Another pathetic ISTp thread :(

[Park]

I am sick and tired of being alone. I like being alone but now that it has become all I am I 'm starting not to like it any more. I persistently push everyone away from me and I don't have the abillity to control this natural urge of mine. I can envison "compromise" as a sort of helping tool in overcoming/improving my situation but there's nothing I can (want to?) do to change my totally uncompromising attitude and style of behavior. Thinking about it, there 's almost no point of turning back to someone I 've already pushed away and I don't see any point in getting to know someone else because it is proven by experience that it will eventually, if not right away, end the same way. But I have somehow become bothered by the fact that I have no one to speak to, no one to hang out with, no one to do stuff with, no one to create memories with, no one to love. And there's absolutely no one I can trust and I have gotten rid of the need to confide a long time ago. But something tells me this is not the way to go. I need a change in my life. I need someone.

(Well, however pathetic it might sound, it 's true.)

[meatburger]

What you need is with a pinch of

Dont always assume that all friends will drift away from you. If you meet a few cool people from your quadra, your bound to keep them as friends with a little bit of effort. Relationships are not bound to fail that crazy Wintery

People are generally quite nice. You might have to make a stretch and call at least one or two friends you think youve lost. You might be suprised they may be happy to hear from you.

[schrödinger's cat]

Winterpark, that sounds pretty bad. You sound as if you're almost giving up hope.

I had some shitty experiences and didn't trust anyone for a time. It's getting better now. I never asked myself why, but I'll try... Hm - mainly it got better because my other circumstances are improving. They were pretty shitty for some time. I think there's a connection; because:

• If you're mentally/physically/emotionally exhausted, there's less energy left for social stuff.
  Sometimes when people lack energy all their foibles spring out more clearly, so if you're a bit private to begin with, you'll be even more so during a crisis. (Not everyone all the time, but it can happen.)
  It can be hard to differenciate between the cause and the symptom of a crisis. The stupidest instance is when you think you're grown prematurely old and all the world is boring - and then you eat properly again, and HEY, life is good. The answer to the world's ills can be folic acid. Or a relationship really troubles you and drains you of energy, but you just don't want to see it, so what you see is just "I'm so tired all the time, I'm having that stomach trouble again, my job sucks, what's happening?!" My being distrustful and distant was just a consequence of the real problem, not the problem itself.

What also helped was that I gave up my all-or-nothing attitude towards friendship. It's OK to have "friends" whom I can't really talk to, but it's still nice to just have a chat and ask how they are. One step towards making friends is to befriend yourself and be on your own side. I would so like this sentence to be BS, because it sounds totally cheesy - but there is some connection between how aloof/distant/critical you are towards yourself and towards other people.

[Ms. Kensington]

I have an ISTp friend who you remind me of. She doesn't show any Fe, but i still know that she is a deeply sensitive person who gets lonely. I try to provide opportunities for her to take, but I have come to know that she will only go out in certain conditions.

I would say that your friends know you are a trustworthy individual. Next time one reaches out to you.. or responds to one of your calls or emails, force yourself to accept their invitations. I find some tension between your thinking that interaction is pointless and your need to have someone around. interaction would be the point. I think your friends have been your friends for a reason, try to put judgment aside about how the interaction will fold out.

[flower]

Hi winter,
I can really empathise with you, I have often thought of friendships and relationships as too much hassle, requiring too much energy and pointless. Trouble is though, us human beings have brains that are wired up to be involved in social persuits, even us crazy ISTp's, ...and you cannot, and will not achieve a sence of lasting happiness and well-being without fulfilling this core biological need.

If you dont believe me, look on the internet for research on happiness, read a book or two, and it will become clear, social relations are the biggest determinent of the happines, well-being and quality of ones life. This has been found again and again. It's vastly more important than money, what job you do, or any of the other things society would have you believe are important.

I think the key here is your beliefs, if you dont deep down really believe in the importance of social success to you life, you will continue to live the way you do, but if you do, your behaviours will change so that they are consistent with your beliefs and your identity. Beliefs first, behaviours follow.

Think back to times in your life where you were happy, and when you were sad, remember that memory is strongly linked to emotion, the stronger the emotion, the more strongly rooted the memory. Look for the common theme to your happy memories, I bet you a disproportionate amout of them involve other people, friends, family, a partner. Think about you strength of recall, its likely you will recall a time from school when you were messing about alot faster, more vividly, and before the time you bought a new car. Why do people often say school days are the best time of you life etc, look for the common themes, and I promise you, they involve people.

This leads on to probably my biggest hang up in life , friends and relationships within our society's construct, are dispensible, temporary, and breakable at a seconds notice, as these things are not important to the capitalist machine. I had a very good friend of 15 years leave for a new job in a new city recently, and in all probability we will loose touch and that will be the end of that, all that time, all those memories gone, for the "benifit" of a new job. Its expected and almost required in our socienty to play down the importance of social relations, and i dont like it *cries*. It's hard to make friends, even harder to make really good friends, but you must keep trying, as without them, life is empty.

I thank you *waves to the crowd*

[FDG]

This leads on to probably my biggest hang up in life , friends and relationships within our society's construct, are dispensible, temporary, and breakable at a seconds notice,

??? I don't relate

[Topaz]

* tears streaming down face* Thank you Flower. I couldnt have said it better. *gently waves back*

[Slacker]

Most relationships end, but that doesn't mean they're useless. Even relationships that end, relationships that go bad - all those things help make us who we are, and help teach us what kinds of relationships work for us and what kinds don't. Eventually something will click with someone that is more permanent.

Don't give up! *HUGS*

<3

[jessica129]

I'm going to contribute to the 'pathetic' ISTP thread and vent a little.

I can feel myself getting bitter towards just about everyone I come in contact with. I've come to the realization that in all my life, I've never had a serious connection with anyone. The ones that I THOUGHT I had a connection with, ended up leaving me and tearing me down in the end. I'm tired of it. I don't want to put the effort in anymore. I basically assume people are going to turn on me in the end so I don't feel like i should invest anymore. But this is all causing me a very deep depression and I can't seem to snap out of it anymore. I have people I could call aquaintences, however, those relationships are completely shallow. I'm starting to accept the fact I'll never meet anyone. It's depressing, sure, but what can you do. Not much when everyone you've tried to open up to has ended up hurting you in the end. I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to say screw it all and just use people to my benefit. Hell, that's pretty much all I seem worthy of myself.

Where's the rope? lmao.

[meatburger]

Lol Guys, dont make me slap you

Life is an adventure. There are billions of people on this planet. Maybe you need to do something radical. Save for a holiday, start a new hobby, go to see a play, hire a bike, go skydiving. Once you start feeling better you will notice people will start to be more attracted to you. Let me tell you a true real life story.

There is this girl on the train. I see her a few times a week. She is pretty cute, not bad looking but not a total stunner. She has created a shield around herself so strong that no one could get in. In fact no one would want to get in. I have watched her for weeks, she looks depressed. I feel like i can see where she is comming from. She is saying "fuck people". In her heart though i can tell she really wants to be rescued, she wants someone to notice that she is so depressed and doesn't care. The problem is, most people dont really give a shit. They are too caught up in their own problems.

I have said hi to her a few times. You have to make your own luck. I mean even if someone tried to rescue her she probablly wouldn't take there bait because shes too far gone. She doesn't realise that shes defeating herself. She needs to get a bit of life back, maybe say hi to someone and something magic will happen. She will start to feel better and the cycle will take over.

I know this is meanish post. Its actually because im slightly sad myself at the moment. Yesterday, i had 3 people ask if im ok at work. I snapped at my team leader and said "i would be ok if everyone just left me alone". The new ISTp guy that sits next to me at work says he hates it when people ask him if hes ok. He was the only one that understood that i can handle it myself.

EDIT: Actually i can now think of three women who seem to act like this. Maybe some of them are ISTp's? I suppose if its a mechanism to make ENFp's notice them it does work with me

[flower]

lol, imagine if we had an ISTp only forum, I wonder what that would be like Luckily we have some ENFp's to slap us (I would prefer a spank tho :wink: )

This leads on to probably my biggest hang up in life Embarassed , friends and relationships within our society's construct, are dispensible, temporary, and breakable at a seconds notice,

??? I don't relate

Society places a low value on social relations, and we are socially programmed to think in this way, but its not how we are built biologically and evolutionary, its not helpful in trying to build a mentally healthy enjoyable life. You go to primary school, when you leave you get put into grades and will loose contact with a lot of your former friends. After school you will probably loose contact with nearly all of you friends, after university the same. Each time you change job those friends are lost, if you leave membership from a club you will again loose those friends. If you move city for a job you will loose contact with you regular friends, your family, maybe even you intimate partner. Intimate relationships dont exactly last the test of time either, the figures for the divorce rate will back me up there. Over and over, the importance of social relations are downplayed, and the important thing is this - we are encoraged and required to invest most of our time and energy in things that are not nearly as useful to us. It is this requirement that causes people to loose touch, as people go about living their lifestyles that conform to a low value for social relations.

Throughout most of our evolutionary history, we have lived in small tribes and our brains are made for this environment, an environment where everybody knows everybody, for life and our social attributes, position and role are well established. Our biology hasnt yet caught up with our short period of 'civilised' society, and any of us would be lucky if we find just one friend who we maintain for life.

I think dispensible describes societies view on social relations very well.

[meatburger]

Flower, your views are aligned with mine quite well. I do agree.

A long time ago we used to have tribes. Every member of the tribe would look out for and take care of each other. These days, people feel alone, seperated and not special. I think this is the cause of a lot of sadness for people in society.

When i go into town for instance, the train is filled with guys. 100 guys who all look like clones. They all want the same thing. To get a girl or pick up. I myself are looking for something similar, but seeing how many people there are in competition i just cant be stuffed. Plus i believe most of the people out are extraverted so its not really worth it.

Im not quite as fussed about the friends issue. In fact i try hard not to let many new people in to my life. I like time to myself and i already have too many people demanding my attention.

I always have room for ISTp's though.

[Sniper Kitten]

lol, imagine if we had an ISTp only forum, I wonder what that would be like Luckily we have some ENFp's to slap us (I would prefer a spank tho :wink: )

Yeah, I need to get out more. I’ve been rotting indoors lately.
I can relate to all the stuff said by the other ISTps.

Actually I had been rotting indoors for the past 20 years or so. Then I decided to join a club and it got me to know all these great people. I even got myself a date! It really helped me, I was happy. But I haven’t been back for a wile and I’m starting to feel the effects of decomposition again.

What the others said is true. We are social creatures; even loners need someone to confide in. It’s hard and sometimes seemingly pointless to take the time and energy to form a bond with someone because of all the reasons posted above, I know. But it’s still important to give it a try… because if not, maybe were just going to end up being old, lonely and miserable.

*sigh* what a cheerful post… I’m not doing that great myself lately either.

[stefana]

.......

[flower]

A long time ago we used to have tribes. Every member of the tribe would look out for and take care of each other. These days, people feel alone, seperated and not special. I think this is the cause of a lot of sadness for people in society.

ding ding ding, jackpot!!

On a tv psychology show i have been watching, they said about 2/3 of all visits to the doctor are due to deppression, of which a low number and poor quality of social relations is by far the most common cause. A staggering 1/3 of all people will have a period of deppression in their lives!!!!. Remember aswell that depressession has a mojor component from the envoronment, you can be genetically more succeptible to deppression, but even for those people, the environment still has to be unfovorable in such a way as to cause a person to become deppressed. 99% of all suicide cases are also directly attributable to the same reasons.
Society needs to change its attitudes and values if we are not to self destruct, and so we can enjoy of lives and not just exist. Sadly I dont think it will change, not in the near future, and its left to us as individuals to do the best we can out of the situation we find ourselves in.

[Park]

Hey guys! I 'm back and I 'm better! Appreciate your empathy, I truly needed it. My life hasen't chaged much since my last visit , but I think I 've come to the point of realizing this:

I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to say screw it all and just use people to my benefit. Hell, that's pretty much all I seem worthy of myself.

I'm not sure if that 's the right way to go, but hey, I feel much better believing in it. It brings back my self-confidence and makes me feel a li'l better about myself. I am also begining to understand that I first have to change my attitude towards myself in order to improve my relation with other people ( *slowly nodding at schrödinger's cat* ). Now, I know that I can't change in a sec and that it will take some time and patience, but what else can I do. Life is hard, but I 'm still willing to try to make it better. I 'm very happy to still have the hope and will to try cause if that runs out, god be with me (as some religious people would say ).

[mikemex]

Try to find an ENFp. You seem to need it.

Just for you to figure out how well "the thing" works between ISTp and ENFp, I'll tell you what happened to me yesterday.

My car mechanic is ISTp (how original, huh?). I went to pick my car:

me: Is my car ready?
he: Yes, it is... (serious, "business like")
me: Fantastic! (and smiled at him)
he: (smiling back at me) ...but since you didn't come on time, I sold it...
me: (laughing) nah, I saw it while walking...
he: Test it...

Gave me the keys of the car to test it. Drive a bit to check. Everything fine.

Returned to him:

me: Everything is fine... damn, it's very well done (smile again). Now comes the hardest part... how much is it going to be?
he: I'm going to be friendly to you. Just pay for the spares, the service is free.
me: Really??????
he: Really...
me: Wow... you see? That's why I like to come to you... people gets really well serviced in here, damn it...
he: (smiling really big) ... you know, I spend several hours in your car, I finished it at 2 AM...
me: Really????
he: Yeah... I wanted to finish it. I like to be professional in my work.
me: Of course, like it should be...
he: I had to put grease here... and there... and... (and continues telling me what he did to fix it)
me: Wow...
he: See this car? I've been fixing the direction... (shows me the direction pump)
me: What happens to it?
he: Well, the pump doesn't produce enough pressure and sometimes it gets locked...
me: Locked you said? Like getting stuck when turning left?
he: Exactly...

Well, we spoke for nearly an hour. He was tired... and bored and was deadly happy to have someone to speak with. Someone who didn't get bored by speaking about such criptic (to most people) subjects. He told me... well, what he didn't told me. He showed me many kinds of tools and told me the history of each one... damn, he was damn happy to have someone to listen. I wanted to go away because I had things to do, but simply by looking how happy he was, I stayed all that time.

It's the second time I talk to him by the way. The first time was when my father gave me the car as a gift and I told him so (was very happy at the time). I think I left a good impression on the mechanic since. I used to go with my father (INTj). In the years I went with him (10 or more) my dad never talked about anything with him, just the neccesary of course.

So you get a good idea of how the relationship between both is like: the ISTp does "nice things" (providing service) to the ENFp and the ENFp responds giving the ISTp attention and affection. It's a circuit. Both think what they give is insignificant compared to what they get.

[meatburger]

Ahh, an INTj Father. Whats that like Mike?

[mikemex]

Fantastic... for the most part. We have many topics to talk about. We both are inventors and have several patents of inventions we did togheter. We make a great team because we understand each other very well and I have strenghts he doesn't and viceversa (mostly people skills he lacks and I lack his knowledge and cold reasoning).

The only thing I dislike about him is his hurtful sense of humor. It can be really offensive and insensitive at times. He likes to humilliate. Once he did it in front of a girl I liked and even she was like "WTF?"...

And the thing about duality doesn't seem to improve it. He has an ESFj friend who feels really threatened by him. My brother is also ESFj.

Good thing we get along well most of the time, because when he goes beyond the line, I really feel like punching him on the face.