Discuss.
Yes
No
Only for financial gain
Only if no one finds out
Only if you are a lawyer or politician
Only if you are an artist
Only in an attempt to prevent an evil
Only in order to look good in public polls
Only to a loved one
Only to children
Only to yourself
I don't know
Other
Otter
Capybara
Is lying acceptable?
Discuss.
I forgot to have "No, I'm EII" as an option. I gather she doesn't read my posts in any case.
Is this a serious question?
Yes, I think it is something that there is in merit in discussing, although some of the poll options were tongue-in-cheek.Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
Always acceptable when in wait
"No, I'm Maritsa"
Damn. you're everywhere.
anything goes in the rough and tumble. hehehe
only if you are an artist. Artists and performers get special rules because they're special. We overlook their flaws and transgressions because they're complex and deep.
Lying is always acceptable. People who tell the truth all the time are easy to manipulate and control by shitty people.
Of course it breeds distrust, but it's good lie to people you don't trust in the first place. It's easy and gets them out of my way.
Example 1:
Someone walks up to me.. they appear like they could be up to no good.. possibly have connections to a organization or something that *could* cause trouble
They ask: "So is it true that your [Friend's name] did [xx] to [xx]? *Toxic giggles*"
me: "No I don't think so."
End Scene.
Just like you wouldn't give your money to a selfish rich person, don't give truth to a selfish influential person. It's fucking retarded and you should be ashamed if your petty ethics get in the way of making sure you and other people are safe.
My votes were initially a joke but... Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
The great Zen master Zhuang Zhou dreamt that he was a butterfly. When he awoke, he asked himself, "Am I a man who just dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly who now dreams about being a man?"
The great Zen master Zhuang Zhou dreamt that he was a butterfly. When he awoke, he asked himself, "Am I a man who just dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly who now dreams about being a man?"
From the chatbox (I've removed the messages of others):
[Today 07:41 PM] Subteigh:I just think it is pointless about whether such-and-such an action is acceptable, especially if the action is considered unacceptable by definition.
[Today 07:43 PM] Subteigh: It just seems very pantomime-like...that is why I quoted Iago from Othello doing an aside the other day.
[Today 07:44 PM] Subteigh: "And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover, To entertain these fair well-spoken days, I am determined to prove a villain. And hate the idle pleasures of these days." ~ Richard III by Shakespeare
[Today 07:45 PM] Subteigh: When I answered "No", I did answer truthfully though.
[Today 07:56 PM] Subteigh: In an ideal world, there would no lying. Ergo, I consider it unacceptable for that reason.
[Today 08:08 PM] Subteigh: [Regarding abortions] Yes.
[Today 08:13 PM] Subteigh:it is just an abstract, philosophical ideal. If I was asked by some Nazis where I was hiding a family of Jews, I wouldn't object to lying.
[Today 08:14 PM] Subteigh: I certainly lie when it is convenient for my own image.
[Today 08:15 PM] Subteigh: Immanuel Kant would say that if telling the truth causes harm, that is not your fault. But Kant did not live during WWII.
[Today 08:16 PM] Subteigh: I suppose you could just refuse to say anything. But that could arguably be lying by omission.
[Today 08:18 PM] Subteigh: Some would say that humour is a lie. But in my defence, I would say that jokes tell a truth, otherwise they would not be funny.
I know this is a troll thread, but I think it depends on the circumstances.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I don't know about you, but i believe in 'lying by omission'.I know this is a troll thread, but I think it depends on the circumstances.
electric shock lie detector collars with bolted clamps would make a handy tool for the most pathological of 'em...
I actually think the opposite. People who lie all the time are manipulated by their attempt to manipulate. Besides, manipulation and truth are like languages on their own, if someone is prone to use one of them much more often than the other, then they would search it and exchange it with people who shares the same language, they could have an hard time by communicating with someone who uses the other language.
It's impossible to give an answer due to the enormous variety of life situations.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yes, always
So lying is morally reprehensible but cool if someone’s life or safety depends on it. BUT we are all human and despite my idealistic belief I have sometimes lied and felt bad about it, I have sometimes told so-called white lies and felt ok about it. But currently I really try to stick to honesty as much as possible.
Only when done beneath the stars.
Lying usually just feels wrong and there is a risk of upsetting the person you are lying to, or if they spread your lie, it could affect many other people. Usually people with a conscience do not lie very often.
Last edited by Skepsis; 04-10-2019 at 10:01 PM.
7. Only if necessary.
8. Only if deserved.
pathological liars would be the ideal guinea pigs for electric shock lie detector collar because they could never not lie...
people with small egos typically lie the most....its when they tell the wrong lie to the wrong person they get their little tongues ripped out.
Or for telling truths people don't want to hear....
The only reason I see that you'd need to answer moral questions like this in a rigid manner is if you are trying to educate a definitional psychopath that is biologically incapable of feeling empathy on how to act as a semi-decent person. To me such questions feel completely redundant.
I'm happy to oblige either way. hehOr for telling truths people don't want to hear....
I don’t think it’s right to lie, but in some situations lying is the lesser evil.
I didn’t want to answer this question but I guess I’ll go ahead
I would come up with a clever way to get the information that I want. That is a catergory in my head that in reality borders lying and can actually be lying. Yes it is morally sketchy territory. But if it’s is not for evil purposes I let it go under the category of sketch but morally good. With that said I don’t go here very often and when I do I do it extremely purposefully and carefully as to not violate the sense of morality and then have to feel guilty and ashamed and beat myself up for weeks on end.
Here’s the contradiction to the above. Yes I know every fine moral category in my head
I don’t like lying not even white lies. My mother is infamous for white lies. She tries to get out of going to events by white lies “I have a headache I cannot go.” I am like mom just tell them you don’t feel like going. The truth is not that far away from your white lies. She thinks white lies prevent hurt feelings. I am truth to the point of bluntness. “I don’t want to go. I want to take my daughter on a walk. Can’t we do this tomorrow?”
Black lies are an absolute NO. There are things I wouldn’t do like cheating on my husband so I have no need for this category and when I hear other black lie I feel it and I shake my head and I walk away because I deem that person as not trustworthy.
My friends lie out of bad memory all the time but I don’t care. Completely forgivable. As long as the one lying is not me I don’t care how others live their lives.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
when you know that anything is doubtful and say something alike you have no doubts it's impossibly to be honest completely
These are off-the-cuff remarks. I haven't thought them through completely, but I want to share my perspective.
In "intellectual" circumstances, lying is absolutely forbidden for me. I won't spread misinformation and I won't hide anything if people want to know - that includes the big picture and the details. That doesn't mean I'll share everything with everybody but rather that if I choose to share, then I won't sugarcoat it.
I also hate denying myself the truth. Basically, I want to see the world for what it is - darkness and all. I've deliberately spent hours browsing all that I can, twisted or otherwise, on the internet to find something peculiar but true. The search excites me and draws the elixir of curiousity into a palpable form. It's a feeling that's irreproducible, and I absolutely cannot deny it from myself. Uncovering secrets is like smelling the rat-infested sewers that undergurd a steady house - you expect the house to be pleasant, yet nothing is pleasant. Unfortunately, it's few and far between but each discovery is an insight in and of itself.
In other circumstances, it sort of depends. With people I'm close with, I have no problem telling them the truth harshly, mainly because I know that they know my nature. If I'm talking to some random person, I might not be as harsh, but I will absolutely not sugarcoat it since denying yourself that truth does you no good. I find that people hide in their echo chambers out of fear that they'll hear something they disdain - but that't the whole point, in my opinion. I want to be introduced to the vileness that permeates our societies because that's perhaps the most interesting information you'll ever get. It's also the most useful information with regards to forming a picture of how people are. Knowing what people are "like" is not a matter of observing and appreciating or hating their outer facades - it's about deducing their core motivations through careful study of how they work. It's easy to get it wrong, but that's why you pay incredibly close attention and synthesize reasonably. Intuition is also obviously pretty damn useful in this case, but that depends on the individual.
All this being said, practical circumstances have to be taken into consideration. Obviously, there are consequences to telling too much of the truth to the wrong people. I have no problem shutting away some of the truth if I feel it's necessary for self-preservation. There are also a number of circumstances where truth simply doesn't matter as much as conclusions do. Cutting corners may be necessary in these circumstances. I tend to evaluate these on a case-by-case basis since to create a system would literally be pointless.
EDIT: Let me add that intellectual honesty includes admitting when you're wrong or openly stating when you've gotten facts incorrect. If I make an argument and, on review, I find that some part of the argument is wrong, then I will say which part is wrong and why it is wrong. If someone else catches the mistake (assuming they're correct), then I'll concede that I'm wrong. There's no point in trying to hide incorrectness when it comes to information. Obviously, there's room for debate, criticism of interpretations, different lines of analysis, etc. but when we're talking about hard, factual information, you can't get it wrong if your argument/system depends on it.
Last edited by FarDraft; 04-12-2019 at 05:15 PM.
----- FarDraft, 2020
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