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Thread: The Rise of Far Left Extremism

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    I don't think there's really some mass conspiracy of this sort. I think there's just a lot of ignorant, but well-intentioned people who really believe capitalism is the devil.
    The masses are ignorant but the elites actually do feel insecure about causing growth even if they'd actually benefit infinitely more from it (which is also not a conspiracy.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Ethnicity is the culture you belong to. It just gets confused for race because multicultural societies like to strongly imply that culture is only something that people who haven't had the Enlightenment have and confuse culture for the act of wearing a dashiki shirt (which is a shallow thing to do and no one would care if I wore one.)

    I'm not watching a whole 28 minute youtube video, so I'll just respond to your written statement: no, ethnicity and culture aren't the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Which is also stupid. If population growth was the real issue, then 2019 France (67 million people) would have fewer freedoms and a lower standard of living than 1600 France (20 million people).
    It is not just about population numbers though. It is clear now more than ever that you are not going to change your mind on this and that you are convinced you are 100% correct. I will follow the 90/10 rule in that I think there is a 90% chance I am right on this, but a 10% chance you are correct and I am wrong. I really hope you are right because it looks like most 1st world nations are heading in the direction you want.

    So if I am wrong and we are heading to an advanced multi-ethnic/multicultural utopia in the 1st world and even the 3rd world to a lesser extent then I can rest easy. Knowing that my great great great grandchildren will live in a great future world. However, if I am correct then I can only fear and worry for the dreadful future that our descendants will have to endure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    It is not just about population numbers though. It is clear now more than ever that you are not going to change your mind on this and that you are convinced you are 100% correct. I will follow the 90/10 rule in that I think there is a 90% chance I am right on this, but a 10% chance you are correct and I am wrong. I really hope you are right because it looks like most 1st world nations are heading in the direction you want.

    So if I am wrong and we are heading to an advanced multi-ethnic/multicultural utopia in the 1st world and even the 3rd world to a lesser extent then I can rest easy. Knowing that my great great great grandchildren will live in a great future world. However, if I am correct then I can only fear and worry for the dreadful future that our descendants will have to endure.
    I think they'll be fine. There's no need to preserve anachronistic 19th century ideas into the 22nd century.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I think they'll be fine. There's no need to preserve anachronistic 19th century ideas into the 22nd century.
    Fair enough. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. It is clear that this argument has been beaten like a dead horse. Like I said before, I really hope that you're right and I'm wrong for future generations' sake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I'm not watching a whole 28 minute youtube video, so I'll just respond to your written statement: no, ethnicity and culture aren't the same thing.
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    A question for the race realists: would you rather live in a neighborhood with Thomas Sowell as your next-door neighbor, or in one with Cletus the white meth addict as your next-door neighbor?
    Are those my only choices?

    I haven't read Sowell for years, but I think I remember him as an idiot. Cletus the white meth addict also sounds unpleasant, but for different reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    All that and yet Raver's shucking and jiving ass wants to speak about the rise of "left wing terrorists." GTFOH. Like I said the first time, I have absolutely no patience for his intellectual dishonesty. For anyone with more than 3 fully functioning brain cells, it's more than obvious who and what entities comprise an ACTUAL threat.
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."

    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes. In other words, a black man is literally thousands of times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a white man, let alone a white man who also identifies as a white supremacist.

    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."

    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes. In other words, a black man is literally thousands of times more likely to be killed by another black man than by a white man, let alone a white man who also identifies as a white supremacist.

    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.
    Doesn't sound like it:

    Interracial Crime Study Finds Whites More Likely to Assault Blacks Than the Reverse

    Also let's not forget that the police that are actually shooting and killing innocent black people.

    "X race has high crime rates - therefore, X race has some sort of defective 'violent genes'" is a typical playbook by the far-right racists.

    All these "We should restrict immigrants by race or ethnicity" arguments are also obviously far-right racialist arguments, no doubt about it.

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    "assault" is a specific kind of crime, whereas I was referring to general crime/ hate crime, both of which can include far more than mere assault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    "assault" is a specific kind of crime, whereas I was referring to general crime/ hate crime, both of which can include far more than mere assault.
    Whites are more likely to assault or use weapons against Blacks/Hispanics than the other way around.

    White-on-White crimes are most likely to be assaults, while White-on-Black crimes are more likely to involve robbery, assault and weapons use.

    Blacks/Hispanics are more likely to commit robbery against Whites than the other way around.

    Blacks/Hispanics are less likely to assault Whites, and more likely to commit robbery against Whites.

    A little race bias there?

    Whites are more likely to assault and use weapons against Blacks and Hispanics than Blacks and Hispanics are to assault or use weapons against Whites. On the other hand, Blacks and Hispanics are typically more likely to commit robbery (crimes which we characterize as being often related to economic motives) against Whites than the reverse.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44818818301194

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.
    The United States has many different ethnicities sharing a common American history, literature, and art; the same is true in many countries that are built on a foundation of civic nationalism. In an ethnostate premised on ethnic nationalism, there is a deliberate conflation between culture and ethnicity; there it becomes the dominant groupthink, set in stone by government policy, and endlessly rammed down your throat by propaganda.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Even if they achieve a 100% ethnostate (a near impossibility), they will likely start a campaign of an even grander "purification" and start claiming who the "real" X race or ethnicity are (namely, those who share the same approved far-right beliefs).

    No matter how you put it, an ethnostate is a road towards fascism and authoritarianism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Whites are more likely to assault or use weapons against Blacks/Hispanics than the other way around.

    White-on-White crimes are most likely to be assaults, while White-on-Black crimes are more likely to involve robbery, assault and weapons use.

    Blacks/Hispanics are more likely to commit robbery against Whites than the other way around.

    Blacks/Hispanics are less likely to assault Whites, and more likely to commit robbery against Whites.

    A little race bias there?


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44818818301194
    You've sure got some neat pointers there, though I'm not sure about their relevance to the discussion considering that none of them are even remotely inconsistent with anything I've said. Do you want to provide any stats pertaining to race and rape/ sexual assault or do you just like to provide random statistics without being able to explain how they're even remotely relevant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    I think it's intellectually dishonest to focus solely on "extremism" as opposed to crime in general. The fact is that the vast majority of violent crime is intraracial (occurring between members of the same race). Of the interracial crime that does occur, a disproportionate mount of this crime is black on white. Of the white on black crime that does occur, the vast majority of these incidents do not qualify as "hate crimes."
    This simply has to do with the statistical reality of there being way more Whites than Blacks, and hence Blacks are more likely to come into contact with Whites, than the other way around:

    The argument that black people who commit crimes are specifically seeking out white victims is simply not true. In an article in the American Journal of Sociology, for example, sociologist Robert M. O’Brien pointed out that population size and the impact of segregation help explain why overall rates of black-on-white crimes are higher than white-on-black crimes. Essentially, black people are far more likely to come into contact with white people in the course of their daily life than the other way around
    https://www.splcenter.org/20180614/b...ck-white-crime

    However, the far-right spin is to say that blacks are deliberately targeting whites, which is not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    White on black "hate crimes" are thus a minority of a minority of a minority, comprising of <.01% of total crime in general, and even occurring less often than black on white "hate crimes" when taking into account population sizes.
    This is simply not true, disproportionate amount of blacks suffer at the hands of hate crimes than whites:

    The majority of those crimes were driven by hatred against black and Jewish people, but they also included crimes against people for being gay, Muslim, Hispanic, and other identifiers. Several hundred crimes were coded as being anti-white, although those appeared at a far lower rate than the percentage of the United States population that is white. (Eighteen percent of race-based hate crimes reported to the FBI last year were anti-white, while whites make up 77 percent of the U.S. population. Compare that to black Americans, who make up 13 percent of the country, but suffered 49 percent of reported race-based hate crimes.)
    https://psmag.com/news/anti-black-an...or-hate-crimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.
    Maybe because it actually is on the rise:



    But nice attempt at a spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    Of course you can engage a culture without belonging to it. Open cultures exist. What do you define ethnicity as? "Ethnic food" is a common way to refer to the food of other cultures and the term clearly has nothing to do with people's race. Eating a ton of Italian food won't make me Italian, but moving to Italy could make me Italian, and I wouldn't change my ancestry in either case.
    Exactly, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of 1st generation immigrants will never fully integrate into the nation they move in aside from a small minority (if they immigrated to the country at under age 10 or so) and the vast majority of 2nd generation immigrants will fully integrate into the nation they move in to. The solution is obvious if the goal is striving for a multi-ethnic/monocultural society and that is cut down immigration in half at some point in the near future (to let in only highly skilled professionals) rather than a good percentage of it being comprised of cheap labor and eventually bringing it down to zero some time within this century.

    Continuing with this current trend of mass immigration in Europe and high legal immigration into Canada and high illegal immigration into the US is a recipe for disaster. In order for 1st world nation to retain their high standard of living and their culture then the number of 1st generation immigrants needs to be far lower than 2nd generation immigrants, which cutting down immigration in half would do and eventually there needs to be near zero immigration in order to retain the current standard of living and culture. Even if we assume the genetic differences between different groups of people are too minor to make a difference then this still needs to be done IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    This is simply not true, disproportionate amount of blacks suffer at the hands of hate crimes than whites:
    Blacks can be more likely to commit black on white hate crimes compared to the other way around, and at the same time, blacks can still be more likely to be a victim of hate crimes in general. In any event, I was merely referring to the fact that, according to the FBI, a disproportionate number of blacks are committing hate crimes when compared to whites.

    Per the FBI's website:

    "In 2016, race was reported for 5,770 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

    • 46.3 percent were White.


    • 26.1 percent were Black or African American.



    In 2015, race was reported for 5,493 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

    • 48.4 percent were White.


    • 24.3 percent were Black or African American."



    When taking into account population sizes (72.4% white and 12.6% black, according to wiki) blacks are suddenly significantly more likely to commit hate crimes than whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Maybe because it actually is on the rise:
    Hate crimes in which race was reported comprise of roughly .005% of all violent crime in the US (even less if we consider that not all hate crimes are necessarily violent), and this number has remained fairly constant these past few years (.0051% of all violent crime in 2017 compared to .0045% in both 2016 and 2015). Even if you want to focus exclusively on an increase so marginal that it doesn't even appear when rounding to the 3rd decimal, blacks are still more likely to commit this very small percentage of crime than whites when taking into account population sizes.

    Despite these facts, for whatever reason the left has embraced "white supremacy" as a major talking point. Honestly, it'd be statistically equivalent if 1000 healthy people died of the the flu last year compared to 1500 healthy people dying of the flue this year -- the whopping 50% increase might look scary if you posted a graph while also arguing that it's the "Spanish swine flu all over again", though any which way you want to spin it the numbers are still insignificant when looking at the larger picture, meaning that if anything I'd still be far more concerned about heart disease.

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1026561

    "We are fast approaching the point where Congress exists as little more than a formality to legitimize outcomes dictated by the president, the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader," said Amash, the son of a Palestinian immigrant.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.0eb4da6a68a5
    Last edited by soulless ginger mutant; 07-20-2019 at 11:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Are those my only choices?

    I haven't read Sowell for years, but I think I remember him as an idiot. Cletus the white meth addict also sounds unpleasant, but for different reasons.
    Yeah, but Sowell probably won’t steal your TV to sell for drug money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Blacks can be more likely to commit black on white hate crimes compared to the other way around,
    First off, blacks are less likely to commit hate crimes against whites than the other way around.

    Again, when we're talking about crimes in general, this only has to do with the fact that statistically, there are more whites than blacks, therefore blacks are more likely to come into contact with whites. It's not as if blacks are targeting whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    In any event, I was merely referring to the fact that, according to the FBI, a disproportionate number of blacks are committing hate crimes when compared to whites
    You said that there are more black-on-white hate crimes than white-on-black hate crimes, which is not true.

    Black-on-white hate crime is 18%
    White-on-black hate crime is 49%

    of total race-based hate crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Hate crimes in which race was reported comprise of roughly .005% of all violent crime in the US (even less if we consider that not all hate crimes are necessarily violent), and this number has remained fairly constant these past few years (.0051% of all violent crime in 2017 compared to .0045% in both 2016 and 2015). Even if you want to focus exclusively on an increase so marginal that it doesn't even appear when rounding to the 3rd decimal, blacks are still more likely to commit this very small percentage of crime than whites when taking into account population sizes.
    So when you go to another country and face discrimination for being white, then that should be ignored because whites are a minority therefore it only comprises a small number of the total victims, therefore it should be ignored. Nice logic.

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    Trump: *Says something racist*.
    Everyone: That's racist.
    Right-wingers, Trump base: Identitarian politics! Far-left extremists! Playing the race card! America-hating Socialists!
    Trump: *clap, clap, clap*

    Trump knows what he's doing. Trump base are doing their thing, and gullible bystanders are eating it all up.

    This is all just a distraction for the 2020 election, because Trump doesn't any have results or good policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    Yeah, but Sowell probably won’t steal your TV to sell for drug money.
    Sowell does something worse. He plants incorrect and misleading information in the minds of a great many people, to the eventual detriment of good solutions to problems. A TV I can replace (if I had one, which I don't), but it is much, much harder to change a sea of ignorance or, worse, the minds of people who think they are right but are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Trump: *Says something racist*.
    Everyone: That's racist.
    Right-wingers, Trump base: Identitarian politics! Far-left extremists! Playing the race card! America-hating Socialists!
    Trump: *clap, clap, clap*

    Trump knows what he's doing. Trump base are doing their thing, and gullible bystanders are eating it all up.

    This is all just a distraction for the 2020 election, because Trump doesn't any have results or good policies.
    I used to wonder who in the world voted for Hitler in Nazi Germany. Turns out it was ordinary citizens who were also racists. Interesting that no society seems to be free of these people.

    It's almost as if there is some evolutionary advantage to having a large portion of the population be racist. Just as there is some evolutionary advantage to having some part of the population be gay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I used to wonder who in the world voted for Hitler in Nazi Germany. Turns out it was ordinary citizens who were also racists. Interesting that no society seems to be free of these people.

    It's almost as if there is some evolutionary advantage to having a large portion of the population be racist. Just as there is some evolutionary advantage to having some part of the population be gay.
    Hitler's rise to power is rather complex and nuanced. When Germany lost WW1 they lost the colonies they had previously under the German Empire, which mean't losing access to markets and thus falling rates of profit for big business. Capitalism drives nations towards aggressive expansion due to what's know as the "crisis of over-production". In capitalism productivity steadily increases, but wages do not. People end up not having enough money to buy all the extra goods being produced and prices fall. When prices fall, big business freaks out and seek to expand aboard to maintain demand for their goods. This is what drives colonization and most wars in the modern era.

    Hitler was only one cog in the machine that made WW2 and the holocaust happen. He was financially backed by a ring of industrial conglomerates due to his expansionist views and being anti-communist (communism was very prevalent in Germany at that time and posed a real active threat to big business). The racism and anti-semitic conspiracy theories was a means to provide an alternative explanation for the conditions that plagued German workers and turn people against communism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    You said that there are more black-on-white hate crimes than white-on-black hate crimes, which is not true.
    As I already mentioned, the comment was merely alluding to the fact that blacks are significantly more likely to commit hate crimes than whites, which is 100% true based on the FBI figures I cited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Black-on-white hate crime is 18%
    White-on-black hate crime is 49%
    Did you even read the source that you provided? I don't mean to be condescending or patronizing with this question -- I merely ask because it's not exactly clear where you're getting these specific numbers from, and thus it's tempting to assume that they're coming from this quote here because it just happens to mention both 18% and 49% (my advanced apologies if this is merely a coincidence). "Eighteen percent of race-based hate crimes reported to the FBI last year were anti-white, while whites make up 77 percent of the U.S. population. Compare that to black Americans, who make up 13 percent of the country, but suffered 49 percent of reported race-based hate crimes."

    Contrary to your post, these numbers are not a reflection of either black on white hate crime or white on black hate crime, and as such, are not remotely inconsistent with any of my claims. Blacks can suffer 49% of race-based hate crimes (again, there's nothing to suggest that whites are solely accountable for this 49% figure that you've taken upon yourself to cite), and at the same time blacks can still be far more likely to commit hate crimes than whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    So when you go to another country and face discrimination for being white, then that should be ignored because whites are a minority therefore it only comprises a small number of the total victims, therefore it should be ignored. Nice logic.
    You can spin it however you want, but I can honestly say that if I travel to another country then I'll be thankful if their hate crime numbers are on par with the US. In short, the overall number of hate crimes is exceedingly low when compared to crime in general, hate crime in general has remained fairly constant over the years in terms of its overall percentage of violent crime, and contrary to the left's narrative about "white supremacy", hate crimes are also more likely to be committed by blacks than by whites.

    Anyways, it's been a nice chatting with ya bud, but at this point you're struggling immensely to understand your own sources, and are either making up random numbers or otherwise failing to explain how you've obtained them... and all while commending me for my "logic" which you've taken upon yourself to characterize. You can keep trying if you want to but at this point I'll likely be replying with a friendly X D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I used to wonder who in the world voted for Hitler in Nazi Germany. Turns out it was ordinary citizens who were also racists. Interesting that no society seems to be free of these people.

    It's almost as if there is some evolutionary advantage to having a large portion of the population be racist. Just as there is some evolutionary advantage to having some part of the population be gay.
    I don't deny that almost anyone can potentially be a racist, because this is about deciding who the friends and who the enemies are. I bet most of the racists would stop being racists if they thought that those races were "friends". I think racists are just more sensitive to knowing who the friends and the enemies are. And they can't use their rationality to conclude that it's erroneous to attribute certain characteristics to an entire race.

    But if they're supremacists, then that's a different matter and their idea on superiority needs to be attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    As I already mentioned, the comment was merely alluding to the fact that blacks are significantly more likely to commit hate crimes than whites, which is 100% true based on the FBI figures I cited.
    This is likely because as you've said, the number of hate crimes are low compared to the overall population, which is 6370. So statistically it tips the scale of the total percentage more easily.

    This is the actual number of hate crimes by race:

    Blacks: 1356 (21.3%)
    Whites: 3299 (50.7%)

    adjusted for population size:

    Blacks: 802 (12.6%) -554
    Whites: 3866 (60.7%) +567

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/...ages/offenders

    So adjusted to actual population, it's an error margin of ±500. Now 500 could be significant, or it could not. But the fact is that 500 cases could change as much as 10%.

    Your claim that "blacks are significantly more likely to commit hate crimes than whites" is simply not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Capitalism in its historical sense has been a form of socialism for the wealthy. The law protects rich people far better than it does the poor. The fundamental basis of law in the USA for example is based around property rights. No property? Not so many rights.
    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
    Gods and men name her Aphrodite...Cyprus-born, because she was born in wave-dashed Cyprus; and lover of smiles, because she emerged out of the genitals.

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    Nothing to add, just shoutout to @Raver for being a boss on here as usual and good leader of controversial discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Even if they achieve a 100% ethnostate (a near impossibility), they will likely start a campaign of an even grander "purification" and start claiming who the "real" X race or ethnicity are (namely, those who share the same approved far-right beliefs).

    No matter how you put it, an ethnostate is a road towards fascism and authoritarianism.
    There are many factors, like extremeness. Contrast North Korea with Japan.

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    sometimes imitated but never duplicated: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1346370

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deprecator View Post
    Meanwhile, despite the absurdly low numbers when looking at crime in general, the left is still OBSESSED with white supremacy; constantly droning on and on about its dangers, constantly parroting that it's "on the rise", super desperate to identify people who disagree with them as "secret white supremacists".... heck there are even those willing to make equivalencies between white hoods and MAGA hats. Collectively this leads me to believe that the left operates by means of intellectual extortion; either agree with us or be prepared to be lambasted as a nazi/ racist/ white supremacist.
    What's intellectually dishonest is not acknowledging that tiki torch carrying bigots and all of those similarly inclined comprise only a [rather explicit] subdivision of white supremacy and exist within an overarching system of centuries old, deeply embedded structural racism that, in addition to a current US administration hellbent on rolling back human/civil rights for marginalized communities, altogether form a very real existential threat to certain Americans, as evidenced by >


    • Republican governors and GOP-majority state legislatures deploying an array of voter-suppression tactics, including closing hundreds of polling stations in minority and low-income precincts, slashing early voting hours, reinstating poll taxes, mandating discriminatory voter ID laws and purging millions from the voter rolls.
    • Extreme gerrymandered Congressional districts across the United States that violate the basic Constitutional concept of “one person, one vote" by diluting the electoral strength of large, racially diverse cities, and magnifying the power of overwhelmingly white suburbs and sparsely populated rural areas.
    • Imposing a travel ban on people travelling from Muslim majority countries to separating children from their parents at the Mexican border to denying the rights of people seeking asylum.
    • What about the fact that white families hold 90% of the national wealth, Latino families hold 2.3%, and black families hold 2.6% and the wealth gap is only increasing. It’s next to impossible to build wealth without steady and rewarding employment. But the black unemployment rate has been consistently twice that of whites African-Americans are 2x as likely to be unemployed. over the past 60 years, no matter what has been going on with the economy (whether it’s been up or down). Hmm, maybe higher education would help with that? Well, according to the data, blacks with college degrees are twice as likely to be unemployed as all other graduates. That may be because, as one study found, job applicants with white-sounding names get called back about 50% more of the time than applicants with black-sounding names, even when they have identical resumes.
    • How about the fact that while black children constitute 18% of preschoolers nationwide, Black students are 3x more likely than white students to be suspended for the same infractions. they make up nearly 50% of suspensions. When all age groups are examined, black students are three times more likely to be suspended than white students, even when their infractions are similar. Overall, black students represent 16% of student enrollment and 27% of students referred to law enforcement. And once black children are in the criminal justice system, they are 18 times more likely than white children to be sentenced as adults.
    • How about the fact a 2012 study found that a majority of doctors have “unconscious racial biases” when it comes to their black patients. One study found that 67% of doctors have a bias against African-American patients. Black Americans are far more likely than whites to lack access to emergency medical care. The hospitals they go to tend to be less well funded, and staffed by practitioners with less experience. But even black doctors face discrimination: they are less likely than their similarly credentialed white peers to receive government grants for research projects.


    • What about the redlining that essentially barred blacks and other minorities from sharing in the American Dream and building wealth like their white counterparts, and although it was officially outlawed in the ’60s, the practice has still persisted. In fact, during the Great Recession, banks routinely and purposely guided black home buyers toward subprime loans. A recent study demonstrated that people of color are told about and shown fewer homes and apartments than whites. Black ownership is now at an all-time low (42%, compared to 72% for whites).
    • Given all of the above, is it shocking that blacks make up 13% of the population yet 40% of the prison population? Perhaps because if a black person and a white person each commit a crime, the black person has a better chance of being arrested. It’s also true that, once arrested, black people are convicted more often than white people. And for many years, laws assigned much harsher sentences for using or possessing crack, for example, compared to cocaine. Finally, when black people are convicted, they are about 20% more likely to be sentenced to jail time, and typically see sentences 20% longer than those for whites who were convicted of similar crimes. And as we know, a felony conviction means, in many states, that you lose your right to vote. Right now in America, more than 7.4% of the adult African American population is disenfranchised (compared to 1.8% of the non-African American population).


    The facts don't give a fuck about your feelings, dude. White Supremacy is pervasive, it's just that the most colorful aspects of it get the most attention. But they are just the more ostensible, readily beheld symptoms of a systemic cancer melded to the bones of the country. When right wingers hurl accusations of "anti-white hatred" and "white guilt" at liberals, it makes me laugh to keep from crying because all they are doing is projecting. The right wing has done more to stifle, debase, disenfranchise and dehumanize than any other American demographic and so it's fitting that they project their guilt on those who seek to fight for and defend the disenfranchised. Moreover, though I don't think the vast majority of the American public is explicitly racist, a lot of people implicitly and unknowingly support racist and bigoted systems and institutions put into place centuries ago, which only exacerbates white supremacy; and the motherfuckers with the tiki torches and MAGA hats, in particular, actively want this. Sounds like you're mad that we actively and accurately call a thing, a thing.

    @Singu You're the real MVP of this thread. Well done.

    @Raver aka Tio Tomas, keep on tap dancing bruh (or sleepily strumming your guitarron), you're doing amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    @Raver aka Tio Tomas, keep on tap dancing bruh (or sleepily strumming your guitarron), you're doing amazing.
    There's two sides of every story and each one is credible. I am just trying to acknowledge both by highlighting one that is often ignored, while others can bring up the other side themselves:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    There's two sides of every story and each one is credible. I am just trying to acknowledge both by highlighting one that is often ignored, while others can bring up the other side themselves:
    lol Still resorting to false balances, huh? In all of our interactions, I've literally explained to you what that is about 3 or 4 times, even giving explicit examples and you still don't get it. Perhaps if I were a SLI, my words would be able to penetrate somehow. Amazing. Within this particular context, on the substantial merits (i.e., empirical data) of each side's argument, one side deserves to be taken more seriously, heeded and paid more attention to. PERIODT. One can NOT assume that both sides' arguments have equal value and therefore, deserve equal time/opportunity to be aired and confronted. That is a FALSE assumption and conclusion. The answer does not necessarily lie somewhere in between both "extremes"; in this case, one perspective is significantly more noteworthy, dangerous and impactful (see the data points I've provided in a previous post concerning "white supremacy"). The notion that "Left Wing extremism" deserves similar/the same airtime as Right Wing Extremism is absurd, because the data does not support that they remotely compare in any substantial manner. The only thing you're doing is propping up an empirically unsupported assertion and giving Right Wing hypocrites cover to crouch under and a false leg to stand on. Ugh, nevermind. I can't engage Ti PoLR today. Dance away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    lol Still resorting to false balances, huh? In all of our interactions, I've literally explained to you what that is about 3 or 4 times, even giving explicit examples and you still don't get it. Perhaps if I were a SLI, my words would be able to penetrate somehow. Amazing. Within this particular context, on the substantial merits (i.e., empirical data) of each side's argument, one side deserves to be taken more seriously, heeded and paid more attention to. PERIODT. One can NOT assume that both sides' arguments have equal value and therefore, deserve equal time/opportunity to be aired and confronted. That is a FALSE assumption and conclusion. The answer does not necessarily lie somewhere in between both "extremes"; in this case, one perspective is significantly more noteworthy, dangerous and impactful (see the data points I've provided in a previous post concerning "white supremacy"). The notion that "Left Wing extremism" deserves similar/the same airtime as Right Wing Extremism is absurd, because the data does not support that they remotely compare in any substantial manner. The only thing you're doing is propping up an empirically unsupported assertion and giving Right Wing hypocrites cover to crouch under and a false leg to stand on. Ugh, nevermind. I can't engage Ti PoLR today. Dance away.
    You're not wrong and I don't disagree with you on this point specifically. I just wish anger was rightfully directed upwards at the wealthy elite pitting us against eachother as unwitting pawns by using race, religion and class as artificial dividers. While, they laugh all the way to the bank with their neoliberal/neoconservative policies and we fight amongst eachother. For example, leftist groups like occupy wall street seem to have the right idea. They know that the real enemy is an economic one and not an idenitarian one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I just wish anger was rightfully directed upwards at the wealthy elite pitting us against eachother as unwitting pawns by using race, religion and class as artificial dividers. While, they laugh all the way to the bank with their neoliberal/neoconservative policies and we fight amongst eachother.
    Wouldn't that mean taking a "balanced" view and listening to the corporatist elite's side of things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Wouldn't that mean taking a "balanced" view and listening to the corporatist elite's side of things?
    No, most extreme leftists and extreme rightists that are idenitarians are unwitting pawns just as much as neoliberals and neoconservatives. You can be a centrist and have views that are completely opposite of corporatist elites or completely aligned to them. It is where you lie on each issue specifically that matters, not where you are aligned overall, whether that ends up as left, center or right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    No, most extreme leftists and extreme rightists are unwitting pawns just as much as neoliberals and neoconservatives. You can be a centrist and have views that are completely opposite of corporatist elites or completely aligned to them. It is where you lie on each issue specifically that matters, not where you are aligned overall, whether that ends up as left, center or right.
    Well Trump also directs anger at the corporate elites (that's why he attacks companies like Amazon) and "rigged" economy. It's not necessarily that identity politics is bad, but people are leaving out economic identity politics, or class politics. So if we only care about the economy, then we might say Trump is decent, even though he's likely leading the country towards fascism with his white identity politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well Trump also directs anger at the corporate elites (that's why he attacks companies like Amazon) and "rigged" economy. It's not necessarily that identity politics is bad, but people are leaving out economic identity politics, or class politics. So if we only care about the economy, then we might say Trump is decent, even though he's likely leading the country towards fascism with his white identity politics.
    Yes, but you can say the same for someone like AOC who is anti-corporate, but engages in idenitarian politics by wanting mass immigration/open borders, etc. If you ignore his white identity politics and focus on immigration, Trump is not behaving that differently than Obama who had border camps and deported many illegals as well.
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