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Thread: Why I dislike sugary manners?

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    Default Why I dislike sugary manners?

    Hello again

    I am curious: I dislike people that are a lot 'serving' and that make a lot of compliments or have a 'sugary' communication.
    I perceive them like manipulative, and people that fall in this kind of 'trap' like kind of... ingeneous.

    Is my preference to Fi that makes me like that?
    Because to be polite or following social norms to be gentle for me is totally fine... manipulate with emotions is kind of fastidious.

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    I think so. I don't like it either. It makes me feel like i'm supposed to put on an act to meet them where they are. Which is probably why it feels fake to me. Because it would be fake if I did it. But I think it's not fake to them.

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    I like sweet foods, but too much will rot your teeth and make you a fat fuck. Make sweet rare, but enjoy it occasionally.

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    I guess that -valuing people consider people that are people pleasing in community settings to be insincere or inauthentic.
    -people values authenticity higher than harmony in groups of people.

    -valuing people are not people pleasing all the time, they are focused on group or community values. If a person don't conform to these values they will tell you.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 01-17-2019 at 02:14 PM.

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    In most cases it’s a habit people just fall into, until they become aware about how it helps them get stuff from others. Then they use it consciously. I think any type can find it suspicious or extra.

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    Hmm, yeah, if you are successful with a habbit and get what you want without negative impact or consequences. Why dropping this habbit?
    Do I value Utilitarianism now?

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    Fe in terms of exaggerated emotional display of 'sweetness' - I think of showing a lot of Fe as giving consideration to the other person, reaching out to make sure they feel welcome and comfortable. Fe can be used insincerely for selfish gain, also, but it's not always that way. With most people, I would say it's usually not intended to manipulate for selfish gain. But as you probably know, there's always exceptions, and if you get a bad vibe from somebody, trust it.

    My two-cents as an Fe-user. You might be more an Fi-valuer judging by what you've wrote, yes. Fe is certainly not everyone's cup of tea.

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    The Yin and Yang of the Cognitive Functions (by C.G. Jung). Everything has a bright and a dark side.

    The bright side of is caring about the well-being of other people, the dark side is the manipulative use of for selfish purpose and self-interest reasons.

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    faggot
    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Shut the fuck up, dumbass.


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    I don't think those "fake emotion people" necessarily do it effortlessly, they had to learn how to use emotions to their advantage, just like everybody else. And at least that took effort, while you took no effort in developing such skills. You just wanted to stay the same and be "real" for the sake of it. I don't know if that's good or bad.

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    Fe role?

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    No, I don't like it either.

    but some ppl like sugary and they prefer other ppl who are sugary too.

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    People can act sugary up the wazoo, it’s fine with me so long as they don’t expect the same sugary actions from me bc it’s just not how I would act. I do feel like I’m spoiling the atmosphere by doing that but it’s whatever.

    Fake emotions can be done with good intentions and are not always inherently bad imo, but yeah trust your instincts.

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    Totally cultural and social economical. I've noticed many people of the upper classes/casts that are way too formal and way too "southern" in their approach to others as to belong or fit in.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Path View Post
    Hello again

    I am curious: I dislike people that are a lot 'serving' and that make a lot of compliments or have a 'sugary' communication.
    I perceive them like manipulative, and people that fall in this kind of 'trap' like kind of... ingeneous.

    Is my preference to Fi that makes me like that?
    Because to be polite or following social norms to be gentle for me is totally fine... manipulate with emotions is kind of fastidious.
    I don't really perceive them as manipulative necessarily though I can see why others might.

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    My sweetness is genuine. If somebody finds it 'fake' that is their problem not mine.

    Some people just have a natural sweetness to them. I guess, it's okay and fair to say 'I still don't like it, even if it's authentic.'

    But I don't think it's as fake/manipulative as people think, a lot of the time. It can be. You can also be very fake too though focusing too much on winter, when spring is coming.

    It's better than just depressingly masturbating over the heterosexual grimdarkness of the world 24/7. To me anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    My sweetness is genuine. If somebody finds it 'fake' that is their problem not mine.

    Some people just have a natural sweetness to them. I guess, it's okay and fair to say 'I still don't like it, even if it's authentic.'

    But I don't think it's as fake/manipulative as people think, a lot of the time. It can be. You can also be very fake too though focusing too much on winter, when spring is coming.

    It's better than just depressingly masturbating over the heterosexual grimdarkness of the world 24/7. To me anyway.
    My thoughts exactly. Get out of my head D:
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    maybe u r not used to receiving love
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

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    I like it, cuz it's such a contrast to how I am myself. Also, I've been lacking in that department in my life so when I get an oppertunity to I bask in it.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    I noticed base types doing this the most. And even sometimes XEE’s. Not all of them, and not all the time.

    I was in the car with my ESE mom a few weeks ago and she answered the phone. On the other end someone screamed,”HEYYYY GIIIRLLLFRIEND!” , and I just kind of cringed and thought, omg shoot me. And then my mother started getting into it, and then I was really annoyed, because not only do I rarely go anywhere with her, but she’s talking really loud on the phone like a valley girl to this woman for a long time (like half an hour) whose clearly bringing out this side of her. I’m sure she didn’t want to be rude, and hang up right away and she was just meeting this woman where she was at, but yeah, I was really annoyed. I’m supppsed to meet this woman in a few weeks at a shower and I’m kind of apprehensive and dreading it. I feel like a huge negative grouch admitting this I’ve seen other people do it and it didn’t annoy me as much. My grandma was sort of an animated EIE, but she didn’t annoy me. I also met a woman at a hospital that was a nurse, I think she was Southern, that seemed like Paula Deen, and ESE, and I really liked her. So I’d say, for me, it depends on the person and if they rub me the wrong way or not, or even what kind of mood I’m in. It does seem kind of fake sometimes. But it’s just different. I’m valuing.. So, this could be why.
    Last edited by aster; 01-19-2019 at 05:16 PM.
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    "a lot of compliments"

    may relate to Fe, while you may to have Fi value

    but not enough to be sure
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Fe leads tend to regularly act sugary sweet if they are female but this is in no way insincere. Fe is sensitive to harmony and disharmony. The reason some think it is insincere and fake is because they are projecting their own lack of reciprocation and misinterpreting the Fe lead who is genuinely service-oriented and caring.
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    Fe leads tend to regularly act sugary sweet if they are female but this is in no way insincere. Fe is sensitive to harmony and disharmony. The reason some think it is insincere and fake is because they are projecting their own lack of reciprocation and misinterpreting the Fe lead who is genuinely service-oriented and caring.
    I like this. It's deep yet easy to understand, unlike how in the past some ppl mistakenly thought Fi valuing was not liking when people tell you to 'smile more', or to behave in a way that was more superficially happy and upbeat. I didn't smile either much as a kid, and it always annoyed me if somebody tried to force me to be happy when I didn't want to. Nothing much to do with socionics as I just think people naturally don't like being told what to do lol. Well only thing is... I tend to be caring but not really all that service-oriented. Makes sense I guess as Fe is my 2nd in command, not my first. Both caring and service-oriented sounds like ESFjs hehe.

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    generally Fe quadras are less selfish than Fi quadras. like the old saying goes, if a Fi person feels like shit everyone around them will probably know about it, whereas a Fe valuing person generally would wanna hold back to not ruin the mood of the moment.

    the easiest way to give you an image of this is to compare Fi leads (enneagram 4s) to Fe leads (enneagram 2s). 2s overly want to please whereas 4s are overly self absorbed

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    Default Why I dislike sugary manners?

    What do you mean by “sugary” communication?
    Depending on who you talk to,
    I'm either deceptively deep
    or deceptively shallow.

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    I dislike it when it's that fake type of "human resources agency" sugariness--for example, someone pretending to be sweet and polite when they're about to fire someone, instead of just getting directly to the point.

    If it's genuine, it doesn't bother me as much. I think I'm generally good at telling the difference.

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    I only find this mildly annoying at its absolute worst. I'd take it over dealing with brazen assholes any day of the week.

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    I'm not sure exactly what sugary manners mean. No one likes a phony, but very few people want to spend time around very negative emotions either. Context is very important. It does hurt when I see someone who is obviously sad and I cannot seem to lift their mood. I want to. I know they are hurting and it hurts to see them hurt. Sometimes, when you try, it can have the opposite effect. There are people who like to genuinely share their feelings with other, negative or positive. I think this is a very human thing. It is the mentality that only the positive should be shared, or I share my emotions authentically(without regard for others) that seems like unbalanced approaches. The person who is genuinely angry and lashes out, needs someone to talk to and may need help. But there is a difference between a genuine angry response that may be justified, and someone who is just angry all the time and is unaware or apathetic to how it comes across and affects others.

    I don't mind sugary sweet people, honestly, unless they are using that to push a very simple minded agenda of conformity and stupidity. But, positive emotions, for their own sake, are very appealing and make people feel welcome and part of something larger than themselves. However, negative emotions seem unappealing by definition. Perhaps it is how we define what is considered positive and what is negative that matters hear. Much of this is influenced by our society. I think even realistic approaches to reality tend to be perceived as "negative" because it disturbs the happy little illusions people create for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I only find this mildly annoying at its absolute worst. I'd take it over dealing with brazen assholes any day of the week.
    ...Right! How could wording things in a nice way be a bad thing?
    Depending on who you talk to,
    I'm either deceptively deep
    or deceptively shallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Path View Post
    Hello again

    I am curious: I dislike people that are a lot 'serving' and that make a lot of compliments or have a 'sugary' communication.
    I perceive them like manipulative, and people that fall in this kind of 'trap' like kind of... ingeneous.

    Is my preference to Fi that makes me like that?
    Because to be polite or following social norms to be gentle for me is totally fine... manipulate with emotions is kind of fastidious.
    Yeah this does sound like a negative reaction to Fe. I tend to agree with you by the way.

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    I've had an ESE tell me "You know sometimes when I ask you how was your weekend, I couldn't really give a damn." Lol

    I appreciated him saying that, more than the "polite" asking of my weekend. It seems so pointless to me to ask a question you don't care to hear the answer to.

    I've also seen an SEI allow an old man to take a walk with her somewhere and be very kind and talkative with him, but whisper to me "I wish he wasn't with us, we'd get there much faster."

    I don't like crap like this. I don't like smile-in-the-front, frown-in-the-back behavior.

    I also don't like folks who want you to match their sugary behavior and energy. Especially cashiers. "How are you doing this evening?"*BIG SMILE* and they pause and wait for a response, like no I came here to buy food not tell you how I been doing this evening. That social pressure is annoying and exhausting. And you are seen as rude if you don't respond, but they aren't considered rude for being an inconvenience and making you uncomfortable. They are forcing a response out of you in a situation that does not require one.

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    Its just social lubricant, its not like you have to hang out with these people outside work.

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    I think at one point I would have felt the same. Regarding what a few people have been saying about insincerity, that gets on most people’s nerves — of anyone with a conscience, at least. But often politeness or friendliness, even if not really felt, can go a long way.

    Re cashiering and fakery, cashiers are made to act that way — which is disgusting.
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    I don't care to manipulate anyone and stay away from most people. If a friend of a friend, then I will be polite, but not "sugary." I don't compliment people unless I really mean it. That fakeness that some people exude is a turn off for me too, they sound like a recording.

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    I don't mind it at all as long as it's congruent with their character, actions and how they actually feel. So if someone is being polite to me and extra sweet and doesn't do anything bad to me, it doesn't bother me at all because that's most likely how they truly feel and if anything I actually appreciate it. However, if there's a disconnect and they seem to be acting passive aggressive, selfish, two faced or talking bad about me behind my back while putting on a sweet fake demeanor then that is when it starts to really get on my nerves.

    So I don't judge people positively or negatively because of their manners, to me that is just a neutral aspect of them that is neither good or bad. I judge people based on their actions and overall behavior towards me and other people alone, that is what truly matters because character is revealed in actions and not in manners that are a neutral factor. Also dealing with direct people that are open about who they are regardless of their character can be a good thing in that you don't need to guess their character, but if they're a toxic person then it can be stressful to deal with as a downside.
    Last edited by Raver; 05-17-2019 at 06:14 AM.
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    Idk both F types can be manipulative with feelings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Idk both F types can be manipulative with feelings
    Exactly, Fe users can pick up on the emotions others are giving off and manipulate that to some end and Fi users know how to close psychological distances and intimately know another person's perspective, to then manipulate that to some end. Both can be manipulative af, which in and of itself, is not necessarily "wrong."; one can be manipulated for "good" or "bad" reasons/goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    Exactly, Fe users can pick up on the emotions others are giving off and manipulate that to some end and Fi users know how to close psychological distances and intimately know another person's perspective, to then manipulate that to some end. Both can be manipulative af, which in and of itself, is not necessarily "wrong."; one can be manipulated for "good" or "bad" reasons/goals.
    Te types manipulate too and so does EVERY single type.
    I've heard one too many LSE who "pick" certain women for long term prospects and ignore the rest because of what they are looking for. They manipulate others feelings by acting like a helpless soul who needs love, tenderness, kindness.
    I've heard way too many LSE who manipulate for money and drugs because they store away their morals and compassion in the pursuit of a good time.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Te types manipulate too and so does EVERY single type.
    I've heard one too many LSE who "pick" certain women for long term prospects and ignore the rest because of what they are looking for. They manipulate others feelings by acting like a helpless soul who needs love, tenderness, kindness.
    I've heard way too many LSE who manipulate for money and drugs because they store away their morals and compassion in the pursuit of a good time.
    LSE acting like a helpless soul oh god u rlly need a reality check

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    LSE acting like a helpless soul oh god u rlly need a reality check
    Yes they act like a helpless endearing person to manipulate
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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