Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: For what is worth intuition?

  1. #1
    Ragdoll Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    0-D ISTp sx/sp
    Posts
    2,641
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default For what is worth intuition?

    Serious question... Intuitives are able to see hidden potential of stuff (Ne) and how stuff is going to develop in the future (Ni)... I think most of this process happens automatically and subconsciously. The question is...if they are able to see this kind of stuff, why a lot or most seem not able to do something about it? Is it for lack of Sensing? I think that often a lot of the "problems" I have are fault of me not being able to forecast and see stuff through Ne/Ni. But then I see N ppl and often they seem unable to do something with the "knowledge" they get from their insights. Often they just get stressed out or simply discouraged. So, I'd like to ask intuitives if they feel like their intuition helps them in some practical way (I mean if they have been able to use their insights to get some tangible benefit).

    I think together N and S compliment each other ideally and would get worthy results if working together, but often also I see ppl don't listen to each other so instead of compliment each other they just clash (probably due ego, unhealthiness, lack of respect and miscommunication and misundestanding -different elements-). Do you think there's a solution? Realistically and not romantically, do you think there's a solution?

  2. #2
    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Logical supermacy torturing So(u)ls
    TIM
    Ne-ILE-C 7 ELFV?
    Posts
    4,282
    Mentioned
    181 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    So unhealthy S peeps get this very very weird drift from the immediate data where interpolation and extrapolation is seriously skewed.
    I get this very weird drift just by riding the function of doom or just being able to be excited over something non material... even obsessive. Basically leads to giving up or rejecting everything related to a present moment.

    So some people gain a balance. For example normalizng ILE subtypes seem to have gotten a balance in something at least their activity stuff (like running mindlessly somewhere) same goes with my SEE-N sister who is not seemingly impulsive (although has diagnosed ADHD) and seems to reconsider things a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

  3. #3
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    326
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Free form thoughts > Intuitive snobbery is so unbearable on the internet (a place of refuge) because in the real world, intuitives are still largely "freaks" and "weirdos" to varying extents and degrees, which makes sense if we're approximately 25% of the population (by some estimates). I'm ridiculously outnumbered and surrounded by folks I conflict with or who're trying to supervise the fuck outta me on a daily basis; most of my life has been spent barreling through/pushing back on that in some way. Something that could help would be some sort of public acknowledgement that there is a specific name for those who perceive reality through another lens and that perception, in and of itself, is just as helpful and valuable towards human advancement (as it has always been) as other more sensory based perception. Maybe then, instead of sensors saying shit like "just be normal, please," (lol) they might begin to say, "ah, I see, you're one of those 'intuitives' [or whatever classifying descriptor]...ok, well let's use you for this then."

  4. #4

    Default

    The question is...if they are able to see this kind of stuff, why a lot or most seem not able to do something about it? Is it for lack of Sensing?
    This is my guess on what accounts for failures. Insights don't easily "pan out" due to external resistance, internal inertia, and the time + energy cost of translating what you see in your mind to what others see with their eyes. Ne types good at grasping the internal properties and potential of objects aren't as good as Si types at evalauting how objects dynamically relate and adjust to their spatial environment. Ni types good at predicting how objects change across time aren't as good as Se types as perceiving the "imediate, static qualities of objects".

    Do you think there's a solution? Realistically and not romantically, do you think there's a solution?
    A two-step solution to combat ego and unhealthiness is 1) realize and accept one's strengths and weaknesses through contemplation and discussion with oneself and others around him/her; 2) develop humility and appreciation for others: each individual has his/her own gifts and growth edges that should be used and worked on.

  5. #5
    Alomoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    TIM
    LIE ENTj
    Posts
    480
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    Serious question... Intuitives are able to see hidden potential of stuff (Ne) and how stuff is going to develop in the future (Ni)... I think most of this process happens automatically and subconsciously. The question is...if they are able to see this kind of stuff, why a lot or most seem not able to do something about it? Is it for lack of Sensing? I think that often a lot of the "problems" I have are fault of me not being able to forecast and see stuff through Ne/Ni. But then I see N ppl and often they seem unable to do something with the "knowledge" they get from their insights. Often they just get stressed out or simply discouraged. So, I'd like to ask intuitives if they feel like their intuition helps them in some practical way (I mean if they have been able to use their insights to get some tangible benefit).

