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Thread: What is the purpose of Ti role?

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    Default What is the purpose of Ti role?

    I have sometimes wondered what the point of Ti role in EII is? How can it be / be made to be a useful thing? I have noticed that ILEs, for instance, are exceedingly good at making use of various laws and legal complexities, like even to the extent of employing lawyers, police and negotiators in civil matters and matters of property/ownership, something which I personally see as either too severe or too serious to bring down on someone just like that. Yet, the ILE i know who made use of these systems went on to successfully protect their own interest in this case.

    Something like FI humanity holds me back in cases of protecting my own self interest, yet could Ti tie in with Fi somehow without having to end up needing SE and *without* violating Fi?

    Does Ti role in ESI work any differently than in EII?

    Last edited by Delilah; 06-19-2019 at 06:48 AM.
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    Role functions exist as a cover up for your lead function, in situations where you dont know if your lead function will be accepted. Its strengths is 2 dimensional, meaning that you are aware of what the generally accepted norms are in this field, and nothing else. Ti role might coupled with the creative function might SEEM to be the persons real personality at first glance (e.g. EII can act like "mini-ILEs") in situations where theyre unsure of being accepted, but sooner or later they will drop the act and youll see the Fi coming up.

    Duals will unconsciously help you in your role functions department as this is their ignoring function. Theyll largely not use the function for themselves (LSEs Ti is ignoring) but might use it in situations to "fill up" or redirect you in your role function, generally preferring their lead over your role. They wont apply pressure on this function as they dont value it at all, might laugh as they see you try to use it and then go fix it with their lead function for you.

    As for differences between ESI and EII, according to gulenko theres a + and - version of each information element. ESIs have -Fi and +Se, so theyll also have -Ti. (act like mini SLE)
    EII have +Fi and -Ne, so their Ti is +Ti. Otherwise, there would be no difference as both their Ti is 2D

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    They will try to follow the system. In some cases can even function as in lead position (assuming the organization is right one and people are co-operative) although they might build up too much stress.

    I'd draw the parallel with LSI here.
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    Ti-role doesn't serve a purpose: when it's used the consequences are usually not very good, not for the person temselves, nor for the recipients. This applies to any IE expressed in the role function. E.g. take a look at the role-Ne of someone like Alex Jones. And you better not run into an IEE or ILE resorting to Se, because its use will be disproportional and destructive.
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    The Ti-classification comprises observations associated with a specific form of rationalization, which by itself (without input) couldn't produce output. As the output component of an information processing system, it cannot be solely held responsible for making use of anything specific or holding anyone back. The ego does not have 8 factory sections to which distinct roles and production lines can be assigned. There's an overlap between Fi and Ti in that certain algorithms are both F and T in nature so under certain very restricted conditions, some types become indistinguishable from one another. Behaviour is normally different between ESI and EII because input is usually different; rationalization could be identical but one can only rationalize that which one sees.

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    to process Ti related information
    the place in model A adds a style how this is done. this does not change the essence

    > FI humanity holds me back in cases of protecting my own self interest

    any function relates to your own interests equally. also a part of your own interests are interests of other people. you do not live independently from them and they influence on you by their actions, by your emotions, etc.
    as people more prefer to take into account valued regions - they notice own and others' interests there better

    > could Ti tie in with Fi somehow without having to end up needing SE and *without* violating Fi

    Ti is about logical links between the facts. The better you understand Ti related - the better you may live in this world and to feel it as more emotionally comfortable (Fi).

    There is no violation and all functions are needed. T and F are opposing functions but also complementing ones. Your psyche can't keep the attention in the same moment on T and F - that's why the functions are opposing. But you need to process the both functions good to be adequat.
    You calculate by T not for calculations, but to feel emotionally better by F in the life. And also to feel emotionally good you need to think logically to understand the world correctly, to act better in it. The similar is with values - you need for living Ti and Te. You just are more adopted (due to distortion of your psyche by Jung's type) to use only one of them, - it's more pleasant for you to use one of T, but you need them both equally.

    in Socionics as complementing to Fi is called Te. but it's a simplification to explain IR effects
    all 8 functions are not to violate each other but to complement, as all 8 are needed equally to live

    > does Ti role in ESI work any differently than in EII

    not in classical theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    They will try to follow the system. In some cases can even function as in lead position (assuming the organization is right one and people are co-operative) although they might build up too much stress.

    I'd draw the parallel with LSI here.
    Hi, that sounds like it should make sense. Could you maybe elaborate on how that plays out? Also, i' m curious why you think a comparison with LSI would be beneficial? I was comparing with ILE going by the assumption that they share a few dichotomies and thinking style as well shared Ne in ego. The LSIs seem quite different to me, they are ST club so quite far removed from EIIs. Perhaps you had good reason to make your suggestion? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Hi, that sounds like it should make sense. Could you maybe elaborate on how that plays out? Also, i' m curious why you think a comparison with LSI would be beneficial? I was comparing with ILE going by the assumption that they share a few dichotomies and thinking style as well shared Ne in ego. The LSIs seem quite different to me, they are ST club so quite far removed from EIIs. Perhaps you had good reason to make your suggestion? Thanks.
    For instance I think lot of LSI's gravitate towards bureaucratic administrative positions something like being head of the laboratory that conducts environmental measurements etc.

    Likewise when EII has gathered trust in their inner circle they might take similar position (being a principal teacher for kids with special needs).
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Ti-role doesn't serve a purpose: when it's used the consequences are usually not very good, not for the person temselves, nor for the recipients. This applies to any IE expressed in the role function. E.g. take a look at the role-Ne of someone like Alex Jones. And you better not run into an IEE or ILE resorting to Se, because its use will be disproportional and destructive.
    Hmm, well if you don't mind me saying for instance i notice inconsistencies and contradictions very easily and pick up on those quickly, yet i hardly ever point those out to others since I don't think it a priority. So, all in all, it does serve a purpose in that it clarifies my thinking / position/ or shows the weakness in the position/ thinking of another, these are mental notes just for me internally. So i guess it offers me ....something, but it seems to be strictly for my own personal consideration, so to speak. Now, how could this be put to some use, in a way? Does this make sense?

    So like, in your case, i'm sure you 'get something " - for lack of a better way of putting it - from Se, but it might just be a personal awareness. I dunno, but perhaps you could share more? Thanks.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    To create pain.
    469 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
    To create pain.
    Perhaps this applies to all manifestations of the role function in general.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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