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Thread: Jumping to conclusion

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    Default Jumping to conclusion

    I am trying to type this person who has a pretty obvious EJ temperament. One thing I observed is this person seems to jump to conclusions a lot, at least from my POV. In their own words, “I just know”.

    For example:


    • They were once convinced someone was cheating and the reason was: “I once knew someone who acted like that and that person was cheating so this person must be too”, nevermind there were many circumstantial differences. It turned out to be false.


    • Became convinced their daughter was pregnant even though the daughter firmly assured them there was zero possibility of it. Of course it turned out she wasn’t.


    • Became convinced their neighbor was only trying to pry and gossip and would only bring bad luck when the neighbor brought over a Christmas gift and left it on the porch. Now the gossip part is possibly true but the bad luck part was because the last time the neighbor came to visit they brought cold to everyone so the neighbor is now forever labeled as bad luck.


    And after time after time their dearly held conclusions proven to be false, the person in question still always trusts their judgment and isn’t open to alternatives.

    Can someone help explain this tendency in socionics terms? I am not convinced it’s not type related. I am thinking it’s either Ni Polr or Si Polr due to the EJ temperament or Ne related but I am open to other explanations.

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    Forget about typing this person. They are a certifiable MENTAL, and if I were you I'd cut my interactions with them down to an absolute minimum -- the closer to zero the better.

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    The behavior sounds more like an LSE than an LIE, but that's just my impression. For the record, I tend to jump to conclusions a lot, but I rarely tell anyone about these leaps of intuition until I have more evidence. I spent a lot of time in workplaces where it was emphasized that you don't accuse someone of something without solid proof.

    The reason the person in question sounds more like an LSE than an LIE is because it sounds like they are attributing the characteristics of a person to those of someone else whom they place in the same group. I read that this is an Aristocratic trait, and therefore is either Beta or Delta.

    Of course, the person could be an ESE or an EIE, but my mind immediately went to the two EJ types I'm more familiar with.
    Or, they could just be nuts.

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    I view this kind of thing as more of a NF thing actually but maybe its like both EJ and NF.

    NT conclusions seem a bit less jumpy when they are more healthy but they are also more boring for this very reason. Like an ILE or LII telling some peer-reviewed factoid at a dinner table party.

    That would male LIE conclusions both jumpy and pretty accurate, meaning how they hustle and bustle businesses along.

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    This seems like PoLR behavior. Irrational and non-sensical beliefs without any rhyme or reason behind them. So this is likely an unhealthy LSE or ESE if I had to guess.
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    You're jumping to conclusion that it's type related lel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    You're jumping to conclusion that it's type related lel.
    I am open to the idea it might not be but I am not convinced at the moment.

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    Anyone who is very neurotic can be like that, but overall in socionics terms it's more likely to be bad intuition.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I don't think it's generally a good idea to say that someone is being close-minded, therefore he will always be close-minded, which is pretty much what Socionics is doing. That would be jumping to conclusions. There is always a possibility that he will suddenly have a change of heart, and gradually learn to be more open-minded, because he has learned that being open-minded is a better option than being close-minded or something like that.

    And there might even be a surprising reason for that, such as that it's a way to deal with an overwhelming and frightening world. Perhaps a person will start to relax his closed-mindedness once he realizes that it's safe to do so.

    And this seems to have more to do with thinking that one is right more than anything. You can't jump to conclusions without thinking that one is right and there is no alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    And this seems to have more to do with thinking that one is right more than anything. You can't jump to conclusions without thinking that one is right and there is no alternative.
    .

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    *Rational alternative that has been proposed, which is not just about expecting the past pattern to keep repeating itself.

    Expecting the past to repeat into the future is not rational, because the future is different from the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    I am trying to type this person who has a pretty obvious EJ temperament. One thing I observed is this person seems to jump to conclusions a lot, at least from my POV. In their own words, “I just know”.

    For example:


    • They were once convinced someone was cheating and the reason was: “I once knew someone who acted like that and that person was cheating so this person must be too”, nevermind there were many circumstantial differences. It turned out to be false.


    • Became convinced their daughter was pregnant even though the daughter firmly assured them there was zero possibility of it. Of course it turned out she wasn’t.


    • Became convinced their neighbor was only trying to pry and gossip and would only bring bad luck when the neighbor brought over a Christmas gift and left it on the porch. Now the gossip part is possibly true but the bad luck part was because the last time the neighbor came to visit they brought cold to everyone so the neighbor is now forever labeled as bad luck.


    And after time after time their dearly held conclusions proven to be false, the person in question still always trusts their judgment and isn’t open to alternatives.

    Can someone help explain this tendency in socionics terms? I am not convinced it’s not type related. I am thinking it’s either Ni Polr or Si Polr due to the EJ temperament or Ne related but I am open to other explanations.
    Nah, this is overboard Ni, most typically Ni mobilizing. They get convinced that they're seeing something hidden (typically something nefarious).

    The not being open to alternatives is the Ne vulnerable. The particular circumstances you describe sound more like Fi+Ni (making negative character judgments - "I know who you really are") so I'd say ESI > LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Nah, this is overboard Ni, most typically Ni mobilizing. They get convinced that they're seeing something hidden (typically something nefarious).

    The not being open to alternatives is the Ne vulnerable. The particular circumstances you describe sound more like Fi+Ni (making negative character judgments - "I know who you really are") so I'd say ESI > LSI.
    When I read it I was thinking, sounds like an E6 but not all 6s go extreme like this obviously. I have also seen it in 5w6 to a certain degree and people on drugs. I would want to rule out drugs first.

    I suppose the 6 suspiciousness comes from the motivation to feel secure. I also thought ESI due to the nature of the "knowing" seeming more ethical in nature. I was also reminded of @ End's chatbox rants for some reason. lol

    Sort of reminded me of a best friend I once had too. She was an ESI 6 and did this kind of thing. She was probably more on the neurotic side due to life circumstance that made her not trust most people (for good reasons) so she thought others had bad motives or were up to no good often. Sometimes her suspicions were justified and other times they weren't but there was no talking her out of it. In those cases she judged them guilty until proven innocent.

    In a pathological form it is PPD.

    Edit: Anyone can jump to conclusions of course but I am going by the context provided and jumped to a conclusion based on that. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Nah, this is overboard Ni, most typically Ni mobilizing. They get convinced that they're seeing something hidden (typically something nefarious).

    The not being open to alternatives is the Ne vulnerable. The particular circumstances you describe sound more like Fi+Ni (making negative character judgments - "I know who you really are") so I'd say ESI > LSI.
    Ne Polr would be my guess too if it wasn’t for the EJ temperament.

    I realize my OP made them sound neurotic but the person also has many admirable qualities - assertive, extremely hardworking, driven, courageous, loyal, kind, reliable, and if they promise something you can be 120% assured they will deliver. And definitely an extrovert.

    I thought about SEE but the person is almost all work and no play and I doubt any EP would be like that. I think 4D Te > 4D Se. Suppose LIE makes the most sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Ne Polr would be my guess too if it wasn’t for the EJ temperament.

    I realize my OP made them sound neurotic but the person also has many admirable qualities - assertive, extremely hardworking, driven, courageous, loyal, kind, reliable, and if they promise something you can be 120% assured they will deliver. And definitely an extrovert.

    I thought about SEE but the person is almost all work and no play and I doubt any EP would be like that. I think 4D Te > 4D Se. Suppose LIE makes the most sense.
    That description really sounds like an LSE over an LIE, especially the part about delivering on promises. An LIE's promises are really just intentions. You have to keep reminding an LIE that he's supposed to be delivering something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    When I read it I was thinking, sounds like an E6 but not all 6s go extreme like this obviously. I have also seen it in 5w6 to a certain degree and people on drugs. I would want to rule out drugs first.

    I suppose the 6 suspiciousness comes from the motivation to feel secure. I also thought ESI due to the nature of the "knowing" seeming more ethical in nature. I was also reminded of @ End's chatbox rants for some reason. lol

    Sort of reminded me of a best friend I once had too. She was an ESI 6 and did this kind of thing. She was probably more on the neurotic side due to life circumstance that made her not trust most people (for good reasons) so she thought others had bad motives or were up to no good often. Sometimes her suspicions were justified and other times they weren't but there was no talking her out of it. In those cases she judged them guilty until proven innocent.

    In a pathological form it is PPD.

    Edit: Anyone can jump to conclusions of course but I am going by the context provided and jumped to a conclusion based on that. lol
    Yep, type 6 for sure. I think 6w5. The person also said when younger they used to be very trusting and optimistic but life changed all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Ne Polr would be my guess too if it wasn’t for the EJ temperament.

    I realize my OP made them sound neurotic but the person also has many admirable qualities - assertive, extremely hardworking, driven, courageous, loyal, kind, reliable, and if they promise something you can be 120% assured they will deliver. And definitely an extrovert.

    I thought about SEE but the person is almost all work and no play and I doubt any EP would be like that.
    What does "EJ temperament" mean to you? The other qualities you listed sound consistent with ESI. Note that in socionics there are introverts who can appear extroverted, especially Se or Fe creatives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    What does "EJ temperament" mean to you? The other qualities you listed sound consistent with ESI. Note that in socionics there are introverts who can appear extroverted, especially Se or Fe creatives.
    I see EJ because the person is very restlessly hardworking from my POV, always on the go, trying to find some work to do. Starting, working on and finishing projects, one after another, never stops. Doesn’t leave projects unfinished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    I don't think it's generally a good idea to say that someone is being close-minded, therefore he will always be close-minded, which is pretty much what Socionics is doing. That would be jumping to conclusions. There is always a possibility that he will suddenly have a change of heart, and gradually learn to be more open-minded, because he has learned that being open-minded is a better option than being close-minded or something like that.

    And there might even be a surprising reason for that, such as that it's a way to deal with an overwhelming and frightening world. Perhaps a person will start to relax his closed-mindedness once he realizes that it's safe to do so.

    And this seems to have more to do with thinking that one is right more than anything. You can't jump to conclusions without thinking that one is right and there is no alternative.
    Is there a way to explain the bolded part in IE terms? Poor Ne?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Ne Polr would be my guess too if it wasn’t for the EJ temperament.

    I realize my OP made them sound neurotic but the person also has many admirable qualities - assertive, extremely hardworking, driven, courageous, loyal, kind, reliable, and if they promise something you can be 120% assured they will deliver. And definitely an extrovert.

    I thought about SEE but the person is almost all work and no play and I doubt any EP would be like that. I think 4D Te > 4D Se. Suppose LIE makes the most sense.
    I have an extremely hard time seeing a LIE being like that. It's kind of not their focus... SEE sounds a bit more likely...

    and to be honest LIEs are not always THAT reliable
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    I see EJ because the person is very restlessly hardworking from my POV, always on the go, trying to find some work to do. Starting, working on and finishing projects, one after another, never stops. Doesn’t leave projects unfinished.
    This could be related to J in general, I believe.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    I see EJ because the person is very restlessly hardworking from my POV, always on the go, trying to find some work to do. Starting, working on and finishing projects, one after another, never stops. Doesn’t leave projects unfinished.
    SEE is plausible

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    SEE is plausible
    agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Is there a way to explain the bolded part in IE terms? Poor Ne?
    Explanations are not based on any previous observational descriptions like IE, as it's not based on anything. It's more like an "imagination".

    For instance, the Newtonian explanation for gravity is "objects are attracted to each other via the Force". This was nothing more than a creative imagination of Newton. Someone else can easily come up with a different explanation for gravity. It was not based on any previous description or observation. This explanation has never existed before, and it doesn't even exist in nature. It was even wrong, so it's not even a fact.

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    it mb thinking issues not related to types much
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    I am trying to type this person who has a pretty obvious EJ temperament. One thing I observed is this person seems to jump to conclusions a lot, at least from my POV. In their own words, “I just know”.
    Could be some hidden processes they are picking up on that you arenot aware of. What do you think is making them draw such conclusions, using your own Fi here.

    For example:


    • They were once convinced someone was cheating and the reason was: “I once knew someone who acted like that and that person was cheating so this person must be too”, nevermind there were many circumstantial differences. It turned out to be false.
    Betrayal has a tendency to make a person hyper vigilant towards it again. Maybe some fear here? Maybe some guilt even? Why do you think they are this wauy to begin with?


    • Became convinced their daughter was pregnant even though the daughter firmly assured them there was zero possibility of it. Of course it turned out she wasn’t.
    Full on plain old ignorance and also some boundry issues. Parental concern gone overboard. Will cause disharmony down the road.


    • Became convinced their neighbor was only trying to pry and gossip and would only bring bad luck when the neighbor brought over a Christmas gift and left it on the porch. Now the gossip part is possibly true but the bad luck part was because the last time the neighbor came to visit they brought cold to everyone so the neighbor is now forever labeled as bad luck.
    again, past betrayal and hyper vigilence. Could be BOTH low Ne or high Ne. Also, some Fi issues here.

    And after time after time their dearly held conclusions proven to be false, the person in question still always trusts their judgment and isn’t open to alternatives.
    Not type related perse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Explanations are not based on any previous observational descriptions like IE, as it's not based on anything. It's more like an "imagination".

    For instance, the Newtonian explanation for gravity is "objects are attracted to each other via the Force". This was nothing more than a creative imagination of Newton. Someone else can easily come up with a different explanation for gravity. It was not based on any previous description or observation. This explanation has never existed before, and it doesn't even exist in nature. It was even wrong, so it's not even a fact.
    That sounds like Ni to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqen View Post
    Could be some hidden processes they are picking up on that you arenot aware of. What do you think is making them draw such conclusions, using your own Fi here.


    Betrayal has a tendency to make a person hyper vigilant towards it again. Maybe some fear here? Maybe some guilt even? Why do you think they are this wauy to begin with?


    Full on plain old ignorance and also some boundry issues. Parental concern gone overboard. Will cause disharmony down the road.


    again, past betrayal and hyper vigilence. Could be BOTH low Ne or high Ne. Also, some Fi issues here.


    Not type related perse.
    I don’t know and that’s why I find it hard to grasp. For example for the last example I would understand much better if the reason given is if someone is careless and inconsiderate enough to visit neighbors while having a bad cold it would mean they are prone to make decisions with unintended negative effects and therefore untrustworthy and “bad luck”. But I didn’t receive any solid reasoning and don’t understand how the conclusion was reached, unless that’s how strong Ni works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    That sounds like Ni to me.
    Ni sounds like a definition of "explanation"? lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Ni sounds like a definition of "explanation"? lol...
    What do you mean? Yes, the “creative imagination” of Newton sounds like Ni to me.

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