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Thread: People raised by family in opposite quadra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post


    me too movement has nothing to do with christianity since its a feminist movement and they reject christianity. Plus, all those movements about "rights" is pure mass manipulation and have been planned by others since time ago. The Vitruvian dude in the economist magazine has me too in the chest.


    If you know the Georgia Guidestones (set in 1980), they have 10 commandments written in stone, they say as this:
    1. MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500.000.000
    IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
    2. GUIDE REPRODUCTION WISELY —
    IMPROVING FITNESS AND DIVERSITY
    etc

    So its a massive plan of depopulation. And its pretty obvious. I don't even get why ppl still blaming christianity when its all except christian. And feminism is all except a female movement. Its pure manipulation.




    Spoilering this too because it seems to get pretty off topic:


    I do think that Metoo shows that we have an Se-devaluing culture, propably due to Delta and Alpha dominance in the cultural and Structural sphere.

    Depopulation does not seem to be the plan, if it was we could just get rid of Africans, i think it's really just the guild ridden Brainwashing that we have.
    Guilt has always been a means of control, television replaced church and now we have this neomarxist culture that tells us that everybody is equal and weaker people have just been oppressed into being unequal and that's why the stronger people have to be ashamed, sabotaged and replaced and/or mixed with the weaker people.
    Maybe there is a lot of hurt feelings and revenge plans for centuries of envy and persecution and envy on the other side of the hierarchy of abilities mixed into it.

    And there is a lot of (modern) Christianity mixed in it, 'don't fight back, turn the other cheek' and the church was the last big institution that controlled people via guilt, they have it implemented in their system from the very start with Eve who tricked Adam into eating the apple so they got kicked out of paradise.
    It's nothing new, but it has lost it's regulation mechanism in form of a centralised church that would make exceptions and lead the followers to war against outside threats.
    -
    I still don't like to entertain an idea of a global depopulation plan that centralised and unbeatable, it does not match reality with it's complexity and turns into defeatism.
    Even if we had a centralised power structure that was as mean hearted and organized to coordinate such a thing there still would be power struggles in the structure itself and if it was too sociopathic to care about common folk there would also not be the kind of empathy and values inside of the structure that would make cooperation and functionality possible.

    Even if there was such a big evil that is coordinating all of this, it happens in the heads of normal people, they are the ones that think they are doing good by eradicating everything that has ever brought us civilisation and beauty from earth, and that's where we can still defuse it.
    Even if there was a big plan, if the basic bitch does not get their instagram likes for the virtual signalling her orbiter won't shelter the danger to get a peek at her nude breasts;
    If the Wife does realise that rape hurts and is not some kind of soul purification for the 'sins' of their forefathers her husband won't vote for the wrong people, and will stand to his true feelings and believes in public.
    And vice versa, if you as an individual become strong, project this outside and show others that living with pride and dignity is not just possible but even gives you benefits, people will adapt this behaviour.
    When we liberate the spirits of the people there even could be a big evil that wants to fuck things up for us badly, it would not have the human tools to do so any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    Spoilering this too because it seems to get pretty off topic:


    I do think that Metoo shows that we have an Se-devaluing culture, propably due to Delta and Alpha dominance in the cultural and Structural sphere.

    Depopulation does not seem to be the plan, if it was we could just get rid of Africans, i think it's really just the guild ridden Brainwashing that we have.
    Guilt has always been a means of control, television replaced church and now we have this neomarxist culture that tells us that everybody is equal and weaker people have just been oppressed into being unequal and that's why the stronger people have to be ashamed, sabotaged and replaced and/or mixed with the weaker people.
    Maybe there is a lot of hurt feelings and revenge plans for centuries of envy and persecution and envy on the other side of the hierarchy of abilities mixed into it.

    And there is a lot of (modern) Christianity mixed in it, 'don't fight back, turn the other cheek' and the church was the last big institution that controlled people via guilt, they have it implemented in their system from the very start with Eve who tricked Adam into eating the apple so they got kicked out of paradise.
    It's nothing new, but it has lost it's regulation mechanism in form of a centralised church that would make exceptions and lead the followers to war against outside threats.
    -
    I still don't like to entertain an idea of a global depopulation plan that centralised and unbeatable, it does not match reality with it's complexity and turns into defeatism.
    Even if we had a centralised power structure that was as mean hearted and organized to coordinate such a thing there still would be power struggles in the structure itself and if it was too sociopathic to care about common folk there would also not be the kind of empathy and values inside of the structure that would make cooperation and functionality possible.

    Even if there was such a big evil that is coordinating all of this, it happens in the heads of normal people, they are the ones that think they are doing good by eradicating everything that has ever brought us civilisation and beauty from earth, and that's where we can still defuse it.
    Even if there was a big plan, if the basic bitch does not get their instagram likes for the virtual signalling her orbiter won't shelter the danger to get a peek at her nude breasts;
    If the Wife does realise that rape hurts and is not some kind of soul purification for the 'sins' of their forefathers her husband won't vote for the wrong people, and will stand to his true feelings and believes in public.
    And vice versa, if you as an individual become strong, project this outside and show others that living with pride and dignity is not just possible but even gives you benefits, people will adapt this behaviour.
    When we liberate the spirits of the people there even could be a big evil that wants to fuck things up for us badly, it would not have the human tools to do so any more.



    ok, I don't think quadra values are the "evil" in society. Saying that Christianity is Delta and Marxism is beta (for example) or something, as seems to not match historical reality at all. I talk about X movement as a fake creation or mass manipulation because I've seen more profs of it than the opposite. I'm not demonizing hierarchy or powerful/rich ppl or quadra values.I'm speaking about what some of ppl have actually and literally said, and that's even written in stone. Nothing more. If someone wants to keep a biased view of reality just based in their own interpretations of culture, that's ok for me, but there's a lot of proofs out there.
    As for what you were saying about the catholic church you mention as "christianity" has nothing of delta values, also "guilt" is not delta. I know ppl from all the other quadras who works a lot in it. In the same way, I doubt that public executions, mysticism, lavish constructions and tons of liturgy are delta values. Then, you are speaking about church in the middle ages, I'm talking about what's happening now in our reality. So, in this same way, backlashing christianity is a trend as you can see with movements as feminism and media.

    Being said all of that I'm out of this derail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    Thank you very much, what i see is that Se and maybe masculinity in general is being pathologized, if you don't sit still and obey what the authorities tell you they will say that you have ADHD and put you under medication.

    I think our whole Culture is so strongly delta and alpha dominated that many people are told to be ashamed of their aggressive tendencies and that they should suppress them.
    You can also see it with all of this #Metoo stuff where Se ego sexuality even gets criminalized.
    Maybe it's Christianity with their other cheek or denazification which is translated into some kind of catharsic decolonisation for non axis countries.
    From early on boys are told that aggression, force, violence and even masculinity as a whole is bad, they don't get any kind of healthy relation to Se behaviour in real-life so they get it sublimated and mostly paired with shallow materialism and moral decay in rap music, at least that's my impression.
    Its gotten to the point where all Se is demonized, even on this forum, where people can't even have a conversation about what it is at the level of definition. People are stuck on "grab em by the pussy" and that is about as far as people want to understand it. As far as the masculinity issue is concerned it actually is a real up and coming issue in society. I think it would be good to balance back out along with some healthy feminism, see Paglia's version for it, because I think her's is the most healthy and realistic.

    As far as ADD is concerned I'm on the fence about it..because I grew up with a parent and a brother who have ADHD BAD, like mood control growing up with a nightmare, he got kicked out of schools for being triggered, but EVENTUALLY and with lots of hard ship, he found his way as an adult. He drives B-Trains, married a molecular biologist, and plays and owns about a 100 board games and 5000 magic cards or something. Major dork but smart as hell. Parent went into the civil services and fire rescue, which from what I understand has a ton of ADD people because they are able to quickly change gears in reality.

    I have a bit of ADD but my will power was astronomical growing up and I sat beside creeks and painfully learned to master the art of focus. Mine was more the female version as they say, the more introverted kind.

    I think there is a distinction between Ne ADD and Se ADD and Si ADD and Te and so on.

    Ne ADD is well known here on the forum: rapidly changing topics, catching extroverted intuition in the environment.

    I think what is less talked about it Se ADD. It and Ne 'looks' the same on the surface, if you were to see Se/Ne ADD faces they would look similar: darting eyes- dopamine triggers, twitching, fidgety, ect.

    Se ADD is more sensate object awareness, so much incoming information, including inner sensing info, which is also {object-i-fied} and in our world's lots is going on nowadays. Se ADD is a bit of a super power and it can be overwhelming to other individuals around them. These types of people are powerful in a traditional sense of the word. They are relentless.

    All ADD on the forum is classed under Ne information and I think this is incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post

    I think there is a distinction between Ne ADD and Se ADD and Si ADD and Te and so on.

    Ne ADD is well known here on the forum: rapidly changing topics, catching extroverted intuition in the environment.
    I thought that was the normalcy for IEE when talking in person.

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    We are going to have a couple video clips here and each is going to show Se to a degree.

    In this first you are seeing Se in conjunction with a fight, which is the pro-typical way Se is shown, with some violence.

    Notice how the scene is one giant low action sequence with no camera edits? This is important. Se is STATIC as we know, this means it sees events as discreet, singular events, without edit cuts. Perception of it is like a long camera take. Events and movement fall into the static perception. Awareness moves around to the important parts, while the singular camera vision represents the underlying Static Nature of Se itself.

    Static scene One

    --------{ Walk through the food court. Doors open. Eyes on the walls (some intuitive Ni/Ne symbolism here). Man moves behind, awareness grabs attention. Danger. Car honks and moves off. Minor reaction. Plane in sky. Light from sky. Look up. Circle. Letterings on buildings. Greyness. Walk down the street, sounds of the street. Punks on the platform. Dyed hair. Leather. Bottles. Look look look, move down the stairs, gravity grabs the body and it falls into the pit. Escalator moves down. Awareness. Eyes on the neck. Turn around briefly. Sum up the predator in a split second. Immediate intuitive Se cost analysis, can I defend myself? Two more enter. This is happening. Engage. Hit. Hit. Hit. Push, Toss. Grab. Punch. Hit. Hit. Stab. Look. Look. Look. Radio. Move to it. Pick it up. Listen. Answer. Toss. Move away. Orange station. Empty. }----------

    Static scene One over. Cut take.

    New scene.

    Start over.



    Last edited by Finaplex; 05-04-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    I thought that was the normalcy for IEE when talking in person.
    I don't see Fi version of IEE being this way. And I don't see NE types as ADD, only sometimes and probably waaaay worse when actually having ADD. I don't think ADD is a made up diagnosis, having grown up with it, I can assure, its a real thing. Weather or not its real and natural/normal in a grander time scale going back to our ancestors, and modernity is opposed to it because its challenging to develop normally in this system with ADD, I don't know.

    Giving kids amphetamines though, even though it DOES WORK, still seems challenging. Interventions with a drug to keep a child focused and moods level just seems......wrong on so many levels. Works though, so people don't forget that part.

    I'm seeing it that maybe certain things get cut and pasted in our sacrifices to live inside worlds built on logic and reasoning and boxes in the sky.

    There really is no other good time in a life to learn knowledge then when young and unfortunately the way to do that is to focus on school which is boring and requires sitting inside during the formative years when the body is growing and wants to interact with the environment, millions of years of pressure behind the urge to engage with the environment right now, and now, and now, and now, and now<---ADD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post

    ok, I don't think quadra values are the "evil" in society. Saying that Christianity is Delta and Marxism is beta (for example) or something, as seems to not match historical reality at all. I talk about X movement as a fake creation or mass manipulation because I've seen more profs of it than the opposite. I'm not demonizing hierarchy or powerful/rich ppl or quadra values.I'm speaking about what some of ppl have actually and literally said, and that's even written in stone. Nothing more. If someone wants to keep a biased view of reality just based in their own interpretations of culture, that's ok for me, but there's a lot of proofs out there.
    As for what you were saying about the catholic church you mention as "christianity" has nothing of delta values, also "guilt" is not delta. I know ppl from all the other quadras who works a lot in it. In the same way, I doubt that public executions, mysticism, lavish constructions and tons of liturgy are delta values. Then, you are speaking about church in the middle ages, I'm talking about what's happening now in our reality. So, in this same way, backlashing christianity is a trend as you can see with movements as feminism and media.

    Being said all of that I'm out of this derail.


    I did not mean to label those things to one quadra, i guess all of them have their flaws and downsides as much as they have their upsides.
    I guess Christianity was in the very beginning Beta, and alpha probably too, i guess most religious systems are mostly alpha ideas derived by a beta structure to become spread. Religion is all abut Ti consistency as far as my judgement is right.

    I think there are a lot of different evil plans written down, even i could write a evil plan down and only because it matches with what happens to a big observable part it does not have to be true at it's root or at the invisible parts of it.
    Here we are back at consistent Ti-systems.
    I also want to close this derailment simply with the statement that it was not my intent to label a specific bad in the world as bound to quadra, even though there are a lot of tendencies of movements for their quadra, good evil happens in every quadra.






    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
    Its gotten to the point where all Se is demonized, even on this forum, where people can't even have a conversation about what it is at the level of definition. People are stuck on "grab em by the pussy" and that is about as far as people want to understand it. As far as the masculinity issue is concerned it actually is a real up and coming issue in society. I think it would be good to balance back out along with some healthy feminism, see Paglia's version for it, because I think her's is the most healthy and realistic.

    As far as ADD is concerned I'm on the fence about it..because I grew up with a parent and a brother who have ADHD BAD, like mood control growing up with a nightmare, he got kicked out of schools for being triggered, but EVENTUALLY and with lots of hard ship, he found his way as an adult. He drives B-Trains, married a molecular biologist, and plays and owns about a 100 board games and 5000 magic cards or something. Major dork but smart as hell. Parent went into the civil services and fire rescue, which from what I understand has a ton of ADD people because they are able to quickly change gears in reality.

    I have a bit of ADD but my will power was astronomical growing up and I sat beside creeks and painfully learned to master the art of focus. Mine was more the female version as they say, the more introverted kind.

    I think there is a distinction between Ne ADD and Se ADD and Si ADD and Te and so on.

    Ne ADD is well known here on the forum: rapidly changing topics, catching extroverted intuition in the environment.

    I think what is less talked about it Se ADD. It and Ne 'looks' the same on the surface, if you were to see Se/Ne ADD faces they would look similar: darting eyes- dopamine triggers, twitching, fidgety, ect.

    Se ADD is more sensate object awareness, so much incoming information, including inner sensing info, which is also {object-i-fied} and in our world's lots is going on nowadays. Se ADD is a bit of a super power and it can be overwhelming to other individuals around them. These types of people are powerful in a traditional sense of the word. They are relentless.

    All ADD on the forum is classed under Ne information and I think this is incorrect.
    In my opinion ADHD is mostly a misdiagnosis.
    What you are describing also sounds a lot like high IQ which correlates with strong willpower, fast associative thinking and being critical of authority which can all make a look a lot like someone with adhd.
    Absent mindedness due to strong intuition can give this thing a more add-y touch.

    https://www.nagc.org/resources-publi...ed-individuals
    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/Papers/GiftedProblems.pdf

    Autistic traits such as strong interests as you can see them with your brother are also often a part of giftedness just as much as high sensitivity to sensory stimuli and extremely strong emotions.

    I'm not saying that giftedness is always the reason for an ADD/ADHD misdiagnosis, PTBS due to child abuse and other things also often is.
    Also an environment that fails to cater to completely normal masculine traits and a society where youth grows up fatherless can cause a lot of this thing.
    For me ADHD stays an excuse to drug kids who are put in a distressing and harmful for them environment, since a lot of those drugs are neuroprotective, it may also has it's upside but for me it gave people around me a means to justify their abuse and play 'poor me'.

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    I'm assuming you are under 25 because this is the attitude most young people have about ADHD. You were not around in the 1980s and 1990s when awareness for the disorder was up and coming.

    They were diagnosed as well, so it wasn't a case of I done think they are ADHD yas sir I do.

    They are gifted though so no doubts there about that.

    Its hard for me to comment about the environment not being masculine enough where I am from because there was plenty of opportunities in my world with a Dad who was around -- just barely long enough before we aged out and his career took off---with several brothers so I wasn't pussified by society. Pussified has to do with the ease and convenience of the modern world. As simplex and I discussed, there are no more challenges and therefore no more adventure.

    The world is over run by Si and Ne types, yes. Se types always have a feel about them: like they belong in another Century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    tbh, I've seen other LIEs experiencing romantic problems and I don't think all of them are related to parental figures. I think the configuration of LIE is not particularly great for romance (in general). I just think (1DFi and 1DSi) give LIE some plasticity in relationships, this along with Te (practicality) and Ni (forecasting) complete the master piece. I think ILE and LII can have similar problems.
    I agree that my problems with romance are not entirely due to being raised out of quadra. All that did was to exclude duals from my list of possibles for a long time.

    I completely agree that LIE's are not great for romance. I'm not romantic, and I don't know a single LIE who is. This bothers most women, I think. I know it bothered the LSI whom I was seeing. I'm not sure it bothers ESI's. I don't think it bothered my SLI ex-wife, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

    I also only know two LIE's out of about eighteen who are in a dual marriage. The others are either single or are married to someone they should not have married.

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    You are right about your assumption with my age.
    My alternatives to the giftedness thing were not really addressed at your case, i think high IQ alone is often more than enough to make someone look like he has ADHD, especially because of the stigma attached to and therefore lack of information about the phenomenon.

    I'm also talking more about the environment outside, school for example would love every child to have low energy, make flower chains with their buddies and never ever show anything like aggression. When you are not able to act out your high energy level and what you are biologically wired for and therefore fascinated by (playing soldiers, wrestling, fighting) you still need a outlet for this kind of stuff so it often manifests itself in challenging the teacher and environment as a whole.

    Don't worry for the last part though, i think especially se valuing involutionary types will find the habitat of their life in what we are heading towards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    You are right about your assumption with my age.
    My alternatives to the giftedness thing were not really addressed at your case, i think high IQ alone is often more than enough to make someone look like he has ADHD, especially because of the stigma attached to and therefore lack of information about the phenomenon.

    I'm also talking more about the environment outside, school for example would love every child to have low energy, make flower chains with their buddies and never ever show anything like aggression. When you are not able to act out your high energy level and what you are biologically wired for and therefore fascinated by (playing soldiers, wrestling, fighting) you still need a outlet for this kind of stuff so it often manifests itself in challenging the teacher and environment as a whole.

    Don't worry for the last part though, i think especially se valuing involutionary types will find the habitat of their life in what we are heading towards.

    How does high intelligence describe the hyper active component?

    We had plenty of time to play around, for example the trampoline, sports, skiiing, swimming ect. Still more hyper active and triggered at a hair trigger. So even in a time and place that accepted physical hyperness, it was still at the level of a debilitation.

    I read some hypothesises that describe ADD as a left over from hunter gathering past societies, where in the ADHD helped to rapidly shift focus on prey....the idea seemed psuedo-psycology and I passed over it. I'm not overly concerned with this stuff as I was when younger.

    Absolutely about habitats: thats the one benefit of being an adult, you will gravitate to where you need to be. : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
    How does high intelligence describe the hyper active component?

    We had plenty of time to play around, for example the trampoline, sports, skiiing, swimming ect. Still more hyper active and triggered at a hair trigger. So even in a time and place that accepted physical hyperness, it was still at the level of a debilitation.

    I read some hypothesises that describe ADD as a left over from hunter gathering past societies, where in the ADHD helped to rapidly shift focus on prey....the idea seemed psuedo-psycology and I passed over it. I'm not overly concerned with this stuff as I was when younger.

    Absolutely about habitats: thats the one benefit of being an adult, you will gravitate to where you need to be. : )
    Psychomotoric Overexability is a good explaination for hyperactivity also gifted children are often reported to have higher energy levels in general.

    https://www.verywellfamily.com/dabro...ildren-1449118

    I think the distractability is better explained by a weaker filter for incoming stimuli, which leads to higher information input, higher sensitivity and often too over-stimulation. I think the hunter gatherer thing can be a good explanation for Involutionary evolutionary distinction though; pretty sure ADHD diagnosis is more common in Result types for exactly the same reason.

    The section in the brain that is said to filter stimuli is also often weaker in men which could be part of an explanation for the gender gaps in High IQ, Autism and adhd diagnosis

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    I know one LSE woman rised with IEI farther and EIE mother.
    One time she've said that one of reasons for her marriage was to run away from the family.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I agree that my problems with romance are not entirely due to being raised out of quadra. All that did was to exclude duals from my list of possibles for a long time.

    I completely agree that LIE's are not great for romance. I'm not romantic, and I don't know a single LIE who is. This bothers most women, I think. I know it bothered the LSI whom I was seeing. I'm not sure it bothers ESI's. I don't think it bothered my SLI ex-wife, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

    I also only know two LIE's out of about eighteen who are in a dual marriage. The others are either single or are married to someone they should not have married.
    Did you hate something in particular about your parents that your ex also had/used to do too? Or nothing like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry View Post
    Did you hate something in particular about your parents that your ex also had/used to do too? Or nothing like that?
    @Blackberry, It was the usual problem and solution.

    I could never get my father’s respect or admiration. My SLI ex was identical to my SLI father, but was an improved version of him in the sense that she actually liked me.

    Similarly, her father was a disapproving LSE engineer who ran his own business, and I am an approving LIE who runs his own business. I am just like her father, but I am an improved version who actually likes her.

    Marrying a parent is a very common thing to do. It enables a person to resolve problems from childhood that could not be easily resolved any other way.


    My ex is also an SLI-Te, I think, while my father is an SLI-0, I believe, so my ex really is an improved version of my father in the sense that she is more like a Mirror than a Supervisor. I should add that divorce didn't mean that my ex and I stopped liking and respecting each other. (She just got me a subscription to the NY Times as a wedding anniversary present, I gave her a ride to the Farmer's Market so she could buy some Begonias.) Divorce did mean that we're never going to live together again, I learned that I no longer need my father's approval, and I discovered Duals.

    If she hadn't moved out, I'd still be married to her, living a life that was OK but not great. Her moving out started a cascade of events which broke irrevocably with the past. I don't think we need each other anymore. But that doesn't mean we can't be friends and be nice to each other. We're a lot healthier now, I think. At lease, I feel that I am. I can't speak for her.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-05-2019 at 11:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ..........Marrying a parent is a very common thing to do. It enables a person to resolve problems from childhood that could not be easily resolved any other way.
    I know a well-educated, intelligent woman who left her smooth running, no-conflict, upper-middle class family (husband and kids) for an exact copy of her father, who was an uneducated bully. I could never understand her need to be in such a similar relationship especially when she spent years saying how much she was afraid of her father and hated his behaviour; perhaps she's habituated to an edgy atmosphere where there's potential for violence. However, she does seem to be in the driver's seat because she pays all the bills........
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I know a well-educated, intelligent woman who left her smooth running, no-conflict, upper-middle class family (husband and kids) for an exact copy of her father, who was an uneducated bully. I could never understand her need to be in such a similar relationship especially when she spent years saying how much she was afraid of her father and hated his behaviour; perhaps she's habituated to an edgy atmosphere where there's potential for violence. However, she does seem to be in the driver's seat because she pays all the bills........
    a.k.a. I/O
    @Rebelondeck, you are describing a clear case of unresolved childhood trauma. By paying all the bills, she can finally get control of her "father's" anger and violence. She can dominate him and no longer needs to be afraid of his anger. The psychological term for this is "Identification with the Victor", where kids who were bullied by those in authority tend to grow up to bully those who are smaller than they are, when you might expect them to hate bullying altogether. Which way a person goes probably depends on the health level of the individual and the support that they might or might not get.

    I think my ex and I were fortunate in the sense that we were both merely looking to resolve the fact that one of our parents didn't like us that much. Neither one of us was trying to overcome the problem of violence.
    Well, my mother was violent. But my chances of marrying an LSE like her are zero. I don't want to fix that problem by getting approval from or dominating an improved version of her. I want to erase her from my world.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-05-2019 at 11:57 AM.

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    It wasn't my opposite quadra, but I grew up in a fairly Alpha family (with the exception of my father, who was, I think, an ILI). I felt there was immense pressure to look presentable in public, and act "normal"; i.e. conventional in every way. It was as if any skepticism toward or different viewpoint from my family's shaky consensus with social expectation was taboo. You could be as dysfunctional as you liked at home, but in public you have to maintain perfectly cut grass and hyperbolically mimic the stereotype of a happy bourgeois family. And there was disapproval of voicing any real thoughts or opinions in public, even to their friends. It was suffocating and I felt like I was always pushing the envelope.

    My sister is dating some quite ugly idiot right now, and she and my family are quite pleased because the fellow is from a "respectable" family. I don't think my sister has ever even felt lust or sexual attraction because it isn't presentable in public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    It wasn't my opposite quadra, but I grew up in a fairly Alpha family. I felt there was immense pressure to look presentable in public, and act "normal"; i.e. conventional in every way. It was as if any skepticism toward or different viewpoint from my family's shaky consensus with social expectation was taboo. You could be as dysfunctional as you liked at home, but in public you have to maintain perfectly cut grass and hyperbolically mimic the stereotype of a happy bourgeois family. And there was disapproval of voicing any real thoughts or opinions in public, even to their friends. It was suffocating and I felt like I was always pushing the envelope.

    My sister is dating some quite ugly idiot right now, and she and my family are quite pleased because the fellow is from a "respectable" family. I don't think my sister has ever even felt lust or sexual attraction because it isn't presentable in public.
    How do you define socially presentable? I think EIIs are much more socially presentable compared to alpha NTs. I also don't like to manifest an image that says everything is fine while everything is dysfunctional. I think alpha is associated with freedom of speech and expression, however, I heard that some other forum members also think that alpha SFs are very strict about being socially presentable. I think this is a misconception, if it is not, maybe someone can enlighten me and explain how and why this association is made and how alpha NTs (especially ILE with polr Fi) acts or wants to act socially presentable?

    I think that every IE pair (Fi/Te, Fe/Ti, Se/Ni, Si/Ne) have their own understanding about what is socially acceptable or not. However, I don't think that alpha's (Fe/Ti+Si/Ne) way of doing so is to act normal.

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    Repression or Rebellion
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    How do you define socially presentable? I think EIIs are much more socially presentable compared to alpha NTs. I also don't like to manifest an image that says everything is fine while everything is dysfunctional. I think alpha is associated with freedom of speech and expression, however, I heard that some other forum members also think that alpha SFs are very strict about being socially presentable. I think this is a misconception, if it is not, maybe someone can enlighten me and explain how and why this association is made and how alpha NTs (especially ILE with polr Fi) acts or wants to act socially presentable?

    I think that every IE pair (Fi/Te, Fe/Ti, Se/Ni, Si/Ne) have their own understanding about what is socially acceptable or not. However, I don't think that alpha's (Fe/Ti+Si/Ne) way of doing so is to act normal.
    You're right; EIIs are image-oriented in a different way. Perhaps image-oriented is an F "thing". But the alphas in my family were mostly SF Alphas; maybe LIIs and ILEs aren't the same way. I suppose it was this emphasis on appearing "normal", rather than likable exactly.

    I suppose I'd consider acting socially acceptable to generally mean being formally polite and keeping off other people's toes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    One is in a relatively good situation when type or quadra differences are the only issues; imagine being raised with substance abuse, violence, mental issues, abandonment, racism and or poverty - all of which are not type related and not mentioning the other destructive baggage that people can pick up over their lifetimes.
    Exactly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
    I think there is a distinction between Ne ADD and Se ADD and Si ADD and Te and so on.
    From researcher Russel Barkley's point of view: There is no ADD or other ADHD subtypes. There is only one ADHD (then there are other attentional sounding disorders such as concentration issues).

    And the real deal ADHD sounds Se in a very unfortunate brain.

    Youtube has lots of material from Barkley
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Does the 3w9 typing stem from the same idea?
    Yes, fear not! I have a basic grasp of enneagram

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    I used to refer myself as 7w5 (to prove my point because enneagram looks like blindfolded belief system).
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Believe we're all a very mixed family.
    Figured it out. LIE. I'm extraverted, which is incredibly counter intuitive for a person who doesn't tend to go out much. Don't know how often I'll be on, but don't expect me to respond often. Only option I'm willing to debate is Si vs Ni right now. Mission accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    One is in a relatively good situation when type or quadra differences are the only issues; imagine being raised with substance abuse, violence, mental issues, abandonment, racism and or poverty - all of which are not type related and not mentioning the other destructive baggage that people can pick up over their lifetimes.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Try being born into a family with all of that plus Socionics issues. ^_^'

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    I have a LSI friend whose parents are SEE and IEE. She is convinced that they have always done everything to ruin her life and that since childhood she has had to be the actual parent in the house.

    My brother is ESI and our parents are EIE and SEI. As a teenager about one day out of two he would violently snap and claim that me and my EIE mom were making fun of him or trying to manipulate him. Now he is an adult and he still does this but not just with my mom and I. He recently organized a diner party and he snapped at my EIE sister. He kicked her out of his house in front of her children and of his own children too. He claimed that she was manipulating his guests in an attempt to ruin his evening. I think he has developed a strong distaste for anything Fe valuing.
    Fun fact is that he met a IEE girl at church and got married to her very quickly at the age of only 21 years old. She became the only delta of the family.
    That sounds horrific, and at the same time, it also sounds like one of the most realistic consequences of opposite quadra parents, or close to it. Especially interpreting everything as manipulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkcanary View Post
    I grew up with a single parent ESE mother but she was unhealthy, gave me lots of anxiety, now she is much better. I have not been around too many other Alphas until recently I married my dual who has many Alpha friends.

    Anyway, I'd imagine it to be stifling. I just bought a bike from an ESI today and the process made me feel dead inside. My husband didn't talk to her much which is kinda weird as he is talkative and was just looking around the store, commenting on the products and annoying me, which he always does when I feel suppressed for some reason.
    This is where I think strangler serial killers come from. Their parents' opposing elements stifle them so much that that they seek revenge on others as an adult by strangling them lol. It's a symbolic act that expresses how they felt as kids growing up: strangled, stifled, suppressed. It's terrible but I haven't found a better explanation. This is why Socionics is important. It might help unravel some of the most inexplicable psychopathologies.
    Last edited by Aramas; 06-08-2019 at 10:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    I have a LSI friend whose parents are SEE and IEE. She is convinced that they have always done everything to ruin her life and that since childhood she has had to be the actual parent in the house.

    My brother is ESI and our parents are EIE and SEI. As a teenager about one day out of two he would violently snap and claim that me and my EIE mom were making fun of him or trying to manipulate him. Now he is an adult and he still does this but not just with my mom and I. He recently organized a diner party and he snapped at my EIE sister. He kicked her out of his house in front of her children and of his own children too. He claimed that she was manipulating his guests in an attempt to ruin his evening. I think he has developed a strong distaste for anything Fe valuing.
    Fun fact is that he met a IEE girl at church and got married to her very quickly at the age of only 21 years old. She became the only delta of the family.
    Interesting how he ended up in a Supervision marriage like your parents. I know 2 ESIs with IEEs... it is not pretty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My parents are gamma irrational duals. They love each other. They love their kids. What's there to know?
    I mean my father was SEE. Every time he had to go to the doctor he would much rather me be by his side because I am a thorough person who gets all the information and because of that I can cleverly figure out what to do in an affective manner. I sensed an overwhelming pain in my father during his last two days of life (he has high pain tolerance and usually can not sense his own pain maybe it was Si ignoring). I sensed it and begged to take him to the emergency room where the emergency room doctor came to speak to me in private saying "your father is in critical condition, it is best that we keep him comfortable now." You couldn't believe how hard I had to fight to keep my tears back. I had to because I didn't want to alarm my mom who was with us. They transferred him to a hospital bed and on our way my father pulled me close to him and kissed me on my forehead. It was the last kiss from him. I knew he was saying goodbye and I knew exactly what he would trust me to do which was to take care of everyone. He knew I would do it because all this talk about EII not having strength and will doesn't mean we are not brave and clever and capable to providing for our loved ones. I value a lot of things my father did for me as a parent, a teacher, a guide.

    The only areas where we actually crashed were when my father would cook up a storm for all his social events I hated cleaning and he would leave me no choice but to do the clean up. I am like my dual rather to ourselves and my father just loved socializing. We would have a different group of people over every darn week and I hated it. I was the intellectual kid who had thousands of books and did not want people around. But, my father was a social butterfly. He had to have friends and family and people over all the time. Our communication was almost on a subconscious level too. I couldn't really share my thoughts with him but knew he knew what was going on because he was that perceptive. He loved fashion. My father purchased such nice expensive suits. He looked so good and he would order us to take a shower hahah his senses were so aware. He loved good food, he loved nice clothes, he loved smelling good, and he loved giving us experiences with road trips and socializing with many people. I would wear shoes for 10 years and he would look at them and say "when are you going to get new shoes? when are you going to get a new outfit?" lol I didn't care for material world.

    There are crashes between people of the same quad. It's a lot of factors that determine conflict, even their own upbringing not necessarily exchange of functions.

    My father obviously loved me because at the doctor's office one day he looks at me and said "I wanted 5 daughters my WIFE she ONLY WANT 2"
    Do you think growing up with dual parents contributed to yourself finding and marrying a dual?

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    I don't know about opposite quadra but my dad was SEE, mom ESI, one sister SEE (could be EIE but think SEE more likely), one brother SEE, and another sister IEI. Also have an LSE brother but probably saw him like two or three times growing up since he has different dad and step mom.

    Growing up completely surrounded by feeling types quite annoying to say the least. Everyone's kinda messed up and unhealthy in their own unique way so hard to say how much personality types contribute to shit moments in the past.

    I do have an SLI/LSI uncle (don't remember him well enough to say which it is) and SLE grandfather but besides them all feeling types, everyone, as in my other grandparents, cousins (the one's I know at least), aunts, and uncles. It's very strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calm View Post
    Do you think growing up with dual parents contributed to yourself finding and marrying a dual?
    no not at all. In fact all the people I was dating were Activity and conflict relations. I didn't know the special aspects of duality only that I was just naturally comfortable around my dual cousin. I knew what I was always looking for, someone who liked to start their own business, or had their own interests; someone who was compassionate, who had humanity at the heart of their concern - like helping others when they could, someone who wasn't afraid to show their feelings.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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