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Thread: ILI-LSE Supervision

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    Default ILI-LSE Supervision

    Sry if such a thread already exists but I couldn't find one.

    As the title states: ILI-LSE Supervision, what does that look like?

    I've never seen an LSE and an ILI in the same room so what kind of criticism does the ILI have against the LSE and how does the LSE react?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    That's my mom and husband. Whatever the case it it's always great to have an EII in the middle.

    My husband overvalues her and thinks she can naturally get things done that he can't. My mother is the critic so she criticizes his Si (need to relax, need to take care of things later, need to not have things clean or organized and put away now). They joke around and such but my mother is "observe manners and don't kiss hug cuddle in public - that's for the bedroom." Lots of taboos. My husband is the opposite to that. She notices stuff about him and she criticizes or finds things to criticize about. Gamma quadrant lol.

    What seems like "it takes only a few minutes to do that" to my mom, the same task is "not that important to do now - let's do that later" to my husband.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    That's my mom and husband. Whatever the case it it's always great to have an EII in the middle.

    My husband overvalues her and thinks she can naturally get things done that he can't. My mother is the critic so she criticizes his Si (need to relax, need to take care of things later, need to not have things clean or organized and put away now). They joke around and such but my mother is "observe manners and don't kiss hug cuddle in public - that's for the bedroom." Lots of taboos. My husband is the opposite to that. She notices stuff about him and she criticizes or finds things to criticize about. Gamma quadrant lol.

    What seems like "it takes only a few minutes to do that" to my mom, the same task is "not that important to do now - let's do that later" to my husband.
    As ILI, wouldn't she critisize his lack of Ni?

    For ex. I don't see LSEs having a problem with SEIs' Fe but with their Te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    As ILI, wouldn't she critisize his lack of Ni?

    For ex. I don't see LSEs having a problem with SEIs' Fe but with their Te.
    She does "Instead of coming home and putting his clothes away he took a nap."
    This activity is more important at this TIME.
    Him: I need to REST (conserve my energy -Si) as to operate more affectively when I need to use my energy for work.

    Of course the work falls on me when I buffer and do what needs to be done now.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Director Abbie @Adam Strange @Sol @thehotelambush @golden

    ILI-LSE Supervision, what does that look like?
    If you can spare the time: Explain like I'm five, please. I don't think I value Ni so I don't even recognize what Ni-Polr is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    @Director Abbie @Adam Strange @Sol @thehotelambush @golden

    ILI-LSE Supervision, what does that look like?
    If you can spare the time: Explain like I'm five, please. I don't think I value Ni so I don't even recognize what Ni-Polr is.
    I've seen an ILI and an LSE work in the same company for a year, but they weren't close and I wasn't paying strict attention. They seemed to get along well enough, but neither ever went out of their way to talk to the other.

    I can't say how an Ni-dom would see someone who is Ni-PoLR, but I am close to being an ILI in a way (just the top two functions are reversed in strength), and I can tell you how LSE's seem to me.

    First, the good. I could not ask for better Te communication with another type. We instantly "get" what the other is talking about, and why, because we are both Te-doms. BUT, LSE's have Si as their second function and that makes them great at creating comfortable spaces and knowing what worked before, while LIE's have Ni as their second function and are therefore good at imagining future scenarios and projecting the most likely outcome of many possible futures.

    Ni-PoLR is, in my opinion, an inability to have faith that you can predict how something is going to turn out, just from experiencing the flow of events. I think that LSE's compensate for this lack of Ni by reading a lot of history and collecting facts about the world. This helps them to see how certain events, which have happened before, could happen again. Which assumes (and I think they know this) that all the inputs which created those events can be assumed to also be the same now. LSE's desperately want a rule book that they can refer to as gospel. It should preferably be based on historical experience. If they don't have one, they want to make one.

    When LSE's look at me, they think, "Smart guy, but he sucks at practical stuff. Why can't he see that if he just rearranged this and that, just like the historical rules in the book spell out, then he'd have a much better space or design or whatever."

    I, on the other hand, look at LSE's and see really smart guys who lack a creative vision for radical alternative choices in design or action. They can improve, perhaps better than any other type, but they can't seem to make leaps of intuition to see the best long-term opportunities. They seem unimaginative to me, even though I'm very aware that one of the best, most innovative design engineers that I know is LSE.
    So, as is usual in all Socionics ITR's, we're talking feelings, not facts.

    Since ILI's are better at Ni than I am, they probably view LSE's the same way that I do, only more so and with less appreciation for their Si. In other words, they probably (and I'm guessing here) view LSE's as direct, concrete, square and sensible, but future-dumb. Kind of like bricks.

    Let me add this about Supervision:

    My father, ex-wife, and son are all SLI's and my Supervisors. One day I decided to give Socionics ITR's a test. I know that my father never respected anything I ever did, even though I was out-earning him when I was 22. But hey, he went to Law School and volunteered for two wars, so maybe I'm a disappointment because I didn't. I get that, it's possible. And my ex-wife also thinks I'm an idiot, because her father is a big wheel in the town in which he lives and I'm not, she works for the University Law School and I don't have any job guarantees at all, and I keep spending money on stuff that she can't see any use for but which somehow, inexplicably and ignorably, almost always gives great returns.
    But, I thought, my son. He's not biased by accomplishments yet. So one day we were in the car, I think he was about 12, and I asked him if he thought I was an idiot. He froze for a minute, and I rephrased the question, because maybe it was too blunt. I said, "John, do you think I make bad decisions?"
    He replied, "Dad, almost all your decisions are bad." And I knew that Socionics ITR descriptions were correct.
    I asked him, "So, you are sitting in a S-class Mercedes with a guy who has run a successful company for many years and has kept his marriage together for an even longer time. Which of my decisions were bad?"
    He had no answer, but he still knew that he was right.

    ITR's. It's not reality. It's just how you feel about it.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-15-2019 at 02:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    As ILI, wouldn't she critisize his lack of Ni?

    For ex. I don't see LSEs having a problem with SEIs' Fe but with their Te.
    Yeah basically supervision is a guys polr gets hit by the supervisor. So in case of LSE ILI the ILI will probably criticize the LSE for not thinking longterm or ignoring potential long term consequences that the LSE didnt think of

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    @Adam

    “Since ILI's are better at Ni than I am, they probably view LSE's the same way that I do, only more so and with less appreciation for their Si. In other words, they probably (and I'm guessing here) view LSE's as direct, concrete, square and sensible, but future-dumb. Kind of like bricks.”

    Nope
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LSE do not get into continuous row of events. They are planners that map things out. When he’s planning or executing planned things he does not feel like he needs to be in an endless loop chasing after things to do things but my mother as an Ni is. Her loop is doing things where they are at physically. LSE are doing endless loop of doing something that they want or like and ignoring everything else.. My mother really puts people in the loop of actions. Like look at a full day with her and my baby. She gets up has a whole routine speaks to me about routine she will institute in 3 months or a year from now. Speaks to me about what the baby does when she wakes up. How she likes to eat and dance. How long it’s taken her to bath.... just endless loop of what is going on.

    My mother’s Ni, the loop of things that are going on, coincidences with Se energy.

    My husband probably wants to ignore the next unimportant loop. He wants to ignore and do JUST the necessary things.
    @MrsTortilla can relate to what I’m writing about with the Ni and endless loop of events
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-15-2019 at 03:45 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    As ILI, wouldn't she critisize his lack of Ni?

    For ex. I don't see LSEs having a problem with SEIs' Fe but with their Te.
    Yes and no
    He finds that she gets him involved in activities with her Ni loops of events.

    He finds it exhausting too because he’s relaxing and planning for something else, this something else is usually what can be done soon (I can repair the car or put it off). My mother doesn’t put things off. This is the same source of conflict in conflict relationship except ESE are more obliging and tolerant and LSE are not. LSE say “after I eat” and “I’m not doing that” “I’m working on this other thing now.”

    Diffence In priority of events and their importance
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    but supervisee can kick back very hard: look what I do... no need for it. I'll survive while your method makes me unhappy. Then supervisor goes like
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    She does "Instead of coming home and putting his clothes away he took a nap."
    This activity is more important at this TIME.
    Him: I need to REST (conserve my energy -Si) as to operate more affectively when I need to use my energy for work.

    Of course the work falls on me when I buffer and do what needs to be done now.
    Does your mother live with you and your husband?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Does your mother live with you and your husband?
    Yes
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Yes
    Then the situation has nothing to do with intertype relationships
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Then the situation has nothing to do with intertype relationships
    Are you serious? They are relating- the fundamentals of Intertype relationships
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Are you serious? They are relating- the fundamentals of Intertype relationships
    Sometimes I don't understand if you really this stupid or are you just Playing With Us
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've seen an ILI and an LSE work in the same company for a year, but they weren't close and I wasn't paying strict attention. They seemed to get along well enough, but neither ever went out of their way to talk to the other.

    I can't say how an Ni-dom would see someone who is Ni-PoLR, but I am close to being an ILI in a way (just the top two functions are reversed in strength), and I can tell you how LSE's seem to me.

    First, the good. I could not ask for better Te communication with another type. We instantly "get" what the other is talking about, and why, because we are both Te-doms. BUT, LSE's have Si as their second function and that makes them great at creating comfortable spaces and knowing what worked before, while LIE's have Ni as their second function and are therefore good at imagining future scenarios and projecting the most likely outcome of many possible futures.

    Ni-PoLR is, in my opinion, an inability to have faith that you can predict how something is going to turn out, just from experiencing the flow of events. I think that LSE's compensate for this lack of Ni by reading a lot of history and collecting facts about the world. This helps them to see how certain events, which have happened before, could happen again. Which assumes (and I think they know this) that all the inputs which created those events can be assumed to also be the same now. LSE's desperately want a rule book that they can refer to as gospel. It should preferably be based on historical experience. If they don't have one, they want to make one.

    When LSE's look at me, they think, "Smart guy, but he sucks at practical stuff. Why can't he see that if he just rearranged this and that, just like the historical rules in the book spell out, then he'd have a much better space or design or whatever."

    I, on the other hand, look at LSE's and see really smart guys who lack a creative vision for radical alternative choices in design or action. They can improve, perhaps better than any other type, but they can't seem to make leaps of intuition to see the best long-term opportunities. They seem unimaginative to me, even though I'm very aware that one of the best, most innovative design engineers that I know is LSE.
    So, as is usual in all Socionics ITR's, we're talking feelings, not facts.

    Since ILI's are better at Ni than I am, they probably view LSE's the same way that I do, only more so and with less appreciation for their Si. In other words, they probably (and I'm guessing here) view LSE's as direct, concrete, square and sensible, but future-dumb. Kind of like bricks.

    Let me add this about Supervision:

    My father, ex-wife, and son are all SLI's and my Supervisors. One day I decided to give Socionics ITR's a test. I know that my father never respected anything I ever did, even though I was out-earning him when I was 22. But hey, he went to Law School and volunteered for two wars, so maybe I'm a disappointment because I didn't. I get that, it's possible. And my ex-wife also thinks I'm an idiot, because her father is a big wheel in the town in which he lives and I'm not, she works for the University Law School and I don't have any job guarantees at all, and I keep spending money on stuff that she can't see any use for but which somehow, inexplicably and ignorably, almost always gives great returns.
    But, I thought, my son. He's not biased by accomplishments yet. So one day we were in the car, I think he was about 12, and I asked him if he thought I was an idiot. He froze for a minute, and I rephrased the question, because maybe it was too blunt. I said, "John, do you think I make bad decisions?"
    He replied, "Dad, almost all your decisions are bad." And I knew that Socionics ITR descriptions were correct.
    I asked him, "So, you are sitting in a S-class Mercedes with a guy who has run a successful company for many years and has kept his marriage together for an even longer time. Which of my decisions were bad?"
    He had no answer, but he still knew that he was right.

    ITR's. It's not reality. It's just how you feel about it.
    Thanks a lot! I couldn't have hoped for anything better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    @Director Abbie @Adam Strange @Sol @thehotelambush @golden

    ILI-LSE Supervision, what does that look like?
    If you can spare the time: Explain like I'm five, please. I don't think I value Ni so I don't even recognize what Ni-Polr is.
    Think about how it works in relation to Ne mobilizing. The mobilizing function is something you overdo while leaving the vulnerable function neglected.

    So LSEs can be overenthusiastic about their ideas for the future, and then an ILI may criticize and pour cold water on them: your idea won't work, etc.
    Or just generally having an over-optimistic attitude about things and overlooking unpleasant information until it's too late.

    Descriptions of LSEs neurotically planning out the future in great detail to avoid negative consequences on the other hand show a great deal of attention to Ni and therefore are generally describing LSIs, not LSEs, likely due to MBTI influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Sometimes I don't understand if you really this stupid or are you just Playing With Us
    I think you like to point out nonsense as to make people look weak. You are pathetic
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    I think you like to point out nonsense as to make people look weak. You are pathetic
    No I don't and that's actually the problem.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No I don't and that's actually the problem.
    pathetically Se -your real problem
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  22. #22
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    pathetically Se -your real problem
    No u
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  23. #23
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No u
    you must not understand the basic definition of intertype it's "between types"
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  24. #24
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Then the situation has nothing to do with intertype relationships
    I concur. Typical mother-in-law syndrome.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  25. #25
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bento View Post
    ILI-LSE Supervision, what does that look like?
    My best friend is ILI.
    We can understand how each other thinks to an extent. We connect on matters of logic and I could have no better study partner. Sometimes she brings up high-faluting abstractions that I just draw a blank on while she's expecting a reasonable response. And she doesn't appreciate some of my weird sense of humor or care about mundane physical trivialities. But she is a good friend.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  26. #26
    a two horned unicorn renegade Nihilist 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    My best friend is ILI.
    We can understand how each other thinks to an extent. We connect on matters of logic and I could have no better study partner. Sometimes she brings up high-faluting abstractions that I just draw a blank on while she's expecting a reasonable response.
    Ha, is it typical from supervisee comment about base of supervisor? I know LSI who shakes his head and tells me: Too d33p... .
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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