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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    Default german LII with a question

    Hi, my name is Thomas and I'm a new member here. I have been studying socionics for 4 years now and finally decided to make an account. over the last three years, I have been translating socionics sources to build the first german website on the theory. it's called

    soziotypen.de

    the theory has had a huge impact on my life and I'm investing a lot of time studying it. my question would be if there's a german subforum on this site so I can share my website there and discuss it. the site is uncommercial and similar to wikisocion. it's more of an encyclopedia for people who want to know more about socionics. would be cool to find other socionics enthusiasts from germany.

    I also spend a lot of time typing other people. I've build a galery with hundreds of examples that is accesible to non german speaker, too. maybe you want to take a look.

    http://soziotypen.de/bekannte-persoenlichkeiten/

    anyway, I'm curious about this website and I hope I will find new information here!

    Cheers,

    Thomas

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    WinnieW's Avatar
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    Hello Thomas,
    welcome aboard to this board. I'm from Germany, either. My typing skills are probably not the best of all member of this board.

    There are already some threads about famous people form Germany.
    E.g. https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...che-Soziotypen
    and a few other threads I'm too lazy to search for right now.

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    sup

    From what I know, there is no German subforum. However, there are German members and so you can start a thread with ideas from your website or something. I don't think it'd be breaking the rules to promote your site, but you may want to consult a moderator like @Aylen first.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    cool, I will look into it. I'm always open for suggestions regarding the types of different people, btw

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    your gallery is kinda crappy, and I only looked at two subsections

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    what do you dislike about it?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Hi Thomas,
    I wish your resource was available when I was traveling. I met German EII at the airport and I couldn’t explain to her what types were
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    hello Thomas, congratulastion for the site, I really like how you made it look.. I have a question for you, which is your "fav" socionist? or the one you think has created the most accurate descriptions of the types?

    my problem is that I can't relate to any description 100%, and the more authors I read, the less they seem to agree... for example I think Reinin gives some good descriptions, among the best, but I don't agree with his dichotomies, they even proved to be wrong in real application... just a thought. : ) would like to know what you think!

    (Wikisocion composites seem so far the most accurate, I'm glad you've used them too)

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    what do you dislike about it?
    lack of accuracy. it seems as if you've just compiled a list of people using common opinions, instead of properly VI-ing or typing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Hi Thomas,
    I wish your resource was available when I was traveling. I met German EII at the airport and I couldn’t explain to her what types were
    I think this is the main reason why I've build this site. there are sadly barely any sources on socionics here in germany.

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    hello Thomas, congratulastion for the site, I really like how you made it look.. I have a question for you, which is your "fav" socionist? or the one you think has created the most accurate descriptions of the types?

    my problem is that I can't relate to any description 100%, and the more authors I read, the less they seem to agree... for example I think Reinin gives some good descriptions, among the best, but I don't agree with his dichotomies, they even proved to be wrong in real application... just a thought. : ) would like to know what you think!

    (Wikisocion composites seem so far the most accurate, I'm glad you've used them too)
    thank you! I think Victor Gulenko is my main source for socionics. I also use his DCNH-System. I guess my preference comes from the fact I have the same sociotype. the wikisocion descriptions are absolutely amazing, probably the best ones I've read so far. they seem to have more of an "ethical" way to describe types which I like. I usually use these descriptions to introduce people to socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    lack of accuracy. it seems as if you've just compiled a list of people using common opinions, instead of properly VI-ing or typing them.
    what does VI-ing mean? visual identification? I don't use it much while typing people (but I'm aware that there are patterns), I mostly focus on a person's biography. I've discussed many typings with two of my friends (who are LII and ILE). I also had skype conversations with Jack from world socionics society. on my website, I mention that the typings are my subjective opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    what does VI-ing mean? visual identification? I don't use it much while typing people (but I'm aware that there are patterns), I mostly focus on a person's biography. I've discussed many typings with two of my friends (who are LII and ILE). I also had skype conversations with Jack from world socionics society. on my website, I mention that the typings are my subjective opinions.
    That's good to know. The rest of your website looks very nice, I don't have anything else to criticize (except maybe that you should add a DCNH theory section). It's a pity you don't have a good gallery..

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    That's good to know. The rest of your website looks very nice, I don't have anything else to criticize (except maybe that you should add a DCNH theory section). It's a pity you don't have a good gallery..
    I have a section for DCNH subtypes in my theory section

    http://soziotypen.de/theorie/ (point 7)

    http://soziotypen.de/theorie/system-der-dcnh-subtypen/

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Hi & welcome. What is your dcnh subtype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Hi & welcome. What is your dcnh subtype?
    Hi

    I'm a creative subtype. my father is a normalising LII, my brother a harmonising LII and my best friend a dominant LII. it's interesting to see the differences. I try to keep the subtype theory to a minimum on my website but I want to research more in the following years.
    Last edited by soundofconfusion; 05-15-2019 at 08:02 AM.

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    Hi too.
    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    ...my father is a normalising LII, my brother a harmonising LII and my best friend a dominant LII...
    So many members of the same type in a family. I guess that accumulation of the same type among close relatives has a rather low probabilty, statistically.

    In contrast, I'm the only LII in my family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    if there's a german subforum on this site so I can share my website there and discuss it
    you may discuss in English

    > I've build a gallery with hundreds of examples

    the most useful is to show opinions which you got purely yourself. types of people which you typed without knowing external opinions before. or at least with minumum of them
    also it's better to type only modern people which have videos

    try to make bloggers list. many german bloggers are not known widely, but can be typed by noverbal without language understanding. that would be your own opinions, without conformism factor

    The best English source about Socionics, at least for beginners is that book by Filatova. It's what you may translate to German with the best use. Or to translate her Russian books, in case someone would know both languages good enough. She's excellent as 1st books writer.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Hi too.

    So many members of the same type in a family. I guess that accumulation of the same type among close relatives has a rather low probabilty, statistically.

    In contrast, I'm the only LII in my family.
    I have a stepfamily with 3 other siblings. my brother has the same father. all of my other family members are sensing types and my mother is a harmonizing SEI. my parents are married for 27 years now. I would really like to know how genetics influence the type of a child but I guess it will take a very long time till we figure that out. I've noticed that couples from the same quadra often get children that belong to their own quadra but it's not always the case, maybe the relationships that your grandparents and other family members had also play a role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    you may discuss in English

    > I've build a gallery with hundreds of examples

    the most useful is to show opinions which you got purely yourself. types of people which you typed without knowing external opinions before. or at least with minumum of them
    also it's better to type only modern people which have videos

    try to make bloggers list. many german bloggers are not known widely, but can be typed by noverbal without language understanding. that would be your own opinions, without conformism factor

    The best English source about Socionics, at least for beginners is that book by Filatova. It's what you may translate to German with the best use. Or to translate her Russian books, in case someone would know both languages good enough. She's excellent as 1st books writer.

    I simply just typed people that I found interesting. it takes a lot of time for me to type someone since I need to read a lot about them to be very sure. since a lot of people in my gallery are famous, it's inevitable that they already got typed by someone else. I observed that other people's typings often don't match my own, though, so I don't pay much attention to external opinions. my gallery has around 320 examples. I would say 20-30% of my examples haven't been typed before, or at least I couldn't find them anywhere. people will never agree with you 100%, but I only added examples to the gallery when I was very sure of their type.

    the gallery is also not the main part of my website. the most important factor for me is that it serves as an introduction for people who are new to the theory. I just mentioned it here because it's accessible to non german speakers.
    Last edited by soundofconfusion; 05-16-2019 at 05:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    all of my other family members are sensing types and my mother is a harmonizing SEI.
    Jepp, same for me. I type my mother as SEI too, but I'm not sure of her DCNH subtype.

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    Welcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I simply just typed people that I found interesting.
    You saw existing lists and hence the opinions about types of many ones in your list before. There is a significant problem of influence.

    > it takes a lot of time for me to type someone since I need to read a lot about them to be very sure

    To type without nonverbal impressions has big chance of mistakes, as unlike texts - type related nonverbal is much harder to distort, while what you read about famouses is hardly filtered. Anyone typed without video is very doubtful.

    Videobloggers list would be interesting to see from you. This may need to use nonverbal as primary method.
    To understand nonverbal typing you may try my IR test and after to try to feel the types traits of examples.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    I guess we just have a diffferent approach to typing then. I think reading the biography is enough to type someone if there's enough information.

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    Hi - you may want to try to get in touch with Peter Bartl over Facebook.

    Seems like many of your typings were taken from other sources. Many of those I agree with.

    But, I'd say Kępiński is IEI rather than LII.

    Whitney Houston - more like Beta NF than ESE
    Neil deGrasse Tyson - ILE instead of ESE
    David Foster Wallace - EIE, not ILE
    Hegel - probably Ni lead rather than EIE
    Dostoyevsky is traditionally typed as EII
    Michael Jackson and Marilyn Monroe - probably IEI instead of EIE
    etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Neil deGrasse Tyson - ILE instead of ESE
    Yeah, Neil has a very skilled , he appears ESE at the first glance, but his suggestive function is in no way

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Hi - you may want to try to get in touch with Peter Bartl over Facebook.

    Seems like many of your typings were taken from other sources. Many of those I agree with.

    But, I'd say Kępiński is IEI rather than LII.

    Whitney Houston - more like Beta NF than ESE
    Neil deGrasse Tyson - ILE instead of ESE
    David Foster Wallace - EIE, not ILE
    Hegel - probably Ni lead rather than EIE
    Dostoyevsky is traditionally typed as EII
    Michael Jackson and Marilyn Monroe - probably IEI instead of EIE
    etc
    I was in contact with Jack from WSS for a while and he mentioned to me that it would be a good idea to get in contact with Peter Bartl but I didn't want to create a facebook account because I value privacy a lot. I think Jack and Peter Bartl follow a different approach to socionics anyway. I pretty much follow Gulenko's school of humanitarian socionics now, while Jack focuses a lot on Model A and is very critical of Gulenko.

    I had a long discussion with Jack about Monroe, Obama and Macron because he thinks they are all IEI while I think they are extroverts. we didn't come to agreement here but I do personally think that all three of them are extroverts.

    "David Foster Wallace - EIE, not ILE"

    have you read Infinite Jest? at the end of the book DFW dedicates hundreds of pages to the explanation of terminology in a very visible Te way (to the point where it kind of hinders the flow of the book) . I've spoken with a couple of ILE about this and they mention that they a want information to be "out there", that everything is precisely explained. I'm very sure DFW is an ILE.

    Dostoyevsky's typing as EII actually surprised me when I got introduced to socionics. I've read all of his books and the fact that he had a gambling problem didn't strike me as EII trait but more as Se valueing. Gulenko typed him and Robespierre as EIE and I agree with him. I disagree with some of Gulenko's typings too, though. for example, he types Nikola Tesla as ILE and Elon Musk as LSI. I think both are ILI. regarding Neil deGrasse Tyson, there's an interview with him and Ray Kurzweil that might be interesting to watch. Kurzweil is an ILE

    https://youtu.be/PrZdAL_2LoU

    I think ESE fits him best.
    Last edited by soundofconfusion; 05-19-2019 at 05:33 PM.

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    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    regarding my typing process: I really just picked people that interested me. dunno if other people influenced my typing decisions, except for maybe gulenko. The typings took place over the course of 5 months and I had many discussions with different people over them. I find that there are rarely reliable sources on types on the internet because many people have different opinions, so I can't really say that I got them from other sources

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    In the theory, Ne is a function that bets on the things they believe in, since it's related to the potential of the objects. Then there are all these socionics thinkers who develop all sort of nitpicky theories to categorize behaviors and, imo, that's a source of great confusion.

    (I doubt Gulenko has a clear idea of what EIIs mean, proof is his delta database, and his EIIs category are almost empty)

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I think ESE fits him best.
    Here is a video of Neil where he shows more of a NT personality.



    I don't think is his PoLR based on the video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    In the theory, Ne is a function that bets on the things they believe in, since it's related to the potential of the objects. Then there are all these socionics thinkers who develop all sort of nitpicky theories to categorize behaviors and, imo, that's a source of great confusion.

    (I doubt Gulenko has a clear idea of what EIIs mean, proof is his delta database, and his EIIs category are almost empty)
    yeah it's kind of surprising that he has almost no delta examples, but I personally think that it's the hardest quadra to type, since they are so undemonstrative (especially EII). Germany is a delta society, so it was a little bit easier for me to find examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post

    Whitney Houston - more like Beta NF than ESE
    I've read some more about her and I agree with you. I will remove her from my list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I've read some more about her and I agree with you. I will remove her from my list.
    ok

    You do use video material too, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    ok

    You do use video material too, right?
    yes, I use any sources I can find. I don't have a specific way of typing, though. I'm searching for information until I come to a sufficient conclusion.

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