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Thread: LII and the social

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    Default LII and the social

    Hello. I was reminded of a couple of LIIs I have known who used to be quite well-received, so to speak, socially. They seemed to have some charm and used to be rather skilled at things like networking. All in all, they seemed to be rather well liked. Is this common? Or is it an exception? Is it related to Fe-seeking? Thanks.
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    I know four of them well and I’d say these four are very well liked and successful in their careers and hobbies and people enjoy their company. They’re good listeners and care about the underdog. Polite and thoughtful.

    Three have chosen not to have children. Two have seen their marriages fail within the last couple of years. One is divorced and won’t remarry. The last has a very bad marriage.

    So for my small sample I’d say these are four engaging and friendly people in the less intimate sense, but have struggled in partnerships. One of these I dated, and I adored him and he dumped me, long ago. Very independent. One is a career traveler, and travel is part of what broke up her marriage—also quite independent.
    Last edited by golden; 06-20-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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    I also know a number of LII's, including one of my sisters. They all are actually quite good at being social and are well-liked, but as @golden said, they all seem to struggle with relationships.

    sister - Chem degree, job at university, married 3 times, first to EIE, then to ILI, now to LSE. Not happy.
    Greg W, - job as software engineer, married to introverted rational, marriage seems kind of rocky.
    Nathan - job at university, had a dual GF but lost her through neglect, presently alone and doesn't care.
    Sveta - software engineer, married to non-dual, second marriage for both, met online. Seems happy.
    Christine - administrator, married to LIE. Second marriage for both. Very unhappy.
    Kurt - chemist, software engineer, married to LII, seems happy.
    Kurt's wife - software engineer, married to Kurt LII, seems happy.
    Larry - electrical engineer, married for less than a year and divorced. Does not care to date.

    All of these people are extremely nice and are well-liked. None of them have children. Not one.

    Wait, I forgot Jane. Software engineer, married to non-dual, has one kid whom she says is autistic, seems happy. Or at least she isn't complaining.
    And Diane. Chemist. Had one child who was born with problems and who soon thereafter died. Husband then died, she will not remarry.
    And (------), female, cook, never married, fond of drugs and alcohol, in and out of rehab. No kids.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-20-2019 at 02:29 AM.

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    First keep in mind that LIIs do value Fe, even if it’s their weakest function. Generally speaking, mature types will develop a degree of competency in their weaker valued functions as part of the maturation process (or the individuation process, if you like Jung). I have a somewhat unorthodox typing of C.S. Lewis as LSE which I’ll take the opportunity to defend here: his fiction, generally, was either blatant allegory or directly and explicitly a defense or apology for his theology, operating by very rigid Te-logic with little room for subjectivity. And that he was a Si ego is I think rather clear both from his personal life and writings, which all display an almost palpable distaste for passion, adrenaline, and unordered “fun” or pleasure in anything but the most abstract sense. But there is a spark of both Fi and Ne in his writing. Take the Narnia series, which he’s best known for — despite how he almost bludgons you with an allgorical hammer, he did create a fairly whimsical, relatively original world, and almost every touch of emotion is serious, direct, and intense. And he was concerned, outside that series, with emotional and spiritual sincerity; he was greatly concerned with individuality, which he thought was characteristic of Good, while evil could only imitate; be derivative.

    LIIs, when they’re children, are generally taciturn. I’m not sure how representative my example would be, but I was quite stony, and really tended to blow people off because I genuinely didn’t understand how to deal with them or relate to them. I still have similar tendencies now. But at the same time there’s a great desire to be liked and to have a friend or two — eventually this desire will cause the LII to learn to imitate others’ interactions and to conceal their discomfort in order to get the Fe they so desire.

    Often an LII will try to direct Fe-requiring situations to areas they feel comfortable in — I have an LII professor, for instance, who invites students as a group to his house for dinner; I know another who relatively frequently invites friends (and sometimes just new acquaintances) over to his house whenever he’s in a good mood. But you can tell that Fe is not their natural domain; they tend to retreat into the background at such events, generally talking to other people one-on-one or disappearing for some time. The latter’s ESE wife is a more engaged host: paying more attention to guests, making sure they’re stocked with food, etc.

    ILEs are the true people-pleasers though. They have a need to feel liked and respected and will do almost anything to achieve it. If they’re sharply criticized on personal grounds — especially of being unfair or cruel — or treated generally disdainfully, they will privately feel hurt for months, even if they brush it off in public. This develops a negative cycle, I think: ILEs due to this insecurity tend to be quite consciously kind and forgiving, but this attitude invites unscrupulous people to take advantage of them. ILEs tend to learn quickly to recognize this (Ne pattern recognition), and don’t let it happen after getting burned a couple times in their youths. But often when they turn a miscreant away, the latter will insult the ILE; complain that they trusted him, and so on. This only further bothers the ILE and contributes to his people-pleasing nature. Generally after such an incident they’ll bring it up to others in an attempt to gain affirmation that they were doing the right thing, though they won’t phrase it as such, and will try to feign uncaringness: “some asshole just asked me to give him $40 and I told him to fuck off”; something to that effect. But if you know the person you can tell that they’re really bothered by their response, even if they believe intellectually that they acted correctly.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-20-2019 at 04:13 AM.
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    I've been able to get along with most people although I've chosen to be close to relatively few. I tend to be naive about people's motivations but very perceptive of deception; the latter has helped me career-wise but not in maintaining relationships. I usually detach from issues so as to better understand, which also implies mentally distancing myself from the people associated with the issues until I have clarity. This rationalization style can appear rather harmless to acquaintances but with familiarity, those close recognize that I'm not easily convinced and although I readily accept what people say, it's treated more like evidence. I can't see when I'm up close so as I involuntarily back away, most translate this as a sign of not caring when in fact, I really do. Unfortunately, the outward appearance of the behaviour drives away many and the actual process unmasks the unforgivable secrets of others. My detachment's been described to me as feeling the cold edge of the wedge before the piercing questions start......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 06-20-2019 at 12:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've been able to get along with most people although I've chosen to be close to relatively few. I tend to be naive about people's motivations but very perceptive of deception; the latter has helped me career-wise but not in maintaining relationships. I usually detach from issues so as to better understand, which also implies mentally distancing myself from the people associated with the issues until I have clarity. This rationalization style can appear rather harmless to acquaintances but with familiarity, those close recognize that I'm not easily convinced and although I readily accept what people say, it's treated more like evidence. I can't see when I'm up close so as I involuntarily back away, most translate this as a sign of not caring when in fact, I really do. Unfortunately, the outward appearance of the behaviour drives away many and the actual process unmasks the unforgivable secrets of others. My detachment's been described to me as feeling the cold edge of the wedge before the piercing questions start......

    a.k.a. I/O
    You say you’re perceptive of deception, and while that can be a very good thing, I have seen a couple of LIIs take this to the point of seeing deception where there was none and destroying relations as a result.
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    I used to be a favorite on the Green Day Community back in 2017. I have to say that forums have always been a place where my Fe liked to stay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    You say you’re perceptive of deception, and while that can be a very good thing, I have seen a couple of LIIs take this to the point of seeing deception where there was none and destroying relations as a result.
    Conspiracy theories tend to be more of an Ip-thing and to a lesser extent Ej; however, wrong information will poison all types and LIIs are not immune. Unfortunately, LIIs often write people off, never giving them a second chance; I know I didn't give my unfaithful EIE partner one. Usually mature LIIs will try to confirm information but when they can't they'll normally choose courses with the least amount of risk and often wonder for the rest of their lives whether or not they had made the right decisions.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Conspiracy theories tend to be more of an Ip-thing and to a lesser extent Ej; however, wrong information will poison all types and LIIs are not immune. Unfortunately, LIIs often write people off, never giving them a second chance; I know I didn't give my unfaithful EIE partner one. Usually mature LIIs will try to confirm information but when they can't they'll normally choose courses with the least amount of risk and often wonder for the rest of their lives whether or not they had made the right decisions.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Well, I don’t mean conspiracy theories, and I don’t mean you specifically. Sorry if that was unclear. I have remarked in the past that some—not all—LIIs come across to me as very suspicious interpersonally. The two I mentioned have thought I and other people were doing things we weren’t. So I found it interesting that you mentioned “deception detection” as part of your way of interacting.

    I was thinking maybe that could be on a continuum with these instances where people went too far and were plainly getting paranoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    .........LIIs come across to me as very suspicious interpersonally........
    We can often be oblivious and somewhat naive but suspicious is not an adjective that I'd apply although we do seem to focus a lot on consequence in our planning. I guess our reticence to start unless things seem perfect could be perceived as us being suspicious but this usually originates from insecurities about being personally successful. Most LIIs that I've known tended to lean toward the optimistic side - that is, once they actually started moving. Now, acquired baggage can bend one out of shape....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Despite him being a clueless fuckwit most of the time, I know one who seems to be well liked everywhere he goes. It's inexplicable. Women seem oddly charmed by him too. Sometimes the right balance of awkwardness and charm goes a long way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    You say you’re perceptive of deception, and while that can be a very good thing, I have seen a couple of LIIs take this to the point of seeing deception where there was none and destroying relations as a result.
    Two words: Agatha Christie

    which I suspect of being LII. Her end conclusions (as made by head detectives) about relations between people are extremely subjective tunnel vision kind of thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Two words: Agatha Christie

    which I suspect of being LII. Her end conclusions (as made by head detectives) about relations between people are extremely subjective tunnel vision kind of thinking.
    Is this something that Alpha SF can balance out somehow?

    I’ve found it to be pretty at odds with Ni.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Perpetual Now View Post
    Despite him being a clueless fuckwit most of the time, I know one who seems to be well liked everywhere he goes. It's inexplicable. Women seem oddly charmed by him too. Sometimes the right balance of awkwardness and charm goes a long way.
    Socionics can explain the otherwise inexplicable. Let me say that only certain types of women are charmed by your friend.

    I work with this LII analyst. He's overweight, bald on top, has a scraggly red beard and dresses like he grudgingly put clothes on when he got out of bed but they spent the last few days rolled in a ball on the floor. I like him, but an IEE described him as "revolting".

    The LII works with this female SLI intern who is a clone to my ex-wife. She is tall, thin, intelligent, careful, a great dresser, graceful in her movements, and except for her Iranian black hair instead of my ex-wife's Prussian red hair, they could be twins. They could be clones. However, the Iranian SLI truly is my socionics Supervisor, and unlike my ex-wife, she can't hide the fact that she has a barely concealed contempt for my talents, despite that fact that I like her and I wish she liked me, even a little bit. Like, above negative.

    Her not liking me bothers me in a subtle way. Not that I want to get close to her or anything, but her reaction to me is more like the normally-described behavior of Supervisors toward their Supervisees, rather than the reaction my ex had to me. It would be nice if she liked me more, and then I could somehow resolve the fact that my ex left the marriage (or maybe revisiting that place wouldn't resolve anything, IDK), but that seems to be an unrealistic wish.

    So it was with some amazement that I saw this beautiful, classy, emotionally remote SLI really take to the disheveled LII. He grabbed a giant bouncing ball and sat on it next to her desk to discuss a project with her, and she absolutely came alive. She smiled at him (she has never smiled at me), she spoke to him in an animated, interested way, she touched his arm, and in general looked like she was dying to be asked out on a date. He, in turn, seemed pleasantly, stupidly oblivious to her attentions.

    After my initial shock, I looked up their ITR. He is her Benefactor, and if Benefit feels to her the way it feels to me, then every time she sees the LII, she is feeling like it is Christmas morning and there are presents to unwrap. In addition to the fact that they are erotically compatible.

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    I only know one LII irl and he's my best friends brother so kind of a brother to me and I can't imagine dating him but theoretically he'd be up my alley. Kinda quiet, kinda geeky in a good/interesting way and can tell me things I don't know, good natured and goes along with things. Balance of awkwardness and charm, yeah yeah. Socially he's kinda too open with it when he thinks people are stupid but it makes you feel more in his loop if you're not included, like he looks at me sometimes with an expression like "can u believe these fools" and it pleases me lol.

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    I can be very polite and formal in general, though beyond this, any attempt at being more expressive than this will be exhausting and frustrating if I have to do it. It's a lot easier for me to self-isolate and find other ways to be happy alone than to waste time making friends with people I have nothing in common with. It's much more relaxing knowing that I'm under no obligation to talk to people.

    I believe the "charm" that LIIs have has more to do with role in connecting with people on a personal level than attempting to win people with .

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Is this something that Alpha SF can balance out somehow?

    I’ve found it to be pretty at odds with Ni.
    I have noted that ESE's have tried to calm me down (quite unnecessarily ) by telling some stuff about others. I'm quite calm on those terms by not reading too much personal significance to it.

    I think SEI's want to hear potential objective evaluations about people and they tell me how they usually feel in that position. It is a very good information exchange in that way. I don't know what it does to LII. Are LII's even that interested at reading people that way? At least SEI's do not try to ground my feelings. It is more about making reasses my position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Hello. I was reminded of a couple of LIIs I have known who used to be quite well-received, so to speak, socially. They seemed to have some charm and used to be rather skilled at things like networking. All in all, they seemed to be rather well liked. Is this common? Or is it an exception? Is it related to Fe-seeking? Thanks.
    I would say yes, LIIs can be well-liked, and maybe even more often than not come across as inoffensive and even convivial, while coming up short socially in other ways (such as inconsistent engagement and failing to maintain relationships). "Charm" and networking skill may be less common.

    Then again, there is always the possibility that the people you met were actually SEI or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I would say yes, LIIs can be well-liked, and maybe even more often than not come across as inoffensive and even convivial, while coming up short socially in other ways (such as inconsistent engagement and failing to maintain relationships). "Charm" and networking skill may be less common.

    Then again, there is always the possibility that the people you met were actually SEI or something.
    I appreciate your reply, but I am sure of these few people's types. I don't usually type a lot of people, while knowing a lot of people, but those that I have typed I am absolutely sure of their type otherwise i wouldn't bring it up on here. I said these people had charm I didn't say they go out of their way to charm others or some such? Your last sentence seems kind of underhanded to me, and I wonder why you'd be so underhanded, honestly? I am just discussing something very simple about the theory??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I appreciate your reply, but I am sure of these few people's types. I don't usually type a lot of people, while knowing a lot of people, but those that I have typed I am absolutely sure of their type otherwise i wouldn't bring it up on here. I said these people had charm I didn't say they go out of their way to charm others or some such? Your last sentence seems kind of underhanded to me, and I wonder why you'd be so underhanded, honestly? I am just discussing something very simple about the theory??
    It's not "underhanded", I simply can't take someone else's typings for granted when answering questions about the theory. It's nothing personal.

    I'm sure you're sure of these typings, but if you type someone as LII and I would type them as SEI, then there is no reason why I should "explain" their behavior as being LII. Of course you may have typed them correctly too which is why I offered the (hypothetical) take on this case. And describing them as having "charm" could be debatable too, even if we would agree on their being LII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ..........I work with this LII analyst. He's overweight, bald on top, has a scraggly red beard and dresses like he grudgingly put clothes on when he got out of bed but they spent the last few days rolled in a ball on the floor. I like him, but an IEE described him as "revolting".........
    I haven't met professional LIIs who could be described as scraggy although I did meet one with an actual body odour condition that could water ones eyes by mid-afternoon. They usually seem to appear well-kept but nondescript; if they were fashionable, it was by accident but none were obese or revolting. The look that most LIIs seem to prefer is invisibility and what you describe wouldn't achieve that; now, many ILIs seem to like a counter-culture appearance.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @Rebelondeck
    I think this is correct - both types will only take on something conceptually if there is a rational basis, but LII ''fights'' the system by simply not adhering to it, whereas ILI seems to actively ridicule or attack the system through ''counter-culture'' in the purest sense: emperors new clothes. The descriptors fit the idea of LII being the creator or positive logician (the replacement of something old and illogical with a new, better system) whereas ILI is the destroyer or negative logician (the simple deconstruction and critique of what currently stands). This manifests in LII being unaware of the friction between their physical appearance and the normative perception, whereas ILI will, with full awareness, make themselves stand out to break the accepted standard. Se PoLR reacts with constructive means, Fe PoLR reacts in a much more emotional way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I haven't met professional LIIs who could be described as scraggy although I did meet one with an actual body odour condition that could water ones eyes by mid-afternoon. They usually seem to appear well-kept but nondescript; if they were fashionable, it was by accident but none were obese or revolting. The look that most LIIs seem to prefer is invisibility and what you describe wouldn't achieve that; now, many ILIs seem to like a counter-culture appearance.........

    a.k.a. I/O
    I didn't say I thought he was obese or revolting, just that he was overweight and an IEE thought he was revolting. I'll PM to you a picture of him standing next to an LIE, and you can decide for yourself.
    I've worked with this guy for six years and both he and I are sure that he's an LII. We've talked about it at length and he's taken tests which indicated he is LII. He even gave his GF a test and she got ESE. Then she left him.

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    @Rebelondeck, my PM to you refused to be sent (my LII sister never answers her phone, either), so here is the PM I was going to send to you. The pics will only be up for about an hour.

    -Adam

    As I promised, I am sending you a picture of the guy I described in the LII thread. Here it is. -too late.


    He's standing next to an LIE-2Te. See if you can tell which is which.

    Here is a picture of a group of friends of mine from an Astronomy club. -also too late. -I've known most of these people for over twenty years.

    They are, left to right:
    ???, SLE-Ti looking heroic, LII chemist, LII female being rational, ??? Maybe LII as introverted programmer virgin, ILE in lavender shirt, ILI, possible LII looking gnomish, IEI.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-22-2019 at 03:22 PM.

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    @para Ever since I could remember, I've referred to myself as a closet-rebel, a closet-environmentalist, or a closet-something because I keep tight control of my rebellious nature; I will not express my opinions if I know they won't be well received unless I've no choice or I'm on a website like this one where I can remain invisible. Fortunately, I've been in jobs where I've had almost full control but I still wouldn't press friends/staff beyond where I thought were their limits. I've had more than a few ILI colleagues/staff who've raged way too loudly in open offices - and two that've threatened bodily harm to others..........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @para Ever since I could remember, I've referred to myself as a closet-rebel, a closet-environmentalist, or a closet-something because I keep tight control of my rebellious nature; I will not express my opinions if I know they won't be well received unless I've no choice or I'm on a website like this one where I can remain invisible. Fortunately, I've been in jobs where I've had almost full control but I still wouldn't press friends/staff beyond where I thought were their limits. I've had more than a few ILI colleagues/staff who've raged way too loudly in open offices - and two that've threatened bodily harm to others..........

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yes, ILI's can act nuts sometimes. A good friend of mine once got frustrated and punched a hole in a drywall wall with his fist while screaming in rage and despair. He bloodied up his knuckles pretty well.

    When LII's get frustrated, they seem to turn their frustration on themselves, rather than demonstrate it overtly.

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    One thing to watch out for is whether someone has a personality or cognitive disorder. I worked with a guy who was extremely unprofessional and violated everyone's personal space pretty much by default. He lacked all self-awareness when it came to how others saw him, but he also interjected himself into everyone else's business because of high extroversion.

    My first thought was that he was a complete POS. Then I slowly realized that he probably had some kind of autistic disorder and had a hard time processing other people's perspectives.

    I did eventually figure out his socionics type: he was my identical. It did seem like he cared about behaving professionally, but because of his autistic disorder never figured out other people's unspoken reactions towards what he was doing.
    Last edited by xerxe; 06-22-2019 at 10:34 PM.

