Quote Originally Posted by June Webb View Post
Hello again, Fardraft... Yes I agree there's a whole variable thing that might implicate on how the type would present itself.

Well, the way I see this is that type seems to be blatant obvious in some people, as in you can look and see it in five minutes because they fit right in to that stereotype or type description, like an ILI friend I have. I think Quadra values could perhaps be good. But as I said previously I'm new to this. There seems to be a lot of gray areas...
I generally agree with this. Type can be quite obvious in some but not in others. Sometimes, certain attributes of one type fit but so do attributes of another. It then becomes difficult to discern which attributes are more important than others, so falling back on principles, exemplars, or experience can help. My take on quadra values is that they serve as a way to better understand society as a whole and how people generally interact, but it's not the best at typing individuals unless one's values are obviously fitting into one quadra. Too generalized to determine precise motivations, cognitive styles, or behaviours. For example, a more academic ILI may not seem as gamma as, say, an LIE businessman. The gamma values will probably be there, but they will be a lot more understated. Similar with LII and alpha.

In the case of this supposedly LII friend I have, see if you can help me out, Far... he seems somewhat critical of the people he knows and has some kind of intimacy because they don't follow his ideas or his standards. Not really an intellectual guy but tries to appear-like, has single minded ideas about how the world works, etc. But has a lot of difficulty on being assertive with people he doesn't know, in simple things such as denying a beggar some money because he might look possibly threatening (even though not obviously threatening) it seems like he can only use Se in the realms he knows well, like having a discussion in the family, trying to make himself listened. He seems ambicious, like want to get money but in my POV he just wanted to have better quality of life and spend time on videogames, sweets or other self-entertaining/creative work. If he were to be an LII, we would have to assume that he is an unknowledgeable one, assuming that he only has the logical structure without being beyond average smart. Perhaps I'm wrong about his type, but all the people he admires are alpha and his personal tastes also. I used to say he liked silly things and watching videogames and cartoons were spending time, my doubt is that he seems eager to get money, but as I said I guess he seems simply as a means to an end: a luxurious life, I could be biased though. Unlike the ILI friend I have, wich he says is too serious and uncongenial, he kind of understands or at least has some conscious of how the dynamics of a social atmosphere might work, even though not knowing how to contribute to it. While as my certain ILI friend talks about topics wich can cause some distress (not as an LIE) without paying attention to the current topics people are "vibing" on, such as talking about politics or a book he was reading with me without paying attention to the other topic people seemed more excited towards wich was south park or whatever.
I'll see if I can help. I might need some more information, though.

"he seems somewhat critical of the people he knows and has some kind of intimacy because they don't follow his ideas or his standards." (Just a tip, I don't think intimacy is the best word for this context). I don't find that this is really true of INTx's in general. Most of them don't care about how other people do things. They're too detached and aloof, for the most part, unless you're in their inner circle. In fact, LIIs might be the most independent type, so that's something to consider. LSIs are usually more vocal about other people not doing things "correctly". While some LII profiles paint the type as more revolutionary, most in real life are just opinionated rather than vocal.

"Not really an intellectual guy but tries to appear-like, has single minded ideas about how the world works, etc." What do you mean by intellectual? Does he not know a lot or does he just make a lot of judgments of too little information? Does he try to be "deeper" than he actually is?

" But has a lot of difficulty on being assertive with people he doesn't know, in simple things such as denying a beggar some money because he might look possibly threatening (even though not obviously threatening) it seems like he can only use Se in the realms he knows well, like having a discussion in the family, trying to make himself listened." Weak Se, like you say. For LII it is difficult to talk in a commanding tone. Imperious intonations are not characteristic of him. Although, if he loses his temper and flares up, he may say unduly sharp and harsh things.

However, similar things are said about ILI. For example, Although making demands is precisely what is difficult for the INTp. He is a kind of person for whom it is difficult "to pull his will into his fist". The ILI doesn't know how to and doesn't like to subordinate someone else to his will. So it's not conclusive to LII.

"He seems ambicious, like want to get money but in my POV he just wanted to have better quality of life and spend time on videogames, sweets or other self-entertaining/creative work." Seems SiNe valuing if this is true. However, In this description of the ILI-Ni, Meged and Ovcharov write something similar "Often lacks in determination and confidence in himself. In his soul he is an idealist who envisions a beautiful, harmonious, and prosperous life, but is quite passive in finding the means to achieve it." Does this fit him?

Have you considered some Te type for him? I'm honestly getting the feel that he's an SLI for some reason, maybe a type 6 disintegrated into a type 3 who is trying to act more intellectual than he is due to this unhealth. Te ego types can often be arrogant in this way, and I'm not really getting the feeling that he's NT (though this is completely subjective). I've noticed some parallels between what you've written and common LII/ILI descriptions, but I don't think it's really enough to conclude INTx.

What are your doubts on your type? Perhaps I could help it sort it out. I consider myself an IEI and I can identify with what you are saying. What is exactly being a Positivist? I'm mostly pessimistic, is that a score against IEI?
My doubts are that I can see lots of similarities between myself and both LII and ILI descriptions. While I can't relate to the rigidity of an LII, I can relate to their analytical thinking and drive to create new ideas both for theory and application. However, I'm also very critical of ideas unless I've thought them through, which is more ILI than LII. While most of what is written about ILI makes sense, I can't completely relate to Si role. It fits better when I was younger. Nowadays, I care less, though I do love to cook and eat good food. Also, Sol's IR test, despite my critiquing it (I'm not fully convinced of my critique), strongly suggests I'm LII, but I refrain from making judgments on IR until I can actually meet people in real life. I also fudged that test since I didn't spend nearly enough time or focus on each of the videos. I might redo it later on. I think a more logical and rational INTp makes the most sense since I see that I used a lot more Ni than Ti in my younger age, but LII is still an open possibility.

Positivism an optimism shouldn't be conflated. While they can be linked (SEEs and LIEs, for example, are very optimistic), they are two fundamentally different ideas. At its core, positivism is about noticing what else could be included (not in an Ne way) whereas negativism is what could be missing. Optimism is about being hopeful and confident of success in future endeavours whereas pessimism is the presumption that the worst will occur in the future. You can read more about positivism vs. negativism here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...and-Negativism

I don't think being pessimistic and being IEI are at all mutually exclusive. In fact, given the highly emotive nature of the IEI, I would expect nothing less than periods of dramatic pessimism and exuberant optimism. Beta is naturally more prone to dwelling in negative emotion, anyway.

This is some very good literature you posted. Some points I have that I think don't match with IEI is: I don't see myself as a person with strong Fe, because I'm not a gregarious person, I can be like that some times but is very situational and I have to make an effort. Te thing I think it matches perfectly. I'm mostly helpless on daily, procedural, monetary affairs.
Cool.