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Thread: Misconceptions about EIEs/ENFjs

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    Luminous Lynx Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Default Misconceptions about EIEs/ENFjs

    More than just misconceptions, this is the side to EIE I don't see people really mentioning. I'm starting this thread on request of @silke @Myst @Cyber, any other Beta NFs struggling to deduce their type, or simply people seeking further clarity. Several may be generally known, but I imagine some will come as quite a surprise to many. Either way, feel free to add any of Your own!

    Highlights:


    "Distrustful of compliments.
    in company of strangers and unfamiliar people he can behave calmly and hold himself with dignity

    The EIE cannot find peace and serenity himself

    Often wavers and experiences doubt and hesitation, which makes it difficult for him to make important decisions

    Internally, the EIE is very contradictory. He is attuned to inconsistencies between what people say and what they do, conflicts and hypocrisy. Often interested in topics related to destiny, fate, and other mysterious phenomena.

    May choose the life of a recluse.

    Uncertainty, unpredictability, and constant changes of schedule have poor effect on his health

    EIE is often not sure of the durability of his relationships with other people. Thus he seeks a constant verbal or other kind of reassurance.

    His sore spot is the reliability of relations with people whom he trusts. Those who have once misled him he does not forgive

    Prefers to keep at a distance from people. Often will greatly lower his own worth in the eyes of others

    Has an innate feeling of own inferiority for which he compensates by demonstrative behaviors

    Another feature of behavior common to many EIEs is that they cannot work side-by-side with someone in front of others. They would rather give others all sorts of assignments and orders to send them to another place.

    Likes to isolate him/herself and in solitude reflect on the meaning of life, and the place and role of person within it.

    The belonging to this sociotype is most easily determined by the face and the manner of behavior. EIE's primary feature are sad, gentle-relaxed, languid eyes. This is true for the intuitive subtype.

    You do not always fit easily into the society and avoid unpleasant contact with uninteresting people

    You show lack of confidence and certainly in your tastes

    The inability to find an inner balance with yourself is characteristic of you

    Do not be as sensitive to compliments and evaluation of your appearance. Do not immediately assume wrongdoings.

    Try to trust people more and avoid thinking that they mean harm to you"
    Source: http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...ile_by_Gulenko

    Edit: I have no idea why I can't fix the quote formatting. Everytime I edit it it auto-generates shit. Oh well, it's just one line.
    Last edited by Memento Mori; 02-03-2019 at 11:53 PM.
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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    I actually see a ton of this applying to IEIs I've known well too. The point about needing to trust others more instead of assuming wrongdoing is paramount. They can unnecessarily lose many good relations due to this fearfulness many have.
    ~* astralsilky



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    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

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    Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    I actually see a ton of this applying to IEIs I've known well too. The point about needing to trust others more instead of assuming wrongdoing is paramount. They can unnecessarily lose many good relations due to this fearfulness many have.
    Anecdotally, my close, longtime IEI friend has fears about people that are unfounded. I see they are unfounded and try to encourage her to get over these feelings when they hamper her. I can interact with other people much, much more boldly than she ever will. I have a pretty good sense of when I’m in actual danger, and usually I am not.

    But I have “fears” about people, too.

    They’re not exactly fears, though. They are conclusions based on observation and experience. Having taken in what nastiness seemingly decent people are capable of, I can’t unsee what I see. However, I realize it mostly (not always) arises from ignorance and pain, rather than intent to harm, and try to act in good faith with people until I see that they won’t do the same for me.

    Meanwhile, the IEI friend retains what I think are some pretty naive ideas about human nature. She obviously processes specific instances of people being shits, but she doesn’t apply that knowledge in the same way I do. She seems to still think people are essentially trustworthy, and maybe this is why she’s so fearful. Since she doesn’t quite come to grips with reality, she doesn’t assess threats well, nor safety—so she honestly may not be very able to see what is endangering her, and that is dangerous.
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    Luminous Lynx Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Anecdotally, my close, longtime IEI friend has fears about people that are unfounded. I see they are unfounded and try to encourage her to get over these feelings when they hamper her. I can interact with other people much, much more boldly than she ever will. I have a pretty good sense of when I’m in actual danger, and usually I am not.

    But I have “fears” about people, too.

    They’re not exactly fears, though. They are conclusions based on observation and experience. Having taken in what nastiness seemingly decent people are capable of, I can’t unsee what I see. However, I realize it mostly (not always) arises from ignorance and pain, rather than intent to harm, and try to act in good faith with people until I see that they won’t do the same for me.

    Meanwhile, the IEI friend retains what I think are some pretty naive ideas about human nature. She obviously processes specific instances of people being shits, but she doesn’t apply that knowledge in the same way I do. She seems to still think people are essentially trustworthy, and maybe this is why she’s so fearful. Since she doesn’t quite come to grips with reality, she doesn’t assess threats well, nor safety—so she honestly may not be very able to see what is endangering her, and that is dangerous.

    IEIs do give off the vibe of being more in need of assistance in some capacity, they embody the Romance style dynamic moreso it seems, with SLE being the more 'pure' Aggressor compared to LSI as well. They seem to forgive people more readily (the literature reinforces this), and generally trust a bit easier. It seems obsession over trust/loyalty in Beta is more personified by the EIE/LSI Dyad. I also have a keen sense of what is to be taken as an actual threat, and what is just aimless speculation and paranoia in my/others minds. I wouldn't call myself fearful in the more visceral sense, I would call myself uncertain, which is more central to my 'anxieties'. Strong Ti+ reinforcement recenters me.
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


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    I think you guys are right to some extent.

    When I get stressed out or depressed I do feel like everybody is out to get me lol. It's funny because it contrasts with the fact that when I'm ok I trust my instincts when come to other people's disposition towards me. I don't even think twice and I'm usually right. I feel like there is point where the demonstrative function kicks in so hard that the valued creative function is just lost.

    Like I have a few EIE friends and my mom is EIE as well. And often when they feel down they just start worrying or getting mad about the most random things. Sometimes they would even make a story up or rearrange the course of the events. And I would just be like "well no I know what you are talking about but that's really not how it happened. You're being crazy."

    EIEs are also really good at making me snap out of my own craziness when I get started. Maybe mirrors can be useful when we have issues with the demonstrative function as they are really not fazed by it.

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    I mean...most of this is just Ni stuff. Definitely could apply to IEIs too.

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    What's the difference between this and the behavior of someone who has depression, paranoia, or anxiety?

    These in particular:
    The EIE cannot find peace and serenity himself

    Often wavers and experiences doubt and hesitation, which makes it difficult for him to make important decisions

    Internally, the EIE is very contradictory.

    May choose the life of a recluse.

    Uncertainty, unpredictability, and constant changes of schedule have poor effect on his health

    EIE is often not sure of the durability of his relationships with other people. Thus he seeks a constant verbal or other kind of reassurance.

    His sore spot is the reliability of relations with people whom he trusts. Those who have once misled him he does not forgive

    Prefers to keep at a distance from people. Often will greatly lower his own worth in the eyes of others

    Has an innate feeling of own inferiority for which he compensates by demonstrative behaviors

    Another feature of behavior common to many EIEs is that they cannot work side-by-side with someone in front of others. They would rather give others all sorts of assignments and orders to send them to another place.


    You do not always fit easily into the society and avoid unpleasant contact with uninteresting people

    You show lack of confidence and certainly in your tastes

    The inability to find an inner balance with yourself is characteristic of you

    Do not be as sensitive to compliments and evaluation of your appearance. Do not immediately assume wrongdoings.

    Try to trust people more and avoid thinking that they mean harm to you

    I'm just confused because I feel like these could throw off people's typings, like how I've been thrown off of mine.
    If this was actually mostly true then would that mean that depressed people~EIE or that EIE are constantly depressed?
    I do think that this has merit because parts of it were centered around Ni and a little Fe, but otherwise, I think that this is misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sullutac View Post
    What's the difference between this and the behavior of someone who has depression, paranoia, or anxiety?

    These in particular:
    The EIE cannot find peace and serenity himself

    Often wavers and experiences doubt and hesitation, which makes it difficult for him to make important decisions

    Internally, the EIE is very contradictory.

    May choose the life of a recluse.

    Uncertainty, unpredictability, and constant changes of schedule have poor effect on his health

    EIE is often not sure of the durability of his relationships with other people. Thus he seeks a constant verbal or other kind of reassurance.

    His sore spot is the reliability of relations with people whom he trusts. Those who have once misled him he does not forgive

    Prefers to keep at a distance from people. Often will greatly lower his own worth in the eyes of others

    Has an innate feeling of own inferiority for which he compensates by demonstrative behaviors

    Another feature of behavior common to many EIEs is that they cannot work side-by-side with someone in front of others. They would rather give others all sorts of assignments and orders to send them to another place.


    You do not always fit easily into the society and avoid unpleasant contact with uninteresting people

    You show lack of confidence and certainly in your tastes

    The inability to find an inner balance with yourself is characteristic of you

    Do not be as sensitive to compliments and evaluation of your appearance. Do not immediately assume wrongdoings.

    Try to trust people more and avoid thinking that they mean harm to you

    I'm just confused because I feel like these could throw off people's typings, like how I've been thrown off of mine.
    If this was actually mostly true then would that mean that depressed people~EIE or that EIE are constantly depressed?
    I do think that this has merit because parts of it were centered around Ni and a little Fe, but otherwise, I think that this is misleading.
    There are a lot of things here, but to take a few:

    "constant verbal or other kind of reassurance" - an SLI who is depressed will not generally need this, yet an Fe valuing type who is otherwise relatively healthy may.

    "thinking that they mean harm to you" - Ni valuers tend to be more suspicious of people / cynical in general.

    The one about giving orders is exaggerated, but types with low Se don't generally seek to have a position of power.

    In general Beta NFs may be more prone to certain emotional disorders like manic depression or schizophrenia, but most traits here are found also in healthy representatives too.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Anecdotally, my close, longtime IEI friend has fears about people that are unfounded. I see they are unfounded and try to encourage her to get over these feelings when they hamper her. I can interact with other people much, much more boldly than she ever will. I have a pretty good sense of when I’m in actual danger, and usually I am not.

    But I have “fears” about people, too.

    They’re not exactly fears, though. They are conclusions based on observation and experience. Having taken in what nastiness seemingly decent people are capable of, I can’t unsee what I see. However, I realize it mostly (not always) arises from ignorance and pain, rather than intent to harm, and try to act in good faith with people until I see that they won’t do the same for me.

    Meanwhile, the IEI friend retains what I think are some pretty naive ideas about human nature. She obviously processes specific instances of people being shits, but she doesn’t apply that knowledge in the same way I do. She seems to still think people are essentially trustworthy, and maybe this is why she’s so fearful. Since she doesn’t quite come to grips with reality, she doesn’t assess threats well, nor safety—so she honestly may not be very able to see what is endangering her, and that is dangerous.
    @Tim
    I see this in my IEI cousin as well. It manifests with unwillingness to share the simplest information with me. It's as though life's natural occurrences are not that natural or maybe possibly tools others can use to "expose her" in light of the information she gives away (?). To me it all seems so natural. She keeps a lot at her own breast.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    @Beautiful sky

    If I were writing about this particular IEI friend today, I would say she is over-interpreting others' behavior. Much or most of what they do or say seems salient to her. I pick out the things I think matter--they tend to pop up like signposts in others' communication.

    But I can relate to her problem because I get overwhelmed by sensory data, especially living in a city. I know people who are able to easily zero in on certain things in the environment and relegate most of what's happening to the background. I have learned from him them to better analyze my environment, but I have to work harder than they do at it.
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    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    I would like to know more misconceptions about the EIE. The thread seems to have deviated to debating which misconceptions belong to IEI and which belong to EIE.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
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