Stackings and Misconceptions

[Samson]

In agreement with OP:

Instinct stack isn't about strength or ability, it is about attention.

The last instinct is often referred to as the "blindspot" -> this is telling us that we are looking at areas of focus, where does our eye linger?

One can be good at stuff from the last instinct - Sp lasts have needed to acquire important life skills to survive during harsh conditions just the same, for example - but skill does not refer to attention: it refers to practice and life experience. Area of attention can drive people to acquire skills in those areas, but this is not a definite. Avoidance, cowardice, etc, these are very common traits, something the Enneagram is very familiar with. The Social dominant person with Social Anxiety is a very good example that skill is not related to one's instinct.

So, what do we pay attention to, what do our eyes see, what keeps us awake at night? Those questions would lead one closer to instinct than arbitrary accounts of ability.

Some ideas:
Social: being lonely, connections, family, relations, being understood, being seen, rejection by friends/family,...
Self Preservation: being poor, being sick, being secure, managing resources, food, pragmatism (unrelated to Te),...
Sexual: whether one is attractive (desirability), rejection by obsession, having the Other infect every aspect of your life,...

[DirectorAbbie]

So, what do we pay attention to, what do our eyes see, what keeps us awake at night? Those questions would lead one closer to instinct than arbitrary accounts of ability.

Some ideas:
Social: being lonely, connections, family, relations, being understood, being seen, rejection by friends/family,...
Self Preservation: being poor, being sick, being secure, managing resources, food, pragmatism (unrelated to Te),...
Sexual: whether one is attractive (desirability), rejection by obsession, having the Other infect every aspect of your life,...

Well, based on the first part of your post I must be either sx/sp or sx/so.
But what you described as so is what I had in mind for sx. Just that regular social interactions I can do. They can get tiresome, but I kinda like them, and they're not a problem. But they don't fix loneliness - they pause it.
And being understood requires a deeper connection.
The way I see it, being attractive is more an so thing than an sx thing. It helps one to fit in socially. (And I've always disregarded and even insulted popular styles.) The more closely people know you, the more forgiving they are of physical appearance.

I have low neuroticism overall. I don't worry about my physical well-being, I'm not concerned about losing romantic interests, and I don't give much thought to my social standing, though it is nice to be generally well-liked. But I do get obsessive about my closest friendships. (Like being pleased at the thought of my closest male friend marrying someone who's not me, but scheming how to overthrow his best man if he picks someone other than me.) (Like spending time when I should be working plotting fun gifts to send my friends.) (Like crying when a close friend is too busy to spend time with me because I think that means our friendship is over.) (Like abandoning a casual friend I was chatting with when someone who outranks them messages me.)

I don't know... I think it would be a lot more clear if people put the theories and quoting theories to the backburner and instead they talked about themselves.
It's like, people are hiding behind these abstractions. (there's too much superficial social vibe I'm getting here, less of an intimate, let's expose our inner secrets type of vibe)

That gets personal and I prefer to keep that to the chatbox where it eventually fades into the mist. But I tried.

Self-preservation Instinct

In balance:

• Take care of your overall health and wellbeing
  
• Focus on what keeps your life grounded and running: finances, home and car repairs, etc.
  
• Cultivate a supportive and comfortable domestic life
  
• Appreciate the basics: enjoying simplicity in life

Out of balance:

• Challenges with self-care: poor sleep or nutrition, ignore physical needs
  
• Rigidity or procrastination around needs related to your body, home, or finances
  
• Lack of financial abundance, or scarcity consciousness
  
• Overly attached to routines, or lacking structure in life

Sorta more first than second.

Sexual (or Attraction) Instinct

In balance:

• Aware of attraction: both of what we are attracted to and of our own power to attract
  
• Feel vital and alive: open to new experiences, willing to take risks, learn new things, and explore your edge
  
• Ability to immerse oneself deeply — to “merge” energetically with lovers, to spontaneously flow with eros and inspiration

Out of balance:

• Lose yourself in intimate relationships: difficulty with healthy attachment
  
• Can become addicted to romance and excitement
  
• Narcissistic display and/or shame
  
• Obsessive tendencies or energetic deadness

Neither and these sound stupid.

Social Instinct

In balance:

• Skilled at reading people and situations
  
• Consistently create and maintain connections with intimates, friends, and colleagues
  
• Participate in and contribute to your friendships, family, community, etc.

Out of balance:

• Overly concerned with the opinions of others — fear of social mistakes and loss of support
  
• Excessive focus on others or lack of awareness of their needs
  
• Over-committing or avoiding commitments
  
• Social insecurity can lead us to avoid communicating or dominate the conversation to cover up feelings of inadequacy

I've concluded that this is a bad list.

[Aylen]

I've concluded that this is a bad list.

