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Thread: IEI & achievement & productivity

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    Default IEI & achievement & productivity

    One of the major issues I have with typing as an IEI is that they're usually described as people who don't care too much about productivity, setting goals or achievement at work. I'm personally obsessed with how productive or unproductive I am and my whole sense of self worth depends on it. I set goals for myself to ensure growth and developing my skills, that could help me achieve success in my career. I like to organize my time to make sure I stay on track, I'll be productive and develop as a useful person who is ambitious. I make things like daily plans, to do lists and write down my achievements and further future goals to keep track of my failures and success and to motivate me to push myself harder to work.

    What are other IEI's experiences regarding productivity and work?
    4w3 7w6 1w9 so/sx
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    I think you’re IEE final, Freya. FWIW.

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    Hm. It really might not necessarily fit into the type schematic. I'm most possibly (although very fluctating in my belief of where i fit) SLI, and i only value the productivity of my own mind, or my internality. External productivity is only an occasional manifestation of that. My room is messy, my schedules are messy, my relationships are messy, the only clearings are in my reflections. Seems like you are quite different, valuing both internal and external productivity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    One of the major issues I have with typing as an IEI is that they're usually described as people who don't care too much about productivity, setting goals or achievement at work. I'm personally obsessed with how productive or unproductive I am and my whole sense of self worth depends on it. I set goals for myself to ensure growth and developing my skills, that could help me achieve success in my career. I like to organize my time to make sure I stay on track, I'll be productive and develop as a useful person who is ambitious. I make things like daily plans, to do lists and write down my achievements and further future goals to keep track of my failures and success and to motivate me to push myself harder to work.

    What are other IEI's experiences regarding productivity and work?
    Ne is goal focused. Ne is IEIs ignoring function which means they intentionally or not defer to others here than make a conscious effort like the diligent ones you describe.

    So maybe possibly perhaps reconsider Alpha or Delta.
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    One of the major issues I have with typing as an IEI is that they're usually described as people who don't care too much about productivity, setting goals or achievement at work. I'm personally obsessed with how productive or unproductive I am and my whole sense of self worth depends on it. I set goals for myself to ensure growth and developing my skills, that could help me achieve success in my career. I like to organize my time to make sure I stay on track, I'll be productive and develop as a useful person who is ambitious. I make things like daily plans, to do lists and write down my achievements and further future goals to keep track of my failures and success and to motivate me to push myself harder to work.

    What are other IEI's experiences regarding productivity and work?
    This sounds somewhat more like Se than Te, though arguably it involves both. The drive to achieve something and get things done is really more Se IMO.

    Some IEIs are more active about this than others, for example Alexander Grothendieck is an example of a highly productive IEI, he worked for something like 8 years straight on a mathematical theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This sounds somewhat more like Se than Te, though arguably it involves both. The drive to achieve something and get things done is really more Se IMO.

    Some IEIs are more active about this than others, for example Alexander Grothendieck is an example of a highly productive IEI, he worked for something like 8 years straight on a mathematical theory.
    I find the creative types who lean heavily on creative function are more go-getters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think you’re IEE final, Freya. FWIW.
    Nothing to worry, though. Most IEE's can still lead creative quasi-productive life.

    I think ignoring rears its ugly head in this thread.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    Ne is goal focused.
    How is Ne goal focused? If Ne is goal focused then why are Super Ego Ne's so accomplished and hard working? In this regard, is Se merely the momentum of achievement, Te merely the means of productivity/efficiency? Furthermore, why is Ni not goal oriented where Ne is? Are ILIs layabouts?
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


    Model A: ESI-Se -
    DCNH: Dominant

    Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    How is Ne goal focused? If Ne is goal focused then why are Super Ego Ne's so accomplished and hard working? In this regard, is Se merely the momentum of achievement, Te merely the means of productivity/efficiency? Furthermore, why is Ni not goal oriented where Ne is? Are ILIs layabouts?
    ILIs tend to keep most activity in their heads.

    I disagree with what you said about Ne superegos only because I haven't seen evidence of it yet. Se can just be keeping busy with physical activities a bit.

    Ni is process-oriented and rationally deductive and contemplative in an examination sort of way. "I wonder ..." is Ni.
    Last edited by vesstheastralsilky; 01-23-2019 at 07:09 PM.
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    ILIs tend to keep most activity in their heads.

    I disagree with what you said about Ne superegos only because I haven't seen evidence of it yet. Se can just be keeping busy with physical activities a bit.

    Ni is process-oriented and rationally deductive and contemplative in an examination sort of way. "I wonder ..." is Ni.
    As you say, but that doesn't address the actual core question. How/why is Ne the goal oriented function?
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


    Model A: ESI-Se -
    DCNH: Dominant

    Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So


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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    As you say, but that doesn't address the actual core question. How/why is Ne the goal oriented function?
    By definition in my understanding it is by default.

    Going beyond MBTI and socionics, true Ne is actually:

    Ruled by Pisces the mutable water sign which is extroverted/above the horizon as the 12th sign of the zodiac - it sees the overall picture/belief/concept/intuition/image/ideal and end of a matter, including submission to a higher goal or state of being.

    I realize there are many theorists with different including contradictory-from-each-other definitions out there.

    By contrast Ni is square aspect to Pisces and ruled by mutable air below horizon Gemini 3rd House intellectual details and focuses more on facets of comprehension over the big picture. It perceives time and incremental changes.

    This is what I have come to learn.
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    Going beyond MBTI and socionics, true Ne is actually:
    Oh, I see. Would've been helpful to provide this caveat in the first place, as, without a strong understanding of Astrology (mine is pretty basic) we can't know that this isn't pure conjecture. Also, given that Ne is a concept not derived of astrology "True Ne" (a concept of typology) is tenuous, but I get what You mean in essence, the 'form' that the concept of Ne attempts to approximate. In any case, cheers for the clarification.
    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."


    Model A: ESI-Se -
    DCNH: Dominant

    Enneagram: 1w2, 2w1, 6w7
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So


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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    Oh, I see. Would've been helpful to provide this caveat in the first place, as, without a strong understanding of Astrology (mine is pretty basic) we can't know that this isn't pure conjecture. Also, given that Ne is a concept not derived of astrology "True Ne" (a concept of typology) is tenuous, but I get what You mean in essence, the 'form' that the concept of Ne attempts to approximate. In any case, cheers for the clarification.
    The zodiac was intended to be a map of the human mind/experience before other systems came along. When Socionics contradictions within Socionics data emerged, it was helpful to get traditional to align things better.

    I have noticed that regardless of astrology, @Sol seems to have a similar functional understanding of definitions more like I do.
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqen View Post
    I find the creative types who lean heavily on creative function are more go-getters.
    For Grothendieck, he would have been relying on his mobilizing function (Ti).

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    Actually, now when I think of it, this doesn't need to be related to the enneagram at all. The fact that I'm driven, goal focused and tend to think about my productivity a lot is probably because of my strong 3 wing and it doesn't relate to Te or Se or any other function at all. I guess IEI 4w5s would be very different regarding this than 4w3s.
    4w3 7w6 1w9 so/sx
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    are you earning money with those lists and skills
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    Oh, I see. Would've been helpful to provide this caveat in the first place, as, without a strong understanding of Astrology (mine is pretty basic) we can't know that this isn't pure conjecture. Also, given that Ne is a concept not derived of astrology "True Ne" (a concept of typology) is tenuous, but I get what You mean in essence, the 'form' that the concept of Ne attempts to approximate. In any case, cheers for the clarification.
    "True Ne" *sigh* I am sure, astrologically speaking, people could find Ne in any chart if they wanted to bad enough and same of the other functions. I would not retype someone based on their chart. It is a matter of what you put the most focus on. Like I could see your chart easily belonging to an EIE. There are patterns that emerge in charts of people, with different dominant signs and planets, if you look at the whole chart and those could point to a specific type but... I am not really the one to go to for astrology. There are a couple people I know here that are very good at reading the full chart. Unfortunately they don't post much. The best I can do is intuition which is not always accurate even when I think it is. I get the essence of it but it takes more energy to put the details into my own words.

    I think of astrology as one of many tools that can be used to identify those living a very archetypal life. For others it will not make a bit of sense and they will be able to dispute their chart with incredible precision. For me it is most useful for the symbolism and archetypes that can help convey and clarify concepts in a very meaningful way, especially to those so inclined. It can also be used as a weapon against others when applied rigidly by those lacking a fundamental knowledge of the universal symbolism and how there is also personal symbolism that means nothing to anyone except to the individual.

    I would say Jung clearly was fascinated by it. He also had a transcendent perception of astrology that many astrologers fail to see, in his writings, even while they use him in a way to sell their own readings. There are some really good ones out there though who use it less rigidly. I got a reading by one who was very good. Here are some quotes from Jung:

    Astrology has actually nothing to do with the Stars but is the 5000 year old psychology of antiquity and the Middle Ages. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. 1, Page 56.

    Jung noted: “Astrologically the beginning of the next aeon, according to the starting point you select, falls between AD 2000 and 2200” (CW 9,2, §149, note 88). ~Liber Novus, Page 316, Footnote 274.

    So the first science was astrology. That was an attempt of man to establish a line of communication between the remotest objects and himself. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1496.

    Synchronous events are widely accepted in Chinese philosophy and are the basis of astrology. ~Carl Jung, Conversations with C.G. Jung, Page 51.

    the Creator God [takes] on an astromythological, or rather an astrological, character. He has become the sun, and thus finds a natural expression that transcends his moral division into a Heavenly Father and his counterpart the devil. ~Carl Jung; CW 5, Para 176.

    And it is a curious fact that, all over the earth wherever we find astrology, the stars have essentially the same meaning. ~Carl Jung, ETH, Page 225.

    Psychology did not suddenly spring into existence; one could say that it is as old as civilization itself. The ancient science of astrology, which has always appeared in the wake of culture all over the world, is a kind of psychology and alchemy is another unconscious form. ~Carl Jung, ETH Lecture I, Page 11.

    His [Jung’s] impatience was due not only to his temperament – astrologically he was a Leo – but also to his extreme sensitivity, which both enriched and burdened his life. ~Aniela Jaffe, Last Years, Pages 114-115.

    Astrology, like the collective unconscious with which psychology is concerned, consists of symbolic configurations: The “planets” are the gods, symbols of the powers of the unconscious. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Page 175.

    Astrology is not a mantic method but appears to be based on proton radiation (from the sun). ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 22-23.

    “Astrology” is another of those “random phenomena” wiped off the desk by the idol of the average, which everybody believes to be reality itself while it is a mere abstract. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 230-232.

    All the grapes of the same site produce about the same wine. This is the truth stated by astrology and experience since time immemorial. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 353-355.

    Sitting in the central mussel-shell, we are the “sons of the mother.” Hence the old astrological tradition says that our zodiacal sign is Virgo. However, there is no unanimity on this score, since the other version says that our sign is Taurus. It is a virile, creative sign, but earthly like Virgo. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 418-420

    The fact, however, is that our whole astrological determination of time does not correspond to any actual constellation in the heavens because the vernal equinox has long since moved out of Aries into Pisces and from the time of Hipparchus has been artificially set at 0° Aries. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Page 428-430.

    Consequently the correlations with the planetary houses are purely fictitious, and this rules out the possibility of a causal connection with the actual positions of the stars, so that the astrological determination of time is purely symbolic. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Page 428-430.

    Astrology differs very much from alchemy, as its historical literature consists merely of different methods of casting a horoscope and of interpretation, and not of philosophical texts as is the case in alchemy. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    Astrology is a naively projected psychology in which the different attitudes and temperaments of man are represented as gods and identified with planets and zodiacal constellations. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    The experiment [Astrology] is most suggestive to a versatile mind, unreliable in the hands of the unimaginative, and dangerous in the hands of a fool, as those intuitive methods always are. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    Astrological “truths” as statistical results are questionable or even unlikely. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    The [astrological] superstitious use (prediction of the future or statement of facts beyond psychological possibilities) is false. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    There is no psychological exposition of astrology yet, on account of the fact that the empirical foundation in the sense of a science has not yet been laid. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    Undoubtedly astrology today is flourishing as never before in the past, but it is still most unsatisfactorily explored despite very frequent use. It is an apt tool only when used intelligently. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. II, Pages 463-464

    The starry vault of heaven is in truth the open book of cosmic projection, in which are reflected the mythologems, i.e., the archetypes. In this vision astrology and alchemy, the two classical functionaries of the psychology of the collective unconscious, join hands. ~Carl Jung, CW 8, Page 195, Para 392.

    The great astrological periods do exist. Taurus and Gemini were prehistoric periods, we don’t know much about them. But Aries the Ram is closer; Alexander the Great was one of its manifestations. ~Carl Jung, C.G. Jung Speaking: Interviews and Encounters, Pages 410-423

    At breakfast he [Jung] spoke of astrology (one of his daughters is interested in it), and of a German book in which he is criticised for giving support to horoscopes. ~E.A. Bennet, Meetings with Jung, Page 91

    This man also asked C.G. if he believed in astrology because he had mentioned it; but, said C.G., it is not necessary to ‘believe’ in such concepts – he simply observes that they are sometimes relevant. ~E.A. Bennet, Meetings with Jung, Page 102

    And now we are coming to the end of the Pisces era, as was foretold nearly two thousand years ago by the Arabian astrologer Albumasar. The pre-Christian time was Aries. ~Carl Jung, Meetings with Jung, Page 302

    The fact that astrology nevertheless yields valid results proves that it is not the apparent positions of the stars which work, but rather the times which are measured or determined by arbitrarily named stellar positions. ~Carl Jung, Letters Vol. I, Pages 138-139

    “The stars of thine own fate lie in thy breast,” says Seni to Wallenstein—a dictum that should satisfy all astrologers if we knew even a little about the secrets of the heart. But for this, so far, men have had little understanding. Nor would I dare to assert that things are any better today. ~Carl Jung, CW 10, Para 9

    https://carljungdepthpsychologysite....ogy-anthology/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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