Can you type me?

[Alonzo]

"Of course there are certain people that you don't like, and I'm not going to be bothered by that per se, but when they either annoy me by disrespecting me or disrespecting people who I view as my group within the class, I am not likely to ignore that, depending on how harsh that person was in their speech or their way or their manners. I tend to feel that my group is my responsability and actually what I like the most is just a somewhat peaceful environment, not a dull one, of course not, but an environment where there is no tension, or no unnecessary tension, where I can just and my group can just be who we are, and feel free, and just be. And people who are just in a bad mood or who actually unhappy in their own life, tend to disrupt that peaceful environment...

But it's very annoying when you're just, let's say on a Monday morning, and in you're just in a very good mood because of the weekend, and you're happy, your classmates are happy, your group is happy, you're just sitting in class, and suddenly there's someone who comes up from your class and just starts to attack one of your group members or me, and it's in that case, it isn't even that they have a reason why they do it, they're just in a bad mood, or constantly in a bad mood, and they are just unhappy in general and I don't like when people project their mood onto others who aren't a part of it."

This excerpt from your video is very Fe-valuing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in keeping with my previous post, it seems that you are sensitive to the emotional environment, and like to maintain an elevated feeling and dislike when others disrupt that feeling, due in large part because you can "feel" the "negative" vibes. This whole thing was rather Beta, actually, especially seeing as how you don't mind using Se to put those who fuck up the vibes in their place. lol

You VI just like a brilliant, elegant IEI-Fe (accentuated Se) friend of mine who runs a successful modeling agency; culturally, he's also Germanic/Northern European which I tend to see as very Te/Fi valuing, and so being logical and possessing a strong rational bent is a valued commodity there--the environment that nurtures us can definitely have an impact on how our functions manifest (especially the Super Ego functions, which, for a IEI, would be Te and Si). But I jokingly call him baby ****** (who also was IEI--people who say otherwise don't know what they're talking about lol) because he is so forceful, dominant, charismatic and loves the idea of "Mein Kampf" or my struggle, and it was just interesting that you spoke of valuing a struggle towards some noble endeavor at the end of your video.

[Flying Dutchman]

Ok, answer this > can you feel/take on the emotions of others and whatever environment you're apart of, as if by contagion? Valuing Fe involves being dynamically aware of the "continuous excitations in people's emotional" states. To varying extents and degrees, all Fe valuers (E*Es, the most and L*Is, the least) are aware of and in tune with the ambient emotional vibes in the environment, though they may have differing facility and competency when it comes to utilizing and responding to this brand of "feedback." If you relate to this, then Alpha and Beta quadra are likely. If not, that leaves Delta and Gamma.

Yes I do relate to that. But me taking on others emotions tends to be somewhat selective and reserved for people I can somehow relate to, liking them. I am business-like around business-like people, I try to be fun around fun people, sad around the sad et cetera. I am not a true PRO on displaying emotions like ExFj’s seem to be but it’s clearly noticable for me. I clearly remember being on a bus one time and I could just sense (probably visually) that a woman in the seat across from me was feeling very depressed/sad. I took those emotions over and could actually feel it weighing down on me for the whole evening. I wanted to help, do something about it, but I knew that I wasn’t in the position to be able to. So yeah that’s my version of empathy.

[Flying Dutchman]

This excerpt from your video is very Fe-valuing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in keeping with my previous post, it seems that you are sensitive to the emotional environment, and like to maintain an elevated feeling and dislike when others disrupt that feeling, due in large part because you can "feel" the "negative" vibes. This whole thing was rather Beta, actually, especially seeing as how you don't mind using Se to put those who fuck up the vibes in their place. lol

You VI just like a brilliant, elegant IEI-Fe (accentuated Se) friend of mine who runs a successful modeling agency; culturally, he's also Germanic/Northern European which I tend to see as very Te/Fi valuing, and so being logical and possessing a strong rational bent is a valued commodity there--the environment that nurtures us can definitely have an impact on how our functions manifest (especially the Super Ego functions, which, for a IEI, would be Te and Si). But I jokingly call him baby ****** (who also was IEI--people who say otherwise don't know what they're talking about lol) because he is so forceful, dominant, charismatic and loves the idea of "Mein Kampf" or my struggle, and it was just interesting that you spoke of valuing a struggle towards some noble endeavor at the end of your video.

Haha, I relate to your friend in the whole ‘Mein Kampf’ idea! It’s true that I am very sensitive to emotional environments. Because I usually viewed my Fe as somewhat sensitive and incompetent, I make use of a combination of Ni and Ti to influence environments in a more respectable and tough way. A statement I can really agree on is “What can’t be solved through reason or inherited decency is to be solved through enforcement”.