It may be but he helped come up with the instinct stackings to begin with.

Of course anyone is free to make up their own system based on other people's work.

[Neokortex]

Still a voyeur of the ever elusive (to you) sx instinct I see.

I have given up enough of my secrets on this forum. I am passing the baton. Mine are in various threads and in various pm. We already had this conversation before.

There's no way you're an Sx-dom for the very reason that you're mocking my Sx hunger. As if you've never had this feeling, of being anxious, waiting for the crowd to dissipate, walls of insincere people to yield way to that other person waiting for you. Ain't it easy to poke fun of that despair when you've never had it? So if we've already had this convo before, did you answer it the last time with opening up more? Or was it just the same playful, impish, elusive (so/sx) butterfly, ever so light, ghosting one before leaping to the next?

That gets personal and I prefer to keep that to the chatbox where it eventually fades into the mist. But I tried.

Well, if you were an Sx dom you would have succeeded, to a degree. As I wrote before, what I see in your style of writing, as well as others is this lack of heaviness, sinisterness (in case of Sx/So, something else but still more focused). You guys aren't really here to discuss details, to be intimate about how you feel, this is just like a females' mag's letter column to you. It's all so dispersed, there's no exclusive, dead-on focus on either one topic or one individual, it's plain social chatter, batting the breeze. So you don't see yourself a leader type? But do you still end up *somehow* in leading positions, coordinating a group, be its head? I bet you're also here to lead (and develop a social position here, starting by being friendly, mostly accepting, picking up a bit of the local lingo, theory along the way), it's just that it wouldn't work if people knew it ahead, would it?

[Aylen]

There's no way you're an Sx-dom for the very reason that you're mocking my Sx hunger. As if you've never had this feeling, of being anxious, waiting for the crowd to dissipate, walls of insincere people to yield way to that other person waiting for you. Ain't it easy to poke fun of that despair when you've never had it? So if we've already had this convo before, did you answer it the last time with opening up more? Or was it just the same playful, impish, elusive (so/sx) butterfly, ever so light that ghosts one to leap to the next?

I find you to be needy for the social approval of your opinions and you want attention from women who have told you no. You are a voyeur of other people's sx because you are clueless. You asked me for details on my sex life and I declined. I didn't want your energy invading mine so I blocked your energy, not your posts.

You are not someone I would want to merge with and still you cry about social instinct like sx is going to just immerse themselves with anyone. You instantly creeped me out. Is it coming back to you? You are like a dime a dozen on social media platforms trying to make some kind of connection to me when I don't want it. People can tell when I am interested because I do immerse myself in the experience. I don't do it with just some rando on the forums who wants to draw things out of me I am not interested in sharing with them.

Maybe consider you have social anxiety and it is not about sx energy. I don't know you stacking and don't care to.

I think you told me I was so/sp but not sure.

Edit: You probably wouldn't remember me since you did it to several women in the sx/sp thread. The exchange went on for days.

[Neokortex]

I find you to be needy for the social approval of your opinions and you want attention from women who have told you no. You are a voyeur of other people's sx because you are clueless. You asked me for details on my sex life and I declined. I didn't want your energy invading mine so I blocked your energy, not your posts.

You are not someone I would want to merge with and still you cry about social instinct like sx is going to just immerse themselves with anyone. You instantly creeped me out. Is it coming back to you? You are like a dime a dozen on social media platforms trying to make some kind of connection to me when I don't want it.[...]

Maybe consider you have social anxiety and it is not about sx energy. I don't know you stacking and don't care to.[...]

Okay, what I remember is not that I was pressing harder when women had clearly told me "no," rather that I may have been more vehement when women were ghosting me. This is a communication problem, not a "voyeur" problem, IMO. Your choice of word adds a moral weight, as well as a rhetorical spin to it, whereas the purpose of the forum is to make connections, so one should be allowed to approach others (in the proper subforums). What may appear insidious is my intellectual "tackling" of people's attitudes, beliefs. Why do I do that? Well, I'm an Sx head type and I'm going to state this here loud and clear: people are very nebulous, elusive here about their purposes, motivation, agenda. This also ties into your previous comment on Ennegram being exploited. And when I say "opening up more," I don't mean it in the prying sense, I don't expect your deepest secrets. It's just that according to my baseline of intellectual/political honesty, which can be also culture related, people are very closed off here. Very scattered, unreliable, hard to grasp, in a sense that they come off as conniving, duplicitous in my perception. It's as if they expected me to take all their type indications for granted and not call them out on their behavioral discrepancies. And when I do, people go silent and you jump on rhetoric to call me a voyeur. Well, all Sxs need the juice and Sx/Sp are the "hungry ghosts/wanderers" because of being blind to the social network that could match them up with similar zombies. So we cold approach. This is why you perceive us as "voyeurs."
You got a problem with that? Then, drop your pride and consider that you may not be an Sx/Sp. Because what we need is help from the socials, like the Socials who don't portray themselves as such but still have this cool thing going on on Discord, their extra channel because why one forum if we can social network further out?

