Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 160 of 383

Thread: The Rise of Far Left Extremism

  1. #121
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,634
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waddup View Post
    None of you are my duals. My duals dont even follow politics.
    In Soviet America, politics follows you.

  2. #122
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacrificing weak mortals
    Posts
    2,529
    Mentioned
    131 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Extremism is just a natural product of people being frustrated and feeling like they have nothing to lose, which is where a lot of people are at today thanks to anti-progressive policies and sucking the free market's dick. The purchasing power of average Americans hasn't risen at all for the past 40 years. People are trapped in debt. Most jobs available on the market pay shit and offer workers no dignity. The government with all its adherers to capitalism and the free market has been doing absolutely nothing to fix any problems. The establishment's #1 enemy has and always will be socialism which is where people forcibly seize assets from the wealthy elite, and they will do whatever they can to muddle the waters and cause the working poor to fight amongst themselves. All this shit ANTIFA and the Trump crowd fight over about like racism and immigration is just a big ruse that distracts people away from the more systematic problems.

  3. #123
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,634
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Extremism is just a natural product of people being frustrated and feeling like they have nothing to lose, which is where a lot of people are at today thanks to anti-progressive policies and sucking the free market's dick. The purchasing power of average Americans hasn't risen at all for the past 40 years. People are trapped in debt. Most jobs available on the market pay shit and offer workers no dignity. The government with all its adherers to capitalism and the free market has been doing absolutely nothing to fix any problems. The establishment's #1 enemy has and always will be socialism which is where people forcibly seize assets from the wealthy elite, and they will do whatever they can to muddle the waters and cause the working poor to fight amongst themselves. All this shit ANTIFA and the Trump crowd fight over about like racism and immigration is just a big ruse that distracts people away from the more systematic problems.
    OK, so tell me what the world will look like after the poor seize it and eat the rich.

  4. #124
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacrificing weak mortals
    Posts
    2,529
    Mentioned
    131 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    OK, so tell me what the world will look like after the poor seize it and eat the rich.
    Well first of all, socialism doesn't have to accomplished by a complete eating of the rich at the start. First step is for a socialist party to take power of the state, preferably through democratic means if possible. It is expected that will be some insurrection from right-wing nutjobs at the start so they must be dealt with first until things become stable. Then after that you begin to incrementally nationalize portions of the economy, starting with the biggest and most important ones like communication services and banks and then work your way down to smaller private companies. With the acquired resources taken from private enterprise the state will begin providing more social services like public transportation, scientific research, advanced education and advanced healthcare, which all help people as well as boost the economy in the long term. Wages will set at reason levels by the state instead of the free market so you won't see some people make billions while others get scraps. When socialism is achieved national projects will actually be able to be planned effectively and people lives will be able to be gradually and steadily bettered, as opposed to our haphazard and stagnate capitalist system we live in now.

  5. #125
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I don't really consider myself super knowledgeable about politics or an expert on it, but I can still make conclusions based on my observations and what I do know. I am well aware that the far right are not innocent and a part of the problem like the far left.
    Yes, you have the right to share your “observations” and “conclusions,” but because you admit that you aren’t “super knowledgeable,” then your thoughts simply shouldn’t hold much weight in the dialogue. PERIOD.

    This is not CNN, who traffics in the same logical fallacies that you do > instead of treating competing views fairly—i.e., in proportion to their actual merits and significance—they are treated equally, i.e., giving them equal time to present their views even when those views may be known beforehand to be based on false or inaccurate information.

    If two people are arguing the merits of childhood vaccinations and one person has a slew of peer reviewed/consensus mediated medical and scientific qualifications and a career in the field spanning 30 years and the other is nothing more than a deeply concerned first time parent voicing what they’ve seen in the case of their own child, then.... I mean, must I even finish this?

    It would be absurd to pair these two as equally valid in their perspectives on such a broad, nuanced, complex topic and yet CNN traffics in this sort of shit DAILY. They give undo weight to an unsupported view that effectively diminishes the well supported view, which has the net outcome of imparting the false notion/impression that both views are equally flawed or that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. NOPE. Sometimes the extreme position is actually the correct one, and sometimes the entire spectrum of belief is flawed and incorrect, and the greater truth has yet to be considered or discovered. And this is where thinking critically (as opposed to shallowly and simplistically) comes into play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    The reason why I bring up the far left is because they are often ignored and downplayed by the media and many leftists. I know the far right extremists are worse in damage and involved in identity politics too, but why should that excuse the far left extremism? Just seems like a weird double standard. I brought up the far left extremism specifically because I wanted to bring it up as an issue.


    I am not expecting you or anyone else on the left to say that the far left are equivalent to neo-nazis (a point I retracted several times in this thread), but rather that the far left are a part of the problem. My views tend to vary politically for each issue, which is why I may appear dishonest when it is the exact opposite. If we can't admit that far left extremists, far right extremists, neoliberal corporatists and neoconservative corporatists are all a part of the problem then we will never make any progress in solving the real issue because we are too busy fighting each other.
    Raver’s “logic” in action >

    Hitler and the Nazis: All the jews should be exterminated.
    Jews: But we don’t want to be exterminated.
    Raver: Let’s take into account both sides of these extremes and reasonably meet somewhere in the middle.

    Da fuck? How would it be “logical” and “reasonable” for half of the jews to be exterminated? Another thing, it’s not as if the Jews were actively pursuing the same or any form of aggressive agenda against the Germans and the Germans were just “standing their ground” and “fighting” back against an equal and opposite threat. Nah, Hitler and the Nazis were the ones with the actual power (particularly in terms of social/political/militaristic might) and they were railing against a disenfranchised group without the wherewithal to adequately resist them.

    John Rawls takes this principle into account in his theorising of the value of tolerating intolerance. For Rawls, there must be a “self-preservation” clause — i.e. if the intolerant are intent on destroying a society, that society has the right to suspend tolerance in order to preserve itself. As such, Rawls believes that the default state of a just (and therefore tolerant) society ought to be that it tolerates the intolerant, until it has any reason not to do so. I tend to side with this frame of thought, in that it doesn’t stifle free speech, but it also doesn’t allow for the most intolerant extremes to destroy everything and everyone due to their having been tolerated.

    What you need to learn to wrap your head around is the notion that some forms of extremism are completely wrong and others are not wrong at all, even if they are extreme. I’m not arguing that extreme leftism is correct and right and blameless but what you won’t do is create a false balance that supports the misguided belief that the truth must always lie somewhere in-between the two opposing sides. That’s FALSE. Sometimes, one side is definitely wrong or significantly more wrong, to the degree that the other side may not receive as much focus and attention, which, DUH, makes sense. It would be retarded to give the same attention, admonishment and punishment to both a child who pinches their classmate in response to being pinched and one who stabs their classmate in the neck with a pair of scissors because the teacher asked them to share. And let’s be super fucking clear here, it is the right wing extremists that are running around with scissors.

    You want to talk all of this “blah blah” about both sides of the extremes being “a part of the problem” and that we must all work together to form a solution and that’s all fine and well. But guess what? As far as the right wing extremists are concerned, one faction is explicitly hateful and violently so (to the degree that they comprise the overwhelming amount of deaths caused by extremism) and another faction at the very least wants a significant portion of the population to be/remain socially, financially and politically disenfranchised for the sake of an all white ethnostate. And we’re supposed to work with that? Lol Stop with this “both sides” bullshit because it doesn’t reflect what is actually going on and who or what is the actual problem. And if you don’t know what's actually going on, LEARN.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 07-12-2019 at 11:19 AM.

  6. #126
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizany View Post
    And you may be thinking "Nuh-uh, girl, you're projecting. Neo-Nazis like you are the same way you dumb hoe [laughing/crying emoji x4]". Well, if you look at my posts in the Political Pictures or Political Videos thread you can see that you're wrong. And this struggle is for the good and me and my family and my tribe. I don't have some nonsensical ideal that takes priority over that like the corporate foot soldiers do.
    lol You mean the family that won't even let you go outside to burn in the sun?

    On a personal note, @Raver, your support of prepubescent, identity fucked, emo nutters like the above who—incidentally, its mother must've gotten better at ridding its Day of the Week panties of the dagger like, encrusted skid marks partly responsible for its angsty, "edgy" temperament seeing as how it's become more vocal as of late—to refer to themselves as "Neo-Nazis," doesn't speak well of you. Lots of Uncle Tom/Tio Tomas vibes going on with you that strike me as particularly self-loathing and pathetic.

    This is your truth >

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I got my Ancestry DNA results about 2 months ago. For the record, I'm half Italian and half Mexican:

    Europe - 60%

    Main Region

    Italy/Greece - 48%

    Trace Regions - 12%

    Europe West - 5%
    Iberian Peninsula - 4%
    Europe East - 2%
    Scandinavia - 1%

    America - 22%

    Main Region

    Native American - 22%

    Africa - 9%

    Main Region

    Senegal - 5%

    Trace Regions

    Africa North - 3%
    Ivory Coast/Ghana - 1%

    West Asia - 8%

    Trace Regions

    Middle East - 7%
    Caucasus - <1%

    Asia - <1%

    Trace Region

    Central Asia - <1%
    That person ain't "white"; furthermore, I've seen you and at best, you are off-white/white approximate, but still easily mistaken for "the help" or some migrant day worker. I don't get people who support belief systems and ideologies that actively and aggressively work against the interests of them and their own people. A lot of your distant cousins are at the US Southern Border, as we speak, being treated like utter shit by racist, bigoted, prejudiced right wing nutjobs no different in thought than run away abortions like @Vizany. If I'm being completely honest, a significant part of the "hostility" you've received from me, stems from the idea that a clear, multi-ethnic person of color would prostrate himself in front of those that would see him disenfranchised or dead.

  7. #127
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    lies : )

    hypocritical delusional shit confirmed

    (and congratulations for the fine art of insulting strangers online!)
    Da fuck are you talking about? The only "lies" you know about are the ones your body tell before the inevitable seroconversion.

  8. #128
    perpetuus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    That person ain't "white"; furthermore, I've seen you and at best, you are off-white/white approximate, but still easily mistaken for "the help" or some migrant day worker. I don't get people who support belief systems and ideologies that actively and aggressively work against the interests of them and their own people. A lot of your distant cousins are at the US Southern Border, as we speak, being treated like utter shit by racist, bigoted, prejudiced right wing nutjobs no different in thought than run away abortions like @Vizany. If I'm being completely honest, a significant part of the "hostility" you've received from me, stems from the idea that a clear, multi-ethnic person of color would prostrate himself in front of those that would see him disenfranchised or dead.
    I think there's some resentment that some established (i.e. having lived in the USA for multiple generations) Hispanic Americans might feel toward more recent immigrants. A sense that they haven't "earned their dues". Not that I agree with this line of thinking, but I've noticed it on occasion with people I've known whose families have already been in the US for at least a few decades.

  9. #129

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I can say the same thing about you, that you're being used like a fodder and a propagandist tool for the cause of the far left. Instead of incorrectly thinking that I'm supporting the far right directly or indirectly, maybe we should reach common ground in our disdain for neoliberal/neoconservative politicians and corporations. Both the far-right and the far-left have emerged as symptoms of neoliberal/neoconservative politicians and corporations via their social policies that serve to further business interests to line their pockets. What they want is each political side to have their own personal boogeyman, the left with the far right and the right with the far left so attention is drawn away from them and directed towards pawns instead so they can continue to profit and continue with their plans without too much criticism directed towards them.
    Your views are no different than the far-rights', because you believe that people of different races and ethnicities inherently don't get along, so you believe that immigration should be restricted if not outright abolished. This view basically justifies attacks and harassments of minorities, because it's their fault for merely existing and being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

  10. #130
    mfckrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    292
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Well first of all, socialism doesn't have to accomplished by a complete eating of the rich at the start. First step is for a socialist party to take power of the state, preferably through democratic means if possible. It is expected that will be some insurrection from right-wing nutjobs at the start so they must be dealt with first until things become stable. Then after that you begin to incrementally nationalize portions of the economy, starting with the biggest and most important ones like communication services and banks and then work your way down to smaller private companies. With the acquired resources taken from private enterprise the state will begin providing more social services like public transportation, scientific research, advanced education and advanced healthcare, which all help people as well as boost the economy in the long term. Wages will set at reason levels by the state instead of the free market so you won't see some people make billions while others get scraps. When socialism is achieved national projects will actually be able to be planned effectively and people lives will be able to be gradually and steadily bettered, as opposed to our haphazard and stagnate capitalist system we live in now.
    lol. Didn't they try this in Venezuela already?

  11. #131
    mfckrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    292
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    On a personal note, @Raver, your support of prepubescent, identity fucked, emo nutters like the above who—incidentally, its mother must've gotten better at ridding its Day of the Week panties of the dagger like, encrusted skid marks partly responsible for its angsty, "edgy" temperament seeing as how it's become more vocal as of late—to refer to themselves as "Neo-Nazis," doesn't speak well of you. Lots of Uncle Tom/Tio Tomas vibes going on with you that strike me as particularly self-loathing and pathetic.

    This is your truth >

    That person ain't "white"; furthermore, I've seen you and at best, you are off-white/white approximate, but still easily mistaken for "the help" or some migrant day worker. I don't get people who support belief systems and ideologies that actively and aggressively work against the interests of them and their own people. A lot of your distant cousins are at the US Southern Border, as we speak, being treated like utter shit by racist, bigoted, prejudiced right wing nutjobs no different in thought than run away abortions like @Vizany. If I'm being completely honest, a significant part of the "hostility" you've received from me, stems from the idea that a clear, multi-ethnic person of color would prostrate himself in front of those that would see him disenfranchised or dead.
    Starting to sound like a real ethnobolshevist here. Big think

  12. #132
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    lol You mean the family that won't even let you go outside to burn in the sun?

    On a personal note, @Raver, your support of prepubescent, identity fucked, emo nutters like the above who—incidentally, its mother must've gotten better at ridding its Day of the Week panties of the dagger like, encrusted skid marks partly responsible for its angsty, "edgy" temperament seeing as how it's become more vocal as of late—to refer to themselves as "Neo-Nazis," doesn't speak well of you. Lots of Uncle Tom/Tio Tomas vibes going on with you that strike me as particularly self-loathing and pathetic.

    This is your truth >

    That person ain't "white"; furthermore, I've seen you and at best, you are off-white/white approximate, but still easily mistaken for "the help" or some migrant day worker. I don't get people who support belief systems and ideologies that actively and aggressively work against the interests of them and their own people. A lot of your distant cousins are at the US Southern Border, as we speak, being treated like utter shit by racist, bigoted, prejudiced right wing nutjobs no different in thought than run away abortions like @Vizany. If I'm being completely honest, a significant part of the "hostility" you've received from me, stems from the idea that a clear, multi-ethnic person of color would prostrate himself in front of those that would see him disenfranchised or dead.
    How did you see my picture? I never posted it on the forum, lol. Unless you count that time when I went to a meet up 6 years ago and my picture was posted by someone else, but it was eventually removed.

    Anyways, if you went through the trouble of looking for my ancestry that I posted on this site then you might as well post the up to date information:



    So basically I am 68% European, 23% Native American, 7% African, 2% West Asian

    I don't think I've ever claimed to be "white" in this forum lol, I've said many times that I'm mixed race and I've never hidden it. I know very well if I went to the stormfront forums and claimed I was white on these results, that they would laugh and mock me regardless of my physical appearance, but I never sought to be a part of people with those kind of views. I've read the stormfront forums out of curiosity enough to know that I would be treated like any other colored person for being a mongrel so you're pretty much preaching to the choir here.

    I have no clue why you keep mentioning @Vizany to me, maybe his posts triggered you. He's a teenager and his views will change as he grows older so you constantly attacking him directly is not cool at all. What is your ethnicity though @Alonzo? You've mentioned before you are 3/4 ethnically Swedish, 1/4 of something else? But then you mentioned you were half viking/half mandingo? Just be completely open and say it. I never actually saw your picture, but I heard from others that you looked African when you posted your pic and quickly took it down? Just say what you are already, are you a quadroon? a mulatto? something else? There is no shame in hiding it, embrace your mixed race heritage like I have instead of beating around the bush.

    Anyways, lets talk about my views on immigration in US/Canada/Australia/NZ because it affects me directly as a Canadian. My immigration views on these countries are pretty much center right conservative. I am against mass immigration/open borders into these countries because I believe if we let in too many people, it will put a drain on our infrastructure and our quality of life. I do believe that letting in too many immigrants can worsen our 1st world standard of living, but letting in the right number of immigrants won't. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it for these countries, it's about sheer number of people entering the country that is both legal and illegal.

    The same goes for the US as well, it's about receiving the right amount of legal immigrants so population in Canada and US does not get too high and overwhelm the infrastructure in our cities and deteriorate our standard of living like what is happening in California right now due to its homeless epidemic. So with the US, it's mostly about preventing illegal immigration and maintaining reasonable legal immigration levels. With Canada, it's similar, but more of an emphasis on maintaining reduced legal immigration numbers and less on illegal immigration since we have much less illegal immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Your views are no different than the far-rights', because you believe that people of different races and ethnicities inherently don't get along, so you believe that immigration should be restricted if not outright abolished. This view basically justifies attacks and harassments of minorities, because it's their fault for merely existing and being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
    My center right conservative immigration views in the country I live in that I just mentioned to Alonzo are far right? Maybe to the far left that are open borders/mass immigration, but my views on reducing immigration in my country are quite common:

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5397306/c...igration-poll/

    Sixty-three per cent of respondents to a recent Leger poll said the government should prioritize limiting immigration levels because the country might be reaching a limit in its ability to integrate them.

    Just 37 per cent said the priority should be on growing immigration to meet the demands of Canada’s expanding economy.
    I guess 63% of my country is far right for wanting to reduce immigration and keep it at controlled levels. The only people that promote mass immigration/open borders are far leftists to virtue signal about how self-righteous they are and neoliberal and neoconservative corporatists that want a steady flow of cheap labor to profit from.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  13. #133
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I have no clue why you keep mentioning @Vizany to me, maybe his posts triggered you. He's a teenager and his views will change as he grows older so you constantly attacking him directly is not cool at all. What is your ethnicity though @Alonzo? You've mentioned before you are 3/4 ethnically Swedish, 1/4 of something else? But then you mentioned you were half viking/half mandingo? Just be completely open and say it. I never actually saw your picture, but I heard from others that you looked African when you posted your pic and quickly took it down? Just say what you are already, are you a quadroon? a mulatto? something else? There is no shame in hiding it, embrace your mixed race heritage like I have instead of beating around the bush.
    1.) How the fuck do you know that "it" will change? I don't give a fuck about "it" being a teenager--there are plenty of non-trash teenagers and so that excuse won't cut it; I'm only tepidly interested in what "it" does now, and for right now, it's a cephalic dumpster baby and will be regarded as such.

