Do any men truly like INTj women?

[Creepy-Another INTJ Female]

I think one of the things in play here is age and maturity. As a much younger person, people who didn't know me always thought I was younger than I was because I always looked several years younger than my age. People who knew me thought I was older because I had a maturity level well above those in my age group. That maturity did not bleed over into the emotionally ready for a real relationship side of things. On those rare occasions when a young man started expressing a real interest in me beyond me being just one of the guys, I would start to shut him out. Not particularly wishing to hurt feelings, a little discouragement to startout with, but if that didn't do it, I could get down right mean, in a very cold and impersonal sort of way. The more they pushed and (gag, wretch) declared their undying devotion, the more I felt the need to put distance between us. Just call me the Ice Queen. No, it was not fun for anyone, myself included.

When I finally decided that I didn't really want to end up being the world's oldest virgin, I took care of that by looking around to see what my best options were and picked someone who was much older and who I knew would not mistake what was happening for anything other than what it was. It was really a little less cold blooded than it sounds because it was someone I knew well and liked and respected, but we both went into the affair knowing that it was just that. I did not want a long-term emotional entanglement anymore than he did.

Did this mean that I was completely without emotions and a heart? Not at all. I was just very adept at protecting those things because I knew how vulnerable I really was and I knew that when I did let myself fall for someone they would own me, heart and soul - and that person had not yet stumbled into my life.

I am now closer to 50 than I am to 40, and I will soon be celebrating my 20th anniversary with the man who did steal my heart in a very sneaking and insidious way - by first becoming one of my best friends. No pushing, no pressure, just my friend and then my lover and then my husband. He is, BTW, an ISFP, and as you can imagine there have been a lot of opportunities for misunderstandings down through the years. Against all odds he is still my best friend and if anything I love him more today than I did twenty years ago.

There are very few people who I would call friends of my heart, and each of them earned a place there by accepting my as I am, just as I have accepted them, and in no case did they get there quickly. I guard my heart well, so well that if queried most people would say I don't have one. Those who know me well and who have wormed their way past the layers know better. They are also the only ones who can cause me real pain.

Where was I? Oh yes, age and maturity. I don't know any other INTJ females and only a couple of INTJ males, but I would hazard a guess that we all mature very quickly in some ways, but very slowly in others. I would about be willing to bet that the young lady in question will grow up and out of whatever stage she is going through right now. Perhaps she was feeling a bit pressured and reacted to that by behaving the way she did. Look her up in five or ten years and you might well see something far closer to the finished product.

[mike_INTJ]

Where was I? Oh yes, age and maturity. I don't know any other INTJ females and only a couple of INTJ males, but I would hazard a guess that we all mature very quickly in some ways, but very slowly in others. I would about be willing to bet that the young lady in question will grow up and out of whatever stage she is going through right now. Perhaps she was feeling a bit pressured and reacted to that by behaving the way she did. Look her up in five or ten years and you might well see something far closer to the finished product.

a quick question if you remember, how did your future husband court you? was their a techinque used? i'm sure it couldn't be only words, i;m just looking for methods. thanks

[Creepy-Another INTJ Female]

Hey, I'm not *that* old.:-) Yes I do remember and I can tell you that there was no overt courting, which worked in his favor. I actually met him when he was married to someone else, which automatically made him "safe" as a friend. A few years after we met, that marriage went down the tubs, with no help from me, BTW. A few years after the divorce when he started becoming sane again, i.e., not feeling the need to self destruct (something SPs do quite well), it somehow happened that we got together as a couple. And then we got married. I always tell people we never really dated. He will argue that point, but I'm right. :-)

I have to tell you, though, that I had finally decided that I was never going to find Mr. Right and that I needed to start living my life for myself as opposed to waiting for that magical person to come along and sweep me off my feet. I bought a house, relaxed, and truly started living fully for myself. While I had always mouthed the words that one must be complete in and of themselves before they can become half of a couple, I had not actually lived that way since I was still holding out hope that Prince Charming would come along and rescue me. Ok, so I read way too many fantasies and romances. But you are seeing a pattern here, right? While on the one hand I discouraged all comers, I was secretly still waiting for that perfect guy - the one who would take the time to really get to know me and melt the ice. It was only after truly became comfortable with myself and becoming a whole person that I was rewarded with Mr. Right. And no, I did not settle on him just because he was there. He had been there for quite a while, but the time would not have been right for either of us a moment before we actually did get together.

So, what did he do to court me? Like I said, nothing overt. He was himself, and he allowed me to be myself. He respected my intelligence and was not at all put off by it. He actually understood my sense of humor, which meshed well with his. He listened when I talked. The importance of these things, while they seem so simple, cannot be overstated when dealing with a very strong INTJ who also happens to be a female.

[Creepy-msk]

another INTJ female-- what type is your husband?

ENTP Male and Another INTJ Female-- i agree, maturity is the big factor. Looks like ENTP male is mature (though you say you are mentally 17)

[Creepy-]

another INTJ female-- what type is your husband?

Looks like ENTP male is mature (though you say you are mentally 17)

Thanks. I think I'm a little smarter than I was, but no more mature.
I'm trying like hell though. At this point in my life I think I need to either consider it part of my "charm" or try to turn it into an asset. One thing's for certain, a sense of humor about yourself makes it all easier.

[Kirana]

"While I had always mouthed the words that one must be complete in and of themselves before they can become half of a couple, I had not actually lived that way since I was still holding out hope that Prince Charming would come along and rescue me. Ok, so I read way too many fantasies and romances. But you are seeing a pattern here, right? While on the one hand I discouraged all comers, I was secretly still waiting for that perfect guy - the one who would take the time to really get to know me and melt the ice. "

another INTJ female - you just described me! and, i also look a lot younger than i am. i'm 26, but i pass for an undergraduate, sometimes when i'm in sports clothes, even for a schoolgirl. but once people hear me talk and get to know me, i get things like, "you sure you're not 30 yet?"

you know what? i haven't got tired yet of finding out that there ARE other people who have gone through exactly the same things i have, and thought the same way i did. before going on these forums, there was no evidence anywhere that i wasn't the only one of 'my kind'. no female i knew or knew of was like me. i had to play by ear the whole growing up thing.

there are many things i don't understand about relationships, though. for instance, i've observed that married men often complain that their wives don't give them enough personal space and time. and yet men seem to go for women who are the opposite of the kind that would give them personal space. :wink:

another thing about INTJs - we hate having to do something several times. if something is worth doing, it should be done right, and it better take as few tries as humanly possible.

[Creepy-Guest]

"
there are many things i don't understand about relationships, though. for instance, i've observed that married men often complain that their wives don't give them enough personal space and time. and yet men seem to go for women who are the opposite of the kind that would give them personal space.

I wish I could answer that. I guess that the thing about women who don't give you space is that early on the relationship, they also give the guy a lot of attention and they are very clear about wanting you around. Some guys like that I want you thing. It makes you feel good, in kind of a shallow way, but I can't say I haven't fallen for it. The guy, in response, gives all that attention right back. Everyone is happy. Then life happens and you need space to keep the bills paid, travel for work, mow the grass, blah, blah, blah. Uh oh, someone's needs to get met so they up the ante. When it's all "new", that seems fine but you expect it to wear off. Well for many women it never does. Then maintaining the relationship at that level gets to be a part-time job for the guy. It's all the dysfunctional relationship stuff that shrinks talk about.

[Creepy-Another INTJ Female]

I, too, have found comfort of a sorts in finding out 1) what I am, and 2) that I am not alone. I didn't know until a couple of years ago that there is a name for people like me, but I did know that I had never met another one, or at least not one who is female.

Being able to quantify that has been very helpful. Finding out what the husband is has also been helpful. Being able to show him descriptions of me in writing along with descriptions of him has been priceless. Even more priceless is the fact that he actually beleived what he read. Too many sources for even an SP to ingore. "See, dear, I may be a little weird, and it looks like you truly have never met another woman like me, but I'm not completely alone in my weirdness. So there."

Random thoughts:

Growing up I always heard the words "you're too independent" as if that was something bad. Never did understand that - what exactly is too independent?

I've never been a girly girl, was always more of a tomboy. I didn't want dolls, I wanted a microscope and a chemistry set. They finally caved on the microscope but never did let me have a chemistry set. I think some of the things I grew to look at under the microscope scared them, although I found out much later (like after he was dead) that my father was secretly proud of my independence and questing mind.

While not being a girly girl and having no interest in girly things, I have also never felt like anything but a female. This is where stereotypes start interfering with the reality of being INTJ and a girl.

So, guys, if you are wanting your stereotypical girly girl, you probably aren't going to want an INTJ. That's good, we don't need you. If you are interested an intelligent, thinking, and loyal companion with a warped (by some standards) sense of humor who will keep you challenged, there are a few of us out there, some of whom are still available. Ok, you could probably get a border collie with at least a couple of those attributes, but that wouldn't be quite as much fun and certainly not as rewarding as unraveling the layers around an INTJ heart. Yes, we do too have those - we just don't show them to anyone but a select few.

[Guru]

I think to like INTJ girls alot you have to be a xxFJ boy. only then would you be caring and planning enough to keep up with the INTJs presumptuousness and strong ideas. At least the one INTJ girl i've met was really hard to get along with, although our personalities are not to distant form each other

[Kirana]

yes, i get the 'too independent' thing too. i notice it's usually when i'm not following the prevalent opinion or thinking. which is often. and when i go off alone to places, instead of going with an entourage. sometimes this is because people i know don't want to go to places i want to go to. sometimes it's because other people would just slow me down. :wink:

do you get "you think too much"? what about "too intelligent"?

i didn't get a microscope. but i got a chemistry set. lucky for me, my dad doesn't care that i'm not girly. when i was a girl, he gave me the chemistry set, taught me algebra, gave me (unabridged) classics, etc. my mom was worried a bit over my lack of interest in things considered girly. i think the first time i honestly decided that i wanted to be a girl after all was when i first fell in love. since then i developed some more conventionally female traits. although, i still view make-up the same way as making my bed - for much the same reasons. except make-up's worse - you actually need more skill for it than for making a bed.

one thing that works for me personally is if a guy can surprise me. pleasantly, of course. being outmanouevred or caught off guard is probably something i think only INTJ females truly appreciate. something nice done ingenously and unexpectedly is very hard to resist. in fact, sometimes the ingenuity of the delivery can actually be appreciated as much as or more than the nice something.

[Guru]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

[mimisor]

yes, i get the 'too independent' thing too. i notice it's usually when i'm not following the prevalent opinion or thinking. which is often. and when i go off alone to places, instead of going with an entourage. sometimes this is because people i know don't want to go to places i want to go to. sometimes it's because other people would just slow me down.

I get, from different people, "you're an alien", "you're not paying attention" "where are you with your thought"

yes the same with me, when I want to go somewhere, it's hard for me to persuade others to join me and I don't like to beg, so I end up going by myself

[mike_INTJ]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

it's a stereo type. i was really poor at school. but it also may be that i didn't know how to learn. or that they taught in a way i didn't understand. i need to see everything as a whole before they break it down.

[Kirana]

i was good in school. excellent, in fact. which is ironic because i didn't like the curriculum and i didn't think it encouraged kids to think or to learn. but i knew how to work out how to score in the exams and i did. seriously, half the time i scored by working out what the examiners want. if i gave my own answers i would not have done half so well. of course, i also seriously tried to absorb as much things as i could that made sense. a lot of knowledge comes in handy later in unexpected ways.

i liked english because the essay portion was the only time i could get creative in school.

[Creepy-]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

Do not use INTJ unless you mean the MBTI INTJ. And that is very ambiguous to attempt to correlate IQ with type.

[mike_INTJ]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

Do not use INTJ unless you mean the MBTI INTJ. And that is very ambiguous to attempt to correlate IQ with type.

do you have the links to seperate the two? it get's all very confusing. thanks

[whoever]

socionics.com uses INTj for socionics and INTJ for MBTI.

[Creepy-another intj girl]

Wow. I'm not the only girl like me! Does anyone else have the problem of not noticing anything going on around them? I was told recently that I "have the gift of oblivion" but I think sometimes it's more of a curse. I have a relationship story that I might want to share about that, but for now, I'm just testing the waters here.

[Creepy-whoever]

a person with weak will. myself at least, i am not particularly proud with the fact that i'm oblivious to what's going on around me. so i think the N types are not happy with that comment.

[Creepy-intj girl]

No. I wasn't insulted. It was my little sister Laura who said it. My older sister said to her, "Laura, only you could make an insult sound like a compliment." Even then I didn't really see it as an insult.

[Creepy-]

It's not that I'm proud of it, but it was obviously true, so I couldn't really be insulted. It seemed to me like she said it out of the blue, but I had no idea why, and everyone seemed to know why she said it, so apparently I had missed something! Should I share my story about how I royally blew a relationship because of this trait?

[Creepy-]

That was me BTW that wrote that. Hi all, I'm new here. I test as INTj, but who knows, maybe I'm the 17th type . Nice to meet you all!

[tcaudilllg]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

Unlikely... most INTJs I've known score in the 130-140 range on IQ tests, well below the INFPs and INTPs, and well, well lower than anyone with crossed judgement/perception. (they start at 160 and keep going up...)

[Creepy-ENTp M]

btw, i just read that INTJs are highest ranked both in IQ and grades at school, so that are something to be proud about!

Unlikely... most INTJs I've known score in the 130-140 range on IQ tests, well below the INFPs and INTPs, and well, well lower than anyone with crossed judgement/perception. (they start at 160 and keep going up...)

Horse doodle. - ENTP

[tcaudilllg]

Unlikely... most INTJs I've known score in the 130-140 range on IQ tests, well below the INFPs and INTPs, and well, well lower than anyone with crossed judgement/perception. (they start at 160 and keep going up...)

I have never viewed any valid data that would support this. So if you want to provide me with a study on enough people that would support this then go ahead. IQ tests are not very accurate when measuring levels beyond a certain percentile. So using this data to do a study with would automatically make the results invalid. You would also have to type everyone that was participated in it... and we all know how tests can be manipulated to produce the results the person wants and some of the people will tend to have inaccurate ideas of their type making this even more so BS.

A person who can successfully fool a correct IQ test without letting on to others that they've done it is quite intelligent indeed....

IQ tests are modeled after the responses of academics, after all.

Most people don't try to improve their scores on those things. They usually don't care much about them, and the higher one's score the more they feel detatched from the population, the less they care or are even comfortable talking about it.

[Creepy-]

they start at 160 and keep going up...)

About one in a few thousand people has IQ's above 160.
2 in a hundred over 130.
moron

[Creepy-]

Are there any men out there who aren't completely turned off by the INTJ personality on us ladies, or who don't simply want to try (and fail) to use us for a fling?

No. Everyone is turned off. Stop posting this crap

[Creepy-]

as an INTJ you probably can't even be taken advantage of and used as a fling, you probably don't need to say it, others can see it on your face.

If you want more attention, you need to strengthen your weaknesses, which are indeed the same as mine, you my friend do not know how to flirt. Haha goodluck.

[galadriel]

Yes I do remember and I can tell you that there was no overt courting, which worked in his favor. I actually met him when he was married to someone else, which automatically made him "safe" as a friend.

I find it really funny that you use the word "safe." I divide male acquaintances that way too and feel so much more comfortable around the "safe" ones who are either (I think - and I've been wrong about this) either too old or too happily ensconced in a relationship to go after me.

[niveK]

The "safe" phenomenon seems to be consistent across the LII/INTj type (assuming I am one). I'm more self-conscious around females that are "unattached", even if (though less so) we both know that we only want friendship. If the female is already "taken", I'll make all kinds of jokes, not fearing it being taken the wrong way.

It could possibly just be a weak Fi thing.

[Kirana]

i do that. i hate it when i do that, but i do. hence i'm always ending up attracted to people it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to get, because i'm far more cautious around people with whom a relationship would have no conventional barriers. i'm wondering whether this is simply because the people i'm attracted to are attractive to me, regardless of whether i open up more with them, or whether i'm getting to know them much better because i'm less guarded around them.

[galadriel]

i do that. i hate it when i do that, but i do. hence i'm always ending up attracted to people it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to get, because i'm far more cautious around people with whom a relationship would have no conventional barriers.

When I was a few years younger I went for the guys who were impossibly older than me. I've gotten better about moving it to my age group. I think I have a little of an advantage as an INTj because I spent years when I was growing up pretending to be an extravert.

[cjcoldmine]

i do that. i hate it when i do that, but i do. hence i'm always ending up attracted to people it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to get, because i'm far more cautious around people with whom a relationship would have no conventional barriers. i'm wondering whether this is simply because the people i'm attracted to are attractive to me, regardless of whether i open up more with them, or whether i'm getting to know them much better because i'm less guarded around them.

I didn't understand a word of what you wrote

[Kirana]

don't worry about it. i think you've got to be doing the same thing to get what i said.

it goes around in circles - 'if i did a instead of b, perhaps it might have resulted in d instead of c, which means it's possible that the reason why i'm getting result c is specifically because of my choice of b over a. or maybe result c is independent of my choice of b over a'.

so if you really want me to explain, then i will. if not, i'm too lazy.

[galadriel]

don't worry about it. i think you've got to be doing the same thing to get what i said.

No, I do it too and I understood exactly what you meant. :wink:

[Polly_G]

I'm an ENTP and I have the same problems finding a mate pretty much as the INTJ females do but just with a slightly different spin on it.

I don't want someone to like me for my looks but for all the other wonderful qualities I have. I find that a lot of guys I've dated have mistook my positive attitude and lack of care for the little details as me being a bubble head.

If my intelligence is not respected, I will leave the relationship. I won't be treated as a possession. I also won't let myself just be used. I also hate being the brunt of sarcastic jokes all the time. It's demeaning and more often than not these people don't recognize my intelligence. If you give these people a dose of their own medicine, they usually can't handle it. Besides, I don't like making sarcastic jokes at another's expense.

Sometimes I feel what I'm looking for is unnattainable. Someone who is emotionally mature, intelligent and respectful. Someone who will speak up in a respectful way if there is a problem but who doesn't sweat the little things driving me up the wall.

I'm only barely extroverted and bounce between being extroverted and introverted depending on my circumstances. Any advice?

[Creepy-ENTp M]

I don't want someone to like me for my looks but for all the other wonderful qualities I have.

Sure I got some advice. Just "ugly up" for a prolonged period of time until you meet somebody who likes you for you, just take good looks out of the equation. My daughter does it all the time when she gets sick of the cat calls. Next peice of advice, you can always just quickly reject what you don't want and move on. Pretty girls seem to be very familiar with that tactic in my half a century of experience of rejection by pretty girls, going all the way back to my mom........oh no, Doctor I need my meds.

[discojoe]

STOP BUMPING THESE STUPID INTJ TOPICS. NO ONE CARES ABOUT STUPID INTJS. THEY ARE STUPID. EVERY FUCKING TOPIC HERE IS "WHAAA IM AN INTJ NO WOMEN WANT MY SCROTUM SLAPPING INTO THEIR THIGHS WHILE I PREMATURELY EJACULATE INTO THEM."

BOO HOO. STOP ACTING LIKE LITTLE GIRLS AND GO OUT AND DO THE SHIT YOU'RE SO SCARED OF. GAIN ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE LIKE THE REST OF US INSTEAD OF SITTING IN FRONT OF THE COMPUTER ALL DAY WHINING ABOUT HOW SOME GIRL AT THE DRUG STORE GLANCED AT YOU CASUALLY AND YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH HER. PATHETIC.

[FDG]

So does the caps lock make you penis look bigger?



Precog: I don't need to

[ILENTp]

I agree with discojoe and I think it's the same thing as ENTp M was trying to say in another topic. Whining about how difficult it is to relate to people isn't going to help. Using your socionics type as an excuse for not accomplishing your interpersonal goals only makes the problem bigger. If you want a solution you have to "tough-love" yourself into doing exactly what scares you. Of course that doesn't mean asking out all the girls you meet, take it one step at a time; 1. start a conversation, take it from there.

(Wow, maybe I should write self-help books. Copying all those other self-help books is easy.)

Anyway, I don't really care what you do as long as you stop filling up the forum with posts about how awful it is to be you, and how little you intend to do about it.