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Thread: IEI men going for IEI women

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    Default IEI men going for IEI women

    Has anyone else noticed this: an IEI guy is attracted to an IEI girl only to be completely shot down? Presumably, this is because he doesn't satisfy the masculine criteria she wants from an SLE, but I don't want to get too psychoanalytical. I've seen it happen a lot that I'm starting to wonder if there's a pattern if they have some systematic attraction to their identicals.
    Last edited by xerxe; 06-09-2019 at 04:57 AM. Reason: changed "if there's a pattern" to something more specific

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    Immature people are attracted to types who are similar to themselves. If you need validation, you can get it this way.

    If you need help doing things that are hard, then duals are better.

    FWIW, I like to talk with an LIE female whom I know. I think I'd also like to have sex with her, but that's just because she and I have similar solutions to all the problems we talk about, and it might be interesting to watch how I'd be as a female. Lol. I'm pretty sure we would not find each other interesting after we've taught each other everything we know.

    We can exchange information perfectly, but from an operations standpoint, we can't really cover each other's weaknesses.

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    Based on the people I know, most IEI men end up happily with fellow IEI women (if they do end up with them).

    And it's true that Beta ST women tend to prefer fellow Beta ST men over Beta NF guys and end up happily with those (if they do).
    It's a number's game but also like you said, they don't find Beta NF men "masculine" enough.

    There are societal or other (i.e biological?) expectations which make many women choose personality types they deem more "masculine" over those they are technically better matches with in Socionics. Many or most heterosexual women prefer being more feminine than their partner or at least just as feminine as them. Most ST women feel too masculine with an NF guy, so they tend to prefer fellow STs or an NT instead.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 06-09-2019 at 07:58 AM.
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    I know two very attractive IEIs who married; in their spare time, he's a power lifter and she's obsessive about cross-fit. The primary glue for their relationship seems to be that one supports the image of the other. However, she gets annoyed at his inability to stay on a budget even though he's highly educated. I found this amusing because she (a banker) would have gone bankrupt ten years ago if it weren't for her father bailing her out. She also complains that he's so messy; yet, I heard that when she visits her father's home, one cannot see her bedroom floor because of strewn clothes. They decided to have trendy dogs - instead of children.....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I found this amusing because she (a banker) would have gone bankrupt ten years ago if it weren't for her father bailing her out.
    LOL, pretty much all bankers would be bankrupt without being bailed out.


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    I personally disagree with the idea of duality, I find it a bit too idealistic and out of touch with reality, in which not only the core personality is an important factor in initiating relationships, but also time and place, values, previous experiences, opportunities, background, interests etc. I was in a 5 year relationship with an IEI girl. I was not shot down by her however. In fact she had been crushing on me for a whole year before we even started talking.

    I also would not say that I as an IEI man am that feminine. I mean sure, I'm probably more open about my feelings than many other men, and I tend to not be very drawn to competitive sports or whatever, I'm also not very assertive, but that is more out of choice than it is out of fear. I don't have a fragile sense of my own masculinity, thus I am not afraid to show sides of me that in other people's eyes would compromise it. I'm also baby faced and unable to grow a beard which I suppose makes me look less masculine hah.

    Anyways, me and this IEI girl ended up feeling like we had a lot in common. We had never felt such a connection to anyone in our lives before. Everything I said, was things she had thought, and vice versa. Our relationship was great in the beginning, and I was happy to play the role of the 'masculine' provider and tower of safety, and she was receptive to it as well.

    I think what caused us problems was the fact that we were too similar. In regards to practical and Se matters, this was a huge problem. We broke up and she is now in a relationship with an in my eyes overly self-sacrifical and accommodating IEE. Based on the fact that she was attracted to me, and now is attracted to this guy, it does in fact seem like she is attracted to more 'feminine' looking and skinny, I suppose artistic guys. Creativity and sharing that creativity in a relationship is a huge deal for her, as it is for me.

    Not type-related imo.
    Last edited by atlascog; 06-09-2019 at 08:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Based on the people I know, most IEI men end up happily with fellow IEI women (if they do end up with them).

    And it's true that Beta ST women tend to prefer fellow Beta ST men over Beta NF guys and end up happily with those (if they do).
    It's a number's game but also like you said, they don't find Beta NF men "masculine" enough.

    There are societal or other (i.e biological?) expectations which make many women choose personality types they deem more "masculine" over those they are technically better matches with in Socionics. Many or most heterosexual women prefer being more feminine than their partner or at least just as feminine as them. Most ST women feel too masculine with an NF guy, so they tend to prefer fellow STs or an NT instead.
    Ime, Beta NF women tend to be super feminine so it's not very hard to be more masculine than them lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I know two very attractive IEIs who married; in their spare time, he's a power lifter and she's obsessive about cross-fit. The primary glue for their relationship seems to be that one supports the image of the other. However, she gets annoyed at his inability to stay on a budget even though he's highly educated. I found this amusing because she (a banker) would have gone bankrupt ten years ago if it weren't for her father bailing her out. She also complains that he's so messy; yet, I heard that when she visits her father's home, one cannot see her bedroom floor because of strewn clothes. They decided to have trendy dogs - instead of children.....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Sounds more like an Se ego couple. She might be Gamma SF and he might be Beta ST (or Gamma SF as well). Either way, they don't sound like two IEIs at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Immature people are attracted to types who are similar to themselves. If you need validation, you can get it this way.

    If you need help doing things that are hard, then duals are better.

    FWIW, I like to talk with an LIE female whom I know. I think I'd also like to have sex with her, but that's just because she and I have similar solutions to all the problems we talk about, and it might be interesting to watch how I'd be as a female. Lol. I'm pretty sure we would not find each other interesting after we've taught each other everything we know.

    We can exchange information perfectly, but from an operations standpoint, we can't really cover each other's weaknesses.
    I disagree that being attracted to someone similar is "immature", I could be misunderstanding your point but genuine romance is genuine romance.

    Immature is to do with everything regarding an individual, not necessarily idealising someone similar to them.

    I hope that helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by GammavsBeta View Post
    I disagree that being attracted to someone similar is "immature", I could be misunderstanding your point but genuine romance is genuine romance.

    Immature is to do with everything regarding an individual, not necessarily idealising someone similar to them.

    I hope that helps
    I agree that genuine romance is genuine romance, and it can happen between individuals at all levels of personal development. Heck, it can even happen between the genius Nikola Tesla and a pigeon. And I'm certainly not going to claim that Nikola's love for a pigeon wasn't as deep and profound and eternal as Romeo's love for Juliet, or Penelope's love for Odysseus.

    I probably should not have used the word "immature". Instead, let me say that, in my own experience and in observing others, people who are young and relatively inexperienced tend to go for partners who
    1. embody their family's values or desires, or
    2. embody their own characteristics.

    For example, an ESI with an SEE father and an IEI mother might go for an SLE, who simultaneously embodies the strong Se that both she and her father share, and the Beta values that her mother has.

    Or an LIE who grew up in a family without Feelers might be attracted to an LSI, who has the dominant logic that he himself has, and the low-dimensional Feelings that he is used to.

    It is only after these relationships repeatedly crash into the rocks that an individual might decide to direct his or her capacity for genuine romance towards a partner who is a bit more versatile and durable.

    But that might not help.

    If you had told me twenty years ago that an ESI would be my best match, in general, all other things being equal, I'd have had the same reaction that my LII sister had when I told her that an ESI is my best match. She said, "If you bring a woman like that home, the family will disown you." She, of course, is struggling in a marriage to an LSE, the same type as our mother.

    You can't ripen a field before its time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Sounds more like an Se ego couple. She might be Gamma SF and he might be Beta ST (or Gamma SF as well). Either way, they don't sound like two IEIs at all.
    Definitely, IEI. Don't let the banker profession throw you off because she went into the field thinking that this would be a get-rich-quick scheme but ended up in what she calls a hateful job; IEIs tend to be overly optimistic and she was counselled not to do it. I think that he's into health care and coaching (2 masters degrees), people jobs which seem more suited to his type. Their athletic aspect is all about personal images and acceptance, which are typical IEI concerns.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I relentlessly pursued my iei bf and to be honest at least when I'm feeling down on myself I wonder if just about any woman willing to do the same could have gotten through because a strategy of inaction + "what's my surest bet" seems right up his alley lol (he tends to advise me in that direction anyway). He's 39 and hasn't asked a single woman on a date but has been asked. I kind of imagine other iei men to be similar but don't know any. So theoretically the idea of them pursuing someone is weird but that's probably just in my own head & experiences. I can imagine him being attracted to an iei because he seems impressed when I make decisions similarly and he likes witty charm (shocking) and they tend to be skilled at it but I think there'd be a lot of, uh, pondering, on the part of both. If I imagine being an outside friend I picture them talking to me about crossroads as much as each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Definitely, IEI. Don't let the banker profession throw you off because she went into the field thinking that this would be a get-rich-quick scheme but ended up in what she calls a hateful job; IEIs tend to be overly optimistic and she was counselled not to do it. I think that he's into health care and coaching (2 masters degrees), people jobs which seem more suited to his type. Their athletic aspect is all about personal images and acceptance, which are typical IEI concerns.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Health care and fitness professions are best suited for and most typical of S types, but fair enough.
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    My bf taught kids tennis for awhile. He only didn't like it cuz they didn't wanna be there and their parents made them lol. But he freelance instructed random doctors and shit too. He could have gone pro if he didn't dislocate his shoulders. Now he's a nurse.

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    Hmm. Maybe it's not the IEIs being 'unmanly' that is the problem - but the fact they are insecure about it. If you are flamboyant, effeminate or bitchy, you need to 'own it' already- as that is just so much more incredibly attractive than sulking about it, then abusing women because you have low self-esteem and wished you were somebody you are not.

    I fell for a very thereotypical gay dude, who had a very gay boy voice, and did drag and was basically a cute little Disney Princess lol - and he wasn't manly at all, but I loved how confident he was about being gay - it was a huge turn on. If he was like 'waaaah im not an alpha male. /cuts wrists' yuck, I just wouldn't be into him.

    And of course, a lot of women will not respond well to the IEI anyway but I don't understand being attracted or into somebody that's also not into me. Move on, plenty of fish and all that. I have two uncles, one is as masculine as u could imagine- the other isn't feminine per se, but is definitely more 'prissy' and professional- and both have found str8 females they are happy with.

    Kelly Clarkson kind of annoyed me when she said she wanted a manly guy that knew how to change tires and fix a car, cuz umm she had this bitchiness/snootiness in her voice when she said it too (and I don't like Kelly Clarkson to begin with anyway- its why me and my last bf split up), like she wasn't really being kind about it- obviously not every guy is going to be the studly Chad of a woman's playgirl fantasies u know, but - of course, if that is what you like- that is what you like, and nothing you do or say is going to change what turns somebody's vagina or asshole or dick on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I relentlessly pursued my iei bf and to be honest at least when I'm feeling down on myself I wonder if just about any woman willing to do the same could have gotten through ....
    Lol I think some men are like this tbh, even an ESI man i have distantly known to where I actually did the pursuing (imagine that lol) and it was a terrible idea that also ended poorly, it's like a bad omen if i end up pursuing a man at least that's how i've come to view it haha. But I can see it being the case with IEI tho. I wanted to comment as it reminded me of something and i wondered if it's a Se-Ni ethical introvert's game (?)
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    I've tried taking the intiative but it's always ended poorly, except for that one time. That's why I do it less, or at least, it takes a lot more for me to do it now. The way it usually goes is that the ones I like don't like me, and I don't like the ones who like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Lol I think some men are like this tbh, even an ESI man i have distantly known to where I actually did the pursuing (imagine that lol) and it was a terrible idea that also ended poorly, it's like a bad omen if i end up pursuing a man at least that's how i've come to view it haha. But I can see it being the case with IEI tho. I wanted to comment as it reminded me of something and i wondered if it's a Se-Ni ethical introvert's game (?)
    I dunno, if I'm an Se/Ni ethical introvert it's not my game. Im a lot more comfortable being in charge during the whole seduction process cuz I wanna know it's my choice and i wanna have as much control as i can over the pace. Ive been advised that's its smarter for women to sit back and let them come forth but i just can't bring myself to do it.

    Maybe some men are like that though and it's not an iei thing per se. I don't wanna assume all iei men are like that cuz it feels like mentally denying their autonomy cuz of my biases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    ... Ive been advised that's its smarter for women to sit back and let them come forth but i just can't bring myself to do it.

    Maybe some men are like that though and it's not an iei thing per se. I don't wanna assume all iei men are like that cuz it feels like mentally denying their autonomy cuz of my biases.
    haha just ime you can't win whether you take initiative or let the other party do it you just can't win lol, i'm not even bothered by these things anymore nor do i have headspace for them.

    Perhaps it's not Type related then, i'll think about it, thanks!
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    I think a lot of women, even if they're normally passive, will pursue a guy if she finds him attractive for whatever the reason. I mean I think women are just as aggressive as guys when they find someone who's attractive. But after that, they may want to be led by the guy, but I can't say it's the same for all women.

    As for risk-taking and being risk-averse, I think that psychologically, it has to do with thinking that your own actions will be either mostly successful, or mostly failures. I think risk-takers will mostly think that their own actions will be successful (or don't care, or think that they can handle failures), while risk-averse people will imagine mostly failures. I don't think that there's some sort of an invisible force that make these things happen for no reason. There has to be a reason for it.

    As for the OP, "girl shots down guy because she didn't find him attractive" could be applied to virtual any kind of relations. Because the real explanation is... "she didn't find him attractive". It doesn't have to do with anything else.

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    Yeah I'm really shy IRL until you 'get me started first yourself' type of thing. If I have to strain myself to be assertive, its really awkward - I remember growing up, society put me in authoritative roles, to try and build my self confidence- and because they confused me with a moralistic EII maybe and felt that I deserved more power because I could play innocent well, but doing that type of thing is painful for me.

    I also tried to tank in World of warcraft - horrible experience. I'm sooooo much better in the back healing the tank.

    Although me being this way naturally, which I guess is how some bullies insult other men like 'you soy boy you ugh go kill yourself fag' and this sort of thing, I realize it angers some people but eh- conflict is interesting. And often well-meaning ppl get annoyed by it and try to give me speeches to 'improve my confidence' but really- the best way to get along with me is just be confident yourself while I act shy and sweet in the background. =p And protect me from cruel cunts who are bothering me.

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    I loved tanking in World of Warcraft! Paladin and Druid master race, healing was boring to me, and when you were DPS you were just one among many and it took such a long time to find people to play with

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Has anyone else noticed this: an IEI guy is attracted to an IEI girl only to be completely shot down?
    People of identity/mirror are easy to establish initial relations, but those relations are boring and not good supporting.
    I'd say it's not a mature choice.
    You'll not be "completely shot down", though. There are good chances on having relations, mb even long one and surfacely ok. The relations themself is the problem.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I loved tanking in World of Warcraft! Paladin and Druid master race, healing was boring to me, and when you were DPS you were just one among many and it took such a long time to find people to play with
    I like healing, ranged Dps, melee DPS and then tanking in that order. So tank for me and I'll heal. =D I'm trying to get all 5 healing classes decently geared tho, only the Shaman is like that so far, and now I'm working on the Priest and then Druid and then Paladin or Monk. Or Monk then Paladin idk yet lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Health care and fitness professions are best suited for and most typical of S types, but fair enough.
    One cannot assume type based on the careers (or even hobbies) that people choose; they can be typed based on how they go about doing them, the typical mistakes they make, and what aspects they do and don't seem to like. I've met too many people in the wrong placement, a lot due to themselves.

    By the way, he has an ISTp father who thinks he's useless - to quote him: ".......such low achievement out of such high potential; if only I had half the brains....."

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I just wonder how brainwashable those people are. I have zero instincts to save myself from my brain [to a point that I'm supporter of human extinction].
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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