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Thread: Jung Fi

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    Default Jung Fi

    How do you think his description differs from
    a. Socionics Fi
    b. Mbti Fi

    Discuss

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    4. The Introverted Feeling Type

    It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others. One distinctly feels the movement of feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, such an event only occurs when the object has in some way too strong an effect. The harmonious feeling atmosphere rules only so long as the object moves upon its own way with a moderate feeling intensity, and makes no attempt to cross the other's path. There is little effort to accompany the real emotions of the object, which tend to be damped and rebuffed, or to put it more aptly, are 'cooled off' by a negative feeling-judgment. Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness. [p. 493]

    One may even be made to feel the superfluousness of one's own existence. In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious, i.e. unless, through the animation of some primordial image, feeling is, as it were, taken captive. In which event such a woman simply feels a momentary laming, invariably producing, in due course, a still more violent resistance, which reaches the object in his most vulnerable spot. The relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and its intemperateness are resolutely proscribed. Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. Such, however, is not always the case, since very often the deficit remains unconscious; whereupon the unconscious feeling-claims gradually produce symptoms which compel a more serious attention.

    A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed. It may possibly make an extravagant irruption, leading to some staggering act of an almost heroic character, to which, however, neither the object nor [p. 494] the subject can find a right relation. To the outer world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this sympathy looks like coldness, for it does nothing visibly, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.

    Such misunderstanding is a characteristic occurrence in the life of this type, and is commonly registered as a most weighty argument against any deeper feeling relation with the object. But the underlying, real object of this feeling is only dimly divined by the normal type. It may possibly express its aim and content in a concealed religiosity anxiously shielded, from profane eyes, or in intimate poetic forms equally safeguarded from surprise; not without a secret ambition to bring about some superiority over the object by such means. Women often express much of it in their children, letting their passionateness flow secretly into them.

    Although in the normal type, the tendency, above alluded to, to overpower or coerce the object once openly and visibly with the thing secretly felt, rarely plays a disturbing role, and never leads to a serious attempt in this direction, some trace of it, none the less, leaks through into the personal effect upon the object, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds the immediate circle under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power is derived from the deeply felt, unconscious images; consciousness, however, readily refers it to the ego, whereupon the influence becomes debased into personal tyranny. But, wherever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of the intensive feeling is also transformed into banal and arrogant ambition, vanity, and [p. 495] petty tyranny. This produces a type of woman most regrettably distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. But this change in the picture leads also to neurosis.

    So long as the ego feels itself housed, as it were, beneath the heights of the unconscious subject, and feeling reveals something higher and mightier than the ego, the type is normal. The unconscious thinking is certainly archaic, yet its reductions may prove extremely helpful in compensating the occasional inclinations to exalt the ego into the subject. But, whenever this does take place by dint of complete suppression of the unconscious reductive thinking-products, the unconscious thinking goes over into opposition and becomes projected into objects. Whereupon the now egocentric subject comes to feel the power and importance of the depreciated object. Consciousness begins to feel 'what others think'. Naturally, others are thinking, all sorts of baseness, scheming evil, and contriving all sorts of plots, secret intrigues, etc. To prevent this, the subject must also begin to carry out preventive intrigues, to suspect and sound others, to make subtle combinations. Assailed by rumours, he must make convulsive efforts to convert, if possible, a threatened inferiority into a superiority. Innumerable secret rivalries develop, and in these embittered struggles not only will no base or evil means be disdained, but even virtues will be misused and tampered with in order to play the trump card. Such a development must lead to exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequelæ.
    1. Same as Fi in Socionics:
    He describes feelings that are inside and not on the surface (visible). One has to guess their feelings in order to know what they are truly feeling. I relate to this a lot; I'm so quiet on the outside that people can hardly guess how I feel; the feelings come out when I protest against an injustice.

    2. Same as Fi in MBTI
    https://www.careerplanner.com/8Cogni...ed-Feeling.cfm
    Because it's an introverted function, it's hard to observe it in people. It's taking place in side the mind where others can't see it.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm


    1. Same as Fi in Socionics:
    He describes feelings that are inside and not on the surface (visible). One has to guess their feelings in order to know what they are truly feeling. I relate to this a lot; I'm so quiet on the outside that people can hardly guess how I feel; the feelings come out when I protest against an injustice.

    2. Same as Fi in MBTI
    https://www.careerplanner.com/8Cogni...ed-Feeling.cfm
    Because it's an introverted function, it's hard to observe it in people. It's taking place in side the mind where others can't see it.
    Ok it does seem to line up with socionics more. It sounds more like INFJ and ISFJ. He called the introverted sensation type 'irrational' and it sounds more like ISxP (to me). Thanks for the link

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    MBTI tests are designed in eight dichotomy system. For instance they have questions for E/I; S/N etc. So if you take an mbti test and score ISFJ you are Fi/Ne not NiSe or whatever functions they describe; their test is not aligned with their functional interpretation of the types. For this reason every mbti test I take I get INFJ even if they say that INFJ are NiFe; I do not relate to NiFe
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    there is core term which is the same - subjective emotional evaluation
    and Jung's expanded functions' interpretations which does not matter much

    "b. Mbti Fi"
    they seems prefer to brainlessly copy Jung's texts about functions and get the expected bs
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    yup. Usually very hard to talk with that sort of predisposition. For example I usually rather beat myself down than take directed sympathy from others. That kind of stuff makes me orient non-objectively towards the world causing internal corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    First of all Jung is largely describing behavior as opposed to information or information metabolism.

    His description of the Fi dominant is as someone who is emotionally cold, doesn't seek to impress or influence others (emotionally), and is "harmonious and incospicuous". The first two things are accurate in socionics, the last part not so much. Harmony is also attributed to feeling in MBTI, but in socionics for example ESIs don't always come across as particularly harmonious or "benevolent." In the latter part he does mention a subtle "domineering influence" and "a type of woman distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty" which could be seen as an unhealthier kind of ESI.

    Even if he was likely describing Fi leadings or maybe mobilizings, he doesn't seem to have gotten to much of the positive focus of Fi according to socionics, including relationships, character, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    there is core term which is the same - subjective emotional evaluation
    and Jung's expanded functions' interpretations which does not matter much

    "b. Mbti Fi"
    they seems prefer to brainlessly copy Jung's texts about functions and get the expected bs
    Because socionics is heresy

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    Fi in socionics and Fi in MBTI comes from Jung, so when it comes to the definitions Jung, MBTI, and Socionics is all one in the same.

    Some Ausra lackeys go out of their way to deny Jung by redefining functions so there's a lot of fake socionics going around.

    Fake Socionics and/or fake socionists typically come in one package: anti-Jung, anti-reinin, anti-VI, sometimes anti-subtypes

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    I collect images of situations and scenes from the past and have feeling attachment to them and when determining the future I react with Ne-that is what could possibly go wrong. That creates fears and reactions. My communication becomes “I worry” and can seem one emotional reaction but if a person tries to understand the images in my mind they will know where these fears come from

    The two posts I made here shows that

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...03#post1333703
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    MBTI tests are designed in eight dichotomy system. For instance they have questions for E/I; S/N etc. So if you take an mbti test and score ISFJ you are Fi/Ne not NiSe or whatever functions they describe; their test is not aligned with their functional interpretation of the types. For this reason every mbti test I take I get INFJ even if they say that INFJ are NiFe; I do not relate to NiFe
    I don't know. I actually relate to the Si description of mbti well. But not the socionics Si as much.

    Introverted sensation is the sensing function that perceives phenomena in such a way as extraverted sensation does above, but in a subjective manner. As Jung notes that all introverted functions focus on the past, Si is said to compare phenomena with past experiences (this has never been said by Jung himself; it is a common internet misconception)[12] and is very detailed in what it detects,[11] thus creating a level of conscientiousness and procedure in their work.[13]It is chiefly concerned with a meticulous cataloging of physical experiences and recalling them when the user perceives similarity in their subjective experiences of current reality. It wants things to be pinned down and concluded, mistrusting novel possibilities which explains the adherence to traditional ways.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungia...sensation_(Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Fi in socionics and Fi in MBTI comes from Jung, so when it comes to the definitions Jung, MBTI, and Socionics is all one in the same.

    Some Ausra lackeys go out of their way to deny Jung by redefining functions so there's a lot of fake socionics going around.

    Fake Socionics and/or fake socionists typically come in one package: anti-Jung, anti-reinin, anti-VI, sometimes anti-subtypes
    Meh. I think I actually relate more to Si-Fe in mbti and Fi-se in socionics.

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    An important aspect of Si is for me the plesantness of (physical) sensations.

    For instance... if you can taste different ingredients of a meal; Si is involved. A person with good Si can tell differences of sensations; e.g. the same kind of a meal tastes the same or different then the last time.

    Want to have a clean, comfortable home is also a sign of valued Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moou View Post
    Meh. I think I actually relate more to Si-Fe in mbti and Fi-se in socionics.
    You wonder why they are different meanings to the same functions?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    You wonder why they are different meanings to the same functions?
    Yes, that's what my impression is at least Maybe it's subjective-people seem to have different interpretations. Especially with mbti, there's no official in depth description of the functions-it seems mostly random people's interpretations of them. But from what I have read in socionics my understanding is Si is about the 5 senses and being absorbed in the environment. However in mbti descriptions it seems more about memory and an internal store of past information which I relate to a bit more. But I made this thread for Fi specifically, because the mb interpretations seem lousy when it comes to Fi, and I don't really have a good understanding of it. Although I relate to it more in socionics since it's about depth of feeling/self centered, and not projecting emotional atmosphere onto others. I don't even understand the myers briggs version of Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moou View Post
    Yes, that's what my impression is at least Maybe it's subjective-people seem to have different interpretations. Especially with mbti, there's no official in depth description of the functions-it seems mostly random people's interpretations of them. But from what I have read in socionics my understanding is Si is about the 5 senses and being absorbed in the environment. However in mbti descriptions it seems more about memory and an internal store of past information which I relate to a bit more. But I made this thread for Fi specifically, because the mb interpretations seem lousy when it comes to Fi, and I don't really have a good understanding of it. Although I relate to it more in socionics since it's about depth of feeling/self centered, and not projecting emotional atmosphere onto others. I don't even understand the myers briggs version of Fi.
    Sounds like someone needs to set the record straight; go back to the roots, and start anew; get both systems to align
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Fi in socionics and MBTI / Classical Jung is considered two different things. Just to know, MBTI is closer to Jung than Socionics when it comes to interpreting functions. Myers and Briggs fully adopted Classical Jung while for Augusta, she defined IME differently than MBTI / Jungian Cognitive functions.

    In MBTI, Fi is considered personal feelings and values, which I considered too vague and ambiguous. However, in Socionics, Fi is considered relational ethics. Fi lead (ESI and EII) would keep their feelings to themselves for the purpose of good relations. This doesn't sound like stereotypical MBTI INFP and ISFP who prefer to express emotions. Hence, some who value MBTI or Jungian Fi actually value Socionics Fe, not Socionics Fi.

    I think if you're from the MBTI community, it is best to unlearn MBTI when learning socionics. It would make things a lot easier. And just because Socionics originated from Jung doesn't make it the same thing.

    Rarely, an MBTI ISFP are ESI in Socionics but a lot of MBTI ISFP are SEI in Socionics

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    Jung functions are all a bit vague, so I think that both systems are portraying valid aspects of what is Fi. Jung says that Introverted Feeling is one of the most difficult to describe (like Ni), nothing of what is within the subject comes out, but a sort of deprecative look, because Fi tends to pass everything through the lens of their inner rational feelings. Rational types are in general less "in the now" than perceptive types, because they scan reality through their rationality, and with Fi, an introverted function, this process is doubled. Jung further describes how the content of Fi is made of images (like Ni and Si) and that the better way to access them and express them is through an artistic outlet (in socionics that's Fe, while MBTI gives that trait to the creative function paired with leading Fi).

    Ni in Jung is the function related to values and an higher moral conduct, whereas both MBTI and Socionics in particular ascribe that trait to Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    Jung functions are all a bit vague, so I think that both systems are portraying valid aspects of what is Fi. Jung says that Introverted Feeling is one of the most difficult to describe (like Ni), nothing of what is within the subject comes out, but a sort of deprecative look, because Fi tends to pass everything through the lens of their inner rational feelings. Rational types are in general less "in the now" than perceptive types, because they scan reality through their rationality, and with Fi, an introverted function, this process is doubled. Jung further describes how the content of Fi is made of images (like Ni and Si) and that the better way to access them and express them is through an artistic outlet (in socionics that's Fe, while MBTI gives that trait to the creative function paired with leading Fi).

    Ni in Jung is the function related to values and an higher moral conduct, whereas both MBTI and Socionics in particular ascribe that trait to Fi.
    I explained how Fi works

    I experience a past event in my relationships like my father, who I love, getting a nasty infection from a brace. This event leaves a scar in me for which I do not react or cry about at the moment

    “INFJ is often wounded and always emotional, however, she turns all her experiences inward; thus these qualities are not always observable from a distance. She sometimes appears as a steady, even cold person, but this impression is illusory. Every event, even those popularly deemed insignificant, leaves in her soul a deep track that survives for a long time.”

    Sometime later someone suggests putting a brace on my daughter. The image jumps in my head but it’s in the form of a feeling Judging “I will not put something that will harm my daughter in her head. I WILL toss that away!” And there the judgements and the feelings
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @BS

    what you describe goes on in the minds of most people who've experienced an upsetting event, it's called survival animal instinct: we learn to fear that which causes harm.

    the image that jumped in your head is nothing more but an instinctual reaction to a past "traumatic" event, it's definitely not a judgement, nor particularly rational. what's better for you kid? to have a cap on her head that you should take care for, or growing up with some malfunctions because of your fears? this is a rational judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    @BS

    what you describe goes on in the minds of most people who've experienced an upsetting event, it's called survival animal instinct: we learn to fear that which causes harm.

    the image that jumped in your head is nothing more but an instinctual reaction to a past "traumatic" event, it's definitely not a judgement, nor particularly rational. what's better for you kid? to have a cap on her head that you should take care for, or growing up with some malfunctions because of your fears? this is a rational judgement.
    What do you think Jung called Fi? Read it! He called it primitive

    She doesn’t have a malfunction where are you getting your information?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    just checked. he didn't call Fi primitive. he says "primitive" of every other function tho...

    https://archive.org/details/Vol06Psy...ypes/page/n493 you can use this for a fast research

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post

    She doesn’t have a malfunction where are you getting your information?
    I said she might develop some... agreeing with your "LSE" hubby here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Our daughter developed a flat head due to a neck condition. It is completely cosmetic and does not affect her brain and development in any way.

    My husband looks at it logically and aesthetically “we will keep her in an air conditioned room, problem solving “but she should try to wear it so that her teeth are not out of alignment in the future
    an abnormal dental posture is not only aesthetic, it has repercussions on the spine and on breathing too. but I'm no doctor so, I'll let you in some experts hands: https://www.technologyinmotion.com/w...head-syndrome/

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    Plot twist: Jung is heresy to socionists.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    I said she might develop some... agreeing with your "LSE" hubby here.



    an abnormal dental posture is not only aesthetic, it has repercussions on the spine and on breathing too. but I'm no doctor so, I'll let you in some experts hands: https://www.technologyinmotion.com/w...head-syndrome/
    Stop playing doctor. My daughter has her own doctor and I’m her parent and I’m the speaking with her doctors not you. You’re so friggin weird. You make conclusions about health that aren’t even there like something can be off with her spine WTF

    Stop communicating with me
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    just checked. he didn't call Fi primitive. he says "primitive" of every other function tho...

    https://archive.org/details/Vol06Psy...ypes/page/n493 you can use this for a fast research
    He says Ti has primitive feeling not Fi. Fi has archaic thinking according to Jung.

    "just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts."

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Recapitulation of Introverted Rational Types

    Both the foregoing types are rational, [Fi and Ti] since they are founded upon reasoning, judging functions. Reasoning judgment is based not merely upon objective, but also upon subjective, data. But the predominance of one or other factor, conditioned by a psychic disposition often existing from early youth, deflects the reasoning function. For a judgment to be really reasonable it should have equal reference to both the objective and the subjective factors, and be able to do justice to both. This, however, would be an ideal case, and would presuppose a uniform development of both extraversion and introversion. But either movement excludes the other, and, so long as this dilemma persists, they cannot possibly exist side by, side, but at the most successively. Under ordinary circumstances, therefore, an ideal reason is impossible. A rational type has always a typical reasonal variation. Thus, the introverted rational types unquestionably have a reasoning judgment, only it is a judgment whose leading note is subjective. The laws of logic are not necessarily deflected, since its onesidedness lies in the premise. The premise is the predominance of the subjective factor existing beneath every conclusion and colouring every judgment. Its superior value as compared with the objective factor is self-evident from the beginning. As already stated, it is not just a question of value bestowed, but of a natural disposition existing before all rational valuation. Hence, to the introvert rational judgment necessarily appears to have many nuances which differentiate it from that of the extravert. Thus, to the introvert, to mention the most general instance, that chain of reasoning which leads to the subjective factor appears rather more reasonable than that which leads to the object. This difference, which in the individual case is practically insignificant, indeed almost unnoticeable, effects unbridgeable oppositions in the gross; these are the more irritating, the less we are aware of the minimal standpoint displacement produced by the psychological premise in the individual case. A capital error regularly creeps in here, for one labours to prove a fallacy in the conclusion, instead of realizing the difference of the psychological premise. Such a realization is a difficult matter for every rational type, since it undermines the apparent, absolute validity of his own principle, and delivers him over to its antithesis, which certainly amounts to a catastrophe.

    Almost more even than the extraverted is the introverted type subject to misunderstanding: not so much because the extravert is a more merciless or critical adversary, than he himself can easily be, but because the style of the epoch in which he himself participates is against him. Not in relation to the extraverted type, but as against our general accidental world-philosophy, he finds himself in the minority, not of course numerically, but from the evidence of his own feeling. In so far as he is a convinced participator in the general style, he undermines his own foundations, since the present style, with its almost exclusive acknowledgment of the visible and the tangible, is opposed to his principle. Because of its invisibility, he is obliged to depreciate the subjective factor, and to force himself to join in the extraverted overvaluation of the object. He himself sets the subjective factor at too low a value, and his feelings of inferiority are his chastisement for this sin. Little wonder, therefore, that it is precisely our epoch, and particularly those movements which are somewhat ahead of the time, that reveal the subjective factor in every kind of exaggerated, crude and grotesque form of expression. I refer to the art of the present day.

    The undervaluation of his own principle makes the introvert egotistical, and forces upon him the psychology of the oppressed. The more egotistical he becomes, the stronger his impression grows that these others, who are apparently able, without qualms, to conform with the present style, are the oppressors against whom he must guard and protect himself. He does not usually perceive that he commits his capital mistake in not depending upon the subjective factor with that same loyalty and devotion with which the extravert follows the object By the undervaluation of his own principle, his penchant towards egoism becomes unavoidable, which, of course, richly deserves the prejudice of the extravert. Were he only to remain true to his own principle, the judgment of 'egoist' would be radically false; for the justification of his attitude would be established by its general efficacy, and all misunderstandings dissipated.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...d_Feeling_Type

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Stop playing doctor. My daughter has her own doctor and I’m her parent and I’m the speaking with her doctors not you. You’re so friggin weird. You make conclusions about health that aren’t even there like something can be off with her spine WTF

    Stop communicating with me
    you started

    I'm not playing doctor, I agreed with your husband (and it was you to say that EIIs can't disagree with LSE, you forgot?). I agree with him because I've been trough dental problems as a kid, I couldn't breathe properly and that was giving me a lot of headaches and night apnea. I had to wear teeth braces for 5 years and everything got fixed. I went through that... js.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Stop playing doctor. My daughter has her own doctor and I’m her parent and I’m the speaking with her doctors not you. You’re so friggin weird. You make conclusions about health that aren’t even there like something can be off with her spine WTF

    Stop communicating with me
    communicate with me instead




    edit: when are u gonna give me a sample of ur boobmilk? i heard its good for ur face

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    omg, I had braces when I was 11-13....regret it so much. I never brushed my teeth then and got 4 cavities in all my bottom molars. Plus I had a deep overbite and they used the class II elastics to fix it, but it felt kind of messed up after and changed my face shape. And my teeth were yellow after with some white marks on them. I trashed my retainers a few years ago and now my teeth are crooked again (not 100% where they were before yet). Total waste of money. They weren't even bad before, it looked cute

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    you started

    I'm not playing doctor, I agreed with your husband (and it was you to say that EIIs can't disagree with LSE, you forgot?). I agree with him because I've been trough dental problems as a kid, I couldn't breathe properly and that was giving me a lot of headaches and night apnea. I had to wear teeth braces for 5 years and everything got fixed. I went through that... js.
    You’re on ignore. You’re high on crack because you have no idea what my husband said or thinks
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    i u 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moou View Post
    omg, I had braces when I was 11-13....regret it so much. I never brushed my teeth then and got 4 cavities in all my bottom molars. Plus I had a deep overbite and they used the class II elastics to fix it, but it felt kind of messed up after and changed my face shape. And my teeth were yellow after with some white marks on them. I trashed my retainers a few years ago and now my teeth are crooked again (not 100% where they were before yet). Total waste of money. They weren't even bad before, it looked cute
    i broke my retainers after the first 6 months... lol, my teeth got back to wherever they were before treatment, but at least my bite got fixed and that helped to correct the main problems (breathing and headaches) I looked to cure in the first place... btw it's true, when you put braces around 13 years old it's a bit useless because your bones are gonna change big time in those years... they used to tell to mums to go to dentists when kids are that young, just to get more money maybe? but it would be better to wait 18-20 (although it's a bit awkward to go around with braces when you're an adult, but who cares!)

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