People can tell when I am interested because I do immerse myself in the experience. I don't do it with just some rando on the forums who wants to draw things out of me I am not interested in sharing with them.

Well, maybe a woman who was actually an Sx/Sp wouldn't mind the random approach, perhaps because they would have been as much as lost in this crowd of fake individuals as I am. People (that is, a certain range of types) can tell when you are interested but that doesn't give you the right to complain when they didn't read your thoughts.

Edit: You probably wouldn't remember me since you did it to several women in the sx/sp thread. The exchange went on for days.

I mean yeah, subtypes react differently but I've encountered your current antagonism before on PerC and it was the same problem, people indicating Sx-dom, yet being unable to properly define it, complete with examples from their life to give some (semblance of) proof that they got their type right. This is what I mean by intellectual murkiness. They fancy this or that type but are unwilling to back it up and then get upset when an Sx/Sp weirds them out. It was the Sx/Sp forum and Sx/Sps are (more or less) asocial animals, FYI; we're supposed to be weirdos. And wherever we go, we get harassed for that. If that doesn't resonate with you, then your antagonistic attitude/sensitivity to our cold approach suggests that it was you and the rest of you who were/are out of place, not me. (and no, I don't remember going on for more than a couple of days and no, I wasn't as prying and lecherous as your smear rhetoric suggests)

[Aylen]

Okay, what I remember is not that I was pressing harder when women had clearly told me "no," rather that I may have been more vehement when women were ghosting me. This is a communication problem, not a "voyeur" problem in my opinion. Your choice of word adds a moral weight, as well as a rhetorical spin to it, whereas the purpose of the forum is to make connections, so one should be allowed to approach others (in the proper subforums). What may appear insidious is my intellectual "tackling" of people's attitudes, beliefs. Why do I do that? Well, I'm an Sx head type and I'm going to state this here loud and clear: people are very nebulous, elusive here about their purposes, motivation, agenda. This also ties into the your previous comment of Ennegram being exploited. And when I say "opening up more," I don't mean it in the prying sense, I don't expect your deepest secrets. It's just that according to my baseline of intellectual/political honesty, which can be also culture related, people are very closed off here. Very scattered, unreliable, hard to grasp, in a sense that they come off as conniving, duplicitous in my perception. It's as if they expected me to take all their type indications for granted and not call them out on their behavioral discrepancies. And when I do, people go silent and you jump on rhetoric to call me a voyeur. Well, all Sxs need the juice and Sx/Sp are the "hungry ghosts" because of being blind to the social network that could mediate them to other zombies like them. This is why you perceive us as "voyeurs."
You got a problem with that? Then, drop your pride and consider that you may not be an Sx/Sp. Because what we need is help from the socials, like the socials who don't consider themselves as such but they still have this cool thing going on on Discord, their extra channel because social networking has its ways of self-organization..., I guess.

Well, maybe a woman who was actually an Sx/Sp wouldn't mind the random approach, perhaps because they would have been as much as lost in this crowd of fake individuals as I am. People (that is, a certain range of types) can tell when you are interested but that doesn't give you the right to complain when they didn't read your thoughts.

I mean yeah, subtypes react differently but I've encountered your current antagonism before on PerC and it was the same problem, people indicating the Sx-dom instinct, yet being unable to give a proper definition of it, complete with examples from their life to give some (semblance of) proof that they got their type right. This is what I mean by intellectual murkiness. They fancy this or that type but are unwilling to back it up and then get upset when an Sx/Sp weirds them out. It was the Sx/Sp forum and Sx/Sps are asocial animals (more or less) FYI; we're supposed to be weirdos. Yet, we can't allow that to show. If that doesn't resonate with you, than your antagonistic attitude to our cold approach suggests that it was you and the rest of you who were/are out of place, not me. (and no, I don't remember going on for more than a couple of days and no, I wasn't as prying and lecherous as you make it sound like)

I was a bit harsh but only because you are pulling the same frustrating nonsense you did in that thread and typing anyone who would not give you the details on their sex life or how they get "intimate" with others social firsts. Sorry you felt you had to defend yourself. You are free to read any post of mine in any thread. I don't tend to analyze my sx instinct in public threads when I don't want to. I don't want to. I am secure in my self typings and don't really need to. If I share anything it is because I want to. I didn't want to have the "intimate" conversation you were seeking then and neither did anyone else from what I remember. It only went on for days with me. It went on weeks with you and others.

[Neokortex]

I was a bit harsh but only because you are pulling the same frustrating nonsense you did in that thread and typing anyone who would not give you the details on their sex life or how they get "intimate" with others social firsts. Sorry you felt you had to defend yourself. You are free to read any post of mine in any thread. I don't tend to analyze my sx instinct in public threads when I don't want to. I don't want to. I am secure in my self typings and don't really need to. If I share anything it is because I want to. I didn't want to have the "intimate" conversation you were seeking then and neither did anyone else from what I remember. It only went on for days with me. It went on weeks with you and others.

I would have to read back to know for sure that what here you're stating is true. In general, I have bursts of activities on these forums that with the exception of one case (on PerC) have never been drawn out for weeks. Or at least not in a quarrelsome way as you put it. The reason is that people quickly ghost me after I ask for "too much information." I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing (called as "proximity" in non-interpersonal relations, such as the distance between strangers in the States vs. in Italy, the level of closeness allowed) but to my standard, this "too much" is not intimate, as well as (and I'm repeating myself for emphasis) I don't remember anyone clearly expressing denial of such information and rejection of conversation. What I can say, instead, as a general experience, is that people don't tell me not to bother them but still want to end the conversation with the image that "they know their type." That they'd be able to discuss that further, it's just that they don't feel like it. Such as you do know --- but: following the Latin saying ("Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"), what differentiates you from the ones you point out as the abusers of the Enneagram? True, people cannot be forced to reveal anything on these forums but can you deny that it is for the civility and maturity of these "communities" that they "got their type right" and were more forthcoming about it? If it is, then intimacy (sx/sp) is more closely linked to social causes, than you're willing to acknowledge. Hence, your rejection of engagement (responding to the call to "open up"), in light of how similar is to others', can be interpreted as the Social types' diffusion of responsibility. After all, someone has to start to be more open about themselves (so as to provide a reference point for others to bounce off from) to straighten out the problem (of the "community") that you acknowledge.

This is the contradiction in you that you tried to deflect and distract from by waving the currently popular (social) #metoo flag in response to me taunting your for being a social butterfly. Frankly, that Discord server you mention sounds like an insiders' circle, a clique. Is it, then, that you show general friendliness, engagement with people around the forum, when in actuality you're more invested socially in a clique?

(And these were all rhetorical questions, so that you won't be able to call my criticism a harassment.)

[Aylen]

. . . removed rest for privacy

Just imo Abbie, what you described under your friendships I would consider as so rather than sx. You might end up coming to a different conclusion, but thought I'd put my 2c in.

I thought social too but only going on what I know of Abbie. Her self presentation I suppose. She may not reveal the sx side of herself on the forum. She is a different E type and socionics type so I have to remind myself this is based on how I view other sx firsts and myself.

It's like I can feel the magnetism with them even if I never speak to them. Even if they never speak a word to me either. It is not a physical thing. It is energy. They can look physically repulsive and I wouldn't go near them with a ten foot pole yet I see it.

I have the added bias of sx 4 and fighting the desire to be unique, which isn't too hard anymore. I only really offer some of my own experiences one on one these days since I still believe that if I share to much I will alienate others. I basically spoon feed myself to people I think can't handle it. I was not always like that. It just comes with experience and I am pretty sure a lot of people have not lived a life similar enough to mine to relate. I feel I am more balanced with my instincts now which is a plus.

[DirectorAbbie]

She is a different E type and socionics type so I have to remind myself this is based on how I view other sx firsts and myself.

I have the added bias of sx 4

What are normal stacking matches for different E-types?
4 may be the type that fits me the least.
It seems that sx would be more likely to fit with 4, 6, or 7, so with 2 or 3...

[Aylen]

Really, so is sx really that moronic and shallow?

What do the Fi people say?

I don't know what part you find moronic and shallow but sx is not shallow. Other factors can make people shallow.

Did you mean this?

They can look physically repulsive and I wouldn't go near them with a ten foot pole yet I see it.

That was for emphasis. I don't really notice looks first. My friends have called some of my ex bfs ugly. Guess who had not go? Not my bf....

What are normal stacking matches for different E-types?
4 may be the type that fits me the least.
It seems that sx would be more likely to fit with 4, 6, or 7, so with 2 or 3...

We are on a discord server together. I will send you all I have then you can read and decide where your best fit in the system is.

[DirectorAbbie]

I don't know what part you find moronic and shallow

Attraction and eros and mushy stuff like romance and merging with lovers.
There are like four or five kinds of love and eros is the stupid one.

[Aylen]

Attraction and eros and mushy stuff like romance and merging with lovers.
There are like four or five kinds of love and eros is the stupid one.

Ah, ok.

[Aylen]

I added health levels for sx for those who missed it.