Id Adoption

[FreelancePoliceman]

Perhaps someone would be willing to help me with these thoughts I've been shuffling around.

My current self-typing of LII seems generally accurate enough, but, as always, I hold a few reservations. Mostly I've been thinking about the vulnerable function; Se PoLR I'm not sure is entirely accurate. Se doesn't, I think, make me feel particularly vulnerable or insecure -- maybe to an extent (I doubt it's a valued function, but if so it's fairly weak), but not to the extent that it's described, surely. Where I feel most vulnerable, rather, is Fe. When I was a child, Fe would make me tense up; I irrationally hated it beyond what was reasonable. Pleasantries, small talk, and such made my feelings alternate between wanting to run away, wanting to die immediately, and wishing someone would hit the person emanating the Fe with a hammer. As such I developed a strong preference and attraction toward Fi types, who felt safer and more "real".

This should indicate SLI or ILI, but A) neither typing seems to fit (I can explain why, but it would detract from the post to explain why they don't here), and B) My personality when I was a child was quite different than my present one, due to stressful factors I'd rather not talk about. I was consciously aware that my personality was altered, and I thought of it as a defense mechanism to protect my "real" self. Now that I've left my parents' house, I wonder if I adopted the functions in my id block to do this. I did act and feel, I think, fairly similarly as an ILI -- down to the feeling of noticeably weak, half-flickering attempts at Se which ILIs generally emanate. Has anyone heard of anything similar to this; i.e., adoption of id functions when stressed?

But I think it might be possible that I'm wrong, for these reasons. First, when meeting people, I'm quite stiff and come across as being overly formal -- I'm both aware of this, and have been told so many times. I believe this to be because I'm self-conscious regarding the "acceptability" of my presence/action/appearance. Second, people who are very sociable still strike a chord of insecurity somewhere inside my heart -- though the more I think on it, the less I'm convinced this is triggered by Fe itself, since SEEs invoke this often, but perhaps it's still a form of aversion to the domain of Fe? Regardless, I don't tend to feel nearly as strongly against Fe as I did when I was a child, and the sensation is quite different. But in any case, this has a similar cause as the former; the insecurity stems from a fear of not being socially "acceptable"; good enough, in a way. This fear persists even when I dislike or think poorly of the person in question, barring outright hatred. Thirdly, if I'm SLI, I'd relate to seeking Ne/Fi; I tend to feel as if I need more of both in my life. I do tend to quite like ENFPs, and they do feel genuinely refreshing in a way that I don't feel often, so duality's not out of the question. I do feel I'd be bothered by ENFPs' flightiness in a long-term relationship, but what do I know.

Anyway, I feel these problems have to do with my misunderstanding of Socionics, or myself, so I'd appreciate any feedback, including "Get out of your head, jackass; you're clearly just x."

Edit: I don't think I initially made this clear enough: since I left my parents' house, Fe has been bothering me increasingly less. The other day I met an ESE and talked with her some, and was surprised how well I felt and got along with her, since that hasn't been the case in the past.

[Dalek Caan]

When I was a child, Fe would make me tense up; I irrationally hated it beyond what was reasonable. Pleasantries, small talk, and such made my feelings alternate between wanting to run away, wanting to die immediately, and wishing someone would hit the person emanating the Fe with a hammer. As such I developed a strong preference and attraction toward Fi types, who felt safer and more "real".

I can relate. I carpool with somebody that's likely an LSE or ESE and he talks alot about everything from what he ate to what he's done that day and all the stories and jokes and his church and everything he wants to talk about and he's a great person and all that, but inside I just don't really enjoy that. I sometimes wonder what he'd think about me if he knew that often I'll spend days at home working in my garage or building electronics for stuff without any human contact. Superego stuff is tiring.

...
the insecurity stems from a fear of not being socially "acceptable"; good enough, in a way.
...

It's interesting that you put it this way. I think that's why I usually like SEEs; they don't at all seem to give a shit about that. But with Fe valuers, it seems to be much more important to them. You sound like you relate a lot more with Fe Polr.

But I don't think Socionics is prescriptive enough to know if a type can adopt their ID and what that would even mean, outside a type change (which isn't against Jungian thought or anything for all the naysayers and such).

[FreelancePoliceman]

I can relate. I carpool with somebody that's likely an LSE or ESE and he talks alot about everything from what he ate to what he's done that day and all the stories and jokes and his church and everything he wants to talk about and he's a great person and all that, but inside I just don't really enjoy that. I sometimes wonder what he'd think about me if he knew that often I'll spend days at home working in my garage or building electronics for stuff without any human contact. Superego stuff is tiring.