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    @Adam Strange Unfortunately, my computer configuration won't allow me to access these images. However, I don't put any stock in VI but my logic does tell me that there must be LIIs who don't put effort into being somewhat invisible; I just haven't met any.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    @Rebelondeck
    I think this is correct - both types will only take on something conceptually if there is a rational basis, but LII ''fights'' the system by simply not adhering to it...
    My name isn't Rebelondeck, but I agree with you, nevertheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When LII's get frustrated, they seem to turn their frustration on themselves, rather than demonstrate it overtly.
    hmm, I usually just remove myself from something that causes frustration, whether it's a situation or a person. and yeah, I often just fight a system by not participating in it. I often debate with myself whether it's a good thing or not.

    for social situations, I often use meetup.com. something that allows me to interact with new and unconventional/interesting people. my other hobbies are training in a park and sport in general (I mostly do it by myself or with a friend), listening to music, watching films, playing video games or reading books/comics, and working on socionics projects. I can spend weeks only by myself. to anwers OP's question, I doubt that they are really LII, or maybe they are just an exception.
    Last edited by soundofconfusion; 06-22-2019 at 05:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ..........When LII's get frustrated, they seem to turn their frustration on themselves, rather than demonstrate it overtly.
    Not me. I've been known to beat myself up, for years, over a stupid mistake that I made because I ignored the obvious signs. I've been a lot of things but frustrated is not one of them; I'm far too detached and objective. I've never been frustrated with what others have done to me; I simply move on - but it would never happen again. Although I'm not vengeful, I can be absolutely cold and ruthless......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I think i display the opposite temperament in dire stress - i (in very rare situations) lash out in anger, but calm myself and ''gain'' my reason back. It usually peaks with me ranting about this wretched world, and labelling the inhabitants as bumbling idiots. I usually hurt the feelings of someone in the process, sadly. Nonetheless, i never appear ruthless, i think.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being
    There was Aps, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

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    @para Stress is not being able to cope, which brings out the negative aspects of the LII's inner ESE; it sometimes happens to me when I know I've lost control of something that I'm doing, or someone continually interrupts that on which I'm concentrating. For me, it doesn't feel like anger but rather an attempt to change the circumstance. My positive ESE comes out in social gatherings where I wouldn't cope as an LII. Maybe you're the rare LII that doesn't have a detached, dispassionate nature; I know that it took me a long time to admit that I was the type of person who could send people into battle without a second thought even though I would never want to hurt anyone.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Impermanence para's Avatar
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    @Rebelondeck
    My comment was more to give perspective on the supposed reaction to stress of LII than an identification with it - i think i'm either ILI or SLI. I am generally dispassionate and have ''perspective'' until i'm under severe stress, where i go from my normal state of detachment and internal tranquility to venomous bitterness. I relate this more to Fe vulnerable, perhaps.
    Is the negative emulation of the super-id functions a general reaction to stress in Socionics? I've read that the super-ego usually takes over in stressful situations.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being
    There was Aps, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    @Rebelondeck
    My comment was more to give perspective on the supposed reaction to stress of LII than an identification with it - i think i'm either ILI or SLI.
    Is the negative emulation of the super-id functions a general reaction to stress in Socionics? I've read that the super-ego usually takes over in stressful situations.
    @para, if your choice is between ILI and SLI, I'd say your avatar picture is way more SLI than ILI. ILI's tend towards darker extremes, while SLI's seem to look for harmonious balance in a middle ground.

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    Impermanence para's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @para, if your choice is between ILI and SLI, I'd say your avatar picture is way more SLI than ILI. ILI's tend towards darker extremes, while SLI's seem to look for harmonious balance in a middle ground.
    Thank you. I seem to have read that you have had a lot of experience with SLI types - does my avatar remind you of anything in particular, or was it a general assessment?

    My interests in general do encapsule a lot more of ''the darker extremes'', but i cannot refuse the idea that i seek ''harmonious'' proportions - they just primarily exist in my mind, even if based on something physical.

    I came off particularly weird to my parents, as i spoke of suffering and the meaning of that condition from a very early age. This lead me to an interest in war as a possible lens into the human condition. So, the ''dark extremes'' are definitely not absent. But, an interesting dichotomy nonetheless.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being
    There was Aps, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Thank you. I seem to have read that you have had a lot of experience with SLI types - does my avatar remind you of anything in particular, or was it a general assessment?

    My interests in general do encapsule a lot more of ''the darker extremes'', but i cannot refuse the idea that i seek ''harmonious'' proportions - they just primarily exist in my mind, even if based on something physical.

    I came off particularly weird to my parents, as i spoke of suffering and the meaning of that condition from a very early age. This lead me to an interest in war as a possible lens into the human condition. So, the ''dark extremes'' are definitely not absent. But, an interesting dichotomy nonetheless.
    I'm one of those rare (I think?) LIE's who has an SLI father, who was way better than my LSE mother, and so I tend to seek Si (my PoLR) as a form of trying to gain approval from my supervisor (which I see from Socionics is impossible, but whatever). Hell, I even married an SLI and we had an SLI son. FML. Soooo many people marry a parent.

    In any case, I am drawn to the calm remoteness of an Si environment.* @para, your avatar picture is almost pure Si, in the sense that it shows a human figure, not fully formed but one which could be completed in various ways (with Ne, of course), and is reproduced in emotionally neutral colors. Very SLI, if you ask me.

    It could easily be a work of art that my SLI ex-wife purchased and hung on the wall. I'd be pretty happy with it, if she did.


    *A calm Si environment was a safe haven from my violent and narcissistic LSE mother. We all want to resolve those childhood conflicts we had as children, but in my own experience, further exposure to our parents isn't the best way to deal with that. All we're going to get is more of the same, only now we can see it from the perspective of an adult. We can't fix it or make it better, we can only understand it.
    If you had problems with your parents, then parental visits should be handled as if your parents are radioactive. The more exposure to them, and the longer the visits, the sicker you are going to get.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-23-2019 at 02:18 PM.

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    Impermanence para's Avatar
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    @Adam Strange
    I see. You've grown attached to something ''type'' related because it was an escape from something not type-related? The lead-Si environment was favourable by virtue of being separated from your mother, if i understand you correctly? I can't say if i've experienced something similar, but i imagine it is quite common to sway the ''psychological model'' by non-type factors like that.

    I think i'm also considering ILI based on how the super-ego is constructed as a model of ''social pressure'' in Socionics. The uncertain, lacking, even despised part of your psyche. I've consistently experienced difficulties in life based on what i would categorise as Si and Fe - lack of understanding of hygiene, external presentation, appliance of household skills, physical practicality etc. and lack of social skills, not submitting to the emotional influence of others, lack of proper social conduct, only doing what i find important, not understanding tradition for the sake of it, and much more. At least i cannot imagine SLI being unhygienic and disliking working with practical things.

    But - some sources say that the super-ego should not be used to map out the type. The Ego should be most consistently accurate, as it is the strongest.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being
    There was Aps, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

  39. #39
    Delilah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    ......

    for social situations, I often use meetup.com. something that allows me to interact with new and unconventional/interesting people. my other hobbies are training in a park and sport in general (I mostly do it by myself or with a friend), listening to music, watching films, playing video games or reading books/comics, and working on socionics projects. I can spend weeks only by myself. to anwers OP's question, I doubt that they are really LII, or maybe they are just an exception.
    Hmm, one of them had a reputation for being particularly intelligent throughout school, was always walking and hanging out alone though, pursuing their own projects, yet was always talked about by others in really nice ways and people would frequently approach her though she wouldn't mingle much with others. Anyway, i didn't say these were particularly social people, just that they were quite well liked by others....
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

  40. #40

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    there are no social problems in people of some types. there can be type specific problems of dealing with some people due to different interests, IR, etc common reasons. some people have nontypes behavior issues

    my LII pal from uni had normal communications with co-students, his IT related familiars, had musician pals and other contacts. he spend much time with his computer too. was intelligent introvert, but generally normal
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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