are you like me?
I imagine and picture things happening a certain way and it NEVER happens the way I picture it.
For instance I am daydreaming and imaging my daughter's party this weekend, about us sitting on the picnic blanket, about her on my lap playing. Come this weekend what will really happen is something totally different then what I imagined. Is this related to weak Ni? Or am I dreaming of my daughter and I as a bond from strong Fi?
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
more weak Ni...when an inner sense for your daughter's mental, emotional and spiritual view/world/values comes to you, that's your Fi (being able to step inside another person's shoes) and when you grasp the possible ways in which the surrounding environment will affect her inner mental, emotional and spiritual view/world/values, that's Ne-creative.
No, that is focus on Ni. It makes no difference whether what you imagine will happen or not, you're still focusing on the imaginal world.
I have an LSE good friend who is about 25 years older than I. He had four kids. Three moved out, but the youngest one is still living at home at age 32. He and she absolutely do not get along, but his wife takes his daughter’s side over his. She leaves her clothes all over the house, never cleans, criticizes him relentlessly, eats his food and doesn’t work. She is a perfect foil for an LSE.
He has tried buying his daughter a house to get her out of his (he is pretty well-off). She moved back home.
He tried buying himself and his wife a new house so they can move and leave the daughter in their present house. His wife refuses to move.
About once a month, he comes over to my place and complains about his daughter. Last year, she found a guy who wants to marry her, and my friend was so happy, anticipating that he would finally be rid of her. I was less optimistic.
Now it turns out that her fiancé, who is presently living with them, will continue to do so after they are married.
Why can’t my LSE friend see where this is going?
I often imagine idyllic situations whereas reality can fall short. My expectations for such situations has decreased as I’ve gotten older as I’m more aware of how things will probably play out in actuality, adopting the perspective of having no ‘grand’ expectations to avoid disappointment. So I’m aware of ‘how I’d like things to be’, ‘how they’ll probably be’, and ‘how they could be worse’. I notice I focus a lot on things that could interrupt the harmony of the situation and try to avoid them, even taking preliminary precautions to make sure they never make it to fruition. Every party I’ve been to I think has turned out differently than I imagined it to be. In the details, and it’s difficult for me to imagine people that come I’ve never met, and how they will affect the flow of the situation. When I know people more, and a place, it’s easier for me to predict how they will react to situations, or the chemistry of how they will interact together in the situation. Introducing something foreign can initially throw me for a loop, but once I catch on to that particular flow, I can add it to the equation.
Sounds like weak intuition i guessOriginally Posted by Beautiful sky
@Aylen would know
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
i do that too. i can tell when someone is emotionally changing. i see her playing with a musical instrument inside my imagination and her reaction to the instrument. it all goes on in my mind but i am 100% accurate when it comes to her likes and dislikes just not other external events like where exactly we will be sitting as she's enjoying the instrument
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think it depends on the context that you're within. If you're trying to imagine something as realistically as possible but your imagination is not at all what happened in reality, then I think that that signifies weak Ni since your predictions were incorrect (though one piece of data cannot be conclusive). However, if you're purposefully imagining an ideal version of the situation (one that need not be connected to reality), then I think it could point towards valued Ni that's probably stronger than 2D (though Ni HA may also be like this).
----- FarDraft, 2020
Omg my IEI friend said she’s just like me with her imagination.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Do EII have 1D Ni?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yes. It's the difference between spontaneous (or even "recreational") behavior and trying to meet an external demand. There is no external demand for foresight here, or if there was it wouldn't be a realistic one.
Put another way, strong Ni is measured by predicting things you can actually predict, like, if you drive drunk, you may get in an accident.
My predictions are incorrect.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
He’s living in the moment. He can probably predict where it will go since he doesn’t have any positive clues. LSE can take out the crystal ball you know. Just when it comes to relationships they are weak about pushing things because they don’t want severed ties. He really owns his daughter as his even though she’s a mooch
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Give an example of an incorrect prediction you've made.
The wrong president winning the election.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
He and I have been friends for 20 years and I don't think that's his take on things. He gets so angry at his daughter that he avoids going home sometimes, just because she's there. He'd be rid of her in a heartbeat if he could do it in a way that wouldn't make his life even worse.
Myself, I'd never have let the fiance move in. And then I'd start taking a hard look at whose side my wife was on, and whether she was enabling her daughter to be a zero in life.
He once asked me how I view the future. I asked him what he meant? He told me he views the future as a path that branches in front of him, and then everything goes dark beyond a certain point, as if he really can't see what happens out there, and can't project the most likely possibilities down the road.
I should add that this guy has been extremely successful in real estate (he says it's because time is on his side in real estate) and he is one of the best engineers (if not the best) that I know. He can't invent very well, but he perfects designs masterfully.
Well my husband says to me in 20 years we will retire sail the world probably live in another country. Sounds to me like he’s not happy
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
But imagining something like playing together on a picnic blanket is not really a prediction, although it is something that could happen if you chose to enact it, correct?
What I tend to imagine predictively is more modeling of how people will behave in future, or how a situation will unfold within specific parameters, and it can be on request or in response to concerns such as survival-based ones. I see it like movies that play in my mind and it is often quite surprising and specific.
Otherwise, it does sound more like vague daydreaming, what you describe.
ETA: Sorry for the all-caps "although," fixed.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
My friend is also a world-class iceboat competitor. Iceboats are boats with sails that run on ice.
Where did you get the "not happy" part from your husband's plans?
Yeah I don’t have strong Ni at all “His strong intuition of time permits him to foresee the course of events, and in time to feel as well as conduct himself as one man or another. He thus has the ability to operate in the political arena. He eagerly alerts those, whom he respects, of threatening situations and other dangers. He straightforwardly states possible troubles to others for it is always deemed preferable to act in an already established situation.”
Course of events is different from expectations or a fantasy
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Right what you said is Ni.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Your friend is not happy. A happy LSE builds fantasy, daydreams about being with their wife and all sorts of activities. That’s what my husband does and he tells me all the time how happy he is and how much he looks forward to certain events
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'd say things happen the way I expect them to most of time but I get pretty annoyed on the occasions they don't.
Well, if what you describe is not just some kind of daydreaming that does not tie in with an information element, it could possibly have a connection to Ne, in my opinion. You're describing a greater openness to random imagery than I have. I have some, but I will usually take it up and direct it into something when I notice it happening, do something silly with it, make jokes in that domain. It always seems to me that Ne egos have some ideas percolating in their minds that are more open-ended than mine, and that some people enjoy taking those ideas and doing things with them almost because absolutely nothing has been done with them yet.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Kind of. I don't dream about future events, but I do day dream about past memories turning out differently. I know it's completely unrealistic but it entertains/calms me sometimes..
I don't really do it consciously. And it comes and goes in bursts. A few minutes ago I got a weird "feeling" of shrinking down to microscopic levels when I saw this little crack in my wall. I pictured a ton of bacteria and insects living in that tiny hole and just having a good time, a la "Charlotte's Web". I think it only lasted for about three or four seconds, though. And that's how it is, even with "Daydreaming". My imagery is not that vivid, in fact, it is quite shitty IMO. I can't clearly picture what a product of my imagination looks like in detail. And this makes most of my "daydreams" actually be "day-impressions", I suppose? And "Dayfeelings".
As for predictions, lolno. I don't place much emphasis on trying to do it myself, I only joke about it.
Yesterday, our History teacher popped a History test without telling us. It's a shitty move, considering everyone is exhausted after the mocks and just waiting for spring break to arrive (in a week), so the results are bound to be disastrous. Today, before History class, I was spending some time with a few mates and said: "Watch her give us another surprise test in order to 'KEep Us oN OUr fEet'"
She did.
I found it hilarious and fired "Itoldyou's" left and right. It was pretty absurd, she didn't seem to want to give us the test at first but then the class got a little antsy and talkative.
You see, the moral of the story is that High School sucks donkey balls.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
Yes you were right about it being Ne. I just asked my IEE friend
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Being human, I am certainly able to imagine things that don't in fact happen. And yet I am quite good at predicting certain things: e.g. I often predict that I am unlikely to die in the next week, and I predict that when I make a shopping list, there is a good possibility I will buy the things on the list. But I also have these things I call "dreams", that occasionally defy all logic, nevermind possibility.
I am certainly nothing like a person who claims to be 100% accurate when it comes to the mind of someone else: I'm nowhere near 100% accurate even when it comes to knowing my own mind.
As you know, according to socionics Model A, (model J too) EII are supposed to have strong Ni. As strong as their Fi. They just wouldn't prioritize or value it much. It plays an important part in their worldview.
Think of some EII writers and how they use their imagination to create elaborate imaginary worlds full of possibilities that definitely don't come to pass. They imagine possibilities and it is not that they are foreseeing anything although sometimes they do that too. My EII sister is a writer and an artist. I have read a lot of her work but not all. There is a lot of Fi and Ne in it. She wrote a non fiction manual on holistic health once. There were elements of Si and Ni in it and I felt somewhat irritated reading it. I didn't bother to tell her what I would change. It wasn't my book. This is why IEI and EII are called quasi-identical.
Like you said you were just having a daydream. Most people have daydreams at some point in their lives, even ESxx. My ESE sister is always daydreaming some get rich quick plan so she can have money to help people. They never work out. I just let her be now unless I know she is going to be hurt or lose a lot of money. Then I step in and I get my EII sister to back me up. I use the EII as a buffer so I don't make the ESE upset or cry. It also helps because having the EII as back up the ESE doesn't feel like she is not being heard. We have mostly agreed to leave her to her own life lessons. The EII still goes behind my back and meddles into the ESE's life but the ESE doesn't seem to mind since it is mostly relationship advice.
I can see how it would help you facilitate a bond with your daughter if you include her with play so don't worry about whether it comes true or not. I mean does it really matter that it was different than you imagined that day to be if the day with her was good anyway? I don't see how you were using using Fi/Ne to put yourself in her shoes though, since nothing you said sounds like that was what you were doing. So yeah, you were just using imagination.
Playing with children involves imagination. I used to play with my friend's son when he was like 4 or 5. We made a spaceship out of an armchair. I was his copilot. We traveled the stars together. I told him I was an alien then showed him an old green card I had from my teens that said "resident alien" on it. He and his sister were shocked. lol The kid kept asking me "are you really an alien?" He was all wide eyed and innocent looking. It was cute. I would say something like "I might be". I don't think I ever told the kid I wasn't an alien. I am sure he will figure it out. It was fun and I played along with everything he said. I couldn't do this all the time as kids tend to wear on me but I enjoyed it for short periods of time.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I get deathly afraid of bad things too so please don’t tell me either
Also more information: when I was sitting with my daughter I was holding her in a certain way on my lap and she was so happy reaching for a toy in front of her and giggling and talking in her baby language. I guess I want that happy moment to play out just like that in reality. I was in turn reaching for the toy too and my dream cuts off ther. It was a happy moment
Last edited by Aylen; 03-29-2019 at 06:15 PM. Reason: removed the section of my post that I said "do not quote please"
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No, worries since I know to keep "bad" things to myself if they can't or shouldn't be changed. I can still talk about them with my brother or my mom (to a lesser degree) so it is ok.I get deathly afraid of bad things too so please don’t tell me either
Also more information: when I was sitting with my daughter I was holding her in a certain way on my lap and she was so happy reaching for a toy in front of her and giggling and talking in her baby language. I guess I want that happy moment to play out just like that in reality. I was in turn reaching for the toy too and my dream cuts off ther. It was a happy moment
It looks like you are getting your happily ever after in the form of your child now. I am happy for you.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Again, that's not something strong Ni will help you a whole lot with, because of the inherent difficulty in predicting it. If it did help, all we'd have to do is find an IEI or ILI to predict elections for us. They might be right on average more than someone with suggestive Ni but it's still a probabilistic thing.
Maybe he can but his Fi Suggestive with Si makes him choose to take care of others and accept what his wife and daughter want over his own preference. I've seen pretty similar things happening to other LSEs as well and I always get perplexed of why LSE let people to do x or y things to them (usually wife and/or kids). I think this could be weak Ni, but I'm sure this is also related to Fi suggestive and Si.
In my case, there are times when I'm able to think in the possibilities or consequences but I don't see how potentially one is more likely to happen than other possibilities. I'm usually optimistic and when a negative outcome happens (that I did see) I'm like "why on earth I didn't consider that the negative one was more likely to happen over the positive one?" I've no car and I lost some money recently because of two possibilities that I thought of and brushed off as "not likely to happen", just because I often listen to Fi HA (trust in ppl) rather than overly pessimistic (but more realistic?) Ni possibilities. Amusingly, both tricksters were Deltas NF (yes, ppl should distrust EIIs words too, regardless of how well put together they seem to be). On the other hand, If I listen to much to Ni I just get stuck in thoughts and passivity (Ni Role) such as many other Ni lead ppl I know (who need Se to literally force them to do stuff).Ni related problems seem an unsolvable maze to me. Hard to balance or test. Meanwhile, Se and Ne ppl start and destroy worlds indiscriminately motivated by the mere "what if", "why not" and "yolo".
Last edited by Hope; 03-29-2019 at 08:41 PM.
When it comes to elections where the choice is between two people you might as well toss a coin because it is 50/50 until it no longer is. Most of the people I know who "predicted" Trump would win have weak Ni anyway. Sometimes a prediction is wishful thinking as well since the alternative is hard to swallow. That goes for either side.
On another level, I would say it has something to do with movements of the collective mindset that ultimately predict the outcome. When there is enough power and energy behind an idea it will manifest. It just depends on who takes the most action to bring it to fruition. Many people who didn't want Trump to win, for example, didn't even vote or weren't even eligible to vote since they don't live in the US.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I don't predict things- I have mad anxiety that tells me to shut the door on certain things so they never evolve into the possibility of something bad. If a guy gets too close and has the face of a tiger stalking his prey, then I won't wait for him to prove that he is doing so. I will just attack him first or just show general hostility so that he is at least aware that I know about what he wants.. or I will just avoid him lol.
Maybe it's my sp instinct + enneagram 6... it's like I know that certain people will ruin my way of life and try to push me into uncomfortable situations. So I just never let it happen. Never.
Now that I think about it, it might be more related to Ne for me. I don't relate to predicting things, I just assume all sorts of things could happen.
So if you were planning a party for your infant daughter at a park what would your Ni do?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I do this alot, especially when I find someone I am attracted to, I will imagine a ton of who they are and then when I speak to them they are nothing like how I dreamed them up to be.
This sounds like Ne more than anything else.
Sometimes I'll be given a prediction but I don't pay attention to it because how can I know it will happen (Ne doubt), and sometimes it actually happens, my guess is this is unvalued Ni. It is not controlled by me, just my brain just spawns a very silent and feint idea of something happening, and then boom it happens. It freaks me out and I never trust it when I get it.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 03-29-2019 at 11:45 PM.
Lol damn, funny enough I have said the same with my LSE friend.
ILE has no job but wants to move in with me and LSE friend, I tell LSE friend it's because ILE has no money and wants to live off of us. He says "Hell no I won't let that happen." But still agrees to move in with ILE friend -_-.
Why can’t my LSE friend see where this is going?
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