: *clap, clap, clap*

    Trump knows what he's doing. Trump base are doing their thing, and gullible bystanders are eating it all up.

    This is all just a distraction for the 2020 election, because Trump doesn't any have results or good policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    Yeah, but Sowell probably won’t steal your TV to sell for drug money.
    Sowell does something worse. He plants incorrect and misleading information in the minds of a great many people, to the eventual detriment of good solutions to problems. A TV I can replace (if I had one, which I don't), but it is much, much harder to change a sea of ignorance or, worse, the minds of people who think they are right but are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Trump: *Says something racist*.
    Everyone: That's racist.
    Right-wingers, Trump base: Identitarian politics! Far-left extremists! Playing the race card! America-hating Socialists!
    Trump: *clap, clap, clap*

    Trump knows what he's doing. Trump base are doing their thing, and gullible bystanders are eating it all up.

    This is all just a distraction for the 2020 election, because Trump doesn't any have results or good policies.
    I used to wonder who in the world voted for Hitler in Nazi Germany. Turns out it was ordinary citizens who were also racists. Interesting that no society seems to be free of these people.

    It's almost as if there is some evolutionary advantage to having a large portion of the population be racist. Just as there is some evolutionary advantage to having some part of the population be gay.

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