    I think together N and S compliment each other ideally and would get worthy results if working together, but often also I see ppl don't listen to each other so instead of compliment each other they just clash (probably due ego, unhealthiness, lack of respect and miscommunication and misundestanding -different elements-). Do you think there's a solution? Realistically and not romantically, do you think there's a solution?
    I like to say I'm blind, but I'm not deaf. And it's not in the physical meanings, this is esoteric BS.

    Intuition helps me make funny jokes at the right time, and also suddenly pull out the answer to my code problems (CS major) from the infinite void of possible answers. Also allows me to make good music.

    Sadly, for every good pick, there's a number x of horrendous bad picks. I haven't done statistical analysis on success rate, cause I don't have the info on it, but, I did somehow pull number one on the stock market game for 1 day. Then I got really scared when I started losing money, and made bad deals. Why I have yet to do the stock market today, even though I'd probably do okay short term, but long term, I'd even out as information changed, if I didn't make mistakes like panic on day 2 when the market goes through a micro crunch.

    Good news is with concrete logical frameworks and effort, I can fix everything and get less wrong answers.
    Figured it out. LIE. I'm extraverted, which is incredibly counter intuitive for a person who doesn't tend to go out much. Don't know how often I'll be on, but don't expect me to respond often. Only option I'm willing to debate is Si vs Ni right now. Mission accomplished.

  6. #6
    Ragdoll Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    0-D ISTp sx/sp
    Posts
    2,641
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by echoesandmirrors View Post


    A two-step solution to combat ego and unhealthiness is 1) realize and accept one's strengths and weaknesses through contemplation and discussion with oneself and others around him/her; 2) develop humility and appreciation for others: each individual has his/her own gifts and growth edges that should be used and worked on.
    Ok, the question was more like how N and S can benefit each other practically. If x is unhealthy well, its kinda obvious that getting healthier would improve stuff, hehe, but that's a pretty evident answer and is not practical in daily matters since one can't go around improving healthiness in ppl. I mean, ideally yes, realistically you have to work with ppl how they are and no one is perfect so ego (or communication etc) often makes ppl unaware of how others can improve them or the situation.

  7. #7

    Default

    A mutually beneficial exchange would be for S types to help N types to more deeply soak in and appreciate S experiences and to bring insights to fruition and for N types to help S types to see the value of implications, insights, and possibilities. For example, my ISFj friend was considering what classes to take and extracurricular activities to engage in for the upcoming academic year. I helped her to think through the implications and pros + cons of each of her choices. She helped me to be more self-assured, unyielding, and present-minded and to see the value of paying attention to and caring for others' immediate, practical needs: this is one way to build and deepen trust and affection.
    Last edited by echoesandmirrors; 05-12-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #8
    ooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    TIM
    eyy
    Posts
    2,704
    Mentioned
    198 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    this question is making me feel uberly self-conscious

    btw, hmm... N/S is one of the most important dichotomies with T/F. very very simply what N does is to see beyond the mere "here and now", what S does is instead being focused on "here and now", according to all the socionics variables you want to add, N + S together can achieve that balance and bring purpose, meaning, big ideas and realization all together. N without S is all fluff, S without N is a bit alienated.

  9. #9
    Chakram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    283
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    The future is largely unpredictable no matter a persons "type," there are so many variables that play into any single event unfolding that it is impossible to know for certain. I think it's more a group or multiple groups of people where intuitives could provide future possibilities, ideas, and potential outcomes that can be acted upon by others in order to progress towards a goal or future vision of some sort, adjusting that vision across time as needed. Under these circumstances they could seem like they have some sort of insight.

    The stock market generally seems to me to be a good example of the impossibility of accurate future insight. If intuitives make up x amount of the population, then why isn't x percent of the population rich af (or a larger proportion of x, filtering for people who are simply not interested) if they can accurately predict things? Even mutual fund companies with "experts" actively managing and trying to predict the economy and individual businesses, a large proportion of them will fail and need to close or simply will under-perform the market.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/more-...ls-cant-do-it/
    @Alomoes might find this article interesting. ^

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,148
    Mentioned
    913 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    intuition is one of useful info, one of thinking ways, - for anything. if you take it into account, besides other functions, - you may get better results as use more of info. though strong functions give higher quality, to use weaker ones good is harder but possibly with a training

    you may construct a plan based on concrete logical analysis, but also you may "feel" where are risky places and work them with more efforts. you may feel outcomes of the processes which are not evident, to feel which outcomes are more possibly to be. to use other intuitive ways of making decisions and understanding of the world

    N types have more of conscious attention on imagination and intuitive feelings. better in using them for results

    you may choose what product to buy by logical comparision. also you may use "feelings" to what model to trust more
    this mb useful, but may lead to worse choices also
    anyway, N type will take such impressions more seriously and will use them more for the decisions

    N types better deal with abstractions and imagination, in general. for example, better in mathematics and theoretical researches. better in writing of sci-fi in the sense of new technologies and more complex texts

    etc banal info you may read anywhere
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  11. #11
    WinnieW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    1,254
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    ... Intuitives are able to see hidden potential of stuff (Ne)...
    I guess there is an test from phycologist to estimate the development of Ne especially in logical types.

    Somebody shows you an object and give you the task to mention many use cases for the presented object; in a limited span of time.

    There are some properties of that object to consider, e.g. size, color, weight, elasticity, roughness, brittleness, waterresistence.

    Based on that I use my intution what I can do with that object.
    I estimate:
    Are there cases where I can use it as it is?
    Can I use tools to modify the object for a special use case?

    Intuition is important to solve novel problem cases where all already know solutions would fail.

    ...or like I use to say: Without intuition mankind would still live in Africa as hunter and gatherer.

  12. #12
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,312
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    How types solve this problem is probably up to traits besides intuition that modify intuition....think reinin dichotomies.

    I work better if I am slotting into and changing something existing, kind of like rearranging the wires to get a better result. And I find this to be an immensely valuable skill. Someone else can get the draft down but I will bring the idea to its potential, assuming I have enough knowledge and intuitive understanding to do so. I think this works whether I am improving a sensor-made thing or an intuitive-made thing.

    I have all the wrong traits for drafting: impatient, detailed, unforgiving of lack of attentiveness to things that will bring improvement, can't let other people be right if I feel they don't understand, etcetera. I clash a lot with drafters.
    Last edited by ouronis; 05-12-2019 at 10:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Ragdoll Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    0-D ISTp sx/sp
    Posts
    2,641
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chakram View Post
    The future is largely unpredictable no matter a persons "type," there are so many variables that play into any single event unfolding that it is impossible to know for certain. I think it's more a group or multiple groups of people where intuitives could provide future possibilities, ideas, and potential outcomes that can be acted upon by others in order to progress towards a goal or future vision of some sort, adjusting that vision across time as needed. Under these circumstances they could seem like they have some sort of insight.

    The stock market generally seems to me to be a good example of the impossibility of accurate future insight. If intuitives make up x amount of the population, then why isn't x percent of the population rich af (or a larger proportion of x, filtering for people who are simply not interested) if they can accurately predict things? Even mutual fund companies with "experts" actively managing and trying to predict the economy and individual businesses, a large proportion of them will fail and need to close or simply will under-perform the market.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/more-...ls-cant-do-it/
    @Alomoes might find this article interesting. ^
    yeah, I didn't mean that they can predict future, I meant intuition (Ni) process information and achieve it over time and get certain patterns from that getting them close to likely possibilities, but its different from logic that can also reach conclusions from information and logically explain the process and conclusions, for what I've seen most intuitive process don't know how they got to certain conclusion or how they got certain information, or even how they know, but they are sure that something is going to develop in certain way or that x person or situation is happening etc. For example, Intuitive ethicals are more concerned with emotions or feelings in them and others, I had this IEI-Ni friend who know how I'd react to certain circumstances (and most ppl don't know since Fe PoLR). I know IEEs who evaluate possibilities for success just based in ethical info (how someone or something makes them feel etc), also one LII f friend makes pretty accurate evaluation of people's potential and failures with just observing them once or listening others talk about certain situations, like for example, knowing that someone lacks "leadership" (which was true) and that some other relationship would evolve into suppression of one of the partners, etc. Then, we as STs, don't trust a bunch of that info or just say "You can't be sure about X stuff will happen in X way", so we brush it and continue with what he had. And that's also part of the problem I framed.

    I know this info is useful and I see the value of it in counseling for example, but at the same time I see that even being good at N, such ppl often can't see pretty evident stuff or don't know how to use what they know in a positive way to get some benefit from it -to them and others- (my LII friend has got some benefit though, for example at work, but not in romance for example and was utterly bad at taking care of her health so her Si was low and intuition didn't worked good in there). This is why I say, that, in ideal circumstances, if N and S would cooperate together there would be complimentarily and mutual benefit, but it rarely happens like this. Often ppl don't "trust" other's opinion enough, so ppl (both N and S) end up doing stuff in their own way, failing or partially benefiting, misadjusting and misjudging each others. Then, I see that, in practice, stuff such as determination, optimism and daily work is more fruitful than S/N interactions (and no offense intended and not saying that N/S interactions are fruitless in romance or friendship). I see the value of the information that intuition brings access to (in the correct hands), but I see that most of such info is better when brought through teaching and learning than from, for example, daily interactions since often, exchange of info from N ppl to S ppl and viseversa (especially mixed up with F and T) just ends up in power struggles or clashing.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 05-13-2019 at 05:36 AM.

  14. #14
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Maizistan
    TIM
    LII(?)
    Posts
    237
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    To echo @Alomoes ' post, "intuition" isn't magical. Like sensation, it's an attunement to a certain "way of being", for lack of descriptive ability. It's not a fully passive function which does nothing but receive input (and neither is S), but it isn't an "ability" that bestows insight, which I think is a misconception picked up from American popular culture; e.g. A Beautiful Mind or movies that show "intuitive" types suddenly making huge insights. It's just that while S prefers to focus on what's actually there, N prefers to focus on ideas; possibilities of what might be there. Maturity and experience makes both types become better trained in their respective preferred functions, but it's no guarantee that an Ni type's ideas about the future actually come to pass, or...whatever the equivalent is for Ne; I can't think of an example. Might get back to that.

    I can't speak for Ni types, but it's difficult to imagine any concrete benefit I've gotten from Ne that isn't my own amusement or pleasure. I suppose in general it helps make mental leaps, which I guess might help me academically or otherwise intellectually, but really, many functions (Si particularly, off the top of my head) are at least equally well-suited to such matters, and N isn't more "intellectual" than S -- just different. Personally, it's my favorite function and the one I most consciously "value" (in the traditional meaning of the word); to me it provides a feeling of vitality or connection to life.

    Now that I think about it though, Ne feels almost similar to a drug in that it compels the user to seek mental stimulation, which provides almost a high. So in that regard, I think it's made me more curious, and more inclined to read and study different authors and subjects.
    Cattle die; kinsmen die;
    Thyself too soon will die;
    One thing, I ween, shall never die:
    Fair fame for one who has earned.

    Cattle die; kinsmen die;
    Thyself too soon must die;
    One thing, I ween, shall never die:
    The doom over each one’s head.


  15. #15
    Chakram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    283
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    yeah, I didn't mean that they can predict future, I meant intuition (Ni) process information and achieve it over time and get certain patterns from that getting them close to likely possibilities, but its different from logic that can also reach conclusions from information and logically explain the process and conclusions, for what I've seen most intuitive process don't know how they got to certain conclusion or how they got certain information, or even how they know, but they are sure that something is going to develop in certain way or that x person or situation is happening etc. For example, Intuitive ethicals are more concerned with emotions or feelings in them and others, I had this IEI-Ni friend who know how I'd react to certain circumstances (and most ppl don't know since Fe PoLR). I know IEEs who evaluate possibilities for success just based in ethical info (how someone or something makes them feel etc), also one LII f friend makes pretty accurate evaluation of people's potential and failures with just observing them once or listening others talk about certain situations, like for example, knowing that someone lacks "leadership" (which was true) and that some other relationship would evolve into suppression of one of the partners, etc. Then, we as STs, don't trust a bunch of that info or just say "You can't be sure about X stuff will happen in X way", so we brush it and continue with what he had. And that's also part of the problem I framed.

    I know this info is useful and I see the value of it in counseling for example, but at the same time I see that even being good at N, such ppl often can't see pretty evident stuff or don't know how to use what they know in a positive way to get some benefit from it -to them and others- (my LII friend has got some benefit though, for example at work, but not in romance for example and was utterly bad at taking care of her health so her Si was low and intuition didn't worked good in there). This is why I say, that, in ideal circumstances, if N and S would cooperate together there would be complimentarily and mutual benefit, but it rarely happens like this. Often ppl don't "trust" other's opinion enough, so ppl (both N and S) end up doing stuff in their own way, failing or partially benefiting, misadjusting and misjudging each others. Then, I see that, in practice, stuff such as determination, optimism and daily work is more fruitful than S/N interactions (and no offense intended and not saying that N/S interactions are fruitless in romance or friendship). I see the value of the information that intuition brings access to (in the correct hands), but I see that most of such info is better when brought through teaching and learning than from, for example, daily interactions since often, exchange of info from N ppl to S ppl and viseversa (especially mixed up with F and T) just ends up in power struggles or clashing.
    I had focused on the first paragraph in your original post and almost completely skipped the second one, my mistake.

    There does seem to be a mistrust between parties both N/S and F/T which you have described well. I don't think there is an actual solution that could be implemented to fix this problem as a whole unfortunately. On a small scale, becoming an expert within a field or when making certain decisions and having an excellent track record will of course generate more trust within people whatever your methods. That's the only way I can think of right now, a results oriented approach, because that is the thing that really draws attention or makes people think that the way you are working is more likely to be correct than others.

    Of course we could always make some large signs that have doomsday riddled themes about how acceptance of intuition and sensing are required if you want to survive the incoming apocalypse, and stand around in large cities preaching Jung.

  16. #16

    Default

    Being able to trace how and why one reached a certain conclusion and to convince others of the applicability + validity of one's conclusions comes as one grows in his/her capacity to consider, evaluate, and use information from different sources and interpersonal skills (clearly and respectfully communicating with others, giving others the benefit of the doubt, solidifying trust and respect) regardless of one's type. Ultimately, the issue is understanding that different people value and use different types of information. What information one should give more weight to depends on the circumstance, but that doesn't mean that certain types of information should be completely discarded.

  17. #17
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,727
    Mentioned
    191 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    Serious question... Intuitives are able to see hidden potential of stuff (Ne) and how stuff is going to develop in the future (Ni)... I think most of this process happens automatically and subconsciously. The question is...if they are able to see this kind of stuff, why a lot or most seem not able to do something about it? Is it for lack of Sensing? I think that often a lot of the "problems" I have are fault of me not being able to forecast and see stuff through Ne/Ni. But then I see N ppl and often they seem unable to do something with the "knowledge" they get from their insights. Often they just get stressed out or simply discouraged. So, I'd like to ask intuitives if they feel like their intuition helps them in some practical way (I mean if they have been able to use their insights to get some tangible benefit).

    I think together N and S compliment each other ideally and would get worthy results if working together, but often also I see ppl don't listen to each other so instead of compliment each other they just clash (probably due ego, unhealthiness, lack of respect and miscommunication and misundestanding -different elements-). Do you think there's a solution? Realistically and not romantically, do you think there's a solution?
    Intuition is helpful because you can foresee what bad things will happen if you don't make changes. However, I agree that weak sensing is a big part of the reason on why intuitives still struggle despite having a good grasp of what will happen in the future. The solution is partly in that intuitives and sensors should help each other so intuitives give their intuitive insight to sensors so they can prepare for coming catastrophes and sensors can give their sensing insight to intuitives so they can put their intuition to good use by actually doing something about it and initiating the changes they want.

    Last, but not least developing your sensing as an intuitive and developing your intuition as a sensor can be highly beneficial. We should develop our strongest functions to reach our full potential, but developing our weakest functions is also crucial to reaching our full potential as well. If an intuitive develops their sensing and a sensor develops their intuition, they will become more well rounded and be better prepared to deal with life's challenges. Like the saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch as both intuitives and sensors have unique challenges that exist because of their weaknesses.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  18. #18

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,238
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My question is this: Why would someone who thinks that he will be successful at doing something, wouldn't do it?

    My guess is that people who don't put their thoughts into "action" are the people who think that they won't be successful at it. Maybe they're imagining mostly negative outcomes.

    Maybe people with more imagination can imagine more negative outcomes. If you don't have a lot of imagination, then you might not care very much.

    So you can easily "test" this: Try imagining mostly positive outcomes. Would that make you more likely to put your thoughts into action? If you're hesitant, do you notice yourself imagining negative outcomes?

  19. #19

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,605
    Mentioned
    261 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    It doesn't give tangible benefit inasmuch as it helps me avoid stuff that is harmful. Which that is the benefit itself. I more easily avoid/evade situations that get sensors hurt. I also can't accomplish tangible things well unless I am aligned with the more 'spiritual/romantic' side of me or whatever.

    I'm simply not very tangible-y motivated. What I mean by that is doing sensor-y things or earning lots of cash or resources would not appeal to me personally. I only need enough to get by and not be totally miserable but I'm not going to push myself in this area. It would make other people happier, and people would treat me a bit better because of it but at the end of the day it wouldn't make me happy. I am honestly much more motivated about simply feeling better/more relief/more at peace about a deep and pressing internal philosophical conundrum. lol I get how that can be annoying cuz to women especially its like 'shut the fuck up and just slap me with your cock' as women are like stereotypically really involved in the earthly/tangible realms of life and the realistic gritty ness of it all but then I go back to my saying about how feces are real, it doesn't mean I'm going to smear them on my face.

  20. #20
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,384
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's worth for nothing, because intuition in general is potential, sensing is the "worth" in things.

    Anyway, as a rule, complementary information needs some time to "sink in". It's easier to learn from identicals than from duals or activity, and it's generally also less painful.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  21. #21
    Ragdoll Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    0-D ISTp sx/sp
    Posts
    2,641
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    It doesn't give tangible benefit inasmuch as it helps me avoid stuff that is harmful. Which that is the benefit itself. I more easily avoid/evade situations that get sensors hurt. I also can't accomplish tangible things well unless I am aligned with the more 'spiritual/romantic' side of me or whatever.

    I'm simply not very tangible-y motivated. What I mean by that is doing sensor-y things or earning lots of cash or resources would not appeal to me personally. I only need enough to get by and not be totally miserable but I'm not going to push myself in this area. It would make other people happier, and people would treat me a bit better because of it but at the end of the day it wouldn't make me happy. I am honestly much more motivated about simply feeling better/more relief/more at peace about a deep and pressing internal philosophical conundrum. lol I get how that can be annoying cuz to women especially its like 'shut the fuck up and just slap me with your cock' as women are like stereotypically really involved in the earthly/tangible realms of life and the realistic gritty ness of it all but then I go back to my saying about how feces are real, it doesn't mean I'm going to smear them on my face.
    Getting lots of cash or doing sensory things is not what I meant by getting some benefit. There are spiritual, sentimental, psychological benefits too for example. So this is your own reading about the issue. For the rest, I don't think most women are interested in anything of what you said, mb some in the overly materialistic US culture (some circles?) yeah, sure. But I don't think women who are into that are more than men who are into that. At least not in my experience. I see you generalizing a lot over women almost as if you have a overly negative bizarre image of most them which is really odd. You seem to make all random conversations about male vs female.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,605
    Mentioned
    261 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Blackberry

    Then why did you specifically say TANGIBLE benefit as opposed to simply 'benefit', I could only go by the logistics of what you posted. It wasn't my reading into the issue, I was going by what you asked for and wanted.

    Fair point about my women comment though. I went over the line there, probably. I'm sorry.
    Last edited by BandD; 05-14-2019 at 02:59 AM.

  23. #23
    Ragdoll Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    0-D ISTp sx/sp
    Posts
    2,641
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    @Blackberry

    Then why did you specifically say TANGIBLE benefit as opposed to simply 'benefit', I could only go by the logistics of what you posted. It wasn't my reading into the issue, I was going by what you asked for and wanted.

    tangible
    real and not imaginary; able to be shown,touched, or experienced

    I meant tangible as something clear and evident, which doesnt means necessarily money to me. Then, even if the problem was the word and the definition, you were far from that with all the bizarre bs you said. And then you even criticize Adam's view of relationships. hm.

  24. #24
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,087
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Simple, "intuition" is a misleading label for this classification of observations :

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/soc_pref_io.html

    a.k.a. I/O

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,359
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    People described as Ni do, it is just more of a slow and steady approach and appear to others as not being proactive. The end goals are just different. Ne people are actually quite proactive and engaged in the outside world. They may not be great at handling the details, but they get a lot of shit done.

    This brings me to an interesting question. Why is it people can be warned exactly what will happen and they choose to ignore it anyways? Thinking of the overwhelming evidence of anthropogenic global warming here. There are a lot of credible people warning of the coming difficulties and what we can do to thwart them. It seems the sensory people can't look beyond a very short time period and ignore it for personal, political reasons. Of course, this is mostly a Fucktard U.S.A. problem.

  26. #26
    Chakram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    283
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nertle View Post
    This brings me to an interesting question. Why is it people can be warned exactly what will happen and they choose to ignore it anyways? Thinking of the overwhelming evidence of anthropogenic global warming here. There are a lot of credible people warning of the coming difficulties and what we can do to thwart them. It seems the sensory people can't look beyond a very short time period and ignore it for personal, political reasons. Of course, this is mostly a Fucktard U.S.A. problem.
    What kinds of things are you doing to "thwart" global warming on a personal level? Have you stopped driving your car and started using an extremely small amount of electricity to prevent your own personal level of pollution? The large scale solution to prevent global warming is a hard thing to achieve simply because of the amount of moving parts that need to be changed out. Which by the way, they are slowly being changed on many fronts, even in the U.S.

    This is not a sensing vs intuition problem, and you are an idiot.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,359
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chakram View Post
    What kinds of things are you doing to "thwart" global warming on a personal level? Have you stopped driving your car and started using an extremely small amount of electricity to prevent your own personal level of pollution? The large scale solution to prevent global warming is a hard thing to achieve simply because of the amount of moving parts that need to be changed out. Which by the way, they are slowly being changed on many fronts, even in the U.S.

    This is not a sensing vs intuition problem, and you are an idiot.
    Thank you for such a calm, rational, mature, and elucidating commentary.

  28. #28
    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,012
    Mentioned
    281 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Intuition is helpful because you can foresee what bad things will happen if you don't make changes. However, I agree that weak sensing is a big part of the reason on why intuitives still struggle despite having a good grasp of what will happen in the future. The solution is partly in that intuitives and sensors should help each other so intuitives give their intuitive insight to sensors so they can prepare for coming catastrophes and sensors can give their sensing insight to intuitives so they can put their intuition to good use by actually doing something about it and initiating the changes they want.

    Last, but not least developing your sensing as an intuitive and developing your intuition as a sensor can be highly beneficial. We should develop our strongest functions to reach our full potential, but developing our weakest functions is also crucial to reaching our full potential as well. If an intuitive develops their sensing and a sensor develops their intuition, they will become more well rounded and be better prepared to deal with life's challenges. Like the saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch as both intuitives and sensors have unique challenges that exist because of their weaknesses.
    ^

    Specifically this is an issue of weak Se. Of course if you don't use Se at all you won't get anything done (sometimes an issue with Ni leading types). But if you don't use Ni at all (as Se leads sometimes do) then you'll constantly be acting recklessly and probably get yourself killed or in jail in short order. They're both essential to living life successfully.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •