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Thread: LSE and IEI conflict

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default LSE and IEI conflict

    So my LSE friend is married to an IEI and he says to me if she asked for his help in making a concrete choice like picking cheese she would pick the opposite of what he wants or they agree with. What is the IEI doing?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    she's probably pushing to get some Se, what else?

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    There is a possibility that the LSE version of events isn't exactly the correct one. LSEs do seem to like being the ones in control and IEIs tend to circle the wagons when it comes to control freaks.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I don't see the issue. I do the same thing. Just because you ask someone's opinion doesn't mean you have to act accordingly. You can consider what they told you in your decision making process but not actually do what they suggested in the end. Their opinion is just one of many factors that matter.

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    conflict IR has no relation to food tastes
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    I don't see the issue. I do the same thing. Just because you ask someone's opinion doesn't mean you have to act accordingly. You can consider what they told you in your decision making process but not actually do what they suggested in the end. Their opinion is just one of many factors that matter.
    Then why be a cooperative team if you're going to agree on something and the other person purposely doing the opposite thing. Where's the teamwork?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    So my LSE friend is married to an IEI and he says to me if she asked for his help in making a concrete choice like picking cheese she would pick the opposite of what he wants or they agree with. What is the IEI doing?
    Lo fucking L. Its doomed. One of them might end up dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    I don't see the issue. I do the same thing. Just because you ask someone's opinion doesn't mean you have to act accordingly. You can consider what they told you in your decision making process but not actually do what they suggested in the end. Their opinion is just one of many factors that matter.
    Very true, but you deeply offend LSE if you don't take their opinion. They would see it as sabotaging a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    There is a possibility that the LSE version of events isn't exactly the correct one. LSEs do seem to like being the ones in control and IEIs tend to circle the wagons when it comes to control freaks.

    a.k.a. I/O
    this a thousand times.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
    Very true, but you deeply offend LSE if you don't take their opinion. They would see it as sabotaging a good thing.
    YUP
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Then why be a cooperative team if you're going to agree on something and the other person purposely doing the opposite thing. Where's the teamwork?
    The teamwork is in the thinking. If in the end the decision will only impact one person then that one person gets to have the final word even if they asked for advice.
    However if the decision is going to impact everybody then I would say that going about it this way is a little selfish. In this case we are just talking about cheese anyway. Maybe she didn't think that it was so important and that he would take it in this way.
    If you want my opinion I think that he should just tell her that this behavior upsets him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    So my LSE friend is married to an IEI and he says to me if she asked for his help in making a concrete choice like picking cheese she would pick the opposite of what he wants or they agree with. What is the IEI doing?
    That's cuz she not an IEI. This happens to LSEs who get married to another sensing type, so then LSE's sensing and sensing of their partner starts to conflict over making "concrete" choices.

    The typical types to display this behavior are ESIs, the LSE's semi-dual, but also ESE's, LSI's, and Si-dom types, where picking a different sensory preference serves as a way for these types to demonstrate their disagreement with an LSE as well as a reinforcement of their own sensory preferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    That's cuz she not an IEI. This happens to LSEs who get married to another sensing type, so then LSE's sensing and sensing of their partner starts to conflict over making "concrete" choices.

    The typical types to display this behavior are ESIs, the LSE's semi-dual, but also ESE's, LSI's, and Si-dom types, where picking a different sensory preference serves as a way for these types to demonstrate their disagreement with an LSE as well as a reinforcement of their own sensory preferences.
    So very true. Two sensors can get on each other's nerves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    That's cuz she not an IEI. This happens to LSEs who get married to another sensing type, so then LSE's sensing and sensing of their partner starts to conflict over making "concrete" choices.

    The typical types to display this behavior are ESIs, the LSE's semi-dual, but also ESE's, LSI's, and Si-dom types, where picking a different sensory preference serves as a way for these types to demonstrate their disagreement with an LSE as well as a reinforcement of their own sensory preferences.
    i asked for a VI and she's an S
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    she's probably pushing to get some Se, what else?
    Exactly right! I think I told this anecdote before, but I'll repeat it here: I was working the eveing shift occasionally in the restaurant of an Amsterdam university. Each night one of the professors, probably ILI (although IEI is not out of the question either), was wandering around in indicision about what to eat. I discussed his behavior with the regular chefs, who told me he was doing that every day. It turned out that they always explained to him what was available, but not what he should get. So next time he passed my counter, I basically made a choice for him and he took it without protest.

    LSEs tell people how to do things, SLEs tell people what to do. So if an LSE tells an IEI how/why (Te) to choose (which only implies the what i.e. Si), the IEI might do the wrong thing. When an SLE tells an EII what (Se) to do (which implies the how = Ti), the EII probably does it the wrong way.