[Alonzo]

Yes I do relate to that. But me taking on others emotions tends to be somewhat selective and reserved for people I can somehow relate to, liking them. I am business-like around business-like people, I try to be fun around fun people, sad around the sad et cetera. I am not a true PRO on displaying emotions like ExFj’s seem to be but it’s clearly noticable for me. I clearly remember being on a bus one time and I could just sense (probably visually) that a woman in the seat across from me was feeling very depressed/sad. I took those emotions over and could actually feel it weighing down on me for the whole evening. I wanted to help, do something about it, but I knew that I wasn’t in the position to be able to. So yeah that’s my version of empathy.

Yup, a total chameleon, empathic IEI. And yes, of all the strong, conscious Fe valuers, IEIs are perhaps the least stereotypically Fe, as in they aren't uncontrollably smiley and spewing emotions all over the god damned place. They can appear to be rather cold and aloof by default, but then adapt and take another form when up close and one on one.

Do you know what type your father is? Just asking because you mentioned having a lot of heated fights with him and that he was "intelligent and strategic" and put a lot of mental pressure on you. To me, that may suggest that he was LIE, or maybe LSE, and therefore a supervisor and conflictor. Being raised by those who are strong in your weak, unvalued functions can make those functions take on a greater priority in your consciousness. Because, theoretically, the environment would then demand that you use them in order to "survive." Or perhaps your father could be SLE, your dual, and your weaker functions have been sufficiently dualized to the point where you value them more consciously, thereby causing them to manifest more ostensibly.

[Chakram]

With this new information from the video, it does seem unlikely that you are SEE. Definitely Fe valuing and Beta with your emphasis and seemingly valuing or seeking Se.

[Flying Dutchman]

Yup, a total chameleon, empathic IEI. And yes, of all the strong, conscious Fe valuers, IEIs are perhaps the least stereotypically Fe, as in they aren't uncontrollably smiley and spewing emotions all over the god damned place. They can appear to be rather cold and aloof by default, but then adapt and take another form when up close and one on one.

Do you know what type your father is? Just asking because you mentioned having a lot of heated fights with him and that he was "intelligent and strategic" and put a lot of mental pressure on you. To me, that may suggest that he was LIE, or maybe LSE, and therefore a supervisor and conflictor. Being raised by those who are strong in your weak, unvalued functions can make those functions take on a greater priority in your consciousness. Because, theoretically, the environment would then demand that you use them in order to "survive." Or perhaps your father could be SLE, your dual, and your weaker functions have been sufficiently dualized to the point where you value them more consciously, thereby causing them to manifest more ostensibly.

Yeah my dad is definitely a Te-ego. I do really get along with him, especially dealing with entrepreneurial stuff and he doesn’t seem to hit my PoLR (often). My mom is an intuitive, probably ethical. I usually provide the bridge in communication between them whenever there is a misunderstanding. The only possibilities I’m considering as of now are IEI (going to investigate that into more depth) and LIE (Si-PoLR doesn’t seem extremely obvious, Se-HA is possible though). What I wanted to know is: how are the differences between a IEI-Fe with visible and developed Se and a LIE-Ni with developed Fe the most noticeable? I get Fi vs Fe valuing but LIE-ESI duality would describe me spot on regarding the functions that I would benefit from and appreciate. Ip vs Ej temp is somewhat depending on what environment I am observed in so that seems to be a close tie.

[Alonzo]

Yeah my dad is definitely a Te-ego. I do really get along with him, especially dealing with entrepreneurial stuff and he doesn’t seem to hit my PoLR (often). My mom is an intuitive, probably ethical. I usually provide the bridge in communication between them whenever there is a misunderstanding. The only possibilities I’m considering as of now are IEI (going to investigate that into more depth) and LIE (Si-PoLR doesn’t seem extremely obvious, Se-HA is possible though). What I wanted to know is: how are the differences between a IEI-Fe with visible and developed Se and a LIE-Ni with developed Fe the most noticeable? I get Fi vs Fe valuing but LIE-ESI duality would describe me spot on regarding the functions that I would benefit from and appreciate. Ip vs Ej temp is somewhat depending on what environment I am observed in so that seems to be a close tie.

A LIE-Ni would have accentuated Ni, Fe (IEI or EIE)/ Ne, Fi (IEE or EII) and like myself, potentially come off like some savage NF--folks around here love to mistype me as EIE, which I can somewhat understand.

A IEI-Fe would have accentuated Fe, Si (ESE or SEI)/ Fi, Se (ESI or SEE) and potentially come off like a more social, probably extroverted SF & a IEI-Ni would have accentuated Ni, Te (ILI or LIE)/ Ti, Ne (LII or ILE) and might come off like a more introverted NT (especially with the accentuation of a lead introverted function). But when you speak about the group being your responsability and actively influencing group dynamics, that's more SF territory. ESEs, for example, can be uber dominant and aggressive in manipulating the group in a way that they desire, if they so choose. They are sometimes seen to be rigid enforcers of Fe protocol. It's very "what can’t be solved through reason or inherited decency is to be solved through enforcement." lol They have the strong, unconscious 4D Se to do this.

What discounts LIE for you, I believe, is that we don't experience emotional contagion--we don't utilize affective empathy and feeling the emotions of others. We can either utilize Se to observe and notice someone's behavior and then impart sympathy (which is to be distinguished from empathy) OR attempt to place ourselves in another person's shoes by virtue of Fi perspective taking/cognitive empathy and "mind reading"--but we're not that good at this unless the situation that demands our empathy is something we've previously encountered/experienced before (1-2D Fi). My Fe is accentuated in that I know how to better fake it, but not that I'm actually feeling anything. Moreover, I'd still look like a foolish, silly amateur when sitting next to a E*E or *EI, or even a *EE.

And your desires, fears, goals and ambitions seem very Beta Se seeking/dualizing > aggressive expansion, power/authority/hierarchy, unafraid of conflict, not wanting to be weak or timid, wanting to be the best/head of the pack. According to the theory, an IEI would soothe (by way of imparting empathy, understanding and 'vision' to) the SLE beast and then lovingly (or not) manipulate them into aiding their covert desire for world domination. lol

[Flying Dutchman]

A LIE-Ni would have accentuated Ni, Fe (IEI or EIE)/ Ne, Fi (IEE or EII) and like myself, potentially come off like some savage NF--folks around here love to mistype me as EIE, which I can somewhat understand.

A IEI-Fe would have accentuated Fe, Si (ESE or SEI)/ Fi, Se (ESI or SEE) and potentially come off like a more social, probably extroverted SF & a IEI-Ni would have accentuated Ni, Te (ILI or LIE)/ Ti, Ne (LII or ILE) and might come off like a more introverted NT (especially with the accentuation of a lead introverted function). But when you speak about the group being your responsability and actively influencing group dynamics, that's more SF territory. ESEs, for example, can be uber dominant and aggressive in manipulating the group in a way that they desire, if they so choose. They are sometimes seen to be rigid enforcers of Fe protocol. It's very "what can’t be solved through reason or inherited decency is to be solved through enforcement." lol They have the strong, unconscious 4D Se to do this.

What discounts LIE for you, I believe, is that we don't experience emotional contagion--we don't utilize affective empathy and feeling the emotions of others. We can either utilize Se to observe and notice someone's behavior and then impart sympathy (which is to be distinguished from empathy) OR attempt to place ourselves in another person's shoes by virtue of Fi perspective taking/cognitive empathy and "mind reading"--but we're not that good at this unless the situation that demands our empathy is something we've previously encountered/experienced before (1-2D Fi). My Fe is accentuated in that I know how to better fake it, but not that I'm actually feeling anything. Moreover, I'd still look like a foolish, silly amateur when sitting next to a E*E or *EI, or even a *EE.

And your desires, fears, goals and ambitions seem very Beta Se seeking/dualizing > aggressive expansion, power/authority/hierarchy, unafraid of conflict, not wanting to be weak or timid, wanting to be the best/head of the pack. According to the theory, an IEI would soothe (by way of imparting empathy, understanding and 'vision' to) the SLE beast and then lovingly (or not) manipulate them into aiding their covert desire for world domination. lol

Very interesting. I will look into this further. My family members, who I have taught a few things about Socionics as well also agreed on my Beta typing from the start. That’s a reason why I have been extra skeptical towards a typing that involves a whole different Quadra. Ni/Se and the concept of openness and honesty is also very valued in my household, making a preference towards Rational IE’s a bit stronger as well. E3w4 and a strong perfectionistic trait is also very evident in me and my sister so that makes it even more interesting in terms of environment influencing type behaviors.

[golden]

EIE - drive for social interactions.

Pretty vague, seems incorrect. It might be a drive for meaningful expression. This could look social because a message needs a receiver.

Carry on.

[Alonzo]

Very interesting. I will look into this further. My family members, who I have taught a few things about Socionics as well also agreed on my Beta typing from the start. That’s a reason why I have been extra skeptical towards a typing that involves a whole different Quadra. Ni/Se and the concept of openness and honesty is also very valued in my household, making a preference towards Rational IE’s a bit stronger as well. E3w4 and a strong perfectionistic trait is also very evident in me and my sister so that makes it even more interesting in terms of environment influencing type behaviors.

Yes, when Northern Europeans usually say "openness and honesty," they mean bone chilling bluntness and directness--the Dutch are famous for this. lol Culture (society at large and the one in the home) matters, dude.

I think intuitive types are overall more perfectionist than sensors from the standpoint that reality limits our imagination and we can often refuse to accept these limitations due to being so heavily invested in manifesting our dreams/visions/ideals and so we can be hellbent on forcing reality to conform to us and denying it when it doesn't.

And I have rarely encountered a NJ/Strong, conscious Ni valuer, in particular, who didn't possess some sort of perfectionist tendency. For one, Ni predisposes us to subjective ideals (re: mastery, competence, value, worth, meaning, truth, self-actualization) of how things (including ourselves) should be/go/happen/manifest/look/work out and weaker, not as limber and lithe subconscious Se can make us less realistic about how our ideals and visions may actually pan out. Relatively shitty Si means that we may go to all sorts of potentially (self) destructive extremes to reach our goals and if things don't conform to our exact standard or image of something, we can be disappointed/frustrated/angry/despondent/apathetic/cynical and make life a consistently dissatisfying (self sabotaging) hell for ourselves and everyone else (unreasonable, controlling, aggressive, whiny, self pitying, overreacting, unyielding, blaming).

[Flying Dutchman]

Yes, when Northern Europeans usually say "openness and honesty," they mean bone chilling bluntness and directness--the Dutch are famous for this. lol Culture (society at large and the one in the home) matters, dude.

I think intuitive types are overall more perfectionist than sensors from the standpoint that reality limits our imagination and we can often refuse to accept these limitations due to being so heavily invested in manifesting our dreams/visions/ideals and so we can be hellbent on forcing reality to conform to us and denying it when it doesn't.

And I have rarely encountered a NJ/Strong, conscious Ni valuer, in particular, who didn't possess some sort of perfectionist tendency. For one, Ni predisposes us to subjective ideals (re: mastery, competence, value, worth, meaning, truth, self-actualization) of how things (including ourselves) should be/go/happen/manifest/look/work out and weaker, not as limber and lithe subconscious Se can make us less realistic about how our ideals and visions may actually pan out. Relatively shitty Si means that we may go to all sorts of potentially (self) destructive extremes to reach our goals and if things don't conform to our exact standard or image of something, we can be disappointed/frustrated/angry/despondent/apathetic/cynical and make life a consistently dissatisfying (self sabotaging) hell for ourselves and everyone else (unreasonable, controlling, aggressive, whiny, self pitying, overreacting, unyielding, blaming).

Yeah that’s really true. What would you think made a difference in typing between an Introverted Extraverted cognition? Since having Te as a PoLR usually doesn’t manifest in being used to make changes within a given environment. I can get very impatient with people who cling to a slow method of dealing with things and I really confront them about that as well. How would you combine this with Te PoLR?

[Sol]

I am known for using Se, in comparison with most others I am full of Se and I just use it more as necessary than as recreational. That’s why I think I am valuing it to say the least. LIE isn’t out of the picture either.

only S types use Se good. to have Ni is not enough. Si use this good too, but lesser directly. N types remind clowns in S regions, exept some skills they may develop

to understand valued kind of a function in yourself is harder than to understand a dichotomy. for novices is better to use IR effects to understnd this. if you'll do IR test - you'll probably see what valued types fit you better. you may also to type people IRL near you and emotionally important ones. IR is a little quicker - some hours compared to some monthes. but it's your choice

you may also talk about typology with useless noobs which unable to understand even own types. this you may do for years

wbr

[Alonzo]

only S types use Se good. to have Ni is not enough. Si use this good too, but lesser directly. N types remind clowns in S regions, exept some skills they may develop

lol Why are you so intellectually dishonest? Enneagram 1s can be such hypocrites. Look, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If intuitive types look like "clowns" when it comes to the sensory, the same can be said for sensors when it comes to properly utilizing intuition, and there is no better representation of that than you.

you may also talk about typology with useless noobs which unable to understand even own types. this you may do for years

wbr

You're way too old to be this jealous and bitter. Or are you staring down the empty barrel of yet another unrefined, grainy, stove top distilled vodka? You perfectly illustrate the limitations of Si and particularly trash Ni. You cognitively refuse (which is more diplomatic than calling you retarded) to take in new concepts that don't rigidly conform to some outdated, flawed, imperfect theory (which is fine, because theories can evolve and improve as long as one has the strong intuition to push the boundaries) you learned 30 years ago. Strong Ni means that I can notice patterns across multiple theoretical systems, find the most persistent, enduring themes (both things that work and things that don't) and merge them together to get a system and method that works most optimally/best, in that it is holistic and addresses many of the inconsistencies that make the various systems individually problematic, which is why I'm a much better typist than you are, even though I've been doing it for a mere fraction of the time that you have. Evolve or die, bitch.

[Flying Dutchman]

only S types use Se good. to have Ni is not enough. Si use this good too, but lesser directly. N types remind clowns in S regions, exept some skills they may develop

to understand valued kind of a function in yourself is harder than to understand a dichotomy. for novices is better to use IR effects to understnd this. if you'll do IR test - you'll probably see what valued types fit you better. you may also to type people IRL near you and emotionally important ones. IR is a little quicker - some hours compared to some monthes. but it's your choice

you may also talk about typology with useless noobs which unable to understand even own types. this you may do for years

wbr

I have looked around for a bit, and it turns out that your methods/ways of thinking dealing with Socionics are somewhat distrusted. Btw, your IR test gave LIE>IEI=IEE as key results. Using Se good however, isn’t limited to S types. Being an N doesn’t make you a clown at all using S regions. When directly compared, it is usually so that SxE’s tend to be more “sophisticated” in their use of Se than their intuitive Quadra members.

But it doesn’t mean that it necessarily looks shitty when an Intuitive practices Se in a situation. A sensor could look very shitty at it as well. Otherwise, it would be extremely easy to type someone as a sensor/intuitive, especially by their own kind (they are the real deal so they should be able to see instantly if someone is a true sensor/intuitive or not by measuring their level of skill in said functions). That would simplify it way too much. In such a case, only a type’s Identical would be capable enough to type someone with 100% accuracy.

[ooo]

no way on earth you're IEI. strong Se, extro tendencies, logical type. btw you're fairly too young to tell for sure.

[Flying Dutchman]

no way on earth you're IEI. strong Se, extro tendencies, logical type. btw you're fairly too young to tell for sure.

At least the Beta Quadra remains an overall certain element in typing.

[ooo]

yeah, I would exclude a gamma

[Alonzo]

Yeah that’s really true. What would you think made a difference in typing between an Introverted Extraverted cognition? Since having Te as a PoLR usually doesn’t manifest in being used to make changes within a given environment. I can get very impatient with people who cling to a slow method of dealing with things and I really confront them about that as well. How would you combine this with Te PoLR?

1.) Ultimately, introversion and extroversion come down to whether one is more inward focused or outward focused. The complicating matter is that most people experience some degree of "ambiversion" (depending on the situation, they may be more extroverted or introverted than what they usually/actually are) but overall people tend to be predisposed to one side over another. According to many theoretical models, balance between introversion and extroversion (which, effectively, is ambiversion) is the ideal state, which can happen by way of function development.

I also believe that to some extent, "ambiversion" can both be attributed to one's inborn nature as well as how one is nurtured > there were circumstances in my life growing up that forced me into a lot of solitude where I was left alone with my imagination and subjective feelings, which could be why I'm not a typical extrovert (certainly not in the social sense); I do gain more energy and vigor from "extroverting," but I can also go long periods of time living in my head. Just as there are introverts that gain more energy when they are allowed to turn inwardly, but can extrovert like a MFer when they want to, to the extent that others may believe them to be naturally extroverted.

2.) Fe is concerned with dynamically assessing the moods and attitudes of one's surroundings alongside analyzing and evaluating the sentiments and ethical actions and choices of others, based on their observable, palpable emotional states. From this, they then choose how to impact the emotional and social space, which can be done through a plethora of diverse combinations of words and gestures > whether that manifest somberly, cooly, aggressively, angrily, joyfully, whatever, provided its emotively based. For example, one employee might be fragile and require a few gentle pats on the back and uplifting words of encouragement and another employee might better benefit from the spittle in the face, drill sergeant approach--Fe knows how to tap into the emotional landscape and utilize the best, most effective emotion driven response to meet its needs, whatever that might be (and it isn't always pleasant).

3.) We're not inclined to like dealing with our PoLR functions and so when we are forced to, there can definitely be a lot of frustration involved. As a Si PoLR, I sometimes hate that I have to do things like eat and sleep. lol They are such staggering limitations, to me. If possible, I'd much rather have a catheter or compact, mobile IV feeding me all of my required nutrients so that I don't have to stop and worry about what/how much I'm consuming at any given time. When I work with teams that require all kinds of (reasonable and understandable) lunch/dinner/rest breaks, my instinct is to be frustrated and write them off as being inherently weak, because they allow their bodies to get in the way of what I deem to be more important. lol Cognitive biases are real and ridiculous.

[Alonzo]

At least the Beta Quadra remains an overall certain element in typing.

Most people around here don't know how to type, PERIODT. They are the reasons why people routinely mistype themselves, because they lack quality information from diverse, quality sources; and they lack a nuanced, sophisticated, multi-pronged approach when it comes deciphering who someone is, a gargantuan undertaking, especially when assessing a multidimensional being over the fucking internet. One would think that it would be fairly fucking obvious that there are a confluence of factors that contribute to one's personality and how that manifests, and so hyper reductionist, overly simplistic readings should be avoided. But, alas.

I wouldn't say that you have strong (i.e., high D) Se, necessarily, but that your Se seeking is strong. Se is concerned with volitional will, an energetic IMPACT, that usually manifests palpably in one's presence and energy levels. That was not at all evident in your video--you were rather energetically contained, composed, refined, and somewhat withdrawn--even the volume of your voice immediately signified "introvert" to me. Sitting next to you, I'd look like a mad man. lol And next to my SEE-Se mother, both of us would look like measly house cats besides a roaring lioness. Moreover, I've previously spoken to this elsewhere > "Kobe Bryant is a LIE with low D Se and yet he's one of the best basketball players of all time, a sport dominated by Se leads/creatives. Why? Because he has an ungodly work ethic and through experience(which is particularly how low D functions grow), has grown to a high level of Se competence, even if not blessed with natural Se facility, which are two different things." It is definitely possible to improve one's utilization of a weaker function (especially when it's valued), even if it doesn't come naturally. I know a IEI rock climber, FFS.

Lastly, it would be fucking impossible, to be the type of empath you admitted to being, capable of taking on someone's emotions in such an amazing way, if you were a logical type. *LEs and L*Is can also pick up ambient emotional vibes in an environment, but not to the degree and not with the nuanced facility that a E*E or *EI can. The whole point of being an ethical type is that those concerns dominate logical concerns and if one is more in touch with how others are feeling, the weight of those emotions will often push them to prioritize those concerns, first and foremost. Moreover, *EIs and *LIs use logic and ethics with more balance and so it can at times seem that they have no preference for one over the other. But with ethical types at the extremes, E*Es and E*Is, their de-prioritization of logical matters is more apparent. But did any of the (largely) amateurs that have commented thus far mention that? lol NOPE.

[Flying Dutchman]

Most people around here don't know how to type, PERIODT. They are the reasons why people routinely mistype themselves, because they lack quality information from diverse, quality sources; and they lack a nuanced, sophisticated, multi-pronged approach when it comes deciphering who someone is, a gargantuan undertaking, especially when assessing a multidimensional being over the fucking internet. One would think that it would be fairly fucking obvious that there are a confluence of factors that contribute to one's personality and how that manifests, and so hyper reductionist, overly simplistic readings should be avoided. But, alas.

I wouldn't say that you have strong (i.e., high D) Se, necessarily, but that your Se seeking is strong. Se is concerned with volitional will, an energetic IMPACT, that usually manifests palpably in one's presence and energy levels. That was not at all evident in your video--you were rather energetically contained, composed, refined, and somewhat withdrawn--even the volume of your voice immediately signified "introvert" to me. Sitting next to you, I'd look like a mad man. lol And next to my SEE-Se mother, both of us would look like measly house cats besides a roaring lioness. Moreover, I've previously spoken to this elsewhere > "Kobe Bryant is a LIE with low D Se and yet he's one of the best basketball players of all time, a sport dominated by Se leads/creatives. Why? Because he has an ungodly work ethic and through experience(which is particularly how low D functions grow), has grown to a high level of Se competence, even if not blessed with natural Se facility, which are two different things." It is definitely possible to improve one's utilization of a weaker function (especially when it's valued), even if it doesn't come naturally. I know a IEI rock climber, FFS.

Lastly, it would be fucking impossible, to be the type of empath you admitted to being, capable of taking on someone's emotions in such an amazing way, if you were a logical type. *LEs and L*Is can also pick up ambient emotional vibes in an environment, but not to the degree and not with the nuanced facility that a E*E or *EI can. The whole point of being an ethical type is that those concerns dominate logical concerns and if one is more in touch with how others are feeling, the weight of those emotions will often push them to prioritize those concerns, first and foremost. Moreover, *EIs and *LIs use logic and ethics with more balance and so it can at times seem that they have no preference for one over the other. But with ethical types at the extremes, E*Es and E*Is, their de-prioritization of logical matters is more apparent. But did any of the (largely) amateurs that have commented thus far mention that? lol NOPE.

Fair point indeed! Using a lot of Se isn’t depending on having it as a Ego-function but how it got developed does. Dimensionality of the function

[Sol]

strong Se

he's N. S is weak

it's not so rare when people do not understand what function has more precence in their mind. novices make mistakes more often. his selfperception means not much and nothing good to suppose S type

in case of Ni type - they are not good in Se. they wish to get such support from outside. they may talk about it, try to follow surface norms, but practically have same troubles as any N. they may develop concrete skills related to weak functions

if to apply model A, - there is role function. people tend to try to look better on public in this region. probably his case, if he has ILE. by role they may _sometimes_ look as good in this region, if to look at what they do a little and surfacely.
my base Te generally has "poker face", but I may show myself emotionally agitated for other people if want to give better impression on them. if to see me in 1st time on public in such situations - I may remind Fe types - I smile, joke, talk without Spock's intonations - look "ok", as a clowning in Fe. but I'm not even close to emotionality of Fe type on general time scale

[Flying Dutchman]

he's N. S is weak

it's not so rare when people do not understand what function has more precence in their mind. novices make mistakes more often. his selfperception means not much and nothing good to suppose S type

in case of Ni type - they are not good in Se. they wish to get such support from outside. they may talk about it, try to follow surface norms, but practically have same troubles as any N. they may develop concrete skills related to weak functions

if to apply model A, - there is role function. people tend to try to look better on public in this region. probably his case, if he has ILE. by role they may _sometimes_ look as good in this region, if to look at what they do a little and surfacely.
my base Te generally has "poker face", but I may show myself emotionally agitated for other people if want to give better impression on them. if to see me in 1st time on public in such situations - I may remind Fe types - I smile, joke, talk without Spock's intonations - look "ok", as a clowning in Fe. but I'm not even close to emotionality of Fe type on general time scale

True but I wasn’t necessarily building a case for being an S. I was trying to get you to accept the fact that valued IE’s, whether by Model A or just general values, can in fact look quite natural. That is unless you put them into situations where a 4/3D skill in the certain IE is necessary. In such a case, a lack of REAL skill could be observed if the observer is somewhat familiar with how the manifestation of said IE should normally look like. It is like someone with HA-Fe who is raised by very expressive and emotional parents and environment. It would be more expected that such an individual would perform “better” when trying to console someone. But if you would put them in a situation that’s completely unfamiliar for them and requires skilled use of Fe, it would become evident that the individual wasn’t that skilled after all.

[Sol]

True but I wasn’t necessarily building a case for being an S. I was trying to get you to accept the fact that valued IE’s

IR test is the best way to understand your valued S/N functions directly, besides VI
then a questionnaire with questions on 8 functions, in case you did not know the theory
any other ways are doubtful

I'd recommend to follow what I offer. I mess with the typology longer than this forum exists and typed more people than local noobs in sum.

[ooo]

alright, I watched the video first and got struck by the importance you put into being better of everyone somehow, you talk about yourself with pride and confidence, wish for people to follow you, all of this looked Se to me.

we can say that an interest in psychology is typical of F types, but that would be a stereotype. we can say that only NFs have strong ideals and work to achieve their ideals for a better world, it would be another stereotype.

and Extroverts are not all popping around as if on steroids. Introverts are not all deep thinkers who talk to God daily.

also, a strong function doesn't mean it has necessarily a high dimension. dimensions are about the information we integrate in each function. the more basic the information, the less developed* is the function. which doesn't mean someone with strong Se got to have it as a valued function, or in their ego, it just mean they can use it more and have it more "popping" than someone with the same functional stacking. anyway, usually, strength and dimension coincide, just not always.

so, back to the typing, what do you focus on in the test+video ? willpower, hierarchy, goals, exclusive team work, remotion of the things that cause discomfort, appreciation of logical consistency, connection to your high energetic levels. it upsets you when people don't follow your guide, act illogically, or feeling weak.

> https://sociotype.com/socionics/types/SLE-ESTp/

the reason why I exclude Fe lead, which could be a not too bad option, is because you admittedly lack the ability to understand the inner motions of people, you don't detect their flowing drives, don't consider it worthy of you to submit to what someone else wants. this discourse works for IEI too. in general, you've never talked about people if not in the way to directly influence them, this is far from what an ego Feeling function does.

gnè

*dimensionally

[Alonzo]

alright, I watched the video first and got struck by the importance you put into being better of everyone somehow, you talk about yourself with pride and confidence, wish for people to follow you, all of this looked Se to me.

we can say that an interest in psychology is typical of F types, but that would be a stereotype. we can say that only NFs have strong ideals and work to achieve their ideals for a better world, it would be another stereotype.

and Extroverts are not all popping around as if on steroids. Introverts are not all deep thinkers who talk to God daily.

also, a strong function doesn't mean it has necessarily a high dimension. dimensions are about the information we integrate in each function. the more basic the information, the less developed is the fucntion. which doesn't mean someone with strong Se got to have it as a valued function, or in their ego, it just mean they can use it more and have it more "popping" than someone with the same functional stacking. anyway, usually, strength and dimension coincide, just not always.

so, back to the typing, what do you focus on in the test+video ? willpower, hierarchy, goals, exclusive team work, remotion of the things that cause discomfort, appreciation of logical consistency, connection to your high energetic levels. it upsets you when people don't follow your guide, act illogically, or feeling weak.

> https://sociotype.com/socionics/types/SLE-ESTp/

the reason why I exclude Fe lead, which could be a not too bad option, is because you admittedly lack the ability to understand the inner motions of people, you don't detect their flowing drives, don't consider it worthy of you to submit to what someone else wants. this discourse works for IEI too. in general, you've never talked about people if not in the way to directly influence them, this is far from what an ego Feeling function does.

gnè

lol This is all wrong.

[ooo]

you wish

[consentingadult]

For proper typing, we need a video without the glasses, spoken in Dutch. Only LIIs can be properly typed with their glasses on.

[WinnieW]

Only LIIs can be properly typed with their glasses on.

[The Reality Denialist]

For proper typing, we need a video without the glasses, spoken in Dutch. Only LIIs can be properly typed with their glasses on.

even then proper range for validity is between -3.25 D and -7.75 D with no anti reflective coating.

[consentingadult]

even then proper range for validity is between -3.25 D and -7.75 D with no anti reflective coating.

I concur.

[Flying Dutchman]

I will see if I can upload a new video today (without the glasses and in Dutch).

[consentingadult]

I will see if I can upload a new video today (without the glasses and in Dutch).

Perhaps try to frame the view on your face, it will be better to see facial expressions and we do not need to see your whole body. And ask the camera-woman to keep her phone landscape, not upright, so the screen to watch will be bigger, alvast bedankt!

[Tallmo]

I think you seem LII

[Flying Dutchman]

I am curious if any of you are able to point into the direction of a PoLR of mine based on what I’ve said. Sorry that it will take a little longer before I make the video, I am very busy these days. I am intrigued however, by the number of people that considered LII for me. That’s one of the reasons I’d like to ask everyone to try and provide an opinion to what my PoLR is, without plainly stating that my type is so-and-so without delving into the principles underneath the theory. Curious and looking forward to it! Thanks in advance!

[Sol]

I will see if I can upload a new video today (without the glasses and in Dutch).

among recent cases. a girl typed to SEI by photos did then this test with ILE at top (1st place)
a dude typed to ESI by video then sorted the types with ILI and LIE at top 2 types
the examples, that it works and can be useful

as for video. as I'm the only here who has good typing skills by nonverbal and you got my relatively assured opinion about alpha T - you'd better spend the efforts on IR test. though video mb useful too - to check between ILE/LII

[Flying Dutchman]

among recent cases. a girl typed to SEI by photos did then this test with ILE at top (1st place)
a dude typed to ESI by video then sorted the types with ILI and LIE at top 2 types
the examples, that it works and can be useful

as for video. as I'm the only here who has good typing skills by nonverbal and you got my relatively assured opinion about alpha T - you'd better spend the efforts on IR test. though video mb useful too - to check between ILE/LII

I have responded before regarding the IR test. I got LIE first, followed by IEE being tied to IEI as keys.

[ooo]

speechless

[Alonzo]

I am curious if any of you are able to point into the direction of a PoLR of mine based on what I’ve said. Sorry that it will take a little longer before I make the video, I am very busy these days. I am intrigued however, by the number of people that considered LII for me. That’s one of the reasons I’d like to ask everyone to try and provide an opinion to what my PoLR is, without plainly stating that my type is so-and-so without delving into the principles underneath the theory. Curious and looking forward to it! Thanks in advance!

Succinctly put, LII would make no sense for you because they are Se PoLR and your comments regarding Se are the antithesis of that. Moreover, LIIs are not empaths that readily and "easily empathize with people if they want to" (your words); the same can be said for SLEs, which is why that was another bad suggestion--they have low D Fe and are Fi PoLR (IEIs have strong 4D demonstrative Fi) and though they might be able to detect another person's ambient emotional vibes, they would find it exceedingly difficult to close the psychological distance between them (Fi) and a random person on the bus, to the degree that it brings them down for the rest of the evening. Logical types do not engage in this type of thing with any cognitive ease, comfort, sophistication and natural facility.

P.S. I've given you loads of Te (backed up with Ti) but you're still engaging in Fe consensus taking concerning your type. lol A good example of Te PoLR.

[Flying Dutchman]

Succinctly put, LII would make no sense for you because they are Se PoLR and your comments regarding Se are the antithesis of that. Moreover, LIIs are not empaths that readily and "easily empathize with people if they want to" (your words); the same can be said for SLEs, which is why that was another bad suggestion--they have low D Fe and are Fi PoLR (IEIs have strong 4D demonstrative Fi) and though might be able to detect another person's ambient emotional vibes, they would find it exceedingly difficult to close the psychological distance between them (Fi) and a random person on the bus, to the degree that it brings them down for the rest of the evening. Logical types do not engage in this type of thing with any cognitive ease, comfort, sophistication and natural facility.

Nicely put. In what exact ways would the SLE be incapable of such an act for instance? How does their Fi-PoLR readily manifest in a way that’s undeniable? Tough question, but I really like a full understanding regarding any topic I am studying.

[ooo]

Logical types do not engage in this type of thing with any cognitive ease, comfort, sophistication and natural facility.

sociopathic types maybe. everyone is capable of empathy, it's just a sign of healthiness if he feels like that.