Lol, I relate, though I think LSEs aren't quite as likely to just keep talking in the way of ESEs.

It's interesting that you put it this way. I think that's why I usually like SEEs; they don't at all seem to give a shit about that. But with Fe valuers, it seems to be much more important to them. You sound like you relate a lot more with Fe Polr.

Right; I'm unsure whether it's Fe PoLR or something else, possibly non-type-related, that I feel.

But I don't think Socionics is prescriptive enough to know if a type can adopt their ID and what that would even mean, outside a type change (which isn't against Jungian thought or anything for all the naysayers and such).

It wouldn't be a type change so much as feeling pressured to act like another type before reverting to a 'real' one.

Thanks for replying.

[Number 9 large]

i mean you have a avatar pic of an old nerdy guy with glasses pretty sure ur LII now

[Sol]

to get a help - give your video

[FreelancePoliceman]

i mean you have a avatar pic of an old nerdy guy with glasses pretty sure ur LII now

Lol. He's Eugene Debs, and I'm fairly sure he was SEE.

[Number 9 large]

Lol. He's Eugene Debs, and I'm fairly sure he was SEE.

yeah 100% SEE

[Luk]

(ILIs & LIIs especially, please correct if I'm wrong about this stuff. I made it up. )

No way for anyone else to know this better than you, but none of what you said contradicts you being LII. Some of it supports it.

LII value genuine Fe, but because it's weak they won't often know if it's genuine or if it serves another agenda. People using Fe to manipulate a situation can be seen as annoying/abusive by an LII. I don't know why that is, since it doesn't follow from the basic concepts. It's just something I read about and I personally agree with it.

I remember Gulenko saying that in Model G, the LII (or its equivalent) can appear like an IEE when they feel comfortable with their surroundings. Ne + Fe. It's a phase though. Unlike IEE, the LII will still subject their big decisions to a logical order. IEE are more whimsical about the big things and their solutions won't always make logical sense.

A LII will sometimes wish for various things without intending to follow through (Ne creative, Se PoLR), but they won't appreciate it when someone presses them into action. "If you say want money, you should do this and work hard to be promoted into upper management. What are you waiting for? Do you want money or not?" Their purpose is not to seize their goals and push them through, so such suggestions always fall flat. "I do want money and I don't. It's not so simple." There's always a little insecurity when they admit to themselves that they're not working hard for their goals, but they know why they don't do it: it goes against most of their other functions. It especially goes against their creative Ne/demonstrative Ni, which discourages irreversible steps. Se looks like taking irreversible steps if you're not good at it. But because LII are not consciously managing Ni (demonstrative), they are less confident about taking decisive action when no action is needed. Such action requires a strong grip on Ni or to disregard Ni's advice. LII have neither a strong grip on Ni (they don't direct it; it just happens), nor are they happy to disregard it and risk disasters. They take the irreversible risks that they must, and no more. They still take risks when they know they can go back, because it's fun to explore.

When others get excited about their ideas, that excitement transfers to the LII. (Suggestive Fe) Just seeing someone get excited about something valid (Ti & Ni) will make a LII feel excited and more energised.

Being provided a stable environment (Activating Si) will relieve the LII and spur them to action.

The id block is used often, but it's not methodical.

Using my ignoring (Te) feels to me like a workout: I personally feel a sense of accomplishment when I manage/organise a complex task with many moving parts ("I can still do it"), but I don't want to do it too often. It's "tiring" even if I know how to do it. When others try to use Te, I will be more likely to advise them than to do it myself. "Let them have their fun with some efficiency. Oh. No not that. Here."

As for the demonstraive (Ni), I use it all the time. I prefer to be able to live in the moment, but every time the course of events changes, for an instant I imagine where it will end up. And then it goes silent again. I trust it fully, so if it tells me I will die at the conclusion (or lose my house), I will avoid that course of events and not question it. If it tells me I might lose $100 on a silly idea that might not work, well, I value Ne (Creative) so I'll still take the risk for some fun.


From what I can imagine, ILI will not try out pointless ideas for fun if they are unlikely to go anywhere. (Ne ignoring, unlike LII's Te ignoring) Being pushed to achieve their goals I think is a lot less unpleasant to ILI. But that's because ILI's desires aren't as whimsical. A LII will explore many wants, so it makes no sense to drop everything for the desires they happen to voice. When an ILI wants something, I don't think it's just some fancy. So decisive action towards their goals is welcome.