    2.) Whatever cotton-brained fuckwits told you that I've posted my pic on here before are even more dimwitted than you because I'd never do that. I talk way too much shit to be that stupid. lol But I did post a pic of my father to be VI'd, who was half ethnic Swede/half Brazilian (Cafuzo). My mother is an ethnic Scandinavian and Swedish national. Why the fuck would I feel the need to beat around the bush? In multiple places, I've said that I'm mixed race, proudly so. And for those capable of reading, I said that I was a Viking-Mandingo hybrid, which does not necessarily denote a half and half mixture. The only thing you need to know is that I'm big, blonde, blue and bronzed and still feel compelled to fight for people I don't phenotypically resemble, though we are genetically connected. Unlike you, I don't twerk for Neo-Nazis and those who wouldn't let my ass into the country if they had their way.

  14. #134
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Well first of all, socialism doesn't have to accomplished by a complete eating of the rich at the start. First step is for a socialist party to take power of the state, preferably through democratic means if possible. It is expected that will be some insurrection from right-wing nutjobs at the start so they must be dealt with first until things become stable. Then after that you begin to incrementally nationalize portions of the economy, starting with the biggest and most important ones like communication services and banks and then work your way down to smaller private companies. With the acquired resources taken from private enterprise the state will begin providing more social services like public transportation, scientific research, advanced education and advanced healthcare, which all help people as well as boost the economy in the long term. Wages will set at reason levels by the state instead of the free market so you won't see some people make billions while others get scraps. When socialism is achieved national projects will actually be able to be planned effectively and people lives will be able to be gradually and steadily bettered, as opposed to our haphazard and stagnate capitalist system we live in now.
    For the record, while I don't think any kind of socialism will work including your proposed democratic socialism because it's bound to be corrupted by a privileged elite in a worse way than capitalism is and it results in most just being poor and destitute. Regardless, I still respect these kind of far leftist views because they are well meaning and seek to help the lower and middle class. I consider myself a social democrat aka the nordic model in that I think capitalism needs to remain, but introduce socialist aspects to it in the sense of universal health care, free college, advanced welfare. To a lot of right wingers, economically I am far left, but socially I am far right to a lot of left wingers because of my views on immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by soulless ginger mutant View Post
    I think there's some resentment that some established (i.e. having lived in the USA for multiple generations) Hispanic Americans might feel toward more recent immigrants. A sense that they haven't "earned their dues". Not that I agree with this line of thinking, but I've noticed it on occasion with people I've known whose families have already been in the US for at least a few decades.
    I'm a Canadian though so this does not apply to me. We have a lot of Chinese and Indian immigrants who are actually integrating quite well into my country. I'd like to see reduced numbers though like many of my fellow Canadians to encourage integration. 2nd or at the latest 3rd generation immigrant children do integrate well into the country, it's the 1st generation immigrants that fail to integrate into my country ime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    1.) How the fuck do you know that "it" will change? I don't give a fuck about "it" being a teenager--there are plenty of non-trash teenagers and so that excuse won't cut it; I'm only tepidly interested in what "it" does now, and for right now, it's a cephalic dumpster baby and will be regarded as such.

    2.) Whatever cotton-brained fuckwits told you that I've posted my pic on here before are even more dimwitted than you because I'd never do that. I talk way too much shit to be that stupid. lol But I did post a pic of my father to be VI'd, who was half ethnic Swede/half Brazilian (Cafuzo). My mother is an ethnic Scandinavian and Swedish national. Why the fuck would I feel the need to beat around the bush? In multiple places, I've said that I'm mixed race, proudly so. And for those capable of reading, I said that I was a Viking-Mandingo hybrid, which does not necessarily denote a half and half mixture. The only thing you need to know is that I'm big, blonde, blue and bronzed and still feel compelled to fight for people I don't phenotypically resemble, though we are genetically connected. Unlike you, I don't twerk for Neo-Nazis and those who wouldn't let my ass into the country if they had their way.
    1. The way you view the far right as being sub-human is kind of frightening to be honest. Even though the far left disturb me in their behavior, I wouldn't ever relegate them to sub-human status, I'd want them to change their views and shift them towards the center left. The same goes for the far right as well to have them shift over to the center right. Anyways, I believe anyone's views can change at any age, it is not set in stone.

    2. Lol, relax dude, I was just curious. I brought up your ethnicity because you kept bringing up mine so I thought it was fair game. I guess you can't handle the taste of your own medicine, lol. So it looks like you posted your dad's photo then, but whatever since I didn't see it myself. Alright, your 3/4 Swedish and a 1/4 Brazilian (which are mixed to begin with), that's pretty cool man. Anyways, it seems like you are obsessed with ethnicity and race more than me. In terms of immigration into my country I don't care about ethnicity, I care about reducing immigration numbers. I just find it amusing that this stance on immigration means I support neo-nazis and I'm alt-right. Anyways, if we are going by caricatures then I'm half mafia/half cartel so I guess that makes me more threatening then your viking-mandingo mixture.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  15. #135
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    476
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Raver It's hard not to like you. lol So I'll be exiting this thread.

