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Thread: ESTP after break up!

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    Default ESTP after break up!

    My boyfriend is an ESTP who suffered from depression in the past, he has previous trauma because couple of his friends died in a car accident when he was younger, and later on, one committed suicide.. he also suffers from insomnia.
    We met and I started fixing these things, he became happy and I made a schedule that helped with his insomnia (he used to sleep couple of hours every 3-4 days before we met), I helped him sleep daily for few hours..
    The problem was that when I get mad at him I say bad things, I'm an INTJ and most of the things I say has harsh truth on them. I know myself and I used to ask him for time to cool off, but he was so drunk with my love; he always said he can handle it, it's impossible for him to get mad at me, and all these things are going to be fixed when we get married.
    His family are control freaks, they didn't allow him to see me in the past month. That caused me to keep saying the harsh stuff I say; things like, "Your family controls you.." or "you're a talker and I never see actions..".
    After a while we had a stupid fight, it was misunderstanding, he kept apologizing and in the end he said he's not going to humiliate himself anymore.
    We solved that problem, and we became cool again. But couple of days later, another friend of him died in a car accident. He didn't tell me. We weren't seeing or talking with eachother because of his family, we only texted for about an hour a day. I noticed his mood is off a week later and he explained his friend died, and that his insomnia is back (I thought it's back because I was away)
    Couple of days after, he said since that fight we had, he doesn't feel he respects himself with me anymore. He doesn't love me anymore, and he's not happy in this relationship. And there's nothing and no one can change his mind.
    I don't believe you can stop loving someone this fast, the night before this he was talking about our wedding.
    I'm not sure of anything but the fact that he's depressed.
    I don't know what to do to him, I'm sure he's the one, and I'm the only person he ever loved. Please ESTP's tell me what you think.

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    I'm not ESTp, but I can tell you that love is a decision. You can decide Yes or No in a heartbeat.

    I'm assuming that when you said you are (MBTI) INTJ, you mean you are ILI. My statements below are based on that assumption. If you are LII, then things could be even more difficult.

    I would caution you to consider that, in a Socionics context, an ESTp has the Se that you are looking for, but they have Introverted Thinking where you are expecting Introverted Feeling. This means that you will be expecting them to be influenced by their deep feelings for you, but they will instead be influenced by their logic. In particular, they will be asking themselves if the relationship makes logical sense, rather than asking themselves how they feel about you.

    Furthermore, this works both ways. ESTp's will be looking for public displays of emotion and overt emotional support from their partners along with unquestioned loyalty and submission, and ILI's are Fe-PoLR, which means they hate public displays of affection. Plus, ILI's have their own ideas about loyalty in relationships.

    You might be able to patch things up, or you might not. Just remember, it takes two to tango. Both people have to want the relationship.

    I kind of understand where you are coming from. I married an SLI who moved out, and my Fi kept trying to patch things up for years, but it just didn't work.

    In the end, I came to realize that persistence is overrated.

    I hope you have better luck than I did.


    *EDIT*
    I'd like to add two things. One, marriage "fixes" nothing, except it can slightly lower your taxes in some places. Two, when someone says that they've made a decision and nothing can change their minds, you should believe them.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-09-2019 at 07:24 PM.

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    "the night before this he was talking about our wedding"

    Ups and downs like this are normal for me @May Kaiba . I don't know what you should do in this case or if he's really an ESTP but that's the case for myself.

    The fact that his family doesn't let him see you seems problematic and like a bad sign to me, though. Just in general.

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    As an ESTP is it normal to you? To stop wanting someone overnight?!

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    Thank you for noting that he won't be influenced by his feelings towards me.
    Would you explain more about unquestioned submission?! It's not likely to ever happen, sometimes think my personality is stronger than his, I'm more independent and that's where he gets humiliated by what I say.
    Lastly, marriage might've fixed our problem. I never had anything against him, my source of anger has always been his family and how they control him. They won't live with us after we're married.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    when someone says that they've made a decision and nothing can change their minds, you should believe them.
    So you think nothing of this is related to his friend who just died and it's all due to depression?

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    Thank you for noting that he won't be influenced by his feelings towards me.
    Would you explain more about unquestioned submission?! It's not likely to ever happen, sometimes think my personality is stronger than his, I'm more independent and that's where he gets humiliated by what I say.
    Lastly, marriage might've fixed our problem. I never had anything against him, my source of anger has always been his family and how they control him. They won't live with us after we're married.
    ESTp's do not like to be dominated. They rebel against that. It takes someone with amazing diplomatic skills to constructively influence an ESTp without pissing them off, and in my experience, only IEI's have that kind of skill. ILI's are much more blunt and will just say straight out what they think regardless of the effect it might have on someone's feelings, which is fine for their SEE duals, but not so much for anyone else.

    Even if his family doesn't live with you, they will still be part of your lives. In any case, he might be struggling with issues related to trying to please his family, and that won't end until he resolves them, which might take years.

    It is possible that he has decided that you aren't able to help him in this important area, despite the fact that he likes your Ni and introversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    As an ESTP is it normal to you? To stop wanting someone overnight?!
    Sort of. I mostly meant that it's normal for us to just say shit without meaning it 100% sometimes. It's also normal for us to be unsure of our emotions and convictions.

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    I'm guessing his thought process:

    "She doesn't understand how much pressure my family is putting on me and how what she's saying and doing isn't helping the situation at all, even hurting it and making things worse for me and us.

    My family doesn't approve of how unpresentable and hermit-like my GF is, and I'm realizing that I don't like it either. I feel disrespected and hurt, and this is crossing my boundaries for treatment of me."

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    If I can't be diplomatic and he doesn't accept my blunt comments then I think this relationship wasn't going anywhere.
    He must've assumed I can't help, because all he did is shut me off.
    I honestly wanna stop feeling guilty that I found and amazing, honest guy, and I threw him away with the stupid stuff I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    So you think nothing of this is related to his friend who just died and it's all due to depression?
    That is really hard to tell. Having your friends die is a shock, and being depressed is a huge problem for anyone. It can cause a person to want to retreat from life so they can heal by themselves.

    Getting the right kind of support, or changing circumstances in a particular way, can help relieve depression, but getting married is not a guaranteed way to do this. I think that the best thing you could do is to believe him when he says he does or doesn't want to do something. It's just showing that you support him and his decisions, even if he has decided to not get married. Even if you really want to marry him.

    I once chased an IEI for a couple years. I told her that I wanted to sleep with her, and she said "That will never happen." I took it as a challenge, but I should have taken it as her intention. By not listening to her, I merely showed that I disrespected her feelings.

    I tend to believe that duality is the best relationship, but I haven't had that many dual relationships yet, so I could be totally wrong.
    I do believe that a person can be happy with any other type, if they are willing and able to make sufficient compromises. But not everyone is willing to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    If I can't be diplomatic and he doesn't accept my blunt comments then I think this relationship wasn't going anywhere.
    Can ILIs really talk about getting married and feel this way the next day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I'm guessing his thought process:

    "She doesn't understand how much pressure my family is putting on me and how what she's saying and doing isn't helping the situation at all, even hurting it and making things worse for me and us. ."
    And there's the pressure from the sudden death of his friend.
    Do you suggest that I try to show him I can help?! Or that I give him space and time to recover?!
    What would you want?!
    Do you ever look back after such a decision?

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    I honestly wanna stop feeling guilty that I found and amazing, honest guy, and I threw him away with the stupid stuff I said.
    I recommend going out and finding a hot SEE guy to smash. Bring your own condom tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    And there's the pressure from the sudden death of his friend.
    Do you suggest that I try to show him I can help?! Or that I give him space and time to recover?!
    What would you want?!
    Do you ever look back after such a decision?
    I would want you to be exactly as you are and to be as honest as possible. So that I can assess you properly and make a decision about the relationship according to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    If I can't be diplomatic and he doesn't accept my blunt comments then I think this relationship wasn't going anywhere.
    He must've assumed I can't help, because all he did is shut me off.
    I honestly wanna stop feeling guilty that I found and amazing, honest guy, and I threw him away with the stupid stuff I said.
    Everyone says stuff that sounds stupid to someone. The thing about duality is that the things your Dual says might sound stupid sometimes or puzzling but they usually don't hurt you. And vice versa.

    The problems of non-duals can be summed up in a phrase by Bob Dylan: "I just could not be what she wanted me to be."


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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    Thank you for noting that he won't be influenced by his feelings towards me.
    That is not a good sign. For either of you. IMO

    Love is about being influenced by feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Can ILIs really talk about getting married and feel this way the next day?
    I can't argue with that, I'm 26 and this is my first relationship, and the first time I think about marriage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    I can't argue with that, I'm 26 and this is my first relationship, and the first time I think about marriage.
    If you're really an ILI woman (and based on interacting with you here I think you are one) you in theory should have the least trouble finding a marriage partner, according to Socionix.

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    This is exactly what I noticed after he broke up with me, all he wants is for me to agree with anything he says without arguing..
    For example I told him since you feel you humiliate yourself, I'll do the same so you'd understand self respect doesn't exist when you love someone.
    He told me not to humiliate myself.
    When I insisted he got mad and said "Thanks for the respect"

    I'm trying to respect his decision, at the same time give him space because a part of me thinks he did this because he's depressed. Maybe with time I'll understand if his decision is final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    If you're really an ILI woman (and based on interacting with you here I think you are one) you in theory should have the least trouble finding a marriage partner, according to Socionix.
    It's the opposite. I never found someone able to understand or deal with me. I thought my boyfriend was able to do it.
    Plus I never get into relationship unless I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with that person. I don't find joy in wasting my time on a relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    This is exactly what I noticed after he broke up with me, all he wants is for me to agree with anything he says without arguing..
    "I can't argue with that" -- music to my ears!

    For example I told him since you feel you humiliate yourself, I'll do the same so you'd understand self respect doesn't exist when you love someone.
    I don't agree with that sentiment though I can see how ILI-SEE dyad might. I feel more that one should treat both themselves and their partners with respect. Not allowing yourself to be shown respect makes it difficult to return appropriate respect towards others.

    He told me not to humiliate myself.
    When I insisted he got mad and said "Thanks for the respect"
    The only way I can see him meaning this is sarcastically.

    I'm trying to respect his decision, at the same time give him space because a part of me thinks he did this because he's depressed. Maybe with time I'll understand if his decision is final.
    There we go. Even if you're unhappy with his decision, you need to be giving him respect as a person, for his feelings. It doesn't matter that you love him or not. Just as a person. I mean I guess Fe polr doesn't care about norms like this though sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    It's the opposite. I never found someone able to understand or deal with me. I thought my boyfriend was able to do it.
    Plus I never get into relationship unless I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with that person. I don't find joy in wasting my time on a relationship.
    You're also 26 give it time

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    Of course he said "Thanks for the respect" sarcastically.. But he made very weird requests, like "Let's meet and suicide and end all this."
    I can't just say yes and not argue, even in this request he said "again, thanks for the respect."

    And about respecting him as a person and accept his decision, in the end I can't force him to be with me. I'm just still not sure, whether to keep fighting or let go.

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    ^As I said before, it takes a special kind of diplomat to handle an SLE properly, and IME, only IEI's fit that description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    Of course he said "Thanks for the respect" sarcastically.. But he made very weird requests, like "Let's meet and suicide and end all this."
    I can't just say yes and not argue, even in this request he said "again, thanks for the respect."

    And about respecting him as a person and accept his decision, in the end I can't force him to be with me. I'm just still not sure, whether to keep fighting or let go.
    Lol

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    A real man (or adult in general) doesn't let their family control them to this extent. Unless you live in Soviet India, such a person isn't prepared to handle marriage.

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    What's the point of this relationship? Where are you going together?
    What do you like/dislike about that guy?
    Are the answers to the above questions enough to satify you into marriage? Are you putting your hopes into marriage changing him or the situation and would be disapointed if it didn't happen?

    You wrote "and I'm the only person he ever loved" doesn't mean you own him anything nor that you have to be his savior, you can't save him from his family anyway, only he can do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    What's the point of this relationship? Where are you going together?
    What do you like/dislike about that guy?
    Are the answers to the above questions enough to satify you into marriage? Are you putting your hopes into marriage changing him or the situation and would be disapointed if it didn't happen?
    .
    I don't understand whether you want me to answer those questions or just think about them. I love the guy and I never had anything against him as a person. He's three years younger than me, we have a clear plan that allows us to get married in few years.
    My point is that everytime we fought was because his controlling family didn't allow him to go out. It's been a month and that made me frustrated and started arguing a lot.
    But yes everything would've been hundred times better if we met or if his family wasn't there. He just can't see that, all he sees that I get mad a lot and he humiliates himself by apologizing and telling me he loves me so that I get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    I don't understand whether you want me to answer those questions or just think about them.
    This doesn't matter, it's more about whether you wish to answer.
    I love the guy and I never had anything against him as a person.
    Cool. People are not all good or bad, and I think it's worrisome to not be able to think of one thing we dislike about them, be it that they don't fold towels the way we like or whatever. It doesn't mean we have to go on internet bad mouthing them, it's about having a realistic view of a person.
    He's three years younger than me, we have a clear plan that allows us to get married in few years.
    Beyond marriage, where are you going?
    My point is that everytime we fought was because his controlling family didn't allow him to go out. It's been a month and that made me frustrated and started arguing a lot.
    Let's say his family suddenly becomes cool with all this, you will have fights over other things, it won't stop as humans get in conflict over stuff.
    But yes everything would've been hundred times better if we met or if his family wasn't there.
    That is what you think, there are no proof that it is true. Not seeing each other for a while can be a good thing for a couple.
    He just can't see that, all he sees that I get mad a lot and he humiliates himself by apologizing and telling me he loves me so that I get over it.
    Well, if's are nice and all, but are just that. His family is there, you didn't meet for a while. I think @sbbds once wrote she hates "what if" conversations, maybe it's the same for him.

    Beside not letting him see you, you have not mentioned an other way his family is controling, or maybe I missed it.

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    It's hard to give an objective opinion, but if he's emotionally in a bad place and you keep on kicking him, what do you expect? Sooner or later his self respect is going to kick in.
    This isn't even especially type related.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Think about did you felt happy together? According to what he says - you were not.
    In good loving relations people support the self-esteem in each other, while he claims about the opposite influence of your relations. It's doubtful to name as love what you had, as there was no deep friendship.

    Mb it's possibly to establish better relations between you. But it's also possibly to find other people with which to establish good relations may to be easier. It's your choice partly how much efforts you want to do. In case of IR - there are only 3 which I'd relate to good for romances: duality, semi-duality and activation. There are also other important factors, besides IR. So what to do in the concrete situation you should evaluate yourself.

    In case you'll reduce or will stop your communications, will stop to think about other one, - after several monthes the feelings will calm. You'll find other interesting people for loving relations. Such happens not rarely. You were not in a marriage, have no a household, kids, etc complications.

    P.S. INTJ is doubtful to make such themes. Your type is other more possibly. "ESTP" may to have other type too.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I think @sbbds once wrote she hates "what if" conversations, maybe it's the same for him.
    I don't remember talking about this here or with you exactly. But yes, I don't give hypotheticals very much salt unless there's direct evidence they will pan out as directed.

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    [QUOTE=May Kaiba;1321587]My boyfriend is an ESTP who suffered from depression in the past, he has previous trauma because couple of his friends died in a car accident when he was younger, and later on, one committed suicide.. he also suffers from insomnia.
    We met and I started fixing these things, he became happy and I made a schedule that helped with his insomnia (he used to sleep couple of hours every 3-4 days before we met), I helped him sleep daily for few hours.. (Suggestive Si)
    The problem was that when I get mad at him I say bad things, I'm an INTJ and most of the things I say has harsh truth on them. I know myself and I used to ask him for time to cool off, but he was so drunk with my love; he always said he can handle it, it's impossible for him to get mad at me (Weak Se), and all these things are going to be fixed when we get married.
    His family are control freaks, they didn't allow him to see me in the past month. That caused me to keep saying the harsh stuff I say; things like, "Your family controls you.." or "you're a talker and I never see actions..".(Weak Se)
    After a while we had a stupid fight, it was misunderstanding, he kept apologizing and in the end he said he's not going to humiliate himself anymore. (ENTp )

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    This doesn't matter, it's more about whether you wish to answer.
    Ok lemme answer then.
    What's the point of this relationship? I want us to be the best possible version of ourselves. Just because we had fucked up lives doesn't mean we don't deserve to be happy. I want us to be happy and I'm sure we had the happiest time of our lives together.
    What do you like?! He's a genius, gentle, honest, loyal.. Traits that before him I thought exist only in books.
    What I dislike?! His depression, his insomnia.. And after this breakup I hate his perspective, choosing to end it instead of trying to save the only thing that made him happy.. Whatever his reason is.
    Are you putting your hopes into marriage changing him or the situation and would be disapointed if it didn't happen? Not changing who he is, I want to change the insomnia, I was already helpful with that.. Sometimes I didn't get disappointed when I couldn't make him sleep, it's normal, but it's not like I made a big fuss.
    it's worrisome to not be able to think of one thing we dislike about them.
    I walked into this relationship knowing that nobody is perfect, I have to accept him as a package, I can't choose the good part and ignore the bad. I do hate his insomnia and depression, I never thought of them as a reason to end our relationship. I know I can handle him.
    Now I think that he didn't accept my package, the things I say when I'm mad were all in the context of "you don't care enough to try to see me." "Your family control you."

    you will have fights over other things
    I understand this, but when we're together the fights end in no time. It's not like when he's away and send me a text message "May I'm sorry and I love you." It just didn't sink in fast, and repeating it made him feel he humiliates himself (suddenly because before that it was fine and he never showed anything against it, the only time he did was the end of it.)
    you have not mentioned an other way his family is controling
    They do, it's just irrelevant to what's happening between us now. They're not preventing him from seeing me, they're preventing him from going out at all (his siblings too). Our country is going through some stuff and they're overreacting, saying they're afraid and so. Plus the cut the WiFi from the house for no reason.. They might decide to search their phones for no reason.. It's just not related to the issue we have that's why I didn't mention them.

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    did you felt happy together? According to what he says - you were not
    I'm sure he's not the type that pretends, and it's hard to fake feelings for six months.
    I wasn't happy in the last month due to the reasons I mentioned. Maybe he couldn't handle the frustrated me who kept arguing and nagging about meeting him all the time. Idk what people in relationship does. But yes I wasn't happy because I felt he wasn't trying.
    Maybe he couldn't maybe he didn't want to, who knows.

    You'll find other interesting people for loving relations.
    It's hard to believe in something like this. Before I met him I was sure I'll never find someone like him. I didn't spend my whole life single because I liked it. I don't like wasting my time in relationships with no future, and this is the first and only person I saw my future with.
    If there's something to be fixed I want to fix it. But yes I also know that it takes two to tango.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    I'm sure he's not the type that pretends, and it's hard to fake feelings for six months.
    I wasn't happy in the last month due to the reasons I mentioned. Maybe he couldn't handle the frustrated me who kept arguing and nagging about meeting him all the time. Idk what people in relationship does. But yes I wasn't happy because I felt he wasn't trying.
    Maybe he couldn't maybe he didn't want to, who knows.


    It's hard to believe in something like this. Before I met him I was sure I'll never find someone like him. I didn't spend my whole life single because I liked it. I don't like wasting my time in relationships with no future, and this is the first and only person I saw my future with.
    If there's something to be fixed I want to fix it. But yes I also know that it takes two to tango.
    If you want to try to fix things with him and grow together with him, maybe you should think about it and talk to him about it instead of asking internet strangers from a niche personality type forum for answers to your problem. If you are really going to survive together then you should be able to do it.

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    We're going to meet and talk, I need different pov's. I'm frying my head with this and I simply can't stop thinking about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by May Kaiba View Post
    . And after this breakup I hate his perspective, choosing to end it instead of trying to save the only thing that made him happy.. Whatever his reason is.
    .
    is the only thing he can do, Fi-Polr
    i have similar problem. i think he overused his Ti, why he look depressed. he want to help his friends. but don't know how to do it yet. ....but then that 4D-Te
    your ex is entp

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    Quote Originally Posted by karas View Post
    is the only thing he can do, Fi-Polr
    i have similar problem. i think he overused his Ti, why he look depressed. he want to help his friends. but don't know how to do it yet. ....but then that 4D-Te
    your ex is entp
    Ok say he's ENTP. What's your advice for me in this?!

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