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Thread: do you think duals have a tougher time than avg getting along?

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Default do you think duals have a tougher time than avg getting along?

    I mean real duals, not mistyped ones - you'll have to take my word.

    I think it can be harder to get along, and I'm not sure, if it's b/c you *don't* understand each other or also b/c you *do*? For instance, I don't intuitively understand their decision making process or how they operate, but I can feel all of their emotions and reactions so I find it hard to not be affected by what they are feeling. And maybe it is that every person carries around all this baggage, but around most ppl it's easier to keep a polite distance, and around your duals the deeper responses that you want to suppress come to the surface? Do you think that if you learn to trust each other over time, this could be a really strong relationship, but if it never gets there encounters may be rockier than usual?

    For me specifically I'm compulsively a bit Fi. I say something that I think is completely normal; dual freaks out as if I were trying to hurt them. I had issues with my dual boss (turned out he had a crush on me, however), another ILE at work won't speak to me anymore; he won't even look at me when he holds the door open for me to walk through - I think he thinks I have a crush on him but I don't at all, although I think he's basically attractive; with a dual friend I think she feels criticized by me in emails when I'm actually trying to be perfect *for her* - so I tried to tone it down. But what really made an impression was interactions with a dual I used to date (someone who is stressed), who accused me of trying to emotionally manipulate him, several times, when I thought I was just expressing emotions. I am not saying I am not emotionally difficult sometimes. :/ But after feeling down about myself for a really long time I decided that being emotional, manipulative, is a regular stress response for me, that within boundaries that's "normal"; that logical types can definitely manipulate through logic and lying; and communicating emotions doesn't automatically equal manipulation.

    So, what do you think? Do you naturally have empathy for your dual?
    Last edited by lemontrees; 03-03-2019 at 11:23 PM.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    This is a very good question.

    I do have a lot of empathy for my duals. I also usually feel really good when I interact with them. However, I would not say that I understand them very well, and I really can't predict what they will like or dislike.

    Here is an example.
    A dual whom I don't know all that well recently got herself into a bad situation and needed money. I decided to help her, but I thought I should contribute anonymously so she wouldn't think that I was trying to get into her good graces, but since I realize that I have terrible instincts when it comes to duals, I asked another female dual what she thought I should do.
    She said, "Tell her who donated. She should know."
    I said, "Really? Are you sure?"
    "She should know," she repeated, then she looked at me like I was stupid.
    So obviously, her thought processes and mine are very, very different. It looks like my duals want things to be simple and clear, and I'm doing multiple scenario politics.

    Now, I realize that sharing functions makes life easier for people in a way that not having any shared functions does not. And I also realize that having strong functions where your dual has weak functions, and vice-versa, means that the two of you will place very different emphasis on every facet of life. This means that duals will almost never be found doing things in the same areas.

    However, this difference in the strength of shared functions is actually the best arrangement for long term relationships. With shared functions, you can appreciate something about everything your dual does to some degree. And with opposite strengths, you will always be learning from your dual.

    After my marriage broke up, I looked into what factors make for long term relationships. Aside from having mutual respect for each other, the largest factor is a willingness to always respond positively towards your partner. If they say, "Hey, look at that squirrel outside", then you need to be interested enough in that squirrel, or in what they are trying to tell you, to respond with interest about 85-90% of the time. If you tell your partner "Don't bother me, I'm busy playing on my phone", well, that relationship is in trouble.

    How do you maintain an interest level of 90% over time? You do it with common functions and complementary strengths. If you aren't learning and having fun with your partner over the years, then assuming you remain together, you will soon be acting like two prisoners who are sharing a cell and waiting out their sentences.

    @lemontrees, I would add that the ILE's whom I know in real life do not seem to be comfortable with one-on-one intimacy, and the SEI's whom I know are incredibly caring people. You might just have to keep turning those pages until you get an ILE who is mature enough to accept the care that you give.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-04-2019 at 03:52 AM.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    I don't know if this makes sense, but what drives me crazy and makes me really angry with my female SLI duals, is that they are not willing to go all the way, so to speak, often for obvious and perfectly reasonable reasons. To me it feels like a matter of unfulfilled possibilities, necessities even, a sense of biological injustice. Thing that do not bother us with other types, suddenly become life-and-death issues when it concerns our duals. And then we freak out over trivial matters.

    ETA: let me share an anecdote here. I had a female SLI (platonic) friend, who I occasionally went out with (meanwhile I was and still am in a relationship with an SEI woman). One time she cancelled a meeting in order to hang out with other people for a world championship soccer match. I wasn't to happy about that cancellation, but okay, I let it pass. FF a couple of years later, we make an appointment for a meeting two weeks in advance, she texts me one hour before meeting that some friends of her are over from Brasil, and she opts to meet them instead of me. I freak out, angry because she apparently prefers other people over me, realize this friendship is not working for me, so I send her an email message terminating the friendship and wishing her all the best. I got no response by email, but she does post the following video on facebook the next day, only to remove it after two days:

    Last edited by consentingadult; 03-04-2019 at 09:54 AM.
    The future of Socionics:
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Duals are very different from each other which can cause certain difficulties, this is what people mean by "dualization". But it's still a positive relationship with benefits you can't get elsewhere.

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    Dual-pairings have the least probability of pooping in each others pastures unlike mirrors, who are the most likely. Dual-partners usually have little opinion about each other's perspectives and are usually ambivalent about the other's priorities unless they impact directly. Living very closely or together is where conflict is a certainty regardless of type but domesticity spats should be removed from any analysis; this is where 'personal baggage' comes into the picture.

    Parings of p-types together and parings of j-types together have the highest probabilities of common goals although this isn't a certainty.

    Dual-pairs have the highest probability of peaceful coexistence while finding common goals but they still may not be able to live together due to baggage-loading.

    Peaceful coexistence has a predictable (perhaps boring) aspect that many may come to resent - especially those with short-attention spans.........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Xaiviay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    another ILE at work won't speak to me anymore; he won't even look at me when he holds the door open for me to walk through - I think he thinks I have a crush on him but I don't at all, although I think he's basically attractive;
    I haven't had as many problems as it sounds like you've had with duals, so far at least. But this part right here I can kind of relate to^ One ILE-Ne I worked with seemed to overestimate my interest in him when I was just being friendly. He was the most awkward ILE for me to interact with, although we still got along well enough. It just wasn't as smooth as it has been with regular and Ti-ILEs. Don't know if this would apply to your situation, though.

    In answer to your last question - yes I think it's pretty easy to have empathy for my dual, and it seems like most of them understand me pretty well, too Even with their Fi-PoLR. However, the thing about ILEs is...they really need all the understanding and tolerance that 4D (but devalued) has to give. You have to make sure they feel understood and heard, and that their perspective is considered, even when their ideas sound pretty darn unethical to you. You have to listen to them, validate their perspective, and read every underlying feeling, while simultaneously not asking too many probing questions. Let them open up to you in their own time, but don't rush things.

    Also, you have to be pretty darn open with your . It's like a weird balance of letting them see when they've upset you, without directly criticizing them for it

    AND, arguably, the most important IM for close relationships just happens to be ILE's PoLR. I read somewhere that the best way to grow your PoLR is first to admit that you suck at it, then to admit that it does have value, even if you still hate using it. Most of the ILE's I've dealt with have been pretty emotionally mature, it seems....it's more like they have this underlying attitude of "I'd really really like to make you happy somehow, and I'm a little lost here, so please please make it easy for me to understand what to do and don't give me a hard time if I make a mistake, I'm trying". rather than just...them not caring about my feelings.

    But if I met an ILE who was completely Fi-avoidant, wouldn't even acknowledge that ethical rules are remotely necessary, or that he struggles with understanding feelings....now that ILE might be reaaaalllly a pain to deal with If this is the case for you, I'd imagine this would make things really rough with them.

    Edit: Also this - Yes, I think the answer to all your questions here is yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    And maybe it is that every person carries around all this baggage, but around most ppl it's easier to keep a polite distance, and around your duals the deeper responses that you want to suppress come to the surface? Do you think that if you learn to trust each other over time, this could be a really strong relationship, but if it never gets there encounters may be rockier than usual?
    The most unnerving thing about duality ime, is how hard it is to hide anything from them. There's more intimacy there than usual. It can be quite unsettling if you're not...ready and wanting to be so close to them, I guess?

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I don't know if this makes sense, but what drives me crazy and makes me really angry with my female SLI duals, is that they are not willing to go all the way, so to speak, often for obvious and perfectly reasonable reasons. To me it feels like a matter of unfulfilled possibilities, necessities even, a sense of biological injustice. Thing that do not bother us with other types, suddenly become life-and-death issues when it concerns our duals. And then we freak out over trivial matters.

    ETA: let me share an anecdote here. I had a female SLI (platonic) friend, who I occasionally went out with (meanwhile I was and still am in a relationship with an SEI woman). One time she cancelled a meeting in order to hang out with other people for a world championship soccer match. I wasn't to happy about that cancellation, but okay, I let it pass. FF a couple of years later, we make an appointment for a meeting two weeks in advance, she texts me one hour before meeting that some friends of her are over from Brasil, and she opts to meet them instead of me. I freak out, angry because she apparently prefers other people over me, realize this friendship is not working for me, so I send her an email message terminating the friendship and wishing her all the best. I got no response by email, but she does post the following video on facebook the next day, only to remove it after two days:

    @consentingadult, yes, SLI’s can seem inert. I asked my SLI father why he married my mother, and he said “She forced me into it.”
    When I was dating my SLI ex-wife, I tried to undress her in her apartment and she picked me up (I outweighed her by 60 lbs) and she threw me into the hallway and slammed the door. A month later, we slept together.
    A few months after that, I asked her to marry me and she said, “No, we should just continue to see each other”, the way we had been doing. I told her that we were either going to get closer or we were going to break up. A couple weeks later, she agreed.
    With SLI’s, you have to give them a lot of warning. My father would never do anything at the last minute. And you have to be persistent.

    That was my mistake. I was persistent.

    Let me tell you, people tell you exactly who they are. You just have to listen and decide if that’s what you want and are willing to live with. Because they are not going to change.

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    duality is the best IR for friendship. check your type and types of your "duals"
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Kill4Me's Avatar
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    duals have a stronger connection....that doesn't always mean getting along but they are far more relaxed with each other than non-duals. no work has to be done to make the connection strong....it's already there. it's as if the chemistry is operating independently of the parties involved....

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Idk I get along pretty great with LSE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I don’t speak much but somehow ESTJs know exactly what I am thinking about and feeling so they say it in words. They put the words behind my feelings. Take a few nights ago I was so extremely exhausted that I just lay in bed and wanted to be away from all stimulation when my husband walks in and says “feeling exhausted babe. I know how you feel. I have felt that the last two days.”
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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