  16. #136
    Formerly Chuck's Sneeds Feed and Seed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    . Anyways, I believe anyone's views can change at any age, it is not set in stone.

    People are pretty malleable, I agree. My views changed on certain topics pretty dramatically compared to just a year ago.

    I AM THE KING OF ALABAMA


  17. #137

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    My center right conservative immigration views in the country I live in that I just mentioned to Alonzo are far right? Maybe to the far left that are open borders/mass immigration, but my views on reducing immigration in my country are quite common:

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5397306/c...igration-poll/

    I guess 63% of my country is far right for wanting to reduce immigration and keep it at controlled levels. The only people that promote mass immigration/open borders are far leftists to virtue signal about how self-righteous they are and neoliberal and neoconservative corporatists that want a steady flow of cheap labor to profit from.
    You advocate ethno-states, like Germany staying ethnically German and Italy staying ethnically Italian and so on. That's pretty far-right.

    Also right-wing/conservatives don't say that different races and ethnicities don't fundamentally get along, but they would say that perhaps immigrants should try to integrate and don't try to cause any trouble. Or they would advocate monoculturism but say multiethnicity is fine.

  18. #138
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    You advocate ethno-states, like Germany staying ethnically German and Italy staying ethnically Italian and so on. That's pretty far-right.

    Also right-wing/conservatives don't say that different races and ethnicities don't fundamentally get along, but they would say that perhaps immigrants should try to integrate and don't try to cause any trouble. Or they would advocate monoculturism but say multiethnicity is fine.
    My beliefs are ethno-states within Europe, Africa and Asia, but monoculturalism/multiethnicity within US, Canada, Australia, NZ. If that makes me far right on immigration with certain countries and center-right on immigration on other countries then I am fine with that distinction. It's important to note that I advocate social democratic (nordic model) economic policies, legalized weed and legalized prostitution that are seen as far leftist policies. If you want to label me as far right overall then that is your prerogative, but it only fits me on a few specific niche issues where as I lie elsewhere on the political spectrum in regards to other issues. Overall, I probably lean towards left-libertarian or centrist depending on one's viewpoint.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  19. #139
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I advocate legalized prostitution
    eh... secretly, so do a lot of Conservative men.

  20. #140

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    My beliefs are ethno-states within Europe, Africa and Asia, but monoculturalism/multiethnicity within US, Canada, Australia, NZ. If that makes me far right on immigration with certain countries and center-right on immigration on other countries then I am fine with that distinction. It's important to note that I advocate social democratic (nordic model) economic policies, legalized weed and legalized prostitution that are seen as far leftist policies. If you want to label me as far right overall then that is your prerogative, but it only fits me on a few specific niche issues where as I lie elsewhere on the political spectrum in regards to other issues. Overall, I probably lean towards left-libertarian or centrist depending on one's viewpoint.
    Well there is one official ethno-state: North Korea. You want countries to become like North Korea?

  21. #141
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well there is one official ethno-state: North Korea. You want countries to become like North Korea?
    Nope, I want all European, Asian and African countries to be like Italy, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Hungary and Australia. Countries that are currently trying to control immigration and keep its ethnicity without officially calling itself an ethno-state.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  22. #142

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Nope, I want all European, Asian and African countries to be like Italy, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Hungary and Australia. Countries that are currently trying to control immigration and keep its ethnicity without officially calling itself an ethno-state.
    Yeah, Germany tried that once, and it failed.

    Also how is it even possible in principle? Surely, even if immigration is completely restricted, foreigners can still live in the country. And during that time, people might get into relationships or get married and have mixed-children. Or should the state forbid international marriages like North Korea does? What would happen to those children? Should they be deported or something?

  23. #143
    Vizany's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    blumpfistan
    TIM
    epic gamer
    Posts
    179
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well there is one official ethno-state: North Korea. You want countries to become like North Korea?
    >ethnic homogeneity magically turns countries into drugged-up Juche socialist hellholes

    ILI-Ni2-H - 5w4 4w5 9w1 sx/sp - Anglo-Amerikaner - Siegepilled NatSoc - Agnostic Apostate - Neutral Evil - Probably the youngest person on the forums

  24. #144
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Yeah, Germany tried that once, and it failed.

    Also how is it even possible in principle? Surely, even if immigration is completely restricted, foreigners can still live in the country. And during that time, people might get into relationships or get married and have mixed-children. Or should the state forbid international marriages like North Korea does? What would happen to those children? Should they be deported or something?
    Having a very small amount of foreigners get into relationships, getting married and having mixed children is not a big deal at all at any country.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  25. #145
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Raver I take it that you're opposed to identity politics when the left-wing is accused of doing it; not to put words in your mouth, but people in your camp will typically express sentiments along the line that identity politics is divisive and racist. Yet the notion that a whole country should preserve the purity of its ethnic identity is inescapably a form of racist identity politics. Please explain why holding these two views at the same time isn't inconsistent and incoherent.

  26. #146
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,634
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well there is one official ethno-state: North Korea. You want countries to become like North Korea?
    I think he just means that he wants other countries to keep the demographics that they have, not that he wants ethnic cleansing. It's true that places like Germany haven't historically been places that take in a lot of immigrants like America has and that it doesn't seem like the cultures and economies of those countries can handle large amounts of new ethnic groups coming in and not assimilating like certain regions of American can. However, aside from Germans just taking all the refugees and putting them in the wrong places, I don't think there needs to be any policies to actively ban new groups from coming in. Refugees actually don't tend to like Germany and countries like that with very narrow and well-defined cultures because they just thought they'd move to Germany, get a cute little German house in the Alps with a German car, and otherwise live exactly the same way they would've in their home country under better conditions, which is not true.

  27. #147

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Having a very small amount of foreigners get into relationships, getting married and having mixed children is not a big deal at all at any country.
    But your view is that different races and ethnicities don't fundamentally get along, so if they get attacked or harassed by the majority, then it's their own fault for merely existing.

    See where I'm going with this?

  28. #148
    Not Sh!t coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,634
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    @Raver I take it that you're opposed to identity politics when the left-wing is accused of doing it; not to put words in your mouth, but people in your camp will typically express sentiments along the line that identity politics is divisive and racist. Yet the notion that a whole country should preserve the purity of its ethnic identity is inescapably a form of racist identity politics. Please explain why holding these two views at the same time isn't inconsistent and incoherent.
    I think he just recognizes that ethnicity isn't race so much as culture combined with ancestry and sees that as a shortcut to stop disastrous policies like bringing tons of refugees who don't even want to be there into European countries haphazardly, or George Soros buying out Hungary. I think having official ethic policies is a horrific idea but ethnicity can be a good guideline (not hard rule) in many cases and Raver isn't a career politician or a bad person so I'm not going to start throwing stones at him. Also, if you just demonize anything vaguely conservative, you are a far-left extremist by definition, though that's not necessarily a problem depending on demographics. There are some people I wouldn't expect to have any conservative views because of their environment and who also aren't bad people like the antifa groups are.

  29. #149
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    @Raver I take it that you're opposed to identity politics when the left-wing is accused of doing it; not to put words in your mouth, but people in your camp will typically express sentiments along the line that identity politics is divisive and racist. Yet the notion that a whole country should preserve the purity of its ethnic identity is inescapably a form of racist identity politics. Please explain why holding these two views at the same time isn't inconsistent and incoherent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    But your view is that different races and ethnicities don't fundamentally get along, so if they get attacked or harassed by the majority, then it's their own fault for merely existing.

    See where I'm going with this?
    To be honest with you guys, I really don't want to debate immigration in this thread, I think we did more than enough of it in the last thread and I've gotten sick of it. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this as we'll likely never reach a consensus.

    However, to answer the question @xerxe asked, I'm not going to deny that identity politics is happening on the right just like it is on the left and I'm going to leave it at that.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  30. #150
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacrificing weak mortals
    Posts
    2,529
    Mentioned
    131 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mfckrz View Post
    lol. Didn't they try this in Venezuela already?
    They are in the process. Only around 30% of their economy as of now is state owned compared to Cuba's 75%. Right wingers there had a fit as usual about handing over their goodies and attempted to sabotage the state. Transiting to socialism is always rough in the beginning but in the end is superior to capitalism.

  31. #151
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    However, to answer the question @xerxe asked, I'm not going to deny that identity politics is happening on the right just like it is on the left and I'm going to leave it at that.
    Sounds like an admission that you support identity politics.

  32. #152
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I think he just recognizes that ethnicity isn't race so much as culture combined with ancestry and sees that as a shortcut to stop disastrous policies like bringing tons of refugees who don't even want to be there into European countries haphazardly, or George Soros buying out Hungary. I think having official ethic policies is a horrific idea but ethnicity can be a good guideline (not hard rule) in many cases and Raver isn't a career politician or a bad person so I'm not going to start throwing stones at him. Also, if you just demonize anything vaguely conservative, you are a far-left extremist by definition, though that's not necessarily a problem depending on demographics. There are some people I wouldn't expect to have any conservative views because of their environment and who also aren't bad people like the antifa groups are.
    In other words, he supports identity politics. RE. the demonization comment: not sure if that was directed at me, but I don't demonize "anything" that's even vaguely Conservative.
    Last edited by xerxe; 07-13-2019 at 02:16 AM.

