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Thread: Stackings and Misconceptions

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    Default Stackings and Misconceptions

    I was discussing the stacking portion of the recently-linked test with a friend and had some interesting realizations.

    Stackings are not related to strengths. They are about focusing on weaknesses.
    The enneagram itself is more about weaknesses and faults than is is about strengths.
    "Naranjo however presupposes all Enneagram types are pathologies, so to relate to any type suggests mental health issues."

    So an sx-first person would struggle with intimate relationships. This can include romantic relationships and/or close friendship. But it's an active struggle - something they focus on, not a passive "I'm just not good at that."
    An sx-last might be a very sexual person or have very close bonds with others, but it comes so easily that maintaining these relationships is basically effortless.

    An sp-first person could be neurotic about personal safety or well-being because it doesn't come naturally to them so they have to pay attention to get it right, whereas an sp-last may be naturally good at that sort of thing and can essentially ignore such things and still be fine.

    An so-first person might care more about how they're perceived by society though an so-last person could have higher social standing.


    So I am indeed sx/so. I focus on and struggle over close relationships. I rarely think about physical safety or well-being; that sort of awareness comes naturally to me, and I skip meals to talk to people because relationships are a higher priority and I can have a meal any ol' time.
    A common misconception is that sx equates to sex. I'm saying that even if that is the case to a degree, not only is it possible for an asexual to be sx-first, it may be more likely than for one to be sx-last.


    Another aspect I wondered about is whether stackings relate to how one would react to hardships. So an sp would close themselves off and focus on physical survival, an sx would push away acquaintances and cling to only the closest relationships, and an so would try to be around a lot of people to get through the situation.
    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Yes, although the one that is easy and you don't have to put any real effort into is your 2nd instinct from what I understand. It's like the fulcrum, the balancing point of the see-saw, always steady and doing its job without problem while the others can bounce around. The last is that thing you don't want to think about and wish nobody else cared about either because it sucks to have to think about it. And the first is your neurotic obsession lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Yes, although the one that is easy and you don't have to put any real effort into is your 2nd instinct from what I understand. It's like the fulcrum, the balancing point of the see-saw, always steady and doing its job without problem while the others can bounce around.
    In that case I would be sx/sp.
    Meaning I've gone through every possible option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    If you don't mind me asking, could you please elaborate on what you mean by "struggle over close relationships," DA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    The enneagram itself is more about weaknesses and faults than is about strengths.
    [SIZE=1]"Naranjo however presupposes all Enneagram types are pathologies, so to relate to any type suggests mental health issues."
    The situation is similar to Jung's types. More correctly to think them as strong and weak parts equally.
    It's accentuations. Some traits become good but in this process happens the degradation of opposing/suplementing traits. The better are strong traits, the worse become weak ones.

    The problems of weak regions mb tried to be fixed. For Jung's types there were some concrete ideas - to make the work and studing in weak regions, duality relations.
    Should be the ways for Enneagram types too.

    If to describe any opposing traits - the situation should be similar. A coin with two sides.
    This mb done with subtypes of E-types or anything else. Any strenght is the weakness. Dark side mb not evident and then needs to be found.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, could you please elaborate on what you mean by "struggle over close relationships," DA?
    Things like having trouble keeping them close rather than casual. Or wanting more from them than you get. Or being afraid of losing them even when there's a lack of evidence that would happen.

    Maybe the fear is related to stacking.
    Afraid of losing your health and safety? sp
    Afraid of losing your place in the community? so
    Afraid of losing your close relationships? sx

    But for myself, I've never been afraid of losing a romantic relationship. I think to me, those were more practical than intimate. So maybe of the sp category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Things like having trouble keeping them close rather than casual. Or wanting more from them than you get. Or being afraid of losing them even when there's a lack of evidence that would happen.

    Maybe the fear is related to stacking.
    Afraid of losing your health and safety? sp
    Afraid of losing your place in the community? so
    Afraid of losing your close relationships? sx

    But for myself, I've never been afraid of losing a romantic relationship. I think to me, those were more practical than intimate. So maybe of the sp category.
    It seems like sx is there but it may be either first or second depending on what exactly closeness means to you...
    and yeah, sx need not be just over romantic relationships, it can be over friendships too, as I have one sx first friend who feels like she approaches friendships like "people approach romantic relationships" and that it's very intense and she often feels unsure if she would find another friend who would want the same as she does.
    Do you relate to that, DA?
    Do you also feel like you may obsess over something specific - this sort of one-on-one feeling, like you are completely immersed in it? Does it happen to you with friendships? Like you zero in on one person and you just...want to be really, really close to them?
    Do you feel like you are trying to find 'that one thing' wrt to relationships...? Some sort of ideal that you maybe can't quite put into words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    So an sx-first person would struggle with intimate relationships. This can include romantic relationships and/or close friendship. But it's an active struggle - something they focus on, not a passive "I'm just not good at that."
    An sx-last might be a very sexual person or have very close bonds with others, but it comes so easily that maintaining these relationships is basically effortless.
    Or they may even try at times to ignore it... at least pretend that they don't have problems or they don't need a mate. Although, with intimate relations, basically, everybody has struggles. I guess for socials it's just more delayed, they tend not to focus too much on that and the problems will erupt only later. And yeah, Sx lasts, since the majority are Sx lasts, have a higher probability to be able to make it work with just the next colleague from the next project they will be assigned to. They blend in with groups and goals so the social "infrastructure" is always there to support intimate relations.
    An sp-first person could be neurotic about personal safety or well-being because it doesn't come naturally to them so they have to pay attention to get it right,
    Yea, they have a feeling like that inside of them. I mix it up with E9: they like comfort but they're afraid if they allow to indulge too much in it, they'd risk their health, resources, etc.
    whereas an sp-last may be naturally good at that sort of thing and can essentially ignore such things and still be fine.
    Nope! That's Sp secondary - or another way they put it is that the secondary instinct is "experimental," they fall back on it when problems show up, can negotiate with that but overall it is still a priority. However, there's still a difference between what ways it is a priority for Sx/Sp and So/Sp. For the former, it's more about self-health, for the latter it's more about the possible profit from social interactions. And So/Sx and Sx/So follow the So/Sp in that regard. They're less concerned about the resource aspect of Sp, since they can substitute it with So; however, with time you'll hear these people talk more and more about physical health as if it had been an actual concern for them, yet it is just a way they "fake it, so as to make it" to be mature. E.g. once a hippy girl told me how she appreciates me not drinking alcohol but I kept telling her that since society doesn't value that I'll have to start drinking and doing drugs and she was like "noooooo!! don't ever start" DD
    An so-first person might care more about how they're perceived by society though an so-last person could have higher social standing.
    Actually, even Sx/Sos and Sp/So care much about how they're perceived by society, the former because they use their So for their Sp. I'm So last and I have no social standing whatsoever. Both the previously mentioned are proactive in maintaining their social status, do their contributions, to be somebody in social community/public, etc. The difference is that Sp/So may be less compromising with health and hence may be a bit more outspoken about safety, risks, etc. And Sx/So would still be addicted to the social sphere, except:
    an sx would push away acquaintances and cling to only the closest relationships,
    when they get fed up with the whole thing. Actually, I have an ENTJ acquaintance who's really serious about his girlfriend, retreats to her. But in my case, both So and Sx are a problems/weaknesses. (yet Sx is also a strength in being able to read the chemistry between people, by not becoming intimidated by sexual forwardness) I think certain types of Sp/Sx are the ones, and I'm thinking now of the infamous Kevin Spacey, who could blend in more (not being firebrands) and pass off as social. They could have higher status (based on reputation, rather) but not as high as Sx/So. The difference between my "social struggle" and the So-doms' is that they're so good, they hide it. You don't see with the So doms' that they cared, that they tried hard to gain status in their group, although if one looked at their deeds, then it's obvious, from the moment they entered a group, the game was on. So-doms are more playful, chameleon-like, conniving, whereas I'm more "autistic," rigid, sincere, aggressive. I want "typology" (or insert any other type of group an Sx/Sp might think would) to help me find a mate, yet I can't circumvent the "social cause" aspect because the chameleon socials, as always, compromise so much that the theory (the definitions, rules, signifiers, culture) becomes co-opted, distorted. In a nutshell: the "types" are always scrambled and misrepresented.
    A common misconception is that sx equates to sex. I'm saying that even if that is the case to a degree, not only is it possible for an asexual to be sx-first, it may be more likely than for one to be sx-last.
    Are you, then, trying to fit in your asexuality with the requirements of Sx-dom?
    Last edited by Neokortex; 01-15-2019 at 11:39 AM.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Things like having trouble keeping them close rather than casual. Or wanting more from them than you get. Or being afraid of losing them even when there's a lack of evidence that would happen. [...]

    But for myself, I've never been afraid of losing a romantic relationship. I think to me, those were more practical than intimate. So maybe of the sp category.
    The latter sounds Sx second. The first sounds like a tertiary 6. You, as a leader type would like to keep people in your enterprise? You want to be the pivot of the "community," be the father of this "extended family?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I have one sx first friend who feels like she approaches friendships like "people approach romantic relationships" and that it's very intense and she often feels unsure if she would find another friend who would want the same as she does.
    Do you relate to that, DA?
    I honestly don't fathom how people approach romantic relationships, so that's like asking whether you squeeze waffles like other people squeeze plasmaloids.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    Do you also feel like you may obsess over something specific - this sort of one-on-one feeling, like you are completely immersed in it? Does it happen to you with friendships? Like you zero in on one person and you just...want to be really, really close to them?
    Do you feel like you are trying to find 'that one thing' wrt to relationships...? Some sort of ideal that you maybe can't quite put into words.
    Yeah, I zero in on people. Initially I don't think about being close to them. Then if I realize it's happening, it's like an excited baby clapping and saying, "more, more!" and crying when it stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Nope! That's Sp secondary
    Yeah, squark already cleared that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Are you, then, trying to fit in your asexuality with the requirements of Sx-dom?
    Eh, more like pre-counter those who would disagree with my being sx on that basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Things like having trouble keeping them close rather than casual. Or wanting more from them than you get. Or being afraid of losing them even when there's a lack of evidence that would happen. [...]

    But for myself, I've never been afraid of losing a romantic relationship. I think to me, those were more practical than intimate. So maybe of the sp category.
    The latter sounds Sx second. The first sounds like a tertiary 6. You, as a leader type would like to keep people in your enterprise? You want to be the pivot of the "community," be the father of this "extended family?"
    Huh? No.

    The latter I am saying is not related to sx because I've never had a romantic relationship based off emotional closeness. Just, "I like this person. They'd be acceptable to live with for the rest of my life, and we could have a mutually beneficial life together." Then they wanted to get mushy about it and I was like, "ew, no." and bored.

    I don't see myself as a leader type. If I end up as the pivot of a community, that's nice, but I don't seek it. And I don't want to be a father-figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    now idk who i am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I was discussing the stacking portion of the recently-linked test with a friend and had some interesting realizations.

    Stackings are not related to strengths. They are about focusing on weaknesses.
    The enneagram itself is more about weaknesses and faults than is is about strengths.
    "Naranjo however presupposes all Enneagram types are pathologies, so to relate to any type suggests mental health issues."
    First off, that test is terrible and has a horribly one-dimensional view of the Enneagram. It really shouldn't be taken seriously imo.

    So an sx-first person would struggle with intimate relationships. This can include romantic relationships and/or close friendship. But it's an active struggle - something they focus on, not a passive "I'm just not good at that."
    An sx-last might be a very sexual person or have very close bonds with others, but it comes so easily that maintaining these relationships is basically effortless.
    I agree with the first part, but not that sx-last would be a very sexual person/have close bonds, and I also wouldn't say it comes all that easy to them either. I've never known a sx-last to be the way you describe them. They're often the complete opposite of that.

    An sp-first person could be neurotic about personal safety or well-being because it doesn't come naturally to them so they have to pay attention to get it right, whereas an sp-last may be naturally good at that sort of thing and can essentially ignore such things and still be fine.
    Again, yes, we're neurotic in the first instinct, but I also think the "neuroticism" is more a manifestation of that hyper-awareness of it. A sp-first person will still have a greater awareness and innate knowledge (They're instincts, right?) of sp related concerns and be neurotic about it than a sp-last person. A sp-last person has to work on sp because it doesn't come naturally to them. They ignore it, not because they're naturally good at it, but because they just don't care about it, and if you don't care about it, how can you be neurotic in it? The way you formulate how the instinct appears in the last position seems counter-intuitive to me.

    An so-first person might care more about how they're perceived by society though an so-last person could have higher social standing.
    Yes, the so-first person will care, and it's possible so-last could have higher social standing, but I again think it's less likely because they in actuality won't care about it. They will shun wanting to have a higher social status, unlike so-firsts. Though, there are certainly cases where so-firsts will also shun having social status too, which may be more dependent on the specific type. For example, social 4s who choose to be outsiders.

    So I am indeed sx/so. I focus on and struggle over close relationships. I rarely think about physical safety or well-being; that sort of awareness comes naturally to me, and I skip meals to talk to people because relationships are a higher priority and I can have a meal any ol' time.
    This seems contradictory to me. You rarely think about sp but also say the awareness comes naturally to you. I think you're closer when you say relationships are your priority is what matters when it comes to determining your instinctual stacking, but I also think "relationships" isn't necessarily sx either. That seems to be a bit dependent on Fi definition of Socionics as seen below.

    Fi is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing. Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.
    A common misconception is that sx equates to sex. I'm saying that even if that is the case to a degree, not only is it possible for an asexual to be sx-first, it may be more likely than for one to be sx-last.
    Can you say more about this and how it appears? I don't think it equates to sex either, but it can certainly be a part of it, even in a metaphorical sense, if one is asexual or abstinent, for instance. In other words, "sexual" union with another, viewing things in "sexual" terms, not to be confused with a dirty mind here, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    So an sx-first person would struggle with intimate relationships. This can include romantic relationships and/or close friendship. But it's an active struggle - something they focus on, not a passive "I'm just not good at that."
    An sx-last might be a very sexual person or have very close bonds with others, but it comes so easily that maintaining these relationships is basically effortless.
    I agree with the first part, but not that sx-last would be a very sexual person/have close bonds, and I also wouldn't say it comes all that easy to them either. I've never known a sx-last to be the way you describe them. They're often the complete opposite of that.
    Yes. Again, squark already corrected me on that. I figured it wasn't necessary to edit the first post for something that's been said right below it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    An sp-first person could be neurotic about personal safety or well-being because it doesn't come naturally to them so they have to pay attention to get it right, whereas an sp-last may be naturally good at that sort of thing and can essentially ignore such things and still be fine.
    Again, yes, we're neurotic in the first instinct, but I also think the "neuroticism" is more a manifestation of that hyper-awareness of it. A sp-first person will still have a greater awareness and innate knowledge (They're instincts, right?) of sp related concerns and be neurotic about it than a sp-last person. A sp-last person has to work on sp because it doesn't come naturally to them. They ignore it, not because they're naturally good at it, but because they just don't care about it, and if you don't care about it, how can you be neurotic in it? The way you formulate how the instinct appears in the last position seems counter-intuitive to me.
    How does instinct imply knowledge? If anything, it suggests acting without knowledge. Gut rather than mind.
    Hm. I wonder whether the stackings could relate to heart-head-gut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Fi is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing. Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.
    So are you saying that the main misconception is in associating sx with Fi and so with Fe? I used to do the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    A common misconception is that sx equates to sex. I'm saying that even if that is the case to a degree, not only is it possible for an asexual to be sx-first, it may be more likely than for one to be sx-last.
    Can you say more about this and how it appears? I don't think it equates to sex either, but it can certainly be a part of it, even in a metaphorical sense, if one is asexual or abstinent, for instance. In other words, "sexual" union with another, viewing things in "sexual" terms, not to be confused with a dirty mind here, either.
    I'm saying that not thinking in terms of sexuality doesn't exempt one from being sx. That part of sx just wouldn't be part of their sx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I think it is important to consider SX within the context of how sexuality may operate in a type. Of course, doesn't have to only do with a romantic relationship, can also be just this general...energy.

    Anyways, Si/Ne types (I am sharing both Alpha and Delta since I feel like it could also overlap somewhat, what they are describing here):

    Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: IEE (ENFp) EII (INFj)

    These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendance to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.


    Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)


    If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.


    Childlike Types: ENTp (ILE) INTj (LII)


    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.


    Caregivers: ESE (ESFj) SEI (ISFp)


    These are those types who openly express their need to "protect" and care for their romantic interest. In conversation may often lend a sympathetic ear (which, depending on the person, may be interpreted as insincerity, but it's exactly what the Child-like type is looking for). They are looking for someone who will not only accept their paternal/maternal tendencies, but welcome and thrive on it.
    (X)

    Also the different "types" of love:

    Pragma (Te ego types)


    "I love that we are useful together." Pragmatic lovers have a notion of being of service which they perceive to be rational and realistic. "I show my love by being useful". While they may be sincere about being useful themselves it also translates to also having expectations in a partner and of the relationship. Appreciates partners with compatible views and emotional stability. These traits are advantageous from practical point of view and, for example, can make reaching common or individual goals of the partners easier.

    Storge (Fi ego types)


    Like mania, this is emotional type of love, but it is all about stability. The attention is focused on static aspects. It values loyalties, responsibilities, duties and entitlements which promote long term stablity. Storge is often defined as familial love. There is a love between siblings, spouses, cousins, parents and children, but also between a married couple, who promise to extend, build their relationship and form a new stable bond of kinship. Just like family members, friends connected by this type of bond hold each other in good esteem to the outside world.



    Philia (Ne ego types)


    This type of love may be described as "friendship which brings pleasure". Partner treats the other one as very close friend. Partners usually like to play together, share a hobby, have similar interests and views or generally enjoy each other's characters. Physical aspect is strongly subdued and less important then understanding of each others ideas and giving freedom.

    Eros (Si ego types)


    Physical love that focuses on sensory pleasures. The feeling is intensified by positive aestetic attributes of the partner. Attention is focused on visual beauty, shapes, fragerence but also pleasant touch between various parts of the body. Focuses on the body. May become addicted to the physical presence of the partner. Likes closeness, knows how to caress and provide gentle sensual relaxation.
    (X)

    Based on the preferred functions for Delta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Yes. Again, squark already corrected me on that. I figured it wasn't necessary to edit the first post for something that's been said right below it.
    Ok, I suppose I missed that you agreed with.

    How does instinct imply knowledge? If anything, it suggests acting without knowledge. Gut rather than mind.
    I guess it doesn't, but in my experience, sp-firsts are far more proficient at sp than I am being sp-last. They instinctively know how to manage sp in a way that I don't or care not to attend to, which isn't to say that they're always good at either.

    Hm. I wonder whether the stackings could relate to heart-head-gut.
    Idk but I have seen this proposed somewhere before.

    So are you saying that the main misconception is in associating sx with Fi and so with Fe? I used to do the latter.
    No, not exactly the main misconception, but I think people can misuse one for the other. I still have a hard time telling them apart tbh.

    I'm saying that not thinking in terms of sexuality doesn't exempt one from being sx. That part of sx just wouldn't be part of their sx.
    Sure, so if it wasn't, then what would they think about? I'm just curious how you would conceptualize sx without this, not saying if it's right or wrong. And perhaps besides relationships too, if that would be your answer. Basically if someone was completely cut-off from everyone, so that you couldn't foster any form of relationship, how would they show their instinct? It's still there. It doesn't go away, if it's instinctual.

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    Interesting thread, it's given me some food thought. It's made me open to the idea of possibly being sx/sp, but sp/sx is still the most likely. Anyways, the gist I am getting from this thread is this:

    1st instinct - Moderate strength/High neuroticism

    2nd instinct - High strength/Moderate neuroticism

    3rd instinct - Low strength/low neuroticism

    Feel free to correct me I'm wrong, but this is just how I'm interpreting the course of this thread.

    Personally, I think my so is weak and definitely my last instinct as I only start caring about it if it becomes negative in terms of having a bad reputation. If it's at neutral or positive then it's pretty much the same to me so neutral can mean having no social connections, but no negative ones either as a result. In terms of strength and neuroticism, I'm having more trouble deciphering my 1st and 2nd instinct as I think they are both relatively strong and I worry about them both, but the one I am stronger in and the one I worry about more is difficult to tell as it is highly situational.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Interesting thread, it's given me some food thought. It's made me open to the idea of possibly being sx/sp, but sp/sx is still the most likely. Anyways, the gist I am getting from this thread is this:

    1st instinct - Moderate strength/High neuroticism

    2nd instinct - High strength/Moderate neuroticism

    3rd instinct - Low strength/low neuroticism

    Feel free to correct me I'm wrong, but this is just how I'm interpreting the course of this thread.

    Personally, I think my so is weak and definitely my last instinct as I only start caring about it if it becomes negative in terms of having a bad reputation. If it's at neutral or positive then it's pretty much the same to me so neutral can mean having no social connections, but no negative ones either as a result. In terms of strength and neuroticism, I'm having more trouble deciphering my 1st and 2nd instinct as I think they are both relatively strong and I worry about them both, but the one I am stronger in and the one I worry about more is difficult to tell as it is highly situational.
    It's just my personal understanding of it, I am not an expert on it haha...
    but I feel like probably both first and and second would be "high strength." I think the thing is, all the instincts are very "strong" in that they are instincts, and those are things that people do feel like they need. Even though I have SP last, of course SP is still very important for me - at the very basic level it is about survival...
    If someone's life is in danger, for instance, SP will be activated regardless of where it is
    If someone is consistently bullied by his peers throughout school, the social instinct will take a huge hit regardless of where it is positioned.

    I feel like all the instincts are generally speaking, as human beings, things we need in order to feel healthy.

    But also, I feel like maybe the first is "high strength" as well because I am not sure I understand "moderate strength" for the first one. The neuroticism makes sense, going down the stacking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    It's just my personal understanding of it, I am not an expert on it haha...
    but I feel like probably both first and and second would be "high strength." I think the thing is, all the instincts are very "strong" in that they are instincts, and those are things that people do feel like they need. Even though I have SP last, of course SP is still very important for me - at the very basic level it is about survival...
    If someone's life is in danger, for instance, SP will be activated regardless of where it is
    If someone is consistently bullied by his peers throughout school, the social instinct will take a huge hit regardless of where it is positioned.

    I feel like all the instincts are generally speaking, as human beings, things we need in order to feel healthy.

    But also, I feel like maybe the first is "high strength" as well because I am not sure I understand "moderate strength" for the first one. The neuroticism makes sense, going down the stacking.
    You bring up good points. Maybe the first instinct is as strong as the second and the only difference is that we care more about the first. The last instinct despite being the weakest and caring about it the least, we still worry about if it becomes negative. I'd definitely care if my so was bad enough that it started affecting me negatively. You could change the first instinct to high strength and the last instinct to moderate neuroticism and it could possibly be correct. It is difficult to tell though, but perhaps we can reach a consensus on this matter with this thread eventually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Sure, so if it wasn't, then what would they think about? I'm just curious how you would conceptualize sx without this, not saying if it's right or wrong. And perhaps besides relationships too, if that would be your answer. Basically if someone was completely cut-off from everyone, so that you couldn't foster any form of relationship, how would they show their instinct? It's still there. It doesn't go away, if it's instinctual.
    Well, without the sexual aspect an sx would just hone in on their close relationships and give their attention to their best friends.
    For someone without close friends, they may focus on close family members.
    For someone with nobody, well, there's always a volleyball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    In agreement with OP:

    Instinct stack isn't about strength or ability, it is about attention.

    The last instinct is often referred to as the "blindspot" -> this is telling us that we are looking at areas of focus, where does our eye linger?

    One can be good at stuff from the last instinct - Sp lasts have needed to acquire important life skills to survive during harsh conditions just the same, for example - but skill does not refer to attention: it refers to practice and life experience. Area of attention can drive people to acquire skills in those areas, but this is not a definite. Avoidance, cowardice, etc, these are very common traits, something the Enneagram is very familiar with. The Social dominant person with Social Anxiety is a very good example that skill is not related to one's instinct.

    So, what do we pay attention to, what do our eyes see, what keeps us awake at night? Those questions would lead one closer to instinct than arbitrary accounts of ability.

    Some ideas:
    Social: being lonely, connections, family, relations, being understood, being seen, rejection by friends/family,...
    Self Preservation: being poor, being sick, being secure, managing resources, food, pragmatism (unrelated to Te),...
    Sexual: whether one is attractive (desirability), rejection by obsession, having the Other infect every aspect of your life,...

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    Self-preservation Instinct

    In balance:

    • Take care of your overall health and wellbeing
    • Focus on what keeps your life grounded and running: finances, home and car repairs, etc.
    • Cultivate a supportive and comfortable domestic life
    • Appreciate the basics: enjoying simplicity in life

    Out of balance:

    • Challenges with self-care: poor sleep or nutrition, ignore physical needs
    • Rigidity or procrastination around needs related to your body, home, or finances
    • Lack of financial abundance, or scarcity consciousness
    • Overly attached to routines, or lacking structure in life





    Sexual (or Attraction) Instinct

    In balance:

    • Aware of attraction: both of what we are attracted to and of our own power to attract
    • Feel vital and alive: open to new experiences, willing to take risks, learn new things, and explore your edge
    • Ability to immerse oneself deeply — to “merge” energetically with lovers, to spontaneously flow with eros and inspiration

    Out of balance:

    • Lose yourself in intimate relationships: difficulty with healthy attachment
    • Can become addicted to romance and excitement
    • Narcissistic display and/or shame
    • Obsessive tendencies or energetic deadness





    Social Instinct

    In balance:

    • Skilled at reading people and situations
    • Consistently create and maintain connections with intimates, friends, and colleagues
    • Participate in and contribute to your friendships, family, community, etc.

    Out of balance:

    • Overly concerned with the opinions of others — fear of social mistakes and loss of support
    • Excessive focus on others or lack of awareness of their needs
    • Over-committing or avoiding commitments
    • Social insecurity can lead us to avoid communicating or dominate the conversation to cover up feelings of inadequacy



    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I don't know... I think it would be a lot more clear if people put the theories and quoting theories to the backburner and instead they talked about themselves.
    It's like, people are hiding behind these abstractions. (there's too much superficial social vibe I'm getting here, less of an intimate, let's expose our inner secrets type of vibe)
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I don't know... I think it would be a lot more clear if people put the theories and quoting theories to the backburner and instead they talked about themselves.
    It's like, people are hiding behind these abstractions. (there's too much superficial social vibe I'm getting here, less of an intimate, let's expose our inner secrets type of vibe)
    I went a little into my personal experience in Venus' thread. Not much though as I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about.

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    I was going through my text messages a few days ago and noticed something they all had in common...they are all about sp stuff lol. Most of the things I focus on are either sp or soc, honestly. But soc stuff seems obvious enough to me to not be important enough to talk abt. I’ve said this before to my SO, but if I’m out of money and I’m out of food, or my health is bad, I get like...really depressed. I can go without the soc stuff for a while, but sp stuff, I start sinking into despair without it. As far as sx, I don’t see the need. I have my relationships with people and it’s easy for me to maintain them if we are around each other a lot or have a common goal. I get attached to people and I don’t like letting them go. It’s hard for me to imagine going about relationships in an sx way. It seems unstable to me. I’d feel like I’d have to be exciting for the person to want to stay with me, and that honestly seems like too much work, and it actually hurts my feelings a bit, thinking maybe they wouldn’t like me as a person/long term life long companion, and just see me as a fix. I couldn’t be in this type of relationship. I like more stability than that. But maybe I’m looking at sx all wrong? Maybe I’m just looking for sp in others to connect with?

    Oh, here’s some of the really interesting stuff I text my SO abt as examples of the very interesting sx last life of aster that I was talking abt:

    “Should I make chili on stove or crock pot”

    “Looks like we are getting snow tomorrow”
    “3-5 inches expected tomorrow”
    “I should have got more TP”
    “You got your insurance card in the mail”
    “They didn’t give me any dressing, those assholes”
    “Hey fix my Jeep lol”
    “It heats up faster”
    “Ok, I would like some roasted almonds and yogurt. Thanks lol”
    “I can spray it with a spray I have for smelly laundry if you want. It told me not to use softener on tag so I didn’t”
    “Maybe you should have brought extra socks and shoes too “
    “I bet, was just going to text you asking you how to fix water heater lol”
    “Well that’s awesome, we could probably get sams club discount too now that I think about it, I know my mom does”
    “Milk is a little low but we have enough”
    “I got my raspberry cake finally lol”
    “We are still here, prob go to grocery after we are done”
    “Want me to go to - and swing by to get -when we are done”
    “If you get home earlier, maybe we can watch a movie”
    “If I put chili in crock pot with meat already cooked, should I put it on high to cook the noodles in there?”
    “Kids and I are were thinking of going to go to library & then -, target for returns and kohl’s for kohl’s cash. It’s not busy in - is it?”
    “Starbucks is closed on Christmas lol”
    “Ask her if she intends on serving food lol”
    “I need a pop, what am I going to do”
    “Well at least it’s useful “
    “Nice organization “
    “I admire your skills”
    “But how long will it last”
    “We need to teach everyone to put stuff back where they belong”
    “Omg there is a mouse in one of the traps, I wonder if that’s what I was smelling”
    “It’s was behind that door “
    “I went to get broom and there it was, save me “

    lol...

    Anyway, I think I’m so/sp or sp/so. At this point, I can’t imagine myself being sp last... But this does make me think I’m sp first.
    Last edited by aster; 01-16-2019 at 03:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I don't know... I think it would be a lot more clear if people put the theories and quoting theories to the backburner and instead they talked about themselves.
    It's like, people are hiding behind these abstractions. (there's too much superficial social vibe I'm getting here, less of an intimate, let's expose our inner secrets type of vibe)
    Still a voyeur of the ever elusive (to you) sx instinct I see.

    I have given up enough of my secrets on this forum. I am passing the baton. Mine are in various threads and in various pm. We already had this conversation before.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Uhhh, where have you read this, OP? I thought the instincts were just what you focused on, not necessarily strengths OR weaknesses. Why would you be naturally good at what you don't put instinctual energy towards, anyways? It might happen on occasion, but I don't see how it could be a constant trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    So, what do we pay attention to, what do our eyes see, what keeps us awake at night? Those questions would lead one closer to instinct than arbitrary accounts of ability.

    Some ideas:
    Social: being lonely, connections, family, relations, being understood, being seen, rejection by friends/family,...
    Self Preservation: being poor, being sick, being secure, managing resources, food, pragmatism (unrelated to Te),...
    Sexual: whether one is attractive (desirability), rejection by obsession, having the Other infect every aspect of your life,...
    Well, based on the first part of your post I must be either sx/sp or sx/so.
    But what you described as so is what I had in mind for sx. Just that regular social interactions I can do. They can get tiresome, but I kinda like them, and they're not a problem. But they don't fix loneliness - they pause it.
    And being understood requires a deeper connection.
    The way I see it, being attractive is more an so thing than an sx thing. It helps one to fit in socially. (And I've always disregarded and even insulted popular styles.) The more closely people know you, the more forgiving they are of physical appearance.

    I have low neuroticism overall. I don't worry about my physical well-being, I'm not concerned about losing romantic interests, and I don't give much thought to my social standing, though it is nice to be generally well-liked. But I do get obsessive about my closest friendships. (Like being pleased at the thought of my closest male friend marrying someone who's not me, but scheming how to overthrow his best man if he picks someone other than me.) (Like spending time when I should be working plotting fun gifts to send my friends.) (Like crying when a close friend is too busy to spend time with me because I think that means our friendship is over.) (Like abandoning a casual friend I was chatting with when someone who outranks them messages me.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I don't know... I think it would be a lot more clear if people put the theories and quoting theories to the backburner and instead they talked about themselves.
    It's like, people are hiding behind these abstractions. (there's too much superficial social vibe I'm getting here, less of an intimate, let's expose our inner secrets type of vibe)
    That gets personal and I prefer to keep that to the chatbox where it eventually fades into the mist. But I tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Self-preservation Instinct

    In balance:

    • Take care of your overall health and wellbeing
    • Focus on what keeps your life grounded and running: finances, home and car repairs, etc.
    • Cultivate a supportive and comfortable domestic life
    • Appreciate the basics: enjoying simplicity in life

    Out of balance:

    • Challenges with self-care: poor sleep or nutrition, ignore physical needs
    • Rigidity or procrastination around needs related to your body, home, or finances
    • Lack of financial abundance, or scarcity consciousness
    • Overly attached to routines, or lacking structure in life
    Sorta more first than second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Sexual (or Attraction) Instinct

    In balance:

    • Aware of attraction: both of what we are attracted to and of our own power to attract
    • Feel vital and alive: open to new experiences, willing to take risks, learn new things, and explore your edge
    • Ability to immerse oneself deeply — to “merge” energetically with lovers, to spontaneously flow with eros and inspiration

    Out of balance:

    • Lose yourself in intimate relationships: difficulty with healthy attachment
    • Can become addicted to romance and excitement
    • Narcissistic display and/or shame
    • Obsessive tendencies or energetic deadness
    Neither and these sound stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Social Instinct

    In balance:

    • Skilled at reading people and situations
    • Consistently create and maintain connections with intimates, friends, and colleagues
    • Participate in and contribute to your friendships, family, community, etc.

    Out of balance:

    • Overly concerned with the opinions of others — fear of social mistakes and loss of support
    • Excessive focus on others or lack of awareness of their needs
    • Over-committing or avoiding commitments
    • Social insecurity can lead us to avoid communicating or dominate the conversation to cover up feelings of inadequacy
    I've concluded that this is a bad list.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I've concluded that this is a bad list.
    It may be but he helped come up with the instinct stackings to begin with.

    Of course anyone is free to make up their own system based on other people's work.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Well, if enneagram is about weaknesses, then I'm sx-first, 'cause I'm weak in that.
    But if sx is about attraction then I'm sx-last, 'cause I don't care about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I was chatting with @Luminous Lynx in chatbox and it got me thinking about all this so I am just going to put it here.

    The power of Pluto is attractive, almost irresistible. Almost unattainable. Fatal and deeply transforming, it represents the aspiration of the soul to rise from ashes, and turn its greatest fear into the greatest joys. As a volcano, deeply in the subconscious (“underworld”) it nurtures strong, flaming and dynamic forces which manage to bring to life all that is forgotten and deadened. And I will tell you another secret. There is no other planet that will more passionately, fanatically, courageously and determinedly seek the truth than Pluto, for he is the truth. But, the final truth, definite and for others still unclear, the one that is called death. The final one, that nonetheless carries the essence of life within it, which can only be truly understood by people who are blessed by this planet.

    And to accept death would mean, in the words of the greatest of all Scorpios, and a pure plutonian type, Fyodor Mickhaylovich (Dostoyevsky), to accept suffering, because “…a man loves life because he loves pain and fear.” It is only after destruction and fall, after the darkest nothingness, tragedy, devastation, fatal events that couldn’t have been foreseen or changed, that a man meets face to face with that furious strength that he carries within him from birth…and there are two paths.

    To be degraded in rage, alone and left, abandoned and macabre, without faith or hope, angry with everyone, he himself becomes demonically evil, in one word the avenger, that will destroy to the end his own but frequently also the life of others. Or to understand that everything is transient, just as existence itself and that all things in fact only change, the shape is different but the energy endures. It is alive and can not be spent, as an eternal element it renews Man, encourages him always when he is ready to make a radical move, revitalizes his strength, renews his will and only then brings peace. It is exactly that Plutonian jump into the challenge, the abyss, into the unexplored and deserted, into drama, restlessness, chaos and darkness that awakens in him the joy of Phoenix, that many will never understand since they have forgotten that in the beginning God created everything from the darkness.

    It would be ridiculous to talk about Pluto and not talk about sex, which is different from the archetypical Leo’s jubilant, seductive, luxurious, open sex, that blazes as lightning in a short passionate moment. Pluto’s insights on this field are different. He is slow, demanding, so entering into this relationship, it is as if you are floating in some inter-space between this and the other world, it is the experience of symbolic death, act of creation and destruction in one. Of pronounced eroticism, simultaneously dramatic and magical, the sex life of Pluto is always eventful, because they do not allow their sexual energy to fall under a certain level, often destructive and obsessive. Sometimes the strong libido and desire for dominance can force them to act manipulatively toward a partner, to be demanding; or the reverse situation happens in which someone else treats them in that way. Attaining true love is possible only through a lasting relationship and in no way through frequent and agressive partner changes, through which the person is rejecting any possibility of being committed for fear of rejection. For them a relationship with another person represents an irresistible force that transcends the boundaries of personality and leads to physical and transcendental experience.

    Regarding health, all Plutonian types are prone to diseases because no one can suppress their traumatic life experiences as deeply as they can. They bury inside them all of their emotional wounds, anger, fury, jealousy, shame, humiliation, envy…Maybe they will casually tell you that they have no problems…and they will truly believe and feel it is so, because they have pushed all, especially the biggest problems so deep inside them that the sun of truth will never independently even touch them. And while all of this is fermenting in their subconscious, they only wait for the event, person, moment, death that will force them to understand the impotence of their power, the weakness of their strength, the frustration of their energy and dig into the discarded aspects of their personality.

    Diseases, when they get them, are strong, breaking but short in duration because of their forceful vital energy and strong constitution and they get out of their sick bed much stronger and healthier than they were before. Their cold is never a light cough or just a cold, it’s a proper viral infection, the flu is not just flu – its pneumonia, and headaches are not transient and light, but black-out migraines that last incessantly for three days and more…Because Pluto is extreme! Their life is in danger many times, they attract danger as well as a mass of strange characters that can complicate their lives sooner or later. But that is what they want…when they are sinking, they sink slowly, a long time and deeply suggestively and fatalistically forcing their own body to overcome the boundaries of human endurance and strength and to heal itself.
    I started writing this earlier but then I stopped and got some stuff out of my system so now I am back to finish my thoughts. I am not going to edit what I had before even though I kind of want to.

    The number of people (of various socionics and enneagram types) who can relate to that quote would be interesting to me. I happen to have Pluto and Scorpio as dominants and self type sx/sp 4. I can relate to it rather well but of course not every aspect of it. I cannot relate to every enneagram teacher's description of type 4 or sx either.

    Not only that but you have people writing subjective descriptions of types based on themselves who never even read the basics of the enneagram system and definitely didn't study it. These get passed around as if they are some kind of fact about an enneagram type or instinct stacking just by people copy/pasting from one place to another. I have passed them on too without checking it out.

    Is sx really the death instinct as some writers say, sx/sp the phoenix rising from the ashes? In this world we are going to have to rise from the ashes of our lives eventually. Probably more than once. Time will catch up with us all (hear that 7s you can't avoid yourself forever?) and events that cannot be foreseen will happen. How you deal with these things will give an idea of what enneagram, instincts and socionics type is best fit.

    The quote is not to be read too literal and neither are the sx descriptions. So many things can factor into the expression of an instinct and E type. Reading all these brief descriptions and trying to apply a paragraph or two to a complex person is why people get confused. If you want to use enneagram as a tool, read the books and everything you can find on the type(s) you think you are and go from there. Find what really resonates on all levels. Your personal feelings really cannot be trusted so get feedback from different people you know well. Ask family and friends how you were as a child. They know things about you that people here do not and things you probably wouldn't even share here no matter how open you are. I noticed Russ is giving the same advice and he is a teacher who will NOT tell someone their type which makes total sense to me.

    Too many people use E type and instincts as a filler for their online profile and don't use it for self awareness. That is why you will see people with enneagram types that are contradictory to socionics types. This is no easy task.

    If you type sx first just because you are a romantic or want to be loved then consider other types too. Maybe the above will serve as a good example for the life of some sx 4 or even some sp 4s with strong sx. Sp/sx 4s are made out in some descriptions to be dauntless but I find them to be more self controlled and not as dependent on the spark an sx needs from something outside themselves. It can look like Se seeking but there are differences that emerge when you take in the whole instead of focusing on one statement here and there then basing your self or other people's typing around it. I have seen some of you around for years and still don't get a clear idea of what type you are or instincts you best fit.

    Sx 4s have an energy they do not contain as well as some of the other instincts. If you are a very healthy type then congrats maybe your instincts are more balanced and you might not see much of yourself in any of the descriptions. If you are very unhealthy you may not either.

    This stuff is so deeply personal so, if you can, find someone who knows the system well and will work with you to help you figure it out. Most people here are not going to put the energy or effort into it. A test probably won't help as much without the prerequisite understanding of the system but it is better than nothing and they are fun. You might have better luck in an enneagram group than on here since those who know the system well here come and go. Many have no desire to talk about it anymore but if someone helps type you have them explain why so that you know you are on the same page and they are not misunderstanding you.

    Even though others can help you find your type, if they understand the system, in the end it is up to you to apply it in the real world to see if it helps you grow in some way. Advice for other types can often be useful too but it doesn't usually have the same impact on me as the advice for sx 4s. It is ok to look at other types and not be sure. Years ago I wanted to be a 9 and didn't want to look at anything else. I thought 4s were lame, crybabies. They are so much more.

    People who make long enneagram lists of people they don't even know and throw out types without asking you questions then add the authoritative tone by saying "obvious" or "definite" are to be taken with a grain of salt since many of them will mistype for years and not bother to find out how it applies to them. Take what I say with a grain of salt too since I see the world through the veil of my base function and the instincts that drive me.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    squark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Well, based on the first part of your post I must be either sx/sp or sx/so.
    But what you described as so is what I had in mind for sx.
    . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    But I do get obsessive about my closest friendships. (Like . . .
    removed rest for privacy

    Just imo Abbie, what you described under your friendships I would consider as so rather than sx. You might end up coming to a different conclusion, but thought I'd put my 2c in.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Really, so is sx really that moronic and shallow?

    What do the Fi people say?

    LSE
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    . . . removed rest for privacy

    Just imo Abbie, what you described under your friendships I would consider as so rather than sx. You might end up coming to a different conclusion, but thought I'd put my 2c in.
    I thought social too but only going on what I know of Abbie. Her self presentation I suppose. She may not reveal the sx side of herself on the forum. She is a different E type and socionics type so I have to remind myself this is based on how I view other sx firsts and myself.

    It's like I can feel the magnetism with them even if I never speak to them. Even if they never speak a word to me either. It is not a physical thing. It is energy. They can look physically repulsive and I wouldn't go near them with a ten foot pole yet I see it.

    I have the added bias of sx 4 and fighting the desire to be unique, which isn't too hard anymore. I only really offer some of my own experiences one on one these days since I still believe that if I share to much I will alienate others. I basically spoon feed myself to people I think can't handle it. I was not always like that. It just comes with experience and I am pretty sure a lot of people have not lived a life similar enough to mine to relate. I feel I am more balanced with my instincts now which is a plus.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    She is a different E type and socionics type so I have to remind myself this is based on how I view other sx firsts and myself.

    I have the added bias of sx 4
    What are normal stacking matches for different E-types?
    4 may be the type that fits me the least.
    It seems that sx would be more likely to fit with 4, 6, or 7, so with 2 or 3...

    LSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Really, so is sx really that moronic and shallow?
    Well, speaking for myself, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    What do the Fi people say?
    They usually say No No No No No. Well, that's ESI's, in particular. EII's normally just tell jokes.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    They usually say No No No No No. Well, that's ESI's, in particular. EII's normally just tell jokes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Really, so is sx really that moronic and shallow?

    What do the Fi people say?
    I don't know what part you find moronic and shallow but sx is not shallow. Other factors can make people shallow.

    Did you mean this?

    They can look physically repulsive and I wouldn't go near them with a ten foot pole yet I see it.
    That was for emphasis. I don't really notice looks first. My friends have called some of my ex bfs ugly. Guess who had not go? Not my bf....

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    What are normal stacking matches for different E-types?
    4 may be the type that fits me the least.
    It seems that sx would be more likely to fit with 4, 6, or 7, so with 2 or 3...
    We are on a discord server together. I will send you all I have then you can read and decide where your best fit in the system is.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I don't know what part you find moronic and shallow
    Attraction and eros and mushy stuff like romance and merging with lovers.
    There are like four or five kinds of love and eros is the stupid one.

    LSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  39. #39
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Attraction and eros and mushy stuff like romance and merging with lovers.
    There are like four or five kinds of love and eros is the stupid one.
    Ah, ok.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  40. #40
    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    @Director Abbie

    On these forums perhaps I add slightly more blatant elements when I talk about SX, in order to make it more accessible. Otherwise I have always run into the difficulty of people thinking "it's social." So I bring in some things from the standard definition of SX within enneagram and add my own personal subjective views (Fi) as well.

    In real life however,
    Personally I have not talked about SX blatantly in terms or sex or whatever.
    What has usually happened is that I get hung up on whether someone "wants to be close to me" or not, and get frightened that maybe I am too much, and that I am repelling them. I have a lot of emotional pain/reactivity tied to this as well. For me it's romantic, yeah. But it doesn't necessarily have to manifest in romantic situations. It can be with friendships too, I think, though that is not the case for me. I think I have avoidant attachments to my friends.

    So yeah I find overly sexual description "meh" as well, so I understand where you are coming from when you say "moronic"

    IMO, Fi types will speak of their relationships in terms of closeness, bonding, etc. and when SX is there, it's more subtle, implied, due to the dislike of blatant SX behavior/descriptions/anything for infantile/caregivers.

    And so I brought in that description on purpose, where it states that LSEs and SLIs may live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. Can probably apply to I/Cs in general.

    Anyways, so yeah, I don't think SX has to be blatantly sexual, nor restricted just to romantic relationships.
    Last edited by VenusRose; 01-16-2019 at 08:51 PM.

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