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Thread: Let's talk about Homophobia + Aristocracy and Democracy

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    @Kim

    I think everybody is gross. I don't really think gay people hold the higher moral ground either at all, but I do think a big part of the 'movement' has been proving the obvious lie that straight people do not have moral authority either. Most discrimination against gays has been done in the 'when people do shitty things in life, they don't think they're not righteous- they think they have the right' thing. If I'm a lustful pedophiliac demon with horns, then my only destiny is to have an anvil fall on my head, right? My only right in life is then to be terminated, because it's the RIGHT thing to do. That's why people who are so concerned they are in the 'right' are often so damn scary.

    The IEE I know that does this, I don't think she does it maliciously either at all so I'm not that offended by it. But you're right, probably not quadra related...

    *hugs Kim*

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    @Kim

    I think everybody is gross. I don't really think gay people hold the higher moral ground either at all, but I do think a big part of the 'movement' has been proving the obvious lie that straight people do not have moral authority either. Most discrimination against gays has been done in the 'when people do shitty things in life, they don't think they're not righteous- they think they have the right' thing. If I'm a lustful pedophiliac demon with horns, then my only destiny is to have an anvil fall on my head, right? My only right in life is then to be terminated, because it's the RIGHT thing to do. That's why people who are so concerned they are in the 'right' are often so damn scary.

    The IEE I know that does this, I don't think she does it maliciously either at all so I'm not that offended by it. But you're right, probably not quadra related...

    *hugs Kim*
    Everybody is kind of gross, but straight people are more gross. And white people. And Cis people. At least those who don't get it.

    I am really trying to be as generous as you are, especially living in a conservative rural area. I don't blame people for
    attitudes that they have because they were never challenged. But I have spent four years having conversations and trying to explain and really, the pervasive lack of basic decency and empathy is so frustrating. How is it not obvious that people who are different don't choose to be? How dense and self-absorbed can you be?

    I really need to get out of here...
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Ooh @Kim have you seen Pose on Netflix? I think you would like it a lot, it's about gay and trans people of color living in the 80s during the heights of the AIDS crisis. I just finished the season.

    I might make a post about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Ooh @Kim have you seen Pose on Netflix? I think you would like it a lot, it's about gay and trans people of color living in the 80s during the heights of the AIDS crisis. I just finished the season.

    I might make a post about it.
    That looks great! Thank you!
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    I don't blame people for
    attitudes that they have because they were never challenged.


    Yeah I grew up in a small shitty rednecky town too. I would ideally like to live somewhere more urban and hip and gay- as cliche as that sounds. Maybe other redneck gay guys would like it here, but... I was happier living a more liberal city.

    I remember complaining about being bullied or harrassed growing up, and it was always my fault for 'being the fag' and not their fault for being assholes. Even many therapists I had tried to spin it like that. I wasn't trying to be their friend enough, or trying to be 'cool' enough. But I was never into guns or doucebag str8 boy rap music. /shrug =D

    But a few months ago, I stalked one of my bully's facebook pages out of curiosity- and he said how guilty he felt and he knew he was a piece of shit, and how his girlfriend 'made him a better person.' I think something probably happened where the hate he had caught up with him. So I think part of him knew what he did was wrong... and it's not just about boys like him, but the authority structures of the world that enable and protect that kind of thing. That is why Trump is so dangerous of course. It's not about Trump, but about how he casts a buff spell on every white redneck str8 moron in a 50,000 mile radius etc.

    I see many rainbow pride flags in my town now, and although it's rednecky and white trash-like - it's also really gay friendly now on top it for the most part. But it all feels too little, too late for me personally- that's why I'm still bitter and why I won't give up the fight either. I needed this humanitarian feel-good crap when I was a bullied, insecure and horribly depressed gay teenager in grade school and high school who didn't want to be gay. I didn't get 'it's okay to be gay' until I was 17- but I needed it the most when I was 13. People have this fear and paranoia bout 'sexualizing' kids that age but the thing is, being gay of course is more than the sex. It's the culture, the lifestyle, the way of life, the attractions.



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    The term "homophobia" is just a made up ad hominem to shame and silence those who do not support homosexuality or the depravities of the LGBT community (even if they don't actually mind homosexuality in and of itself). The left's most used weapon is their use of shame tactics, which puts the Puritans to shame in it's magnitude.

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    Yeah they do it. Its basically a dinner bell for the idealists to come and save them from their stupidity. Funny when the idealists are basically the same way in a more subtle way.

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    I (along with many who believe it is wrong) believe the ACT of homosexuality is wrong; just like the ACT of murder, or the ACT of cheating, or the ACT of lying etc...

    We aren’t saying we hate the PEOPLE, just the ACTION is unacceptable... And just because someone is born with a predisposed tendency makes it right.

    Ex: If I was born with a predisposition to lie it doesn’t mean lying is right.

    Many of you guys don’t understand that disagreement doesn’t necessarily equate to hate/homophobia.

    ^^^^^

    This is Ti type rationalization so I’d imagine betas would be inaccurately labeled as “homophobic” plus the Se would make them more vocal about it vs weaker/undervalued Ti types have a tendency to be more emotional and intolerant of alternative views or speak up against it (like deltas that oppose it stay quiet about it)

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    I (along with many who believe it is wrong) believe the ACT of homosexuality is wrong; just like the ACT of murder, or the ACT of cheating, or the ACT of lying etc...

    We aren’t saying we hate the PEOPLE, just the ACTION is unacceptable... And just because someone is born with a predisposed tendency makes it right.

    Ex: If I was born with a predisposition to lie it doesn’t mean lying is right.

    Many of you guys don’t understand that disagreement doesn’t necessarily equate to hate/homophobia.

    ^^^^^

    This is Ti type rationalization so I’d imagine betas would be inaccurately labeled as “homophobic” plus the Se would make them more vocal about it vs weaker/undervalued Ti types have a tendency to be more emotional and intolerant of alternative views or speak up against it (like deltas that oppose it stay quiet about it)
    Don't worry, you don't account for all betas and thank god for that.

    Spreading the idea that the "ACT" of homosexuality is unacceptable equals to saying that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to be living their life freely according to their sexual orientation.
    This also justifies all kind of repressions against homosexuals. Especially when you compare them to liars, cheaters and even murderers which are considered morally wrong in our society as they evoke distrust and danger. Do you consider homosexuality to be dangerous? Wouldn't that be homophobic?

    It seems that people are scared to be called homophobic but they don't mind actually being homophobic at all.

    Homophobia is way more dangerous for society than homosexuality is. See, people murder other people in the name of the "ACT" of homosexuality being unacceptable. Homosexuals don't seek to oppress anybody. They don't tell you how to live your life, they just want you to let them live theirs. As human being and as part of society they have the right to that.

    Also this victimization of people spreading hate speech is getting tiring. As somebody said (I don't remember who) Free Speech and Democracy isn't about 5 minutes for the Jews and 5 minutes for Hitler. Some ideas aim to persuade a category of the population that they are worth better than another one. That their lifestyle should be the only lifestyle allowed and that anything that is unlike them is wrong. This kind of ideas have lead to the most horrific events in human history. So no, these ideas should not have the same weight as the advocacy for the right of minorities to freely live their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Don't worry, you don't account for all betas and thank god for that.

    Spreading the idea that the "ACT" of homosexuality is unacceptable equals to saying that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to be living their life freely according to their sexual orientation.
    This also justifies all kind of repressions against homosexuals. Especially when you compare them to liars, cheaters and even murderers which are considered morally wrong in our society as they evoke distrust and danger. Do you consider homosexuality to be dangerous? Wouldn't that be homophobic?

    It seems that people are scared to be called homophobic but they don't mind actually being homophobic at all.

    Homophobia is way more dangerous for society than homosexuality is. See, people murder other people in the name of the "ACT" of homosexuality being unacceptable. Homosexuals don't seek to oppress anybody. They don't tell you how to live your life, they just want you to let them live theirs. As human being and as part of society they have the right to that.

    Also this victimization of people spreading hate speech is getting tiring. As somebody said (I don't remember who) Free Speech and Democracy isn't about 5 minutes for the Jews and 5 minutes for Hitler. Some ideas aim to persuade a category of the population that they are worth better than another one. That their lifestyle should be the only lifestyle allowed and that anything that is unlike them is wrong. This kind of ideas have lead to the most horrific events in human history. So no, these ideas should not have the same weight as the advocacy for the right of minorities to freely live their lives.
    Homosexuality has gotten a lot of attention over the past decade because it’s the only sin being redefined as not a sin.

    Imagine if embezzlers, murderers or rapists demanded that they be given protection - not punishment - by law because of their wrongful deeds? Or imagine that any of these people got together and paraded down Main Street in a ‘Murderers Pride Parade’? Most would gasp in amazement. Yet most embrace the notion that because someone engages in sex with a person of the same gender - and then chooses to broadcast that fact - they should be protected, even though God Almighty has forever denounced that practice and called it an abominable sin. Amazing!

    Furthermore,

    Christians (via doctrine) believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. When you force people to go against their beliefs/redefine them... that’s intolerance.

    When you condemn pastors and shut down churches because they don’t believe in homosexuality, that’s intolerance.

    When you force a Christian bakery to cater to a gay wedding, that’s intolerance.

    Outside religious doctrine, we can discuss philosophical/moralistic perspectives on whether it’s harmful if you want... But that'd be OUR opinions against each other. Christians use the Bible and God's word as the standard. With that being said, just because you aren’t directly harming someone doesn’t make it okay; not only that but you are also opening the floodgates and boundaries as to what is acceptable in the future.

    I’m not against freedom; people can do as they choose, we aren’t running around knocking doors down forcing guns to anyone’s heads telling them stop what they are doing lol. There are plenty of bakeries and places for gay people to get married. Just leave innocent people the fuck alone.

    And Ironically as a matter of fact, it’s actually the liberals and LGBT groups that have been trying to force their religion upon society.

    THEY are the ones:

    -Putting their movement on the front page of every major newspaper, in every phase of the entertainment industry, and in the schools.
    -insisting that they have special legal rights.
    -marching up and down the streets demanding that people accept and respect us

    How do you not see the hypocrisy?

    Again,

    Nobody is saying one group of people is better or that one group should be hated, there’s no evidence of that. Sure, there may be stupid people that actually do claim hatred towards homosexuals (similar to KKK groups) but they don’t represent what’s actually being claimed.

    But more often than not,

    This perception exists because people lack the ability to see nuance and think deeply so it’s no wonder this ignorance grows rampant; people just get emotional and have already decided what they want to believe in their minds.
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 06-09-2019 at 10:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Homosexuality has gotten a lot of attention over the past decade because it’s the only sin being redefined as not a sin.

    Imagine if embezzlers, murderers or rapists demanded that they be given protection - not punishment - by law because of their wrongful deeds? Or imagine that any of these people got together and paraded down Main Street in a ‘Murderers Pride Parade’? Most would gasp in amazement. Yet most embrace the notion that because someone engages in sex with a person of the same gender - and then chooses to broadcast that fact - they should be protected, even though God Almighty has forever denounced that practice and called it an abominable sin. Amazing!

    Furthermore,

    Christians (via doctrine) believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. When you force people to go against their beliefs/redefine them... that’s intolerance.

    When you condemn pastors and shut down churches because they don’t believe in homosexuality, that’s intolerance.

    When you force a Christian bakery to cater to a gay wedding, that’s intolerance.

    Outside religious doctrine, we can discuss philosophical/moralistic perspectives on whether it’s harmful if you want... But that'd be OUR opinions against each other. Christians use the Bible and God's word as the standard. With that being said, just because you aren’t directly harming someone doesn’t make it okay; not only that but you are also opening the floodgates and boundaries as to what is acceptable in the future.

    I’m not against freedom; people can do as they choose, we aren’t running around knocking doors down forcing guns to anyone’s heads telling them stop what they are doing lol. There are plenty of bakeries and places for gay people to get married. Just leave innocent people the fuck alone.

    And Ironically as a matter of fact, it’s actually the liberals and LGBT groups that have been trying to force their religion upon society.

    THEY are the ones:

    -Putting their movement on the front page of every major newspaper, in every phase of the entertainment industry, and in the schools.
    -insisting that they have special legal rights.
    -marching up and down the streets demanding that people accept and respect us

    How do you not see the hypocrisy?

    Again,

    Nobody is saying one group of people is better or that one group should be hated, there’s no evidence of that. Sure, there may be stupid people that actually do claim hatred towards homosexuals (similar to KKK groups) but they don’t represent what’s actually being claimed.

    But more often than not,

    This perception exists because people lack the ability to see nuance and think deeply so it’s no wonder this ignorance grows rampant; people just get emotional and have already decided what they want to believe in their minds.
    Again equating homosexuality to murder is literally homophobic. Not that labeling you even matters, but it's just funny to me that you claim not to be homophobic. I'd rather deal with a homophobic person that at least is real about his ideology and aware of the consequences that it has on other people living it his society.

    What would you say if a black person was denied buying a service from a company because of his skin color? What if that baker refused to bake a cake for a black person because according to his ideology, black people shouldn't be allowed to get married? Are you capable of seeing why that would be an issue?

    It's funny that you would mention the KKK. Just yesterday I was watching an interview of a KKK member. He claimed not to understand why his organisation is painted as dangerous and hostile towards black people. Sure there might be a few members who murder black people but they don't represent the ideology of the klan, you know? His argumentation sounds similar to yours. Here is a link to the video if you care: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqGU52odPuE
    It's sad but also very interesting.

    I don't think LGBT people are on the front page of every newspaper but yes they are more visible than they used to be. The goal isn't to force anything; it is advocate for their acceptance in society. Because once again, even if you like to claim the opposite, they are the ones being oppressed. Gay people get beat up, insulted or even murdered because of their sexual orientation. Gay teenagers get kicked out of their household. Gay teenagers are 4 times more likely to commit suicide.

    And again, all these things happen because of the ideology that you are currently advocating for on the internet. Do you really not see why people would call you hateful?

    Below I will leave links to articles that hopefully will help you understand why spreading the idea that homosexuality is "unacceptable" is dangerous. If it still doesn't then I'm sorry but, yes, you are in fact very hateful. Have a blessed day.


    LGBT Teens, Bullying, and Suicide
    https://childmind.org/article/lgbt-t...g-and-suicide/
    "2. A teen who believes his or her sexual feelings are unacceptable to peers may be at risk for suicide.
    Parents, teachers, and all caring adults need to be sensitive to teenagers who exhibit feelings of sadness, worthlessness, hopelessness, anxiety, irritability, rejection, and anger—all symptoms of depression, which is experienced by the majority of teens who attempt or complete suicide. Some parents assume that if they are tolerant of different sexual orientations, their children aren’t affected by the barrage of messages suggesting that it’s abnormal or immoral to be gay. Unfortunately, anti-gay rhetoric has extraordinary, insidious muscle in the cultural landscape, and gay teens are particularly vulnerable. Parents of gay teens are sometimes “the last to know” a problem is brewing."

    The Dangers of Homophobia
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...ers-homophobia

    LGBTQ-inclusive bullying laws associated with fewer teen suicide attempts, study says
    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...1?icid=related

    Recent LGBTQ attacks highlight hate crimes
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/recent-lgb...ry?id=63575407


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    Why is homosexuality such a terrible sin, but adultery isn't? It has become perfectly acceptable to have sex before marriage. Why can't I have sex with a woman? What's the difference with regards to "sin"? Procreation does not count - we don't just have sex to make babies.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Also, the LGBTQ+ community isn't asking for special rights. Just the same rights. They also would like to not die of hate crimes or have to fear coming out. Making themselves visible is a way of normalizing.

    Business owners who refuse to serve certain groups should put up a sign in their windows. I would be curious to see how many "we don't serve Negroes" or "we don't serve non-Americans" we would see. Especially nowadays. And the worst part is, this is not even a unthinkable anymore with this vile administration.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Most straight men with internet access, even the homophobic ones, watch porn these days. There are three possibilities:

    a) you watch another man's penis.

    b) you watch two women having sex.

    c) you watch a scene that has at least one transsexual person.

    Because nobody actually watches soft core masturbation videos.

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    @YXPR thanks from the bottom of my heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Again equating homosexuality to murder is literally homophobic. Not that labeling you even matters, but it's just funny to me that you claim not to be homophobic. I'd rather deal with a homophobic person that at least is real about his ideology and aware of the consequences that it has on other people living it his society.

    What would you say if a black person was denied buying a service from a company because of his skin color? What if that baker refused to bake a cake for a black person because according to his ideology, black people shouldn't be allowed to get married? Are you capable of seeing why that would be an issue?

    It's funny that you would mention the KKK. Just yesterday I was watching an interview of a KKK member. He claimed not to understand why his organisation is painted as dangerous and hostile towards black people. Sure there might be a few members who murder black people but they don't represent the ideology of the klan, you know? His argumentation sounds similar to yours. Here is a link to the video if you care: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqGU52odPuE
    It's sad but also very interesting.

    I don't think LGBT people are on the front page of every newspaper but yes they are more visible than they used to be. The goal isn't to force anything; it is advocate for their acceptance in society. Because once again, even if you like to claim the opposite, they are the ones being oppressed. Gay people get beat up, insulted or even murdered because of their sexual orientation. Gay teenagers get kicked out of their household. Gay teenagers are 4 times more likely to commit suicide.

    And again, all these things happen because of the ideology that you are currently advocating for on the internet. Do you really not see why people would call you hateful?

    Below I will leave links to articles that hopefully will help you understand why spreading the idea that homosexuality is "unacceptable" is dangerous. If it still doesn't then I'm sorry but, yes, you are in fact very hateful. Have a blessed day.


    LGBT Teens, Bullying, and Suicide
    https://childmind.org/article/lgbt-t...g-and-suicide/
    "2. A teen who believes his or her sexual feelings are unacceptable to peers may be at risk for suicide.
    Parents, teachers, and all caring adults need to be sensitive to teenagers who exhibit feelings of sadness, worthlessness, hopelessness, anxiety, irritability, rejection, and anger—all symptoms of depression, which is experienced by the majority of teens who attempt or complete suicide. Some parents assume that if they are tolerant of different sexual orientations, their children aren’t affected by the barrage of messages suggesting that it’s abnormal or immoral to be gay. Unfortunately, anti-gay rhetoric has extraordinary, insidious muscle in the cultural landscape, and gay teens are particularly vulnerable. Parents of gay teens are sometimes “the last to know” a problem is brewing."

    The Dangers of Homophobia
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...ers-homophobia

    LGBTQ-inclusive bullying laws associated with fewer teen suicide attempts, study says
    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...1?icid=related

    Recent LGBTQ attacks highlight hate crimes
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/recent-lgb...ry?id=63575407


    lol

    It’s pointless to continue to argue because I can tell you guys have already made up your minds.... Not sure if I should keep answering... I's like debating with an atheist on whether God is real or not... It's a pointless convo because in their hearts they have already decided that they aren't going to change. Change comes from the inside, not from internet forum debates.

    With that being said, I'm sure there are some lurkers on this forum that are neutral on this position so I hope it sheds some light.

    And it's funny you call me hateful,

    I've actually been told i'm one of the most open-minded people; from non-Christians and gays in particular. (Ironically IMO conservatives are the true open-minded liberals).

    I actually hung out with some friends this past year...2 of the dudes were bisexual. I was very open and friendly with them... One of the dudes actually tried to come onto me, which I didn't invite. If you want you I can provide you with their contact and you can ask them personally if I'm homophobic lol, but I don't really care if you think I am regardless.

    Again we're not monsters... the main thing I wanted to point out is that:

    Disagreement doesn't mean hate.; you can actually disagree with someone's lifestyle and still love them, as Jesus did.

    However, I will say that I do make people uncomfortable because I tell the truth/things people don't want to hear.... It makes people not want to talk to me because of that, and they stop liking my social media (lol), but someone has to say it.

    Last edited by peteronfireee; 06-10-2019 at 07:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Why is homosexuality such a terrible sin, but adultery isn't? It has become perfectly acceptable to have sex before marriage. Why can't I have sex with a woman? What's the difference with regards to "sin"? Procreation does not count - we don't just have sex to make babies.
    Kim,

    While I do respect your beliefs,

    There are other groups (Christians for example) that have their own set of standards. They believe marriage is between one man, one woman. That sex is a gift that should happen within the confines of marriage.

    You and I aren't any better than people that choose homosexuality, or adultery.... You and I have our own struggles and sin that we deal with.

    I'm not saying homosexuality is worse than murder... What I am saying is taking a sin and now all a sudden making it unsinful is what the problem is.

    Emotionally, to us humans this may appear unfair because it involves two people loving each other and it isn't directly causing physical harm....I know it sucks, but that's what the truth is (according to the bible) I'm sorry.

    But people can do as they please. God allowed free-will, for people to choose whatever they want to do.

    However,

    The problem lies in forcing people to switch their views.
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 06-10-2019 at 07:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Kim,

    While I do respect your beliefs,

    There are other groups (Christians for example) that have their own set of standards. They believe marriage is between one man, one woman. That sex is a gift that should happen within the confines of marriage.

    You and I aren't any better than people that choose homosexuality, or adultery.... You and me have our own struggles and sin that we deal with.

    I'm not saying homosexuality is worse than murder... What I am saying is taking a sin and now all a sudden making it unsinful is what the problem is.

    Emotionally, to us humans this may appear unfair because it involves two people loving each other and it isn't directly causing physical harm....I know it sucks, but that's what the truth is (according to the bible) I'm sorry.

    But people can do as they please.

    However,

    The problem I'm saying is forcing people that don't support that lifestyle to switch their views.
    Nobody is forced to switch their views. But nobody has a right to deny a group equality because their religion says so. Separation of church and state. What the bible says, does not matter when it comes to legality. And why do you care if being normalized in society? If you are straight, it has nothing to do with you.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Nobody is forced to switch their views. But nobody has a right to deny a group equality because their religion says so. Separation of church and state. What the bible says, does not matter when it comes to legality. And why do you care if being normalized in society? If you are straight, it has nothing to do with you.
    If you did your research there are thousands of examples of the LGBT community forcing the church into doing things they don't believe in.

    Ex:

    One church doesn't believe a person practicing homosexuality should be able to preach, although they do allow homosexuals in the church and welcome them... Of course, the LGBT spins this as the church being hateful and not being inclusive, protesting and trying to change their doctrine .... The media also partakes in this and thousands of people are now thinking the church is hateful.

    Again, what I'm saying is leave the people that disagree alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    If you did your research there are thousands of examples of the LGBT community forcing the church into doing things they don't believe in.

    Ex:

    One church doesn't believe a person practicing homosexuality should be able to preach, although they do allow homosexuals in the church and welcome them... Of course, the LGBT spins this as the church being hateful and not being inclusive, protesting and trying to change their doctrine .... The media also partakes in this and thousands of people are now thinking the church is hateful.

    Again, what I'm saying is leave the people that disagree alone.
    So I never understood... when a person is gay, a religion thinks gay is sinful, and they don't believe they are committing any sins.. why still claim to be part of that religion? Why demand that a religion change to include them instead of denouncing that religion entirely? You can't base your truth on false premises and chopping away at a religion doesn't make it any more true.

    So what is the goal in asking Christian churches to allow gay priests? It's like asking your favourite meat shop to go vegan.

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    So you think being gay is wrong.

    And there are people who think "being gay is wrong" is wrong.

    You say you should be allowed to express your own opinion and they should leave you alone.

    They're also expressing their own opinions.

    The people that are protesting are expressing their opinions.

    The churches that change their doctrine are doing it out of their own free will.

    And so everybody is happy.

    What will likely happen in the end is that it will split into two religious sects, pro-LGBT Christians and anti-LGBT Christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    So you think being gay is wrong.

    And there are people who think "being gay is wrong" is wrong.

    You say you should be allowed to express your own opinion and they should leave you alone.

    They're also expressing their own opinions.

    The people that are protesting are expressing their opinions.

    The churches that change their doctrine are doing it out of their own free will.

    And so everybody is happy.

    What will likely happen in the end is that it will split into two religious sects, pro-LGBT Christians and anti-LGBT Christians.
    exactly! just don't go after the ones that don't want to!!!
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 06-11-2019 at 03:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luk View Post
    So what is the goal in asking Christian churches to allow gay priests? It's like asking your favourite meat shop to go vegan.
    yup. it's frustrating

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    Since the topic has come up, what exactly is so threatening about gays to Christianity? I mean what's so special about "man and woman" anyway? Seems like they have the same problems that gays have with the only benefit that they can have kids. ??
    Androgynous Robot Dreamer - Not really human, but good at pretending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    blame the merry quadras

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Since the topic has come up, what exactly is so threatening about gays to Christianity? I mean what's so special about "man and woman" anyway? Seems like they have the same problems that gays have with the only benefit that they can have kids. ??
    It can be very tempting to become a moral crusader for the natural order, however you end up defining nature.

    Step 1: you decide what is natural and what is not. Or you read a book. Or you ask someone else if you can't be bothered.
    Step 2: defend nature from any who dare disrespect it.
    Step 3: feel good about yourself.

    I can't say every Christian / religious person is like that, but I've seen enough people who took it upon themselves to defend the natural order against perceived insults. It's very self-righteous, but I think they do it because it feels good to be in the right.


    I must have done it in the past as well. You feel powerful when you defend something, no matter how arbitrary. You also don't get to feel any guilt, because it's selfless.

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