  33. #153
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    That sounds like an admission that you support identity politics.
    I think populism from the left and right is fine as they are both useful in different ways. I understand that populism from the left and right have underlying identity politics tied into it. I support populism from both the left and the right, but not identity politics specifically even though identity politics is intertwined with populism at times. If populism was less about identity politics and more about unifying against wealthy business interests then it would be a lot more effective IMO.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  34. #154
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I think populism from the left and right is fine as they are both useful in different ways. I understand that populism from the left and right have underlying identity politics tied into it. I support populism from both the left and the right, but not identity politics specifically even though identity politics is intertwined with populism at times.
    You have been supporting the preservation of homogeneity defined around ethnic `identity`. Why isn't that a form of identity politics..?

  35. #155

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,478
    Mentioned
    249 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coeruleum View Post
    I think he just recognizes that ethnicity isn't race so much as culture combined with ancestry and sees that as a shortcut to stop disastrous policies like bringing tons of refugees who don't even want to be there into European countries haphazardly, or George Soros buying out Hungary. I think having official ethic policies is a horrific idea but ethnicity can be a good guideline (not hard rule) in many cases and Raver isn't a career politician or a bad person so I'm not going to start throwing stones at him.
    It's more likely that these people are unaware of the reality of being an ethnic minority, for that they're an ethnic majority. Or ironically they don't notice any trouble for being blessed with living in a multi-ethnic or multicultural society.

    The fact is that ethnic minorities exist in virtually any countries, and to say that there should be only one ethnicity within a country would be to deny their entire existence.

    This whole thing seems more likely a case of "homogeneity envy" where they have fantasies that homogeneous societies are beautifully cohesive and conflict-free and everybody gets along in a beautiful utopia. Of course that isn't actually the case, and if that were so, then everybody would automatically agree with everything and there'd be no need for democracy or laws or the court or anything. The fact is that those artificial laws and institutions exist for the very purpose of resolving conflicts.

    It's a simple fact that plurality is good for the society and progress. But conservative-minded people would rather foolishly sacrifice progress for apparent stability.

    I'm not saying that unlimited immigration is the way to go, because that might destroy the culture. However gradual immigration is obviously the sane policy for any modern countries.

  36. #156
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    You have been supporting the preservation of homogeneity defined around ethnic `identity`. Why isn't that a form of identity politics..?
    Supporting one or a few aspects of identity politics is not the same thing as supporting every single aspect of identity politics. I can support identity politics within the right by saying homogeneity for Europe, Asia and Africa. I can also support identity politics within the left by saying minorities deserve equal rights to everyone else. However, I can reject identity politics on the right if it means minorities should be treated as second class citizens. I can also reject identity politics on the left if it means minorities should be given special treatment superseding that of the majority. This isn't a black and white issue like you are trying to paint it as because it has a lot of nuances and grey in it.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  37. #157
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacrificing weak mortals
    Posts
    2,529
    Mentioned
    131 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Well there is one official ethno-state: North Korea. You want countries to become like North Korea?
    Two: Israel

  38. #158
    xerxe xerxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ministry of Love
    Posts
    6,359
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Supporting one or a few aspects of identity politics is not the same thing as supporting every single aspect of identity politics. I can support identity politics within the right by saying homogenity for Europe, Asia and Africa. I can also support identity politics within the left by saying minorities deserve equal rights to everyone else. However, I can reject identity politics on the right if it means minorities should be treated as second class citizens and I can also reject identity politics on the left if it means minorities should be given special treatment superseding that of the majority. This isn't a black and white issue like you are trying to paint it as because it has a lot of nuances and grey in it.
    You say that you reject identity politics from the left because it gives racial minorities special treatment. Paradoxically, the right-wing identity politics you support gives racial majorities special treatment. What's the deal?

  39. #159
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,938
    Mentioned
    219 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    You say that you reject identity politics from the left because it gives racial minorities special treatment. Paradoxically, the right-wing identity politics you support gives racial majorities special treatment. What's the deal?
    An example of giving racial majorities special treatment is racial segregation like what happened in the US in the past. Controlling immigration on who you let in at your country is not an example of special treatment because they live outside of your country and are not citizens. Once they legally move into the country then they will be given the same treatment as everyone else living in that country.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  40. #160
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacrificing weak mortals
    Posts
    2,529
    Mentioned
    131 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    For the record, while I don't think any kind of socialism will work including your proposed democratic socialism because it's bound to be corrupted by a privileged elite in a worse way than capitalism is and it results in most just being poor and destitute. Regardless, I still respect these kind of far leftist views because they are well meaning and seek to help the lower and middle class. I consider myself a social democrat aka the nordic model in that I think capitalism needs to remain, but introduce socialist aspects to it in the sense of universal health care, free college, advanced welfare. To a lot of right wingers, economically I am far left, but socially I am far right to a lot of left wingers because of my views on immigration.
    Social democracy is only feasible in Europe because of the profits companies in those countries are able to extract to from the cheap labour and resources from places like Africa. Providing all those social services while still being under capitalism's inefficient distribution of goods is immensely costly and relies on exploiting places outside the given country's borders. Social democracy is fine for the places able to have it but it is not a feasible option for the whole world, nor does it fix the core issues of capitalism.

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •