Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: The Morals Mega Thread

  1. #1
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,716
    Mentioned
    861 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Exclamation The Morals Mega Thread

    So many threads on morals and/or ethics popping up lately I can't keep up with where things are, that I might have replied to at some point, so I decided to make a thread where people can make their morals and/or ethics very clear, all in one place. So, go wild and let them be known, or don't.

    I posted this to another thread, reposting so definitions need not be debated.


    Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong.

    Comparison chart

    Ethics Morals
    What are they? The rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group or culture. Principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct. While morals also prescribe dos and don'ts, morality is ultimately a personal compass of right and wrong.
    Where do they come from? Social system - External Individual - Internal
    Why we do it? Because society says it is the right thing to do. Because we believe in something being right or wrong.
    Flexibility Ethics are dependent on others for definition. They tend to be consistent within a certain context, but can vary between contexts. Usually consistent, although can change if an individual’s beliefs change.
    The "Gray" A person strictly following Ethical Principles may not have any Morals at all. Likewise, one could violate Ethical Principles within a given system of rules in order to maintain Moral integrity. A Moral Person although perhaps bound by a higher covenant, may choose to follow a code of ethics as it would apply to a system. "Make it fit"
    Origin Greek word "ethos" meaning"character" Latin word "mos" meaning "custom"
    Acceptability Ethics are governed by professional and legal guidelines within a particular time and place Morality transcends cultural norms

    Contents: Ethics vs Morals




    Source of Principles

    Ethics are external standards that are provided by institutions, groups, or culture to which an individual belongs. For example, lawyers, policemen, and doctors all have to follow an ethical code laid down by their profession, regardless of their own feelings or preferences. Ethics can also be considered a social system or a framework for acceptable behavior.

    Morals are also influenced by culture or society, but they are personal principles created and upheld by individuals themselves.

    Consistency and Flexibility

    Ethics are very consistent within a certain context, but can vary greatly between contexts. For example, the ethics of the medical profession in the 21st century are generally consistent and do not change from hospital to hospital, but they are different from the ethics of the 21st century legal profession.
    An individual’s moral code is usually unchanging and consistent across all contexts, but it is also possible for certain events to radically change an individual's personal beliefs and values.

    Conflicts Between Ethics and Morals



    One professional example of ethics conflicting with morals is the work of a defense attorney. A lawyer’s morals may tell her that murder is reprehensible and that murderers should be punished, but her ethics as a professional lawyer, require her to defend her client to the best of her abilities, even if she knows that the client is guilty.

    Another example can be found in the medical field. In most parts of the world, a doctor may not euthanize a patient, even at the patient's request, as per ethical standards for health professionals. However, the same doctor may personally believe in a patient's right to die, as per the doctor's own morality.

    Origins

    Much of the confusion between these two words can be traced back to their origins. For example, the word "ethic" comes from Old French (etique), Late Latin (ethica), and Greek (ethos) and referred to customs or moral philosophies. "Morals" comes from Late Latin's moralis, which referred to appropriate behavior and manners in society. So, the two have very similar, if not synonymous, meanings originally.

    Morality and ethics of the individual have been philosophically studied for well over a thousand years. The idea of ethics being principles that are set and applied to a group (not necessarily focused on the individual) is relatively new, though, primarily dating back to the 1600s. The distinction between ethics and morals is particularly important for philosophical ethicists.
    https://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  2. #2
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,716
    Mentioned
    861 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Last call to post all your most firmly held morals in one thread. I tried to do it but it isn't as easy as I thought it would be. Most of this stuff has been ingrained in me since childhood so they are sub or even unconscious for the most part. The point of this is to see how similar morals can be in all 16 types or, alternatively, how people of same type can have vastly different morals based on upbringing, culture, religion, etc... Can't believe no takers so far. You might think this is a trap. It can be but it wasn't set up as a trap specifically.

    If no one has morals worth mentioning or aren't clear on them I am going to use this thread for another purpose.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  3. #3
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    4,983
    Mentioned
    636 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    All my morals derive from:

    Have kids. Take care of them in a way which will enable them to stand on their own feet without my assistance.

  4. #4
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't believe in any specific moral rules that could never in any circumstance be bent. What's best is to live a generally simple life and to be charitable toward others. Anything flowing from those principles is good; anything that isn't is likely bad, I think.

    By the way @Aylen, I don't think it's possible to draw a distinct practical line between the definitions of 'ethics' and 'morality' that you gave. Perhaps it's related that even academically, the two are often used as synonyms.

  5. #5
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,716
    Mentioned
    861 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I don't believe in any specific moral rules that could never in any circumstance be bent. What's best is to live a generally simple life and to be charitable toward others. Anything flowing from those principles is good; anything that isn't is likely bad, I think.

    By the way @Aylen, I don't think it's possible to draw a distinct practical line between the definitions of 'ethics' and 'morality' that you gave. Perhaps it's related that even academically, the two are often used as synonyms.
    It is a fine line I agree but within the context of socionics I believe it may be a distinction worth mentioning due to the external and internal nature of the definitions. People often say Fe is based on external standards and Fi on internal. I was curious if the definitions would impact the way people answer or if they wouldn't answer out of fear of being retyped which is something that is often done here. If you say you have morals you are automatically deemed delta or gamma by some. I don't let the definition of my self type keep me from saying what I think or feel. If someone wants to retype me based on something I say it is their lack of understanding not mine.

    I will use the example of the recent thread which was something about EII vs SEI morals. I have an EII sister and an SEI cousin and morally they are about the same being brought up by the same group of adults and raised with the same religious and cultural beliefs. The difference between them does not lie in their morals.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  6. #6
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It is a fine line I agree but within the context of socionics I believe it may be a distinction worth mentioning due to the external and internal nature of the definitions. People often say Fe is based on external standards and Fi on internal. I was curious if the definitions would impact the way people answer or if they wouldn't answer out of fear of being retyped which is something that is often done here. If you say you have morals you are automatically deemed delta or gamma by some. I don't let the definition of my self type keep me from saying what I think or feel. If someone wants to retype me based on something I say it is their lack of understanding not mine.

    I will use the example of the recent thread which was something about EII vs SEI morals. I have an EII sister and an SEI cousin and morally they are about the same being brought up by the same group of adults and raised with the same religious and cultural beliefs. The difference between them does not lie in their morals.

    Hmm. To begin with, I'm fairly new here, but it's surprising people would want to avoid being retyped -- it's isn't as if typology is a popularity contest; if they're interested in typology, you'd think people would welcome others' insights into their type. I agree though that it's irritating when people correlate universal human traits with type; e.g. ethical values with Fi, intellect with T, even political affiliation with some element or another.

    Incidentally, Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative is a pretty rigid ethical system -- and it was developed by an LII.

  7. #7
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,716
    Mentioned
    861 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    All my morals derive from:

    Have kids. Take care of them in a way which will enable them to stand on their own feet without my assistance.
    Isn't that what drives most animals including humans. I know there are parents who make their kids completely dependent but what happens to the kids when the parents are gone and they lack basic survival skills?

    Would you or have you embezzled money from a company? If not, is it only threat of prison, loss of respect or credibility that prevents you from doing so or is it your internal compass of what is right and wrong? Think carefully before answering since I want to know what truly guides you when it comes to something like stealing for financial gain not desperation.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  8. #8
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    4,983
    Mentioned
    636 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Isn't that what drives most animals including humans. I know there are parents who make their kids completely dependent but what happens to the kids when the parents are gone and they lack basic survival skills?

    Would you or have you embezzled money from a company? If not, is it only threat of prison, loss of respect or credibility that prevents you from doing so or is it your internal compass of what is right and wrong? Think carefully before answering since I want to know what truly guides you when it comes to something like stealing for financial gain not desperation.
    When you get to a certain level, there are a lot of things which feel like stealing but which are perfectly legal, and if you don't take advantage of them, then your influence (through money) in the world will be diminished. However, I'm in favor of changing the rules so that the things which feel to me like stealing are made illegal for everyone. That way, the playing field is more level.

    I don't steal from my company or from my customers or suppliers. That destroys trust and ends business relationships. I don't accept gifts (which are personal bribes from your suppliers to make overcharging the company seem acceptable), and I don't let anyone who works for me accept gifts. I operate as if everything I do could be made public at any time. Granted, a lot of what I do are things which a lot of people disagree with, but a lot of other people think they are constructive, maybe even necessary.

    I should mention that there have been plenty of times when I either gave away more money than I had to, or left money on the table, because I felt it was the right thing to do. Inequality does not make the world a better place.

    The only thing I ever stole in my life was a little yellow plastic toy airplane from the nursery room at church (where they put the kids while the parents are attending services). It kind of backfired, because I could never play with it. If my mother ever saw it, she'd ask me where I got it. So that clarifed a lot of things for me early on.

  9. #9
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,716
    Mentioned
    861 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Hmm. To begin with, I'm fairly new here, but it's surprising people would want to avoid being retyped -- it's isn't as if typology is a popularity contest; if they're interested in typology, you'd think people would welcome others' insights into their type. I agree though that it's irritating when people correlate universal human traits with type; e.g. ethical values with Fi, intellect with T, even political affiliation with some element or another.

    Incidentally, Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative is a pretty rigid ethical system -- and it was developed by an LII.
    Retyping based on NTR factors is the main issue. I was planning to post different philosophies or perspectives on morals if no one posted their's. I still may.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  10. #10
    ooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    2,087
    Mentioned
    170 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    basically everything the policeman said... nothing strict that should be tattoed on one's forehead, an understanding of each situation goes a way longer way. sure, I can be repulsed or attracted by some things, label them positively or negatively based on my ideologies, but ultimately even those ideologies can bend to reality and its infinite circumstances.

    I guess my morals are circumstancial, yea (except from some basic principle like: do not kill )

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •