Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 81 to 120 of 154

Thread: EII-ILE supervision relations (INFj and ENTp)

  1. #81
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
    Yes @Suz , I've considered all of that, all the ways people may be prejudice in their relationships outside of socionics. I was actually waiting on that very reply....
    But how about if you had a lot in common with a conflictor that you mistook for a dual. Would you still give it a shot? What if they were smart, a good person, your ideal version of who you would want to be with, but then you realize you are Socionically incompatible.... Would your knowledge of socionics, and knowing they are your conflictor, influence your potential relationship with them? What kind of thoughts is socionics going to brew in the back of your mind? Doubts? Is socionics creating prejudice? I think it might make one more hesitant.
    Sure, you can say people may be mistyped. But there isn't a blood test for it. There is no birth date to tell one where they belong. So can one ever be completely sure if they're correctly typed, or if someone else is?
    People can do what they want. Use socionics however they please. Maybe it won't make sense to other people what I'm saying. I just know that stereotypes have now been placed in my head, I feel a big red flag going up, telling me it's wrong, and this resistant push against it....hence the ranting.
    Well, as i said (maybe not in these exact words), i think it's a terrible idea to use socionics in the dating process, for the reasons i mentioned above. If a couple gets along well and has lots of mutual understanding and similar perspectives on the world, then it's pretty likely that they're duals or some other compatible type, no matter what some socionics test or type description might suggest... and that's good enough. Tests and descriptions are flawed... what you experience from real interaction trumps that.
    Last edited by Suz; 01-26-2015 at 04:58 PM.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  2. #82
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I would never use Socionics for selecting a partner. I will eventually type my partner and then maybe use socionics to make sense of behaviors or ways of communicating, but to type someone right away and to decide the person is/is not compatible sounds crazy to me...
    I fully agree.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  3. #83
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,773
    Mentioned
    266 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You seemed to have stumbled upon a Socionics truth: no matter your type, no matter how nice and kind you are, when in a close intimate relationship, all of us are invalidating, stressful and even psychologically dangerous to our Supervisees...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  4. #84
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,472
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wouldn't recommend socionics as a relationship predictor, just remember it's unproven, and also if it was there is that chance one of the types are wrong.

    If it's important enough to make it work then perhaps some sort of relationship counseling?

  5. #85
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,418
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    You know , an ENTP threw a stone in the lake and left. Without any bother to explain a bit of personal life and feels. Mby it's all made - up and it's just a story started from Socionics webpages with intertype relations .

  6. #86

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Two EIIs getting frustrated that an ILE doesn't want to talk about his feelings... He's Fi-PoLR ftw! And he's not a woman, so he was never that pressured to figure out how to talk about this stuff. Let him be.

  7. #87
    Esaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Them Fi creatives descending on the thread with the played out "relationship before theory" while ignoring that there appears to be a significant problem in the particular relationship regardless of relevance or reality of socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrennanWayne View Post
    it just feels that she has problems with the very essence of what it is to be me.
    Can you put a finger on what is it she supposedly dislikes and how that presents itself?

    So that people can give advice based on actual stuff or/and validate their "yes this is type related and it won't really get better".

  8. #88

  9. #89
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,418
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Two EIIs getting frustrated that an ILE doesn't want to talk about his feelings... He's Fi-PoLR ftw! And he's not a woman, so he was never that pressured to figure out how to talk about this stuff. Let him be.
    Nah I was just noticing this person is a hypocrite who doesn't care too much about making the relationship work in any way. He / She only threw two lines and left ....I see that contradiction in what this person claimed ...that he / she was curious about how to make it work. He/ She kind of wasn't. Or it's all invented . But surely ...he / she can without any problem say it's the EII who can't stand his personal essence and stuff . Something is off here .

    And by the say you are not ILE , I think . You don't have to 'defend' the type .

  10. #90

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @morningthaw I don't think you have any way of typing me correctly given the amount of interaction we had and especially that we never got to interact irl tbh.

    Nah I was just noticing this person is a hypocrite who doesn't care too much about making the relationship work in any way. He / She only threw two lines and left ....I see that contradiction in what this person claimed ...that he / she was curious about how to make it work. He/ She kind of wasn't. Or it's all invented . But surely ...he / she can without any problem say it's the EII who can't stand his personal essence and stuff . Something is off here .
    ...or he was already contemplating letting things go and just came to own conclusions. It's guesswork now anyway.
    Idk if the guy's a hypocrite, but if he is Fi PoLR what annoyed you is exactly how this could manifest imo. I'm not so much defending the "type" as stating what seems obvious to me.

  11. #91
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,418
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    @morningthaw I don't think you have any way of typing me correctly given the amount of interaction we had and especially that we never got to interact irl tbh.


    ...or he was already contemplating letting things go and just came to own conclusions. It's guesswork now anyway.
    Idk if the guy's a hypocrite, but if he is Fi PoLR what annoyed you is exactly how this could manifest imo. I'm not so much defending the "type" as stating what seems obvious to me.
    Fair enough about the amount of interaction . I guess I saw you typed Delta NF before and it vibed more accurate .Ethics actually .

  12. #92

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morningthaw View Post
    Fair enough about the amount of interaction . I guess I saw you typed Delta NF before and it vibed more accurate .Ethics actually .
    Fair enough, I've been going in circles for a while, before reaching the current conclusion, so no worries. Some suggested NeFi, others FeNi, either way sth was off. I def. have an ethical "mask" that I've adopted over the years in order to stop inadvertently offending people which was tiring (esp. given both parents are Fi-valuers). It made my typing ridiculously difficult though, before I managed to dig up why I constantly filter myself and when I just go "ta-tam" with my "charm" I manage to offend even the closest of friends when I'm only joking. Sigh.

  13. #93
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,481
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
    Aisa doesn't vibe delta NF imo from the few posts I've read of hers around the forum. I think more logical. Calculating like. Friendly but detached from it in a more logical way. Just a vibe I get.
    ummm... unless i'm hallucinating, she does self-type ILE....
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  14. #94
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    sniffing your butt
    TIM
    ILE-α/H, LEVF
    Posts
    5,473
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^ Yes, an EII tried hard to see me as ESTj at first. I think her son was an ESTj and she tried to compare us to bring out non existent conscious practical side out of me. He probably has somewhat active Ne. Later my 4D Ne and in sensor department 1D Si 2D Se became somewhat obvious and this comparison ended. It was hard for her to understand that my 1D Fi was not valued. I'm capable of creating Ti framework out of people which helps it just works very differently from Fi.

    It kind of worked out because she was supposed to be my supervisor.

  15. #95

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I just listen to their ideas and try to find them duals
    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    ^ Yes, an EII tried hard to see me as ESTj at first.
    I think that what Maritsa was saying is that she tries to find duals for ILEs, not that she tries to see ILEs as duals...?

  16. #96
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,161
    Mentioned
    625 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    I think that what Maritsa was saying is that she tries to find duals for ILEs, not that she tries to see ILEs as duals...?
    I try hard to find duals for everyone
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  17. #97
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    sniffing your butt
    TIM
    ILE-α/H, LEVF
    Posts
    5,473
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ok. Yes it is good to meet your duals. In my current work environment (went from science to teaching) there are many SEIs and they find me very interesting. We have very good irrational alpha time together. It is nice to be something else than just spaced out intellectual clown. I can be that in class environment.
    It is just seems that supervisor tries to modify the supervisee some kind of mix between identical/mirror and dual.

    And of course there is LSI to discuss about some extra stuff like theory of relativity and make them use their heads instead of... you know what

  18. #98

    Default

    Recently there's been some issues where she has been compulsively lying to me due to her doing things and hanging out with people she shouldn't be that get her into trouble. She's 18 so she's still young and immature in a lot of ways. I suspect she lies to avoid confrontation and criticism. She admits she has a problem with lying when she's in a good mood, she will not however admit lies at first when I confront her unless I have absolute evidence or bluff about evidence correctly. I am quite good at gathering information from her and ruling out what I think is true or not, but honestly it's driving me nuts. I feel like I have to fact check everything she does, and it's turned me into this controlling boyfriend that I never was before the lies started. She tells me I annoy her and treat her like a possessive probation officer even lol. But our relationship is great except for the fact that she lies. She lies because she hangs out with people who party too often and she'll give in and make stupid mistakes.

    How should I approach this better? Currently she says I am annoying her with my fact checking and not believing her. How should I deal with this? I suck at emotions and the fact that she's my supervisee makes it extra difficult to gain the other hand, because when I criticize her lying habits, she can easily discredit me with my pathetic Fi abilities.

    I don't know what to do about this, we have a 2 year old daughter together and CPS took custody away and gave it to her mother because of her recklessness, so I can't just drop the relationship. I love this girl, and we're great. I want to move past this, regain trust, and motivate her to better and not push her away because that's exactly what I'm doing being controlling. But my mind races and it drives me crazy when I know she's lying and doing things she's not supposed to. I wish I wasn't so smart and were oblivious, that or just not caring about her at all. Because this is causing way too much anxiety for me. It's like every day there's another lie :/ how do I motivate her to do better? I just can't seem to say the right things.

  19. #99
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,870
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Relationships work as long as there is porn in the bedroom
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  20. #100
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    sniffing your butt
    TIM
    ILE-α/H, LEVF
    Posts
    5,473
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Give some Te. Occasionally defend with Se (when you know you can handle it).
    Fake occasionally Fi by emulating it with analytical Ti ie make it sound like your own ethical perspective what someone goes through instead of providing logic. There will be Ti vs Fi collision nonetheless.

    It is exhausting in long term if there is constant need for contact. I wouldn't recommend that as serious relationship. Can be pretty good when you can keep certain distance and withdraw. Professionally can be very fruitful if both parties are flexible.

  21. #101
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,418
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    rofl

    it's the same dude. obviously they're still dating. or the EII chick is manipulating him big time.

    so they have a kid she expelled when she was 16. Wtf is this.

  22. #102
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,418
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Give some Te. Occasionally defend with Se (when you know you can handle it).
    Fake occasionally Fi by emulating it with analytical Ti ie make it sound like your own ethical perspective what someone goes through instead of providing logic. There will be Ti vs Fi collision nonetheless.

    It is exhausting in long term if there is constant need for contact. I wouldn't recommend that as serious relationship. Can be pretty good when you can keep certain distance and withdraw. Professionally can be very fruitful if both parties are flexible.
    It's kinda impossible for ILE to fake Fi. He'd be totally exposed and transparent. Even when they really get emotional and sensitive and stuff ...it's usually for kinda a few hours and there's no "ethical meaning" attached. It's usually only about their own emotions and quasi-narcissistic personality and how good you can make them feel or what they can get from someone/a relationship.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-07-2015 at 11:56 AM.

  23. #103
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,098
    Mentioned
    656 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    I haven't said this before, but this relationship seems doomed. There is a child but ultimately she's under the care of the grandparent for a reason.

    I've seen your other post on this and I relate to how you feel but sometimes it's better to just separate whatever your feelings might be at the moment.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...e-like-an-ESTj

    Try and be friends, but it's not worth trying to hold on to something that's broken in many ways. You think socionics can fix this, it's not going to do it, the socionic interaction will likely exacerbate any material problems that already exists.

    http://www.elle.com/culture/celebrit...-cover-photos/

    Here I'll give you some advice from a smarties like Anna Kendrick

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna
    Kendrick grew up in Portland, Maine, in a house sandwiched between the pond where she and her older brother, Michael, ice-skated in the winter and the baseball diamond where they watched Little League games in the summer. Their parents—Janice, an accountant, and William, a teacher—divorced when she was 15 but stayed on good terms. "I hate when people think you're broken because your parents are divorced," Kendrick says. "And I really reject the idea of staying together for the kids. If they're growing up in a house that's not healthy, it's better to know that's not the model of what marriage should be."
    You're not walking away from your child, or even abandoning your ex, you're just walking away from a toxic romance that's better off ended.

    You might think there is some sort of solution to this that involves you and her being together, but nothing you've said gives me the remotest thought that this could occur without her leaving you eventually.

    However this turns out, good luck.

  24. #104
    withoutd0ubt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    SLE-Se
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrennanWayne View Post
    I'm the entp, and it just feels that she has problems with the very essence of what it is to be me. Anyone been through this type of relationship before and can help me out?
    ILE married to an EII for 12 years. It's not you, everyone lets them down. She does have problems with the essence of you but try and grow from her. If you let it, they can give you a very intense non-judging love and encourage you to be your best you. Flirt with your ILE flirt, she'll get it, won't show it, but will love it.

    If it's a little fling then do your thing or be on with it because it takes time and effort. My case, she's a knockout so extra time was worth it. I began to feel calm around her... No crazy logic trains 24/7.

    $0.02

  25. #105

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrennanWayne View Post
    I'm the entp, and it just feels that she has problems with the very essence of what it is to be me. Anyone been through this type of relationship before and can help me out?
    Well, this was written nine months ago, I don't know what has happened to your relationship in this time but I hope you're OK and I just want to tell you this: I'm an EII and I've been married to my ILE husband for 19 years now. It hasn't been easy, but we're happier than most couples around us and, basically, people envy the quality of our relationship. So much for being "socionically doomed". If you need details, ask me questions and I'll do my best to answer them

  26. #106
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,161
    Mentioned
    625 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sergeyeva View Post
    Well, this was written nine months ago, I don't know what has happened to your relationship in this time but I hope you're OK and I just want to tell you this: I'm an EII and I've been married to my ILE husband for 19 years now. It hasn't been easy, but we're happier than most couples around us and, basically, people envy the quality of our relationship. So much for being "socionically doomed". If you need details, ask me questions and I'll do my best to answer them
    really? I find that ILE often ignore me. I take up the opportunity to say "hi" to them and to talk to them and they just smile and are off to their new activity or new something else and just not engage in the relationship.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  27. #107
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've been in a pretty close longstanding friendship with an ILE for about two years. I'd say there's not a whole lot of motivation to keep it going at this point. Occasionally, we touch base. However, for the longest time, I thought she was so incredibly special. ILEs are so fun, creative, devilishly smart, and wonderful at keeping their cards close to their chest, which makes them intensely interesting to me. I enjoy trying to keep up with them, surprise them, and impress them. The trouble is that while my Fi is bonding with them, building a strong sense of closeness and almost a sense of obligation to tend to their well-being, I eventually realize that the feelings aren't mutual, and that the notion of them being so would be horrifying to the average ILE. WHY would they feel obliged to ANYONE? They do something because it's fun and engaging, not anyone expects them to. I can easily cut the tie of obligation in my mind once I perceive ill will or misunderstanding, but it's not that clear with ILEs. They want me to be happy and want to have fun with me, but they have no desire for the Fi tie that binds us together in any way. On the other hand, I have had Te-egos seek that sort of profound meeting of souls with me from the start of knowing me. That's my natural function--to foster loyalty. To ILEs, I think it just comes off as clingy or "insecure," when it really isn't. I could just as well be alone! But if I'm spending time and energy with someone, it's to bask in the sense of "us," however "us" is defined.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  28. #108

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    really? I find that ILE often ignore me. I take up the opportunity to say "hi" to them and to talk to them and they just smile and are off to their new activity or new something else and just not engage in the relationship.
    Well, we started off quite early, in our teens and have been together since. We didn't know anything about socionics then I don't really know why it happened, we just loved a lot of things about each other. He's my very special ILE, well trained in Fi now )

  29. #109

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    The trouble is that while my Fi is bonding with them, building a strong sense of closeness and almost a sense of obligation to tend to their well-being, I eventually realize that the feelings aren't mutual, and that the notion of them being so would be horrifying to the average ILE. WHY would they feel obliged to ANYONE? They do something because it's fun and engaging, not anyone expects them to. I can easily cut the tie of obligation in my mind once I perceive ill will or misunderstanding, but it's not that clear with ILEs. They want me to be happy and want to have fun with me, but they have no desire for the Fi tie that binds us together in any way. On the other hand, I have had Te-egos seek that sort of profound meeting of souls with me from the start of knowing me. That's my natural function--to foster loyalty. To ILEs, I think it just comes off as clingy or "insecure," when it really isn't. I could just as well be alone! But if I'm spending time and energy with someone, it's to bask in the sense of "us," however "us" is defined.
    That's a very profound problem you've raised there. I've discussed it a lot with my husband who's ILE and with other people of the first quadra who share his values. Fi may be there for them, but Fe is much more important, so fun is chosen over duty, enjoyment over obligation. All that is true BUT Fi doesn't have to spell obligation in your relationship. You say that you like to bask in the sense of "us". How well do I understand that! But does that "us" imply exclusivity, a closed relationship? Does it rob your ILE of other possibilities? Do you feel that your relationship should be "the only special, the closest relationship" in her life? I'm just guessing here, but I started with all those feelings (and I think that may be natural to EIIs). If you sacrifice just this one idea, if you don't close in on an ILE, it may well work out. An open relationship does not necessarily mean falling in love with other people or having sex with other people. It's just about taking that "duty/obligation" element out of relationship. ILEs can be as loyal as anybody. But they will be loyal because they want to, not because they are forced to.

  30. #110

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    And another, more general comment. In order for an ILE and an EII to stay together they have to understand and imbibe the values of each other. This is especially true for the EII as the supervisor. Without valuing Fe and understanding its importance in the life of your partner you'll get nowhere. Also, keep your supervision in check. At first it's rather difficult but then it gets easier and easier. And you'll see that supervisory comments are often unnecessary and that ILE actually behaves

  31. #111
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sergeyeva View Post
    That's a very profound problem you've raised there. I've discussed it a lot with my husband who's ILE and with other people of the first quadra who share his values. Fi may be there for them, but Fe is much more important, so fun is chosen over duty, enjoyment over obligation. All that is true BUT Fi doesn't have to spell obligation in your relationship. You say that you like to bask in the sense of "us". How well do I understand that! But does that "us" imply exclusivity, a closed relationship? Does it rob your ILE of other possibilities? Do you feel that your relationship should be "the only special, the closest relationship" in her life? I'm just guessing here, but I started with all those feelings (and I think that may be natural to EIIs). If you sacrifice just this one idea, if you don't close in on an ILE, it may well work out. An open relationship does not necessarily mean falling in love with other people or having sex with other people. It's just about taking that "duty/obligation" element out of relationship. ILEs can be as loyal as anybody. But they will be loyal because they want to, not because they are forced to.
    I'm going to answer you via PM because my first (good) post got eaten by my computer (which now has a virus, yay) and the one I'm typing on a school computer has gotten rather long and rambly.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  32. #112

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    I've been in a pretty close longstanding friendship with an ILE for about two years. I'd say there's not a whole lot of motivation to keep it going at this point. Occasionally, we touch base. However, for the longest time, I thought she was so incredibly special. ILEs are so fun, creative, devilishly smart, and wonderful at keeping their cards close to their chest, which makes them intensely interesting to me. I enjoy trying to keep up with them, surprise them, and impress them. The trouble is that while my Fi is bonding with them, building a strong sense of closeness and almost a sense of obligation to tend to their well-being, I eventually realize that the feelings aren't mutual, and that the notion of them being so would be horrifying to the average ILE. WHY would they feel obliged to ANYONE? They do something because it's fun and engaging, not anyone expects them to. I can easily cut the tie of obligation in my mind once I perceive ill will or misunderstanding, but it's not that clear with ILEs. They want me to be happy and want to have fun with me, but they have no desire for the Fi tie that binds us together in any way. On the other hand, I have had Te-egos seek that sort of profound meeting of souls with me from the start of knowing me. That's my natural function--to foster loyalty. To ILEs, I think it just comes off as clingy or "insecure," when it really isn't. I could just as well be alone! But if I'm spending time and energy with someone, it's to bask in the sense of "us," however "us" is defined.
    I relate to this 100%, and ILEs have been my best friends. I bond with them so much over it's crazy, but they need to understand some things about so they don't simply think EIIs are annoying or off-puttingly too passionate and difficult to impress. They think if I'm impressed I'll use my to respond to them like a good buddy should, but what they don't realize is I don't have any lol and I feel like I'm just leaving them cold, since is such a focused internalized function. It takes time explain how you really feel about new, momentary things, that we're either not familiar with yet or we feel that we have no connection with. Fi is a function of reflection and takes time to establish bonds with ideas and sources of passion, but as Jung puts it, once finding its ideal it comes across so much more intensely and bewilderingly that for ILEs, the childlike or banal behavior in feeling Jung describes is simply mad, and the intensity of bonding with very specific images and ideals EIIs have is simply pointless and fruitless to the ILE. is approached from the outside, from people "in general," so it can enter into conversation on how people relate and what they're about, and how to feel about objective matters, but ILEs don't know how to enter into a discussion on feeling subjectively, the truly sharing of their deepest passions and feelings, and those kinds of discussions, that to others should be so simple. It's completely trivial to them I think, and the things they most love are treated very subtlely, sometimes unseriously. I usually tone down my Fi around them, try to phrase things intelligibly instead of just letting my love and feelings out, but it creeps back up and they usually just keep it to themselves in thought, leaving only this impression of pretending to ignore what I just said in order to not feel accountable for responding... then unless it becomes too blinding for their focus, then the serious ones will make excuses that they need to go away, and the funny ones will comment about how strange and distinct your behavior is. Ah... ILEs are so blind to what I know to heart as real love and passion, but luckily they're often so fun, creative, and funny not to relate to anyway, and I'm usually a pretty respectful guy who is interested in hearing their thoughts and opinions.
    Last edited by 294585; 10-14-2015 at 03:42 AM.

  33. #113

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,961
    Mentioned
    1092 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sergeyeva View Post
    In order for an ILE and an EII to stay together they have to understand and imbibe the values of each other.
    The problem of bad IR is people don't like values of each other and don't want or can't to support each other good. It's like to play by different rules and what is good for one is bad for other. If people understood each other - they'd did not try to make long relations with bad IR as to be friends is hard and tiresomely having them.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  34. #114

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    753
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default EII and ILE Supervision relations

    It is literally like having a child who says the most foul things to you and about you or others in public and you have to constantly discipline the child about what is right and wrong to say. And ILE's natural tendency is to push the boundaries to know where they are.

    It's about constant boundary pushing and enforcing, the entire time. Also built up resentment from all the foul things said.

    Can work together on with Ne though, really nicely there. But Fi and Ti clash so hard. And Fi PoLR is a bitch to deal with.

  35. #115
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    199
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's funny because I was thinking about Fi porl - Fi base relationships earlier today. It seems that there are a lot of them.

    Currently I live two girls: one ESE and one EII. The EII's boyfriend is ILE and he is often around.. Seeing them interact can be very awkward. She likes to tell us how bad of a companion the ILE is. Like how he never listens, how he doesn't commit, how she feels like he is not there with her when they are alone together. Sometimes she does it out of nowhere while we are eating and he is right there with us. He usually tries to change the subject as he is embarrassed.

    Unfortunately the walls of my room are very thin and I sometimes can hear them having sex in the shower in the morning. They seem to be having a lot of fun. It's a lot of laughing llooooooool. I guess it's not all bad then

    But generally speaking (and that's just my opinion) Fi porls are not so happy with Fi base partners. Or it's more like they don't realize that they could easily be happier.

    The good thing is that Fi doms are able to carry the relationship on their own, or at least most of it. They start the relationship, they make it official, they decide when things are great and they decide when things are bad. Thanks to this at least Fi porls get to experience an actual relationship with someone that genuinely care for them and that is not scared to express it. Its often not as easy with their duals especially in the first stages of the relationship.

  36. #116
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    sniffing your butt
    TIM
    ILE-α/H, LEVF
    Posts
    5,473
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK
    #1 Personal distance that is incommunicable does not register.
    #2. Not willing to to accept lack of hazy precision.
    One sees it as a necessary step towards impersonal understanding the other one sees it as breaking personal understanding.
    #3. Does not see value in advice. Making money for ILE is absolutely secondary priority - time as resource and money is not sacred. Bridging the gap interpersonally tends to happen via lively banter not via advice.
    #4. Does not really value understanding of their personal point in things – so the support is seen as intrusive.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

  37. #117

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    753
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @YXPR

    Unfortunately the walls of my room are very thin and I sometimes can hear them having sex in the shower in the morning. They seem to be having a lot of fun. It's a lot of laughing llooooooool. I guess it's not all bad then
    Oh god! Feels bad for you.
    That's the problem though, all this fun and banter, which is really fun, makes it seem like this is working, makes it seem like everything is fine. Which it's not horrible but man it's rough when it is rough. No pun intended. Look what I'm doing here, I am complaining about my ILE friend in public, sort of like your friend.

    @Troll Nr 007 idk what any of that means really. I do know Ti gets off saying really nasty things sometimes and Fi-dom just can't deal...and Fi PoLR doesn't understand asking"Why are you so squishy?" And Fi-dom doesn't see their squishyness as squishy but as normal and has to explain that over and over again to Fi-PoLR.

    Honestly I think EII supervises ILE through silence. ILE Ne needs to be having an affect on people, needs to be causing reactions out of them, good or bad doesn't matter, it loves shock value. If EII doesn't like ILE behavior and EII recognizes that they like reactions they withdraw their reactions from ILE and become silent, and then ILE is left to ponder the worst in silence, which they usually think the EII absolutely hates them, it's not that severe but this works in favor of the EII. That is the only way I have been able to regulate my ILE friends behavior. 3 different ILE that I know that has worked on.

    I agree about bridging the gap through banter, yes that works real well.

    This relation from my experience isn't, OMG EVERYDAY SUX I HATE THIS PERSON. Or I wouldn't be friends with ILE.

    It's more like, we have alot of fun, but there are so many tiny moments of frustration and hurt that it builds up and creates a history of pain that you think can't really be changed. It's not death by being crushed, but death by 1000 papercuts.

  38. #118
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,630
    Mentioned
    187 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just want to say that supervision is not an attitude of the supervisor per se. It simply happens because of the unfavourable functional matches. The supervisee can feel it even when the supervisor is totally cool and not in any way consciously "supervising". This is also why it is so devilish.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


    My Pinterest

  39. #119
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    199
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    @YXPR



    Oh god! Feels bad for you.
    That's the problem though, all this fun and banter, which is really fun, makes it seem like this is working, makes it seem like everything is fine. Which it's not horrible but man it's rough when it is rough. No pun intended. Look what I'm doing here, I am complaining about my ILE friend in public, sort of like your friend.

    @Troll Nr 007 idk what any of that means really. I do know Ti gets off saying really nasty things sometimes and Fi-dom just can't deal...and Fi PoLR doesn't understand asking"Why are you so squishy?" And Fi-dom doesn't see their squishyness as squishy but as normal and has to explain that over and over again to Fi-PoLR.

    Honestly I think EII supervises ILE through silence. ILE Ne needs to be having an affect on people, needs to be causing reactions out of them, good or bad doesn't matter, it loves shock value. If EII doesn't like ILE behavior and EII recognizes that they like reactions they withdraw their reactions from ILE and become silent, and then ILE is left to ponder the worst in silence, which they usually think the EII absolutely hates them, it's not that severe but this works in favor of the EII. That is the only way I have been able to regulate my ILE friends behavior. 3 different ILE that I know that has worked on.

    I agree about bridging the gap through banter, yes that works real well.

    This relation from my experience isn't, OMG EVERYDAY SUX I HATE THIS PERSON. Or I wouldn't be friends with ILE.

    It's more like, we have alot of fun, but there are so many tiny moments of frustration and hurt that it builds up and creates a history of pain that you think can't really be changed. It's not death by being crushed, but death by 1000 papercuts.
    I think the silence thing depends on the EII. My EII roommate isn't really silent. Sometimes we can hear her reprimanding him over the phone. They are both young adults so that might play a role in the dynamics of their relationship as well.

    I like the way you describe your relationship with ILEs because it's kind of what I have experienced with LIEs. That's why now I make sure to stay away from them.

    But isn't it weird how supervision relationships are so frustrating but also so common? Maybe some people do find happiness and there is a way to make things work out.

    In your case what attracts you to ILEs in the first place?

  40. #120
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,458
    Mentioned
    125 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some EIIs won't let up on preaching to ILEs even when the ILEs seem to be far more successful by not having listened to the preachers. Some ILEs can also lay it on thick so as to appear even further outside the EIIs' moral conduct zones because usually, they easily perceive EII blindness toward their needs for complete freedom........

    a.k.a. I/O

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •