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Thread: "Mistyped" SX firsts

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    Default "Mistyped" SX firsts

    Do you think that typology may perhaps draw in quite a few SX firsts (due to their obsessive nature), or that perhaps SX firsts may be "mistyped"? I have not seen an actual frequency distribution for the different instincts, only heard from people that they think several people "mistype." Do you think that this is the case? Why, or why not? Are people less willing to be completely and totally honest and/or don't take typology so seriously - and so they may end up mistyping as SX firsts possibly? Or do you think these typology systems simply draw in a lot of SX firsts to begin with?

    What are your thoughts?

    There is a survey I recently did that got me thinking about this. Here are the results.

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    I think people will mistype in a Gaussian distribution. That is, most people will eventually be typed correctly and some people will be mis-typed forever for various reasons.

    As for the number of sx-firsts in your sample, remember that the people who are being sampled self-selected themselves. Selection bias will throw off surveys with the best of intentions.

    For example, one of the first election polls was completely wrong because the pollsters surveyed the voters by telephone, and overlooked the fact that only the fairly wealthy had phones then.

    Similarly, the pollsters were wrong about Trump's election because, even though they tried to control for all the variables they had encountered in the past, they didn't anticipate that Trump's base supporters are evangelists who don't go to church. In other words, they are anti-social fundamentalists who don't trust institutions. The pollster's problems stemmed from the fact that no previous candidate had the personality which appeals to these people, so they had never encountered this group before, and in any case, the group's members wouldn't answer a pollster honestly if they were at all able to lie to them.

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    I don't think more ppl is mistyped as sx than any other instinct if thats the case. Its the same for eneatype and socionics. I think there could be more ppl mistyped (by them or by others) in socionics than over enneagram and instincts simply because socionics theory is more complicated. Then, I think some ppl take much pride in their etype or instincts and that's why they care a lot if others are mistyped or not, but mb it's more a consequence of some personal struggle projected over others than something else.

    Ultimately, I think enneagram and instincts speaks more about weaknesses than strengths and its a personal path more than a social one, since it speaks over fears and motivations, and in this aspect others have actually little to say over what are your weaknesses or true motivations really are, especially if they don't even know you in person and have little idea about who you are or how your life is configured.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    I think most people are so-first, including on the internet, and that they may mistype as sp or sx.

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    It may be both - I can see how the sexual instinct might be preoccupied with matters of personality differences, in the attempt to understand the personality types that you feel the most chemistry with. It's definitely a motive for me, for what it's worth.

    According to some Enneagram articles, people often want to be Sx. The word brings up a 'sexy' connotation which may bias people.... Which it's not, it can just as easily make you unsexy and neurotic. Self-preservation can make someone 'sexy' by maintaining good health, and the Social instinct can help you present yourself and connect better with people in a way that makes you attractive.

    In a few years, if the enneagram still has a substantial following by then, the coolest instinct may very well be social or self-preservation, once people get sick of the sexual instinct trend.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Without actual stats on this I cannot say what the distribution would be

    I find assertions pulled out of thin air annoying (like many who claim SX firsts are definitely rare etc...even if that were the case, they can't really know for sure)

    And honestly I think my perception is highly biased towards whatever grabs my attention and I become totally immersed in it, without paying any attention to the rest of the world. Which is why I personally don't have a 'hunch' either for what the distribution really looks like.

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    Haikus silke's Avatar
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    I would agree with what was said at this Enneagram Institute workshop - link - and consider this being one source of sx overtyping:

    It was mentioned that many people who thought they were soc-last, later find out they are soc-middle or soc-first once they actually understand the instinct. Social instinct is not about "liking to be in groups" or liking to socialize.
    Not only because the Enneagram Institute is probably the most reliable source of information out there concerning the enneagram, holding various enneagram classes and workshops irl, but also because I've came across the same finding when I added up the stackings from my own typing list. I took the typings from this forum and several others sources and the results were close to what you'd expect for a random distribution of instincts - it was 29% for soc-last, 29% for sp-last, and 42% for sx-last while at random distribution you'd expect 1/3rd or 33% for each. There were no especially frequent or especially rare stackings, and no single instinct attracted to typology. On this forum there was a slight predominance of sx-last stackings. One reason for that could be that Aushra herself was 6w5 sp/so and socionics ITRs are in a way representative of an sx-last "head triad" attempt at understanding relationships (the primary typology of this forum is not really overflowing with sx).

    Why does SX get overtyped? There are many potential reasons for this. I think the main one is skewed representation of SX instinct as the instinct for relationships and bonding, which is a basic human need that everyone is looking for - we're social animals and our survival very much depends on creating and cultivating relationships. Another reason is the literal interpretation of SX as having to do with sex, which happens to be yet another basic human need. The third reason is the way that the SOC instinct is portrayed, as preferring groups to individuals, while almost everyone has one-to-one interactions in their daily life; it's impossible to be always interacting with others as with a group. With characterizations like these, whenever someone discovers the instinct theory, chances are high that they won't even consider themselves as being SX-last.

    I'd probably agree with the Enneagram Institute findings here once again that many of the mistypes are coming from the SOC-first stackings. In particular, the "darksider" subtype (link) of SO/SX has accentuated secondary SX instinct that can be easily confused for being their first, while the SO/SP stacking comes with descriptions that almost no one can identify with. The outcome is that both SO/SP's and SO/SX's are prone to mistyping, and SX-first stackings prove to be a lucrative alternative.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    I would agree with what was said at this Enneagram Institute workshop - link - and consider this being one source of sx overtyping:



    Not only because the Enneagram Institute is probably the most reliable source of information out there concerning the enneagram, holding various enneagram classes and workshops irl, but also because I've came across the same finding when I added up the stackings from my own typing list. I took the typings from this forum and several others sources and the results were close to what you'd expect for a random distribution of instincts - it was 29% for soc-last, 29% for sp-last, and 42% for sx-last while at random distribution you'd expect 1/3rd or 33% for each.
    Did you also have the stats for -first stackings? Like So-first, Sx-first, etc.

    There were no especially frequent or especially rare stackings, and no single instinct attracted to typology. On this forum there was a slight predominance of sx-last stackings. One reason for that could be that Aushra herself was 6w5 sp/so and socionics ITRs are in a way representative of an sx-last "head triad" attempt at understanding relationships (the primary typology of this forum is not really overflowing with sx).
    It may something that Adam pointed out (self-selection bias) maybe SX firsts just happened to respond to this specific survey
    Perhaps due to interest etc...idk.
    Not that I am saying there's no mistyping involved.

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    Many people initially want to identify themselves as this Variant, perhaps because they believe that this would mean that they are sexy or because they enjoy sex. Of course, sexiness is highly subjective, and there are "sexy" people in all three of the instinctual variants. If we wish to be one Variant rather than another, it is good to remember that the personality tends to interfere with and distort the dominant instinct. Thus, people of the Sexual Variant tend to have recurrent problems in the areas of intimate relationships. As with the other Variants, we need to see the way that the instinct plays out more broadly.
    Word.

    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-variants.html

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    I never wanted to identify with it for that reason, haha
    I identified with it because I had serious triggers around intimacy and romantic relationships - no other area of my life felt more painful than this. But I never, by myself, connected it to "sexuality." Then enneagram's "SX" did make sense...

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    Reading enneagram institute descriptions, I can see now that I do actually know ppl mistyped as sx first because they can't understand that others move according chemistry in their relations neither can respect that. I think a common idea about sx is that it equals intensity, such as having a strong, pushy or overbearing personality, without understanding that the source of such intensity in interactions is actually a result of personal chemistry (or lack of it) with others.

    The key element in Sexual types is an intense drive for stimulation and a constant awareness of the “chemistry” between themselves and others. Sexual types are immediately aware of the attraction, or lack thereof, between themselves and other people. The sexual type is constantly moving toward that sense of intense stimulation and juicy energy in their relationships and in their activities. They are the most “energized” of the three instinctual types, and tend to be more aggressive, competitive, charged, and emotionally intense than the Self-Pres or Social types. Sexual types need to have intense energetic charge in their primary relationships or else they remain unsatisfied. They enjoy being intensely involved—even merged—with others, and can become disenchanted with partners who are unable to meet their need for intense energetic union. Losing yourself in a “fusion” of being is the ideal here, and Sexual types are always looking for this state with others and with stimulating objects in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.

    As the description goes, seems like most of 9 especially with 8 wing, have a good chance of actually being sx first due their focus and need to merge with other.


    The social is very interesting:

    Social (aka “Adaptive”) Instinct

    Just as many people tend to misidentify themselves as Sexual types because they want one-on-one relationships, many people fail to recognize themselves as Social types because they get the (false) idea that this means always being involved in groups, meetings, and parties. If Self-Preservation types are interested in adjusting the environment to make themselves more secure and comfortable, Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in.Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world.
    Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.

    Apparently So first goes well with a more responsible social attitude than sp and sx first. Considering this could be that most of e1 are actually so first ppl mistyped as sx.

    Would be really interesting to see the actual correlation between enneagram types and instincts. In lack of better source, this seem a good point to start:

    https://fashionpassion.us/here-are-t...sonality-type/


    According this, as example, ISTJs with e1 and 6 show more frequency of sp/so and so/sp instinct, while ISTPs e5 and 9, have higher frequency of sx/sp stacking. INFx seem to have more or less equal chances for being sx/sp than having other stacking since they appear smoothly distributed,...etc (the rest of the types are in there).
    Last edited by Ragdoll Cat; 01-22-2019 at 04:36 PM.

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    Of course they are. I rarely meet any Sx firsts outside - I'm not that outgoing anymore but at uni I tried going to multiple places and the only occasions that stood out to me were the ones where I've met some Sx first women (and some male Sx first teachers). But of course not all of us can connect. I know for a fact that Heart type Sx women can look very dramatic, it's like they have this tantrum, they get very defensive about their emotions in a competitive, aggressive way (like trying to 1up my reason-based arguments with some scientific facts, showing that they're okay in that department).

    But the point I'm trying to make is that whenever I'm in a room with people, if there's an Sx first man or woman, we'd very quickly be... if not attracted to each other than we'd both be triggered to show our need for intimacy (like both of us sensing the other's "anxious-preoccupied" "desperation style"), we'd both feel our "energy" this zoning on the individual. At least for a short while we'd both see each other as potential 1-on-1 partners (not necessarily romantic).

    But most of the time I get dispersed, subtle attention from people and this is also what I feel from the forum members. Even if they indicate Sx-dom, they're still very calm, very easy going people. They may be cynical, sarcastic (contra-flow) or they may be louder (E8) but either way, we don't... clinch. Our gazes don't linger on each other just a bit longer...reciprocally. Soc types dismiss the other a lot quicker. Their attention is the group, thinking that responsibility is shared, that they'll probably find someone else to talk too. Don't want extended exclusive focus immediately. And even then the discussion with the Socials tend to be about something more removed.
    What socials do, however, is "depersonalization of self-perception." If there's a group full with Sx-dom indicators, they connivingly pass in to minimize being a stranger with disharmonic intents. That is, if they feel the former members got the theory wrong, they'd still be yes-men about it not to stall the group's functioning, to be able to make "friends" quickly. Both So/Sps and Sp/Sos are usually about security and political alliances, in that sense they are grounded, pragmatic (idealists). They treat the pretext/mission of a group as cultural capital or "dress code" (of these people playing the "typology game"). They are rarely serious about higher ideals, such as making the theory better or reinforcing people's honesty on the forum so as to allow Sxs navigate easier to find their partner. It's the civilizing/dignifying to ally to it but the leaders are responsible to hook them up with the heavens. After all this ultraconformity, not taking the group's older center head on, it becomes harder to break the mold, the idolatry of false gods (hence, Sx/Sp's role). No one would be willing to admit complicity, for that would result in massive cognitive dissonance. Such as when an old fart, called the current president of the U.S. got elected.

    "Partner" is not as much of a distinct thing, it's more variable, Sxs can wait for them to profit first from the "typology game" (social capital, resources) before they are willing to adjust the rules a bit to reality. Until then, Sx-doms may as well just settle down with a social type, expecting both to adapt to each others' needs (after all, healthy people stranded on an island aren't that picky, it's the same vagina, the same tits and the same millenial hairsplitting about 100% accurate personality matchmaking...).
    Sx-dom as self-label helps in masquerading innocence (by displaying an underprioritized social). It helps in suspending disbelief about one's purported transparency, (lack of ulterior motif, selfish interests, bodily wants), the pretextuality of collective utopia (civility telos, by being a team player one sacrifices their animalism for the greater good, to overcome itself)... We are demons aspiring to be angels and society is our performative mantra addressed to the heavens. Ecce transhumanism.
    Last edited by Neokortex; 01-22-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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    tl;dr: Yes, we are all social animals. Hence, social is the invisible instinct.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post

    I never wanted to identify with it for that reason, haha
    I identified with it because I had serious triggers around intimacy and romantic relationships - no other area of my life felt more painful than this. But I never, by myself, connected it to "sexuality." Then enneagram's "SX" did make sense...
    All this can be said about 4s in general. I am not suggesting you are not sx first since I don't know you but I wanted to point that out.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    All this can be said about 4s in general. I am not suggesting you are not sx first since I don't know you but I wanted to point that out.
    I suppose on the surface of it, but not really.

    Having talked to SX firsts anyway, they are the only ones who don't think I am over-reacting or something, haha. They are the only ones who "get me" (I was quite surprised, I had assumed there was something wrong with me). Most people throughout my life, I get the impression, have found my triggers 'a bit much' if you will. Also I don't have them with any other sort of relationship (friendships for instance are avoidant attachment to me).

    So no, I don't think all 4s necessarily struggle in the way I was meaning, sx seconds tend to have what looks like a more balanced approach to relationships, and they can also stay away from relationships or obsessions or whatever if they need to, while I can't and/or don't want to. They seem to have better 'self-control' if they need to step back from something (probably applies to 4s as well), while I have never really stepped back, I don't think. SX lasts seem to me to approach those intimate relationships in a very different way from me; to them perhaps it comes across as unnecessary.

    That is my experience anyway. "Serious triggers" may sound vague since I haven't gotten into details of that haha. I don't really want to though at the moment though, not publicly.

    I was referring to this, in the link @Blue shared, for context:
    Thus, people of the Sexual Variant tend to have recurrent problems in the areas of intimate relationships.
    Last edited by VenusRose; 01-22-2019 at 04:31 PM.

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    I don't know, I don't take the instincts that seriously; they are easy to get wrong and abuse and be too rigid about them. I do know that I try to connect deep with people on the internet, but I usually don't see too many trying to get the same level of depth. Everything feels surfacy, for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I suppose on the surface of it, but not really.

    Having talked to SX firsts anyway, they are the only ones who don't think I am over-reacting or something, haha. They are the only ones who "get me" (I was quite surprised, I had assumed there was something wrong with me). Most people throughout my life, I get the impression, have found my triggers 'a bit much' if you will. Also I don't have them with any other sort of relationship (friendships for instance are avoidant attachment to me).

    So no, I don't think all 4s necessarily struggle in the way I was meaning, sx seconds tend to have what looks like a more balanced approach to relationships, and they can also stay away from relationships or obsessions or whatever if they need to, while I can't and/or don't want to. SX lasts seem to me to approach those intimate relationships in a very different way from me; to them perhaps it comes across as unnecessary.

    That is my experience anyway. "Serious triggers" may sound vague since I haven't gotten into details of that haha. I don't really want to though at the moment though, not publicly.
    You have mentioned extenuating circumstances in other threads from what I remember too. I have seen social and self pres 4s with extenuating circumstances who can easily relate to what you are saying without actually saying it here. There is a 4 I know who no longer posts here who can relate and would never see it as overreacting. They self type sp/sx and I agree with their self type. You don't have to explain yourself. I don't post the reason why I self type sx/sp anymore in public because I don't feel I have to explain myself. Have you read Beatrice Chestnut's book? I have posted excerpts here but she goes pretty in depth on the 4 in general.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Velvet View Post
    I don't know, I don't take the instincts that seriously; they are easy to get wrong and abuse and be too rigid about them. I do know that I try to connect deep with people on the internet, but I usually don't see too many trying to get the same level of depth. Everything feels surfacy, for the most part.
    I remember posting an actual scientific article on the instincts in humans years ago here but I can't find it anymore. The whole instinct thing was based on other studies and got appropriated by enneagram then worked into the system.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You have mentioned extenuating circumstances in other threads from what I remember too. I have seen social and self pres 4s with extenuating circumstances who can easily relate to what you are saying without actually saying it here. There is a 4 I know who no longer posts here who can relate and would never see it as overreacting.
    *shrug* the other 4s I have known are SX 4s, so I don't have anything to compare to.
    I have been like this (what I have mentioned here) even before the recent extenuating circumstances. But I will refrain from commenting more since I don't know the details and this feels like I am going into the 4 unhealthy territory of "I am unique" lol.
    But I would imagine So and Sp first 4s would still match their stacking description at the end of the day, once you see all the pattern even with the extenuating circumstances. That is what would differentiate them.

    They self type sp/sx and I agree with their self type. You don't have to explain yourself. I don't post the reason why I self type sx/sp anymore in public because I don't feel I have to explain myself. Have you read Beatrice Chestnut's book? I have posted excerpts here but she goes pretty in depth on the 4 in general.
    I have seen her subtype descriptions if that is what you are referring to? Feel free to link me the excerpts if you would like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    *shrug* the other 4s I have known are SX 4s, so I don't have anything to compare to.
    I have been like this (what I have mentioned here) even before the recent extenuating circumstances. But I will refrain from commenting more since I don't know the details and this feels like I am going into the 4 unhealthy territory of "I am unique" lol.
    But I would imagine So and Sp first 4s would still match their stacking description at the end of the day, once you see all the pattern even with the extenuating circumstances. That is what would differentiate them.


    I have seen her subtype descriptions if that is what you are referring to? Feel free to link me the excerpts if you would like.
    I will pm you something.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    @Neokortex

    I am not saying your ideas are wrong per se; but I feel like you are twisting reality to what you would like it to be, ignoring things that don't fit it. IMO, it's best to relax and accept things the way they actually are. Just from my own experience anyway, it's upto you.

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    Idk, I think that the negative aspects of social often get focused on too much. The groups and cliques and the whole "ohhh ma gawwd, did you see what she was wearing?" kind of thing, ie the fashion you dislike thread lol, and the positive aspects of soc can get mistaken for sx rather than being acknowledged in their own right. At the same time the negative aspects of sx and what that really means don't get explored too often. I agree with @silke that The Enneagram Institute is a fantastic resource and quite reliable and those notes in her link are really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Idk, I think that the negative aspects of social often get focused on too much. The groups and cliques and the whole "ohhh ma gawwd, did you see what she was wearing?" kind of thing, ie the fashion you dislike thread lol, and the positive aspects of soc can get mistaken for sx rather than being acknowledged in their own right. At the same time the negative aspects of sx and what that really means don't get explored too often. I agree with @silke that The Enneagram Institute is a fantastic resource and quite reliable and those notes in her link are really good.
    I also consider the compulsive typing of celebs and making long typing lists of people you don't know as social. Even more so now that I have seen the newest videos by Russ. I am not talking about the casual typing of others since everyone here does that at some point. Most people I know who follow celebs and what is current with them do prioritize social instinct in some way. It is usually not their blindspot.

    Usual disclaimer, doesn't apply to all...

    Oh and I also like how Russ is evolving with age. lol I think I could learn a lot from him.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I also consider the compulsive typing of celebs and making long typing lists of people you don't know as social. Even more so now that I have seen the newest videos by Russ. I am not talking about the casual typing of others since everyone here does that at some point. Most people I know who follow celebs and what is current with them do prioritize social instinct in some way. It is usually not their blindspot.

    Usual disclaimer, doesn't apply to all...

    Oh and I also like how Russ is evolving with age. lol I think I could learn a lot from him.
    Yes, me too. I wrote down a couple of things from the video you shared that I found especially useful: What is the cost of what I've neglected, and Find things in my blindspot that I feel motivated to do and to continue to do.

    I actually have no idea what the cost has been to me, so that's something I especially want to explore. I think that could be illuminating if I really give it an honest look, and should help me with the second part as well. I think enneagram has so much to offer when used as the tool it's meant to be. And one very helpful thing about considering the cost of neglecting any of the instincts means that you have to start looking for their purpose and value in your own life, recognizing that none of them are of themselves bad or useless. They all have a place and a part to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    I took the typings from this forum and several others sources and the results were close to what you'd expect for a random distribution of instincts - it was 29% for soc-last, 29% for sp-last, and 42% for sx-last while at random distribution you'd expect 1/3rd or 33% for each.
    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    Did you also have the stats for -first stackings? Like So-first, Sx-first, etc.
    Yeah, out of curiosity I added ~30-40 typings for new members who joined this forum within the past 2 years and ran the numbers again.

    This time the stacking percentages are even closer to 33%.

    Syn-flow slightly predominates on this forum at 60:40 with the typings I've had, but still there wasn't a prevalence of sx-firsts.



    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    Having talked to SX firsts anyway, they are the only ones who don't think I am over-reacting or something, haha. They are the only ones who "get me" (I was quite surprised, I had assumed there was something wrong with me). Most people throughout my life, I get the impression, have found my triggers 'a bit much' if you will. Also I don't have them with any other sort of relationship (friendships for instance are avoidant attachment to me).
    LOL! I used to be surprised by these reactions from others, someone saying "calm down" "don't be so dramatic" "why are you so worked up" when I felt like I was simply expressing myself, until it 'clicked' together that this was a consequence of sx firstness that not everyone out there could relate to.

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    @silke ah ok, and you believe that to be accurate data? (you are using people's self-typings I am assuming?)

    Asking because generally I have encountered a lot of skepticism around people typing sx-first, even if the spread were to look like that ^ since I have heard a few people claim "sx last is the most common" etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    @Neokortex

    I am not saying your ideas are wrong per se; but I feel like you are twisting reality to what you would like it to be, ignoring things that don't fit it. IMO, it's best to relax and accept things the way they actually are. Just from my own experience anyway, it's upto you.
    [√1]I'm biased in that way but at the same time it helps noticing trends and with the head type sx/sp 6 and tertiary gut type, I do investigate the underbelly of these emotional/aesthetic trends/facades. That may annoy some who invest political/economic capital in these emotions and Images. Such as Sx heart types, emotional leaders. I agree that I should be more assertive with my emotions instead of criticizing (contra-flow/frustration bc of my emotional conformism) the hell out of these people but since there's no ultimate authority on typology theory (or on the absoluteness of any religion or political creed), opportunism roams and "the way [things] actually are" is up for grabs (until I get kicked out from the forum).[√2]Enneagram may not be the most explicit about what I wrote back there but if you want I can go through all the descriptions I've culled and use the Enneagram language to indicate how they also imply my understanding. Beyond personal experiences I've also been leaning on what Jon Haidt terms "the glauconian nature of human" (i.e. social connivance) in his The Righteous Mind. The latter is hard to prove but we all know that covert/pokerfaced cooperation/ complicity/corruption are as old as the species.[√3]

    Sx/Sos are also "players"
    because like socials, they also use the social primarily to derive resources and gain protection - I believe in @Bumblyjack's defense of this. They may piggyback on and front a group's certain (heart, head, gut) need, while using their charisma to assert their own particulars (e.g. make certain sexual styles or emotion types culturally acceptable, resurgent) but when their promises are not delivered by reality, they may take the common share of wealth of the members and jump ship (like politicians or businessmen do). Such leaders or people with higher status may have been/be here on the forum, indicating Sx-dom. People may have accepted their definition of it or the Sx-dom image to conform to and pass into the hierarchy. "Sx-dom," then, may have been colored by the connotation "I am passionate about mystical/spiritual insights because I am earnestly on the path of soul searching, inner enlightenment." It would mean chiming in with the mystical "vibe," being emotionally attune, sensitive to receive these "teachings."

    This "apprentice of Typology" is, of course just an online persona/avatar manifest in mystical and artistic imagery in forum (social) user's tumblr posts, as well as forum "porn" that they associate with instincts and types. Not all emotional intuitions are incorrect but they aren't impartial, either. This is a make-believe "magical/digital" practice that people hope would get them closer to discovering a valuable hidden self or capability. All the while, though, they slack in looking into the darker recesses of their precious soul (perhaps expecting the stern and honest feedback from the groupthink's shared responsibility). "Sx-dom" may be the dress code for the sect where people want to get rich or have sex with the members all the same but with "Sx-dom" mask showing membership and pure intent of "spiritual self-development"/"serving the higher goal of typology."

    [√1]
    Yeah, I put a bit of a religious flair in there, so that the heart type people on the forum could relate. I'm a social heart type as well and I admit to being complicit with/chameleoning of other groups' Image. Perhaps something to do with the naïveté of INFPs, I feel I can tune into grand national narratives, collective emotions. In this way I don't criticize the aesthetic and formalism that these emotions sediment into: the iconography of (folk) art, the shape of the sound of foreign language, the embelishments of their musical style, etc. Sx/Sps risk the social for their ideals more but there's at least some conformity that which keeps them with the tribe, until they notice the cracks and start wandering again (e.g. fellow volunteer who stayed on the side of Christian circles but also kept up his criticism of people for showing fake emotions. That doesn't bother me, I'm gullible about emotions but when they belie intent, that's a problem).

    [√2]
    Social types have, actually, been criticized in social psychology (e.g. Solomon Asch's conformity experiments, Stanley Milgram's authority obedience experiments; Stanford Prison experiment and if you want more, I can feed you more DD); in culture studies (Sigfried Kracauer's Mass Ornament); in literature (Huxley's Brave New World; Catch 22), in theatre (Imre Madách's The Tragedy of Man; Shakespeare's "All the world's a stage/and And all the men and women merely players" in As You Like It but it originates from way before); in film (Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956); The Truman Show (1998)); in painting (zoomorphism/theriocephaly) etc.

    [√3]
    Haidt cited modern views on evolution to how group cooperation (survival of groups, races) is, in the long run advantageous for the survival of the individual's genes. This can also lead to complacency but luckily, the species is not "eusocial." Even our bodies are the synergetic symbiosis of multiple species (hologenome theory, thus multilevel selection).
    Last edited by Neokortex; 01-23-2019 at 01:48 PM.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    I'm expecting no less than blowing some fuses w/ this DDDD

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    Oh, and whatever I write or criticize here enters the social discourse. By that I mean that the social types (sx/so, so/sp, etc.) constantly assimilate the perspective of the non-social types (and the next time around they will echo this very same statement). So if I say I don't have facebook because everybody lies on social media, the social types, in order to downplay their investment in the group of this forum, they'd also say "Ooooh, I've never really understood why these kiddies hang out so much on social media..." or "Oooh, these people typing celebrities are all social," not admitting that they had also been doing the same.

    Basically, my criticism of the socials is just cannon fodder for the social's performance at pretending they... didn't care (weren't invested). What others thought of them. Or what they did before in a stupider typology to please the group. They just create a new account and reenter with a supposedly "better," more up-to-date understanding. Now I'm seeing extroverts on YT pretending they were autistic... wtf
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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