    You see, even though the what of things is close to the how of things, there is a subtle difference which can cause major issues.

    Just an example of how Soionics rulez!
    Last edited by consentingadult; 05-25-2019 at 09:47 AM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Exactly right! I think I told this anecdote before, but I'll repeat it here: I was working the eveing shift occasionally in the restaurant of an Amsterdam university. Each night one of the professors, probably ILI (although IEI is not out of the question either), was wandering around in indicision about what to eat. I discussed his behavior with the regular chefs, who told me he was doing that every day. It turned out that they always explained to him what was available, but not what he should get. So next time he passed my counter, I basically made a choice for him and he took it without protest.

    LSEs tell people how to do things, SLEs tell people what to do. So if an LSE tells an IEI how/why (Te) to choose (which only implies the what i.e. Si), the IEI might do the wrong thing. When an SLE tells an EII what (Se) to do (which implies the how = Ti), the EII probably does it the wrong way.

    You see, even though the what of things is close to the how of things, there is a subtle difference which can cause major issues.

    Just an example of how Soionics rulez!
    I “liked” this post, but it is also “constructive”. Very good insight into their respective behaviors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Exactly right! I think I told this anecdote before, but I'll repeat it here: I was working the eveing shift occasionally in the restaurant of an Amsterdam university. Each night one of the professors, probably ILI (although IEI is not out of the question either), was wandering around in indicision about what to eat. I discussed his behavior with the regular chefs, who told me he was doing that every day. It turned out that they always explained to him what was available, but not what he should get. So next time he passed my counter, I basically made a choice for him and he took it without protest.

    LSEs tell people how to do things, SLEs tell people what to do. So if an LSE tells an IEI how/why (Te) to choose (which only implies the what i.e. Si), the IEI might do the wrong thing. When an SLE tells an EII what (Se) to do (which implies the how = Ti), the EII probably does it the wrong way.

    You see, even though the what of things is close to the how of things, there is a subtle difference which can cause major issues.

    Just an example of how Soionics rulez!
    this is possibly true, though, I even know IEIs who say things like: Don't tell me what to do!, I think they actually push to get Se from sensors, this is getting strong, domineering and authoritarian responses so this would be an excuse to obey. Its not just what and how, I think they need the partner expressing/imposing their will forcefully so they won't feel like they are a piece of cake or smth. Like they need someone who's "strong" enough to control them and things around, so they can enjoy and get some peace of mind. They literally seek for a fight so they can get some Se from ppl. Otherwise they just feel frustrated, anxious, pointless etc. This is the kind of information they need to work, they literally need to know that their partner is also not a piece of cake, not someone to whom IEI can treat and use as they please, that the partner is perfectly fine about using force (even physical) to make their way.

    This dynamic is invariably tiring and draining for Delta STs who are oriented towards parenting/childlike attitudes, not the aggressor/victim ones from beta, which in delta are perceived not just as painful, but undoubtedly wicked and perverted. Luckily, the IEI will get finally and after MANY revolts, a crust of bread of Se in the form of contempt.

    But if this is SEI/LSE then is more like LSE Si Te supervising and SEI wanting to get rid of it or smth. Plus, SEIs can be quite stubborn about Si stuff and with their Fe they have this need (that they see as a right) to have and express their opinion so they can be taken into account (Alpha complex).
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 05-26-2019 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Adding

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    the general LSE IEI conflict is that they are both dynamic and think of different ways of finding the truth

    the LSE is more likely to ask, plainly, what someone wants
    the IEI assumes that anything other than an obvious zeal or reaction is a lie, so they will provoke attempting to see such over time, until they believe or decide "how" someone is

    IDK if they are now seen as other types now, but I would say re the OP:

    The LSE should just be straight forward about wants and be ok with choosing them. It can take some practice to just choose something and not have 'caregiver guilt' about how it affects other people. (Some Si creatives are not as guilted though ofc). But sometimes LSE are too considerate about choices when it comes to others wants when the better thing to do is actually assert something and then if necessary show flexibility later - esp with people LSE 'care for' this can be a challenge. It's about confidence in selection.

    IEI are particular about "confidence" also, and tend to get uneasy when they feel someone is approaching them without it. It's just the path to confidence for a SLE and LSE may look different or feel different, even if ultimately they are pretty similar. The IEI could simply be aware of this and realize their emotional provocations are more a matter of their own reactions or uneasiness than actually trying to listen to or understand the LSE.

    When people trust their own uneasy reactions more than listening to the other person sincerely, there will not be a lot of easy interaction. It is often gained through other means than certain intellectual reasoning when there is socionics 'mismatches'. But it can be done. It's harder to do when there is no common ground though.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I was just watching Children of Paradise and the interactions between Baptiste and his father comes off as an almost stereotypical IEI-LSE conflict.

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