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Thread: Stackings and Misconceptions

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    Volcana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I wasn't calling your husband moronic or shallow. That was in reference to the Biblical Samson from the book of Judges, the one squark mentioned in her post.


    I quoted and linked it in the opening post.
    Alright. I saw you apologized in the other thread; I hadn't seen that until after I had posted my comment. It's all good
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    Darn Socks Abbie the Child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    An Overview of Sx

    The Sexual Instinct, above all, seeks stimulation, whether it be physical, mental emotional, etc. This, most of the time, manifests as a want; a need for someone, to be intimate with and to fulfill their inner desires, or "make them whole".

    When Sx finds someone, it knows it wants them, without hesitating to consider the consequences or background of the person. It wants unlimited connection and intimacy with that person, usually, but not necessarily in a sexual or romantic sense, and caters all their actions toward this person, e.g. making the first move in a relationship.

    Some authors have sought to tame this Instinct with new names, such as Intimate or One-to-One, but any attempt at reworking the Instinct into something wholesome/spiritual/romantic misses the mark: the Sexual Instinct is an unbridled narcotic of wanting, untethered by ethics/morality.

    The most common metaphor for Sx is a burning flame; a raging fire that keeps itself alive by seeking fuel to feed it. On the other hand, Sx can also be represented as rushing water; a river that seeks nothing more than to find its ocean, someone to lose itself into.

    Health Levels

    (impacts Sx dominants the most)

    Healthy Sx

    Advancing Relationships

    When healthy, Sx can deepen and strengthen relationships and interpersonal bonds, and steadily ringing intimacy levels to greater and greater heights until satisfaction; like a tight-knit family. The Sx user is adequately stimulated, and confident and caring towards their loved ones and intimates. They have a natural magnetism which draws people in, and can control themselves well.

    Average Sx

    Fixation and Stimulation

    The Sx Instinct starts to become (what it deems as) understimulated and dependent on others, whether it be their close friends or acquaintences, to supply it with energy and life, much like a vampire. Instead of deepening their bonds, the Sx user starts to form "fixations", in which they not only want their person-of-choice's love and attention, but their "soul" as well. This can be overwhelming for some, and can ironically drive people away with the intensity.

    Unhealthy Sx

    Obsession and Desperation

    The Sx instinct becomes drastically understimulated and desperate for love and/or stimulation, and would go to extreme lengths to attain it. This could lead the Sx user down dangerous paths, such as drug abuse or promiscuity. They become an "adrenaline junkie", and this attitude often puts off others and drives them away, and if the Sx user cannot find adequate stimulation to sate their desires, they will eventually sink into despair.
    I could relate to bits of the sx overview. I could relate more to the healthy and average descriptions

    Sx in sx/sp

    The sx/sp will only *truly* care about those they are close to, and try to push for more and more intimate relationships between people they already know. The energy from this type is given a laser-focused control by the sp, and seeks stimulation, but in a relatively safe way. This stacking is more willing to be friendly or "fake" soc, in order to attract potential friends or intimates. They build upon the (often few) close relationships they already have; many sx/sps have fantasies of whisking away their loved ones to a secluded place where they can do whatever they want, undisturbed by the world.
    This. This! This is me. "in a relatively safe way" and "only truly caring about those I'm close to" and doing the social to spot potential targets for real interaction, and once I have a close relationship I would prefer to build on it rather than reach out to more people (which may be why God takes them away).

    Sx in sx/so

    The sx/so will often seem like they are driven by pure, uninhibited sx, luring people in and trapping them, much like a Venus Flytrap. This stacking is more prone to dependency, bringing awkward intensity into a group, and dragging "fixations" into it. It waits to see whatever looks nice to grab onto, and will fixate until either the target or the sx/so is drained. Sx/so might look desperate to others. Their energy is akin to battering-rams, charging into relationships and breaking walls until they fall, only to get back up again and continue bashing.
    Nope.

    Sx in so/sx

    The so/sx will have a similar charm and magnetism to the sx/so, but is generally softer and friendlier, ready to take things more steadily instead of rushing headfirst into things. The so/sx will enter a group, and scatter interpersonal energy (Sx) to a more focused area, and form close bonds with their people of choice. However, it would take a while for them to put their sx relations as a priority, and even longer for them to admit it (more commonly in Fe users).
    Oh, this could fit me too. That's a good description of how I do what I mentioned above.

    Sx in sp/sx

    Sx in sp/sx seems to be weak and almost non-existent at first, since they themselves always come first. They will never put somebody else before their own needs, even if they're their closest friend. Instead of building a castle with their close ones inside like the sx/sp, they build walls around themselves first, secretly hoping for someone to come in. However, this often puts people off becoming closer to them, leaving them alone.
    Nope.

    Sx-Blindness

    Sx-blinds have a far gentler approach to interpersonal relationships, and are sometimes unsure and cautious in approaching someone they are attracted to. When in a close relationship, they may have trouble or insecurity in showing enough intimacy, and tend to compensate for this through acts of service(so) or advice and stability (sp) for their loved ones and/or partners. Sx blinds also have the tendency to "compartmentalize" their relationships, separating them and putting them into "boxes" (e.g. work acquaintances, online friends, real life friends, etc. are separated).
    Sort of, but sx/sp and so/sx are the clear winners here.


    Sp in sx/sp

    Sp in sx/sp acts as both a restraint and a safety net for the stacking. As Sx seeks out intense experiences and people, Sp serves to keep it in check, making sure the sx/sp doesn't exert themself, and if they do, they are aware of the consequences. If the sx/sp goes understimulated or crashes and burns, Sp is there to make sure that they can support themselves by themselves, at least until they can recover.
    I didn't relate to most of the sp stuff, but I can kinda relate to this.

    Sp-blinds have a lighter, more flighty approach to life. Other-directed instead of self-directed, they tend to be more dependent on others, whether they would like to admit it or not. Though they can be private people, they tend to be more reckless and heedless of consequences than other types. Lacking roots to plant into the ground, they can break up the monotony of mundane everyday life, but are lazy/avoidant of their own domestic needs.
    This isn't me.


    An Overview of Soc

    The Social Instinct, above all, is the desire to belong to a greater whole. This often manifests as a desire for fame, recognition, attention, connections and the validation/esteem gained from them, or to make an impact on the world.

    Soc fears rejection and shunning, varying its approach and actions to blend in with the group, whether it be climbing the social ladder or helping others and doing good. Soc feels a strong sense of loyalty to the group or community it's in, especially if it feels appreciated and loved.

    Soc connects with others through mutual bonding activities, and getting to know one another at a chosen pace. It seeks stable connections with others, whether for the sake of connecting with others or for their own sake. The interpersonal dance between people from all walks of life.

    A common metaphor for Soc is fresh air; it is expansive, and travels far and wide, searching for others of its kind. It also brings forth sunlight; it shines on the Earth, bringing a gleam to all it touches.


    Health Levels


    (impacts Soc dominants the most)


    Healthy Soc

    Actively Contributing to Society

    When healthy, Soc is selfless, though not self-destructive, and the Soc user is regularly seen doing social work, like participating in community movements or doing missionary work overseas. The Soc user is good-natured and affectionate, with an array of friends and acquaintances, traversing the social realm with grace and ease.

    Average Soc

    Friendly and Networking

    The Soc Instinct becomes less confident in itself in the social realm, and may start to develop social anxiety, worrying what others think of them. At the same time, it becomes generous and amicable, but only if it serves to improve their status and reputation. If the Soc user is without a group or network to support them, they become listless and wandering, searching for something to be a part of.


    Unhealthy Soc

    Antisocial Attitudes

    The Soc Instinct is lost, shunned and/or rejected by others, and starts to develop antisocial tendencies, withdrawing and resenting others or society at large for putting them in such a situation. This attitude further drives others away, burning the bridges between them and human contact altogether.
    I relate to the soc overview (with the desire for connections). I've felt that community loyalty and tend to stick around in communities after most regulars have left, naively clinging to what is gone.

    I could sort of relate to the healthy soc, but not to average or unhealthy.

    I like having a diverse network of friends. But each connection is on a 1-1 basis.

    Soc in so/sx

    So/sx has the ability to see everyone simultaneously in relation to a greater whole, but also as individuals. Without any Sp to inhibit its Soc agenda, it can be as free as it wants to be when navigating the social realm. Like a bird in the sky, the so/sx seeks out flocks of people to be a part of, and picks out one or a few people to be best friends with. The cycle repeats, and the so/sx slowly but surely gains a circle of quality friendships.
    I relate to this to an extent in that I've done that. But I don't enjoy it. Repeating the cycle is in defeat and out of necessity.

    Soc-blinds have difficulty seeing the need to make new connections (not necessarily the same as friendships) and network. Seen as aloof and stand-offish, they often come with a lack of engagement with people, or an attitude in doing so. They are generally unafraid of going "against the grain" and of social rejection, ignoring social conventions, usually leading to a rocky relationship with authorities. They have no need to be a part of a society or community, presenting an outsider-looking-in perspective.
    It's complicated.
    I see a need to make new connections. Partially because I may feel short on connections, partly because of the possibility of really connecting with someone. And it's rare, but if I don't make the first connection I'll never get that, so it's a worthwhile gamble. And often people will choose to connect with me, and I don't turn people away.
    I don' think I'm seen as aloof or stand-offish.
    I do ignore social conventions, but usually in a passive way that doesn't cause rocky relationships (only disapproval or amusement).
    I do want to be part of a community...a community of outsiders-looking-in.


    Thank you, Aylen. That was an excellent post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  3. #83
    andreasdevig's Avatar
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    @Volcana Thank you for the thorough explanation. Would it be fair to say that So is romantic and Sx is sexual/physical/sensual? Or is Sx romantic and Sp the physical/sexual/sensual side (as some have suggested)?
    EII-INFj / INFP / 4w5 5w4 9w1

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    Darn Socks Abbie the Child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    ...Fe can be about finding...your role...


    Sexual (aka “Attraction”) Instinct

    Many people originally identify themselves as this type because they have learned that the Sexual types are interested in “one-on-one relationships.” But all three instinctual types are interested in one-on-one relationships for different reasons, so this does not distinguish them. The key element in Sexual types is an intense drive for stimulation and a constant awareness of the “chemistry” between themselves and others. Sexual types are immediately aware of the attraction, or lack thereof, between themselves and other people. Further, while the basis of this instinct is related to sexuality, it is not necessarily about people engaging in the sexual act. There are many people that we are excited to be around for reasons of personal chemistry that we have no intention of “getting involved with.” Nonetheless, we might be aware that we feel stimulated in certain people’s company and less so in others. The sexual type is constantly moving toward that sense of intense stimulation and juicy energy in their relationships and in their activities. They are the most “energized” of the three instinctual types, and tend to be more aggressive, competitive, charged, and emotionally intense than the Self-Pres or Social types. Sexual types need to have intense energetic charge in their primary relationships or else they remain unsatisfied. They enjoy being intensely involved—even merged—with others, and can become disenchanted with partners who are unable to meet their need for intense energetic union. Losing yourself in a “fusion” of being is the ideal here, and Sexual types are always looking for this state with others and with stimulating objects in their world.
    That description doesn't fit me.

    Social (aka “Adaptive”) Instinct

    Just as many people tend to misidentify themselves as Sexual types because they want one-on-one relationships, many people fail to recognize themselves as Social types because they get the (false) idea that this means always being involved in groups, meetings, and parties. If Self-Preservation types are interested in adjusting the environment to make themselves more secure and comfortable, Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in. Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.
    "They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them."
    Psh, not really.

    "Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection"
    Same thing. Connect deeply and that's intimate.

    "they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world."
    This is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Edit: Just read Aylen's post, and from those descriptions sp/so could fit you, yes? The earth quality you described in yourself, etc. So, maybe I wrong as to which of your instincts is primary. Idk, whichever you think best fits.
    Sp in sp/so

    Understanding the need for both solidarity and solitude, sp/so strikes a balance between self-sufficiency and social connection. Their level-headed quality attracts people to them; they're wanted for their stability and ability to pull people back to earth. Equipped with a "if you want something done, do it yourself" attitude, they prefer to take care of their own issues, but may appease others in order to get ahead. Approachable yet self-assertive, sp/so can be relied on to be a rock in the storm.
    Well, the rock-in-the-storm comment fits me. I want to be a reliable one so when someone's life falls apart, they can see, "Well, at least Abbie's basically the same."
    Someone once wrote in my yearbook for me never to change, and I took them seriously.

    Soc in sp/so

    The sp/so will use their Soc connection to a greater whole to provide a stable resource to support their Sp lifestyle. Though preferring to mind their own business, they will readily take on social responsibilities or situations if it doesn't intrude on their inner boundaries. Although Soc-second, this stacking tends to handle people better than so/sp, since their sp needs are established clearly, while so/sp is usually oblivious that they have sp inhibitions at all.
    I suppose this describes my shallow side, but there is not focus or neuroticism in this. This is just how I interact with acquaintances.

    Sx-Blindness

    Sx-blinds have a far gentler approach to interpersonal relationships, and are sometimes unsure and cautious in approaching someone they are attracted to. When in a close relationship, they may have trouble or insecurity in showing enough intimacy, and tend to compensate for this through acts of service(so) or advice and stability (sp) for their loved ones and/or partners. Sx blinds also have the tendency to "compartmentalize" their relationships, separating them and putting them into "boxes" (e.g. work acquaintances, online friends, real life friends, etc. are separated).
    Well, I have a gentle approach to relationships. But I don't know about the "attracted to" bit because I don't know what that means.
    I don't show intimacy when it's expected, namely in romantic relationships. But I still don't believe asexuality equates to sx-blind any more than kinkiness equates to sp-blind.
    I think I do use the mailing system to show affection. But my close friends are all physically distant, so I don't know how that relates to the compensation point.
    I am slow to show intimacy, but I am slow to feel intimacy.
    I do compartmentalize my relationships. For example on Facebook I have groups based on sociotype, family, spiritual family, local, international, etc. But I think that would be more related to Te or even E1: taking advantage of an organizational system.
    In my own mind, I sort them in tiers based on closeness, as I mentioned.

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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  5. #85
    Darn Socks Abbie the Child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I still wonder about so/sx for you:

    ...which seems to fit in with what you have been saying. I feel like I sensed the rootlessness and turbulence of the SP last...though I could be wrong.
    I did relate to the so/sx description Aylen shared, but not to the sp-blindspot.
    Maybe an example of so without sp could be the time I was walking in a strange city alone at night and stopped to ask directions from a couple of men standing on a corner.

    Sp-blinds have a lighter, more flighty approach to life. Other-directed instead of self-directed, they tend to be more dependent on others, whether they would like to admit it or not. Though they can be private people, they tend to be more reckless and heedless of consequences than other types. Lacking roots to plant into the ground, they can break up the monotony of mundane everyday life, but are lazy/avoidant of their own domestic needs.
    I'm not flighty or reckless. I'm a homebody and certainly have roots. I like everyday life as opposed to wild adventures. (Maybe I would be more open to adventure if I didn't get motion sickness so easily. Even watching Black Panther gave me a headache.) I'm not lazy of my own domestic needs. I do my laundry and I cook for myself and I even cleaned my room the other day.

    What do you think of the so/sx description vs. these:

    compared to so/sp imo you are more so/sx. I dunno about sp/so though. What do you think?
    My social awkwardness is probably NTR.

    I would be sp/so if I were dead inside.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Naranjo links the unhealthy manifestations of type with pathologies. This is not the same as "Enneagram is about weakness."
    A psycological weakness then. Either way, first stacking isn't something a person is secure in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  6. #86
    Heaven and Hell Samson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    A psycological weakness then. Either way, first stacking isn't something a person is secure in.
    It is not about weakness; describing unhealthy manifestations of the types does not make the entirety of a typology about weakness.

    Security isn't weakness. But this conversation isn't about "security." Your claim is that the Enneagram and instinct is about weakness, and that is a false claim. Your premise for typing is off.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    @Samson I feel like perhaps you know what she meant, but you are twisting it around for no reason

    Anyways, as I have stated earlier, people have different sexual languages. What if you had your "sex leaking from the eyes" (which you can't even see online) and other things you associate with SX firsts without the dramatic description about eros etc. (not to be rude). I feel like you understand what I am saying but...anyways, I will say it again: it can be sexual and just as strongly so, without people speaking of it in such blatant sexual terms as you do, or others might do. Nothing wrong with that!
    The way I see it is that there are seemingly paradoxical point of views that are actually not really paradoxical.
    At this point, I have met enough people to know that many are annoyed by those sorts of descriptions of SX.
    They are not saying SX is not "sexual" they are saying they need to talk about sex constantly or eros or...really any of the ways you describe it.
    And it can still be SX. Perhaps that's surprising to you, but it's true.
    Sure there might be some that do mistype because of misconceptions or whatever, but there's a good majority that I don't think do.
    Nor does it make it less sexual with "social" involved (I doubt that people who think of sx as intimacy are all also coming from a "SO point of view" or whatever, that's not true. I think it's something in the sexual languages, erotic attitudes if you will).

    You seem to just want to pick a fight and steamroll over people for no reason instead of wanting to come to an understanding. It's very mean and unnecessary.

    Anyways, I don't want to engage in a fight with you, I was just pointing this out. Fighting feels cruel to me so I will refrain. I do not wish to be attacked either.
    @Director Abbie I will PM you wrt your type. I don't really want to engage in this thread anymore.

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    Heaven and Hell Samson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    @Samson I feel like perhaps you know what she meant, but you are twisting it around for no reason
    I am uninterested in what you 'feel what I know she meant.' Her approach to the Enneagram is wrong. It is not about weakness.

    As long as this doesn't get addressed, she will run around in circles with this typology, never addressing the meat of it:



    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    You seem to just want to pick a fight and steamroll over people for no reason instead of wanting to come to an understanding. It's very mean and unnecessary.
    On the contrary. My aim is for mutual gain, but OP has very early on shown her true colors. As such, I have no interest in false niceness. Neither you nor her are seeking to understand my position; you are already convinced of your righteousness.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    On the contrary. My aim is for mutual gain, but OP has very early on shown her true colors. As such, I have no interest in false niceness. Neither you nor her are seeking to understand my position; you are already convinced of your righteousness.
    I think I have already stated that I "understand your position" (in my previous post) I don't understand what more you would want. I get your basic position and I get where you are coming from. You are the one who started dismissing the other way of looking at it by calling it "nonsense" (which I have also explained it not the case. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not you believe it. I can't force someone to see something a certain way )

    I also think you are being too harsh on her as she clearly stated she wasn't even insulting you but the character. The rest of her post wasn't even wrong. That's all I have to say on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I think I have already stated that I "understand your position" (in my previous post) I don't understand what more you would want. I get your basic position and I get where you are coming from. You are the one who started dismissing the other way of looking at it by calling it "nonsense" (which I have also explained it not the case. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not you believe it. I can't force someone to see something a certain way )

    I also think you are being too harsh on her as she clearly stated she wasn't even insulting you but the character. The rest of her post wasn't even wrong. That's all I have to say on that.
    I completely disagree with you. Neither you nor DA understand my position. If you do, you haven't demonstrated it.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    I completely disagree with you. Neither you nor DA understand my position. If you do, you haven't demonstrated it.
    I have understood your position from the very beginning as I have come across similar position(s) a lot.

    But I don't think I can make it clearer than I have. I don't know what you are looking for. You can't make me, or someone else just agree "yes yes sex, eros, fire = sx" and that's all there is to it. That's it.

    As I have explained earlier, I/Cs are not into overt aggressive displays of sexuality. For them that language is different. The way some people talk about SX is going to be different from you. You don't seem to want to even see that way. Perhaps you can't! In which case this would be futile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I have understood your position from the very beginning as I have come across similar position(s) a lot.

    But I don't think I can make it clearer than I have. I don't know what you are looking for. You can't make me, or someone else just agree "yes yes sex, eros, fire = sx" and that's all there is to it. That's it.

    As I have explained earlier, I/Cs are not into overt aggressive displays of sexuality. For them that language is different. The way some people talk about SX is going to be different from you. You don't seem to want to even see that way. Perhaps you can't! In which case this would be futile.
    You are straw-manning my position. ""yes yes sex, eros, fire = sx" and that's all there is to it. That's it." -> this isn't my position.

    Not once did I mention overt aggressive displays of sexuality.
    Again, you do not understand my position, despite your claims to the contrary.

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    Okay, I don't mean to invalidate what the sexual instinct means to you or how you define it.

    I am saying that that's not all there is to it. Some people are going to be less than satisfied with your description. Doesn't mean that you are wrong or that there is something wrong with your description!
    But that others aren't necessarily wrong either. I already cleared up earlier how I thought you were misunderstanding me, hope that's helpful as to what I meant.

    Both positions are correct. There is no need to fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    Okay, I don't mean to invalidate what the sexual instinct means to you or how you define it.

    I am saying that that's not all there is to it. Some people are going to be less than satisfied with your description. Doesn't mean that you are wrong or that there is something wrong with your description!
    But that others aren't necessarily wrong either. I already cleared up earlier how I thought you were misunderstanding me, hope that's helpful as to what I meant.

    Both positions are correct. There is no need to fight.
    No one is fighting, currently.

    And no, both positions are not correct. They are quite contradictory positions and I wish to learn which one holds up to scrutiny.

    Feel free to not engage in the argument if this is stressful to you.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.katherinefauvre.com/subtypes/
    It appears that the degree to which our instinctual drive's impulses control our lives is subject to the same kind of energy as our Enneagram point. For example, we can experience our drives and passions mildly or intensely; we can feel some sense of control or very little control at all; and in addition, we can either embrace our particular instinctual drive or act totally against it. It is important to note that whether embracing the drive as an asset or viewing it as a liability it is still ever present and influential.

    More specifically, our dominant instinctual drive is, in actuality, our area of greatest weakness. Thus, when our sense of "survival" is threatened something has triggered whatever "button" happens to relate not only to our Enneagram point but, more important, also to our instinctual drive. The fixation then becomes even more severe as we take on the additional fears of the instinctual drive. The important factor here is that the triggering element of the fixation is the instinctual drive's issue. Nevertheless, the flavor will always be that of the Enneagram type, as the fixation and the drive are interactive, linked, and always related to the Enneagram type.

    The real question is, how do we express anger, fear and desire? How do we experience illness and what types of illnesses do we have? How do we act when we're happy or sad? As an example, ask yourself how you like to spend your time. Do you tend to make sure your own needs are met and satisfied with the essentials of life (self-preservation)? Or does your attention go to being in the company of others and, if so, how many others, and/or do you need to be in service of others (social)? Or instead do you find that your ultimate expression of self is linked to the company of one significant other in an intimate and profound way, and that no matter where you are or what you are doing, you are always in search of that beloved special person (sexual)?
    Here's another source.
    There's a chart.


    But a couple people, including my best friend, think so/sx is a good fit for me, and I did relate to Aylen's description of that stacking. So I think I'll go with that, @VenusRose.
    But Aylen's description of sp-blindness must be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Heaven and Hell Samson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Here's another source.
    There's a chart.
    Not 'another' source. It is the only source that you could find after you had made that statement so callously, not knowing or understanding what it was you were referring to.

    To top it off, their claim is only about the first instinct, not about the Enneagram. Your basic understanding of the Enneagram is still way off.

    And they are mistaken. Instinct does NOT imply skill nor any lack of it. I dare you or them to argue otherwise. Doing so would be foolish, but entertaining nonetheless. Up for the challenge?

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Ok, I still don't want to be attacked or anything or something called "nonsense" since I am sharing...this, and it makes me feel somewhat vulnerable but, I thought I would add what I meant. I may not want to "argue" though, but just providing my thoughts on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Being up-to-date-with-the-trends may be Social, but needing to be attractive is directly related to sexuality and partnership. It is about seducing and being seduced, and looking hot and sexy is a must.
    Yeah, I understand what you mean. But I think for several this is somewhat unconscious that they do this (seducing/being seduced, and "looking hot and sexy) <-- referring again to my post on Si/Ne types may metabolize sexuality, and for several of them it is intellectually.

    Which is to say they may engage in those behaviors, but may tend to "romanticize" it when talking about it, or "intellectualize" it perhaps. But if you observe them, the sexuality is clearly obvious. As you mentioned the same down here somewhere as well...

    There is a reason it is called 'sexual' after all. And yes, it is a very basic need for our species, it is an instinct. I don't understand this notion that it shouldn't be about sex. Sex is vital to our existence, just as much as preserving ourselves and the group is - if not moreso depending how you look at it.
    Yeah I understand what you mean here. But I was trying to point out that you may be misunderstanding the comment that "it's not about sex." That comment doesn't mean what you are saying here isn't correct. All instincts, including sexual are "vital to our species." But as I mentioned earlier, some people (honestly, it doesn't even have to be Si/Ne types - and some Si/Ne types may not relate to what I am saying, but just to mention that there are definitely people out there who are like this) very much embody everything you have talked about, but may shy away from writing about it in more blatant terms. Though this one is not that blatant.

    Hence they may use the words "intimacy," "connection," and such.
    Also, just the SX collage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Fauvre
    For purposes of this study, I sent out questionnaires to the Enneagram community, and this article represents my initial findings on the patterns that emerged from the contributions received from the participants.
    She has gathered data by asking those who identify as SX firsts, what it means to them. Which is why I think it is relevant and important.

    This is um, where I meant that I am making myself vulnerable and I don't like being made to look like someone I am not.

    Denying the importance of sex in our base make-up as human beings is exactly what 'blindspot' means. VenusRose's idea that somehow the Delta quadra downplays sex even when they are Sx dominant is nonsense. Have you ever met an IEE Sx/So 6? I have. The sex is dripping out of their eyes. Of course I can say what I want, you don't have to believe me on this one.
    Another example would be Helena Bonham Carter. Not-Sx-blindspot Delta person. Looking at her, yeah.. she cares about sex.
    I was hurt and scared at being made to look like someone I am not. Scared not because of you necessarily, but because I don't feel like I can defend myself and thought I would be run-over. And that if I made myself vulnerable it would be intentionally and/or unintentionally exploited in order to suit someone's agenda.
    . . .

    Anyways, that is what I was afraid of.

    But yeah, they do have "sex leaking from their eyes," though I have also observed this sometimes in SX seconds. Which I guess isn't surprising because they can be more "playful" with SX since they don't have as much neurosis or fear tied to it as SX firsts.

    Anyway, I didn't realize this was a typing thread, so I do apologize for my tone in this post. I assure you I have nothing against you or your typing or w/e. My frustration lies with the denial of something so potentially beautiful, by so many people across forums and IRL, including teachers and writers, and it pains me that sex, desire, eros,... is looked at as dirty or fake and that it needs to be cleansed from its 'sin' as it were. And similarly the beauty of the social arena gets erased for much of the same 'sin:' that of superficiality. It pains me to see that the depths of these mechanisms are denied.
    Oh, I absolutely do not think that, nor did I mean it. Perhaps you didn't mean me, but just clearing it up.

    So..yeah. That's it.
    Last edited by VenusRose; 01-18-2019 at 05:17 AM.

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    @Director Abbie
    From what you've posted, I could get behind Social first for you.

    I'm not gonna enter the argument about enneagram and what it means - I just don't have time and I don't mean that in any insulting way. Just wanted to throw in my vote for Soc.
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    Well, I'll go ahead and post this here after all:

    If someone is dying so no longer concerned about their own sp, they might focus on getting things in order for their family members. They'd make arrangements, make sure funeral costs were covered ahead of time, set their family up well financially. Their sp would then be focused not on their own survival, but the survival and well-being of their relatives. The survival of their genes and such. Still sp, just redirected.

    If someone was isolated and couldn't engage in their social instinct, they might write in a journal as though it was to a friend, or write letters in hopes someday they'd get them to their friends, talk to animals and take care of them, perhaps even create an imaginary friend. Still so, just redirected.

    So, sexual energy too can be redirected. It's still lust, but could be in regards to ideas, wanting to gobble up every little piece of information of the ideas you're deeply drawn to, immersing yourself in the seeking, or problems so engaging you get excited just considering them and that you could spend years sorting them out and trying to solve them without growing tired of it. Or activities that you want to spend every waking moment engaged in, perfecting. That same drive is redirected into other areas then. If you direct it towards your friends there will be strong components of that hunger there, wanting to pull them in closer and closer wanting to know every crevice of their heart and mind in a way that nobody else could and selfishly guarding that from anyone else. Lust is the underlying pull in sx, a sense of "I want all of this person/idea/activity" which is why it's called sx.

    Relationships though would be social, how to relate, finding your tribe, your people, trust and support.

    And this is why it's easy to see how ALL of the instincts are important and valuable, all of them are a part of every person's life, with positive aspects of every one of them. The first instinct is what you find most important and focus on the most, and it feels like a matter of life and death if you don't get it, so that's why it gets out of whack the easiest. There's a feeling of "if I let go of this need, I'll die" either literally in the case of sp, indirectly in the case of so, and metaphorically in the case of sx. /end my 2c
    Last edited by squark; 01-18-2019 at 02:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I would respond to this if I knew what you were going on about. Anyone is free to check out your posts in the sx/sp thread.
    Well, it's about my memory of my interaction with you. You write that I intimidated you by askinge details about your sex life. Now, there's a history and context missing from that statement. I don't just walk up to people and ask them right away about their sex lives. Or if something similar happened, than there may already have been a conversation in which you were divulging your sex life. I recall asking for more detail about sthing you posted for sone else, yet I don't remember you directly refusing interaction but ghosting me instead. What stayed with me about you is that you were a very elusive, sneaky person who came forth with a bold statement, then were unwilling to back it up.

    I feel that your magnification of this voyeur aspect is to deflect from your exploitation of Enneagram theories for building your social facade online. While it can be impossible that you just didn't feel like answering a stranger, more facts point towards the latter. Facts like you being part of 9 forum groups; then, having your visitor messages and friends page hidden (I'd wager you have a lot, seeing how well you get along with others). These, along with having had various monikers, all suggest that you very consciously lead a very active social life here on 16types. Heck, you may even have multiple accounts.

    And your helpfulness may be also for gaining social status. But insider you're very pragmatic, would leave these people with your debts if found a better group.
    Last edited by Neokortex; 01-18-2019 at 08:12 PM.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Names left out, obviously. But saying how I was impacted is personal too, so you'd have to either be someone I know and trust or have a really good excuse for needing the data for statistical/scientific purposes. [...]
    Okay, beyond the parts that I did misunderstand... I've allowed myself to be a bit voyeuristic and checked out how much "friends" you have in your profile. It's 156. + it's also a "reskinned" profile as @Aylen's, which means that you and her manifest perfectly what Joseph Simone deems the "harmony & social role" aspect of the social instinct. You "groom"/manipulate your social self, prep it up and project it outwards, as if expecting to be recognized as (active) players in the game. So nope, no So blind spot there. + I think I'm late with this recognition bc I've already been feeling this topic is just a pretext for social interactions, it's not about people interested in or you allowing them to deeply look under your hood. This whole holding out all these fanciful theories to you on a silver platter (or rather dumping here in long quotes) is just a charade. It's either that someone just likes attention (and pretends not to understand) or that the socials use this whole typology milieu as the pretext for their transactions (and draw it out).
    Last edited by Neokortex; 01-18-2019 at 08:34 PM.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Okay, beyond the parts that I did misunderstand... I've allowed myself to be a bit voyeuristic and checked out how much "friends" you have in your profile. It's 156. + it's also a "reskinned" profile as @Aylen's, which means that you and her manifest perfectly what Joseph Simone deems the "harmony & social role" aspect of the social instinct. You "groom"/manipulate your social self, prep it up and project it outwards, as if expecting to be recognized as (active) players in the game. So nope, no So blind spot there. + I think I'm late with this recognition bc I've already been feeling this topic is just a pretext for social interactions, it's not about people interested in or you allowing them to deeply look under your hood. This whole holding out all these fanciful theories to you on a silver platter (or rather dumping here in long quotes) is just a charade. Women's mag's chatter.
    Reskinned? Meaning I changed the colors? How is that relevant? I like those colors.
    My forum friends list has been accumulated over 10 years and includes a lot of inactives. I don't prune it like I do my Facebook friends.

    Deep interaction would be 1-1. I don't know why you would get the idea that it would be normal for anyone to reveal the mysteries of their heart on a public thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  23. #103
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Well, it's about my memory of my interaction with you. You write that I intimidated you by askinge details about your sex life. Now, there's a history and context missing from that statement. I don't just walk up to people and ask them right away about their sex lives. Or if something similar happened, than there may already have been a conversation in which you were divulging your sex life. I recall asking for more detail about sthing you posted for sone else, yet I don't remember you directly refusing interaction but ghosting me instead. What stayed with me about you is that you were a very elusive, sneaky person who came forth with a bold statement, then were unwilling to back it up.

    I feel that your magnification of this voyeur aspect is to deflect from your exploitation of Enneagram theories for building your social facade online. While it can be impossible that you just didn't feel like answering a stranger, more facts point towards the latter. Facts like you being part of 9 forum groups; then, having your visitor messages and friends page hidden (I'd wager you have a lot, seeing how well you get along with others). These, along with having had various monikers, all suggest that you very consciously lead a very active social life here on 16types. Heck, you may even have multiple accounts.

    And your helpfulness may be also for gaining social status. But insider you're very pragmatic, would leave these people with your debts if found a better group.
    I see you are going to continue with your trolling here as you did in the sx/sp thread. I don't owe you an explanation of why I changed usernames or how many friends I have. I do not have multiple accounts but if you do let me know so I can merge them with this one.

    It’s really great you are still so dense you can’t see the forest for the trees. You can’t distinguish foresight and/or Fe from social instinct and you can’t get a sense of interpersonal distance or take a hint. EII huh? You can start with this and read on if you really want to refresh your memory.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1175017


    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Well, put simply: there's version A: that you're Sx/Sp in a thread where nobody else is and option B: you're not Sx/Sp in a forum where everybody else is. Now the reason I'd opt for A is that cooperation and teamwork is a large part of how humans copycat and pass on culture, share responsibility, maintain systems of infrastructure. Without "being social" fandom would not exist. So if Sx/Sps were to be defined as staunch individualists, then why fandom of the same frame of reference, of the same (lower class) cultural register? It inevitably gets to the point where the spectacle falls apart. In my experience, when you're with an Sx first, it just feels right. You don't get offended on things social types do. Ofc, I'm not saying there aren't all kinds of versions. But for the most part, the patterns here show lust, gluttony 7w8, 8w7, 8w9, 9w8 in its most visceral. And 8 (assertiveness, agression, bravery) is actually really easy to be mistaken for Sx.
    MY RESPONSE:

    In reality it is neither A or B though.

    I agree other things can be mistaken for sx instinct though. I only read some posts on this thread so I am not aware of all the social dynamics or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I'm more aware, though, bc I checked the music videos. People just can't be farther from the empirical counterpart of these theories out there.

    Then we gotta open another Sx/Sp thread for some serious exchange since I couldn't find any other "general" Sx/Sp threads out there. On a 2nd thought, maybe 3 Sx/Sp threads: for Head, Heart & Gut centers.

    Point is: that even though some people seem to "get it," the thread doesn't really contain any Sx/Sp behavior from the part of the users. They aren't locking on each other like some bloodsuckin' goatsuckin' chupacabras. If you get my drift. I asked you a question before about your own real life sx/sp behavior, you had mentioned some experimenting tricks on people-thing but you completely ignored it. Same thing here, opening up instead of speaking about something removed from their private self would require more intimacy btw the members. Would you be so kind and break the ice Miss Aylen? Bouncing ideas is okay but I think there're some who come here to meet other Sx/Sps. For Real. To hunt down a partner. :-P Find a friend.
    MY RESPONSE:

    I remember you asked me for something in another thread when I was not really in a mood for sharing. You might have gotten a response if you asked in pm. Depending on whether or not I was feeling open. I don't personally come to this thread looking for other sx/sp. I can't feel forced to open up or connect. That might cause me to shut down. It is something that happens spontaneously and organically. Opening up to the whole forum does not feel "intimate" or comfortable in any way. I know I have posted quite a few things that people might take as oversharing but, generally, I think about those posts, soon after, then delete them.

    I feel my posts are usually measured so I don't alienate myself completely. Like I said I don't feel a lot of people can relate to my experiences but those who do, or want to, end up finding me. I am not looking for any social approval. It is nice when someone relates but it is more about self expression for me. I have been very open about myself with select people on this forum and as far as I am concerned those are the people who cared enough to get to know me and not use me as a social experiment.

    So anyway while I was responding to you I hit some weird key combination that caused this to pop up full screen. I don't even know where it came from but it was a freaky enough coincidence that I feel compelled to share it. :/



    I have ghosts...

    Edit: I am sure of my stacking but being sx/sp does not mean I want to merge/connect with EVERYONE.

    You retyped me both sp/sx 5 and a soc 9 later in another post. Your responses and posts in the sx/sp were nothing more than begging for some social interaction and finding new friends according to you. You wanted to socialize and connect. I told you then there were other threads for that and people were just expressing their perception of the instinct in that thread so you asked me about mine. You first said it was more likely I was the only sx/sp in a thread of socials. When I didn’t give you what you wanted a battletyping ensued between us until I had enough of you and pretty much told you to fuck off. Then you went on to ask some other woman about her boobs in the thread.

    No offense but you are not skilled enough to gaslight me with your trolling. Go watch Beauty and the Beast for the 100th time instead of posting your incoherent opinions in a thread meant to sort the misconceptions.

    Do you think all this validates your self typing of,
    “EII
    Tritype (9)461: 4w3 so/sp 6w7 sx/sp 1w2 sp/so(?)- classical "modern liberal" social taboo / cultural critic”?

    Better get sol’s approval first or it doesn’t count. How you see yourself as the expert on sx/sp or sexual instinct is beyond me.

    I guess that is up to the reader to decide if you are. I don’t need your help with typing myself. We all have all three instincts and it is a matter of prioritizing. I know what I prioritize and I have used the material for self development.

    What you are doing is a ploy you use to get others to keep interacting. If you think my ability to read you is just social instinct then refer back to my first paragraph above. Seriously put your typings of others in the appropriate threads whether it is enneagram or socionics and let DA have this thread to sort misconceptions and her instincts since you are only adding more nonsense as usual. I don't do tritype anymore just so you know. The details are in the enneagram thread.

    If you want me to move this to enneagram typing thread @Director Abbie I will.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I found this video through shift network too. This goes a bit more into the instincts than the other one. FTR Katherine uses subtypes instead of instincts and Russ comments on the instincts being different than the subtypes.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  26. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Here's another source.
    There's a chart.


    But a couple people, including my best friend, think so/sx is a good fit for me, and I did relate to Aylen's description of that stacking. So I think I'll go with that, @VenusRose.
    But Aylen's description of sp-blindness must be wrong.
    Here's another source lol. http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/subtypes.html

    There are three fundamental instincts in human existence: the self-preserving (survival), the social and the sexual. You are governed by every one of these instincts, of course, but one of them will dominate your life. The instinct dominating you is the one that is the most DAMAGED of the three, where you are the least in touch with your essence, where you have the least access to that effortless flow the Zen archer uses to hit his target without aiming. In a three-party system, it is the one which carries the voice. In a family with three children, it is that crippled child who needs the most attention. It is where you are leaking essence the most dangerously. It is where you waste the most energy, while resisting the flow of essence. But just as you can change your enslaving passion into liberating virtue, your gravest deficiency can turn into the greatest fulfillment, and your most damaged instinct can become your most healed. Free-flowing instinct is pure energy.
    The dominant instinct is to our basic nature what the ruling passion is to the personality type. It seems to me that our priorities are set on a more fundamental, primary, immutable level as defined by our instincts than as determined by our personality-based value system, and that a successful relationship may be more dependent on shared instinctual drives than on any particular match of our ennea types.
    The self-preserving instinct represents the lowest and the sexual the highest energy level. However, neither this ranking nor any other differentiation of the ITs constitutes a value judgement, just as the ennea types are all equal to one another. Early on, I detected a tendency in many to classify themselves as the sexual IT, as if a certain desirability was attached to it. It may help to be reminded that your dominating instinct is the one which is the most impaired.
    Although, damaged/impaired and weakness aren't the same thing. Do you agree or disagree with that interpretation, that the dominant instinct is the damaged one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Here's another source lol. http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/subtypes.html

    There are three fundamental instincts in human existence: the self-preserving (survival), the social and the sexual. You are governed by every one of these instincts, of course, but one of them will dominate your life. The instinct dominating you is the one that is the most DAMAGED of the three, where you are the least in touch with your essence... In a three-party system, it is the one which carries the voice. In a family with three children, it is that crippled child who needs the most attention. ... It is where you waste the most energy... But...your gravest deficiency can turn into the greatest fulfillment, and your most damaged instinct can become your most healed.
    The self-preserving instinct represents the lowest and the sexual the highest energy level. However, neither this ranking nor any other differentiation of the ITs constitutes a value judgement, just as the ennea types are all equal to one another. Early on, I detected a tendency in many to classify themselves as the sexual IT, as if a certain desirability was attached to it. It may help to be reminded that your dominating instinct is the one which is the most impaired.
    Although, damaged/impaired and weakness aren't the same thing. Do you agree or disagree with that interpretation, that the dominant instinct is the damaged one?
    I like that description. I agree with the interpretation. I was getting that sort of idea myself but it hadn't fully formulated.

    I looked at the site's descriptions too. And in general, the sp looks boring, the so looks iffy, and the the sx looks dorky.
    I didn't relate to any of the overviews. I could kind of relate to the idealized so image, and to both the sx and so dilemmas.

    Aversion to:
    • SP: Living
    • SO: Relating
    • SX: Sex
    Aversion to sex? That's me!

    Get cookies from:
    • SP: Safety, security
    • SO: Popularity, fame
    • SX: Closeness, intimacy
    sx on this too.

    But the fear category is so.

    Sex:
    • SP: Sensuous
    • SO: Friendly
    • SX: Imaginary
    What's this supposed to mean?

    At a party:
    • SP: What’s there to eat and drink? Why is it so hot in here? This chair is bad for my back!
    • SO: Am I wearing the right clothes? Who are the right people to talk to? What’s the right thing to say?
    • SX: What am I doing here? (scans the room looking for the one right person; ends up in a corner talking to one person)
    Hey, there's sort of an order for me on this. I might have some so when I first go in. But who's to say everyone else isn't wearing the wrong clothes instead of me? That's arbitrary.
    Once I'm in I have the sx focus but eventually devolve to the sp.
    So when one becomes futile I switch to another. And the first pretty much starts out as futile.

    Chances are your dominant instinct is NOT:
    • SP: If food is no big deal for you
    • SO: If gatherings are no big deal for you
    • SX: If sex is no big deal for you
    Hm.

    Type 1
    • SP: Anxiety (catastrophic expectations, sense of incompleteness)
    • SO: Rigidity (inadaptability, inflexibility)
    • SX: Jealousy (rivalry centered around perfection; explosive expression or total repression of criticalness)
    Well, historically speaking, the only one I've related to is rigidity.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I just came across this again. I believe it is from one of the workshops given by Russ. He referred to the weakness being in the third instinct in the video so if you are going by weakness it would be the blindspot.

    The first instinct is the strongest force in the personality. It is usually where most of our "unexplainable" bad behaviour occurs. We focus on all 3 elements of this instinct.

    With the second instinct, we focus on maybe 2 of the 3 elements of it. We sometimes use the strategy of the first instinct to meet the needs of the second instinct. This rarely goes well.

    ​The third (last or bottom) variant in the stack is can be called one's “blind spot”—it is akin to an unused muscle that on occasion feels sore. One believes that this area is uninteresting and unimportant, that one can do without it. At the same time, there is shame associated with the 'blind spot' variant - a sense of deficiency. One constantly feels like one is lacking skills and refinement in the areas pertaining to your last instinct.

    Often a negative reaction develops in response to seeing your last instinct operate in others. For example, SP-last people might grow impatient with those who devote a lot of time and effort into making themselves well fed and comfortable - fiddling with the room temperature, checking seat cushions, arranging their bottled water, etc. SP-last people can grow bored if they find themselves trapped in a conversation about food, home decorations or furniture, local deals, home prices, salaries. SX-last people might feel uneasy when they see people openly demonstrating their sexuality, gender orientation or sexual preferences, engaging in PDA, discussing private feelings and experiences, etc. SO-last people might get impatient with 'shallow' socialite chit-chat, get frustrated when required to network, and wonder how others can keep up with so many acquaintances. One takes the dominant instinct as a given and believes that everyone should be this way, hence people become surprised and even frustrated when they meet others who show no concern for their primary area of preoccupation.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Sexuality isn't part of someone's Sexual instinct? You know, words have meaning, and the terms weren't chosen at random.


    Without the sexual aspect there is no Sexual instinct.

    Is there a Social instinct without the social aspect, is there a Self Preservation instinct without the self preservation aspect? If your answer to this is no, then the same goes for the Sexual instinct. If your answer is yes, then I am very delighted to read how you would rationalize that!
    I get your point but don't you think you're being awfully literal here? You can still be sx without sex, and I think that's what people are getting at. Here's a passage from Lolita that I think shows this, as the way it's described is totally sx but it's not sex, because, well in this scene they're kids! It's Humbert looking back on his life. There is definitely a "sexual" aspect to the scene, but I hope you get my point.

    “All at once we were madly, clumsily, shamelessly, agonizingly in love with each other; hopelessly, I should add, because that frenzy of mutual possession might have been assuaged only by our actually imbibing and assimilating every particle of each other's soul and flesh; but there we were, unable even to mate as slum children would have so easily found an opportunity to do so.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    So, sexual energy too can be redirected. It's still lust, but could be in regards to ideas, wanting to gobble up every little piece of information of the ideas you're deeply drawn to, immersing yourself in the seeking, or problems so engaging you get excited just considering them and that you could spend years sorting them out and trying to solve them without growing tired of it. Or activities that you want to spend every waking moment engaged in, perfecting. That same drive is redirected into other areas then.
    I'm very much like this. Do you find this is only common with sx types or could other instinctual types be predisposed to act this way? It's a very insatiable thing for me too. Even when I try to put it down and do something else, I find myself being helplessly drawn back to it. I really wish I could turn it off sometimes, but I never can.

    If you direct it towards your friends there will be strong components of that hunger there, wanting to pull them in closer and closer wanting to know every crevice of their heart and mind in a way that nobody else could and selfishly guarding that from anyone else. Lust is the underlying pull in sx, a sense of "I want all of this person/idea/activity" which is why it's called sx.
    I'm not really like this towards friends, because truthfully I don't find my friends all that interesting. Maybe one or two, and I love our interactions together, but most not much, and I can be a bit closed off to those other friends too. In this sense, I can be a bit possessive (that's a bit strong of a word, but I do feel that's an element of sx) with those special friends, where I want them to have all their focus on me, and only have love for me, and no other friends, so like you say, I selfishly guard that, but I don't have to know every crevice of their heart and mind either.

    With sx, it feels more like a hooking mechanism. Do you agree? I'm always searching for that "thing" that draws me in, hooks me, and then once I find it, I'm totally into it, in very unhealthy ways. It's very selective. I don't really think of it as lust per se because it's a lot more mental for me. Would that still be sx or something else?

    I also don't really think of myself as a "sexual" person. I do not have sex dripping from my eyes, at least I don't think so, or feel I have to look hot and sexy, because I'm not really looking for a mate at the moment. If I was, I would put more energy into it, and certainly wouldn't want to not look hot towards potential partners, but is that really a requirement for sx? What if you were married or already in a relationship? You wouldn't necessarily be sending out mating call signals then either. I know that this wasn't your point, but I don't see why it has to be a requirement for one to be sx and seems to be focusing too much on external appearances, not that there aren't differences in how the types appear too but seems a bit restrictive.
    Last edited by Blue; 01-20-2019 at 06:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    I'm very much like this. Do you find this is only common with sx types or are other instinctual types not predisposed to act this way? It's a very insatiable thing for me too. Even when I try to put it down and do something else, I find myself being helplessly drawn back to it. I really wish I could turn it off sometimes, but I never can.
    I do think that our instincts work in all aspects of our lives, and that is the sx drive so to speak, so those with lower drive would not experience this as much imo. Everyone has and uses all 3 of the instincts like the video @Aylen posted went into, so any kind of passionate interest has elements of sx in it. However, I think those with sx primary are the ones who go full-on obsessive about things like you said, "being helplessly drawn back"

    I'm not really like this towards friends, because truthfully I don't find my friends all that interesting. Maybe one or two, and I love our interactions together, but most not much, and I can be a bit closed off to those other friends too. In this sense, I can be a bit possessive (that's a bit strong of a word, but I do feel that's an element of sx) with those special friends, where I want them to have all their focus on me, and only have love for me, and no other friends, so like you say, I selfishly guard that, but I don't have to know every crevice of their heart and mind either.
    Well, with my friends, it's mostly social instinct in play. I want to connect, and be with them, enjoy their company and get to know them, and it's not in the same way that I would if I was interested in them romantically. I really only go all-in when the people are romantic interests. Trust, understanding and a sense of togetherness or camaraderie with someone is really what I like about platonic friendships, and all of those things fall into the social realm. (I added an sx-friendship explanation because some people were saying they directed their sx into their friendships. Mine goes into my mental interests and my romantic relationships but not noticeably into my friendships)

    With sx, it feels more like a hooking mechanism. Do you agree? I'm always searching for that "thing" that draws me in, hooks me, and then once I find it, I'm totally into it, in very unhealthy ways. It's very selective. I don't really think of it as lust per se, though, because it's a lot more mental for me. Would that still be sx or something else?
    Yes, I agree, and do think that it can be mental as well. It's a draw or a hook like you said, something that pulls you in completely.

    I also don't really think of myself as a "sexual" person. I do not have sex dripping from my eyes, at least I don't think so, or feel I have to look hot and sexy, because I'm not really looking for a mate at the moment. If I was, I would put more energy into it, and certainly wouldn't want to not look hot towards potential partners, but is that really a requirement for sx? What if you were married or already in a relationship? You wouldn't necessarily be sending out mating call signals then either. I know that this wasn't your point, but I don't see why it has to be a requirement for one to be sx and seems to be focusing too much on external appearances, not that there aren't differences in how the types appear too but seems a bit restrictive.
    I agree with all of this as well. I don't think that looking sexy or provocative is a requirement, especially because it is selective, and like you said if you already have someone why would you still be sending out all those signals? I think though that there's an energy involved, and it's not even necessarily physical, it's not what a person looks like nor is it about being physically attractive in general, it's about libido in the psychological sense not the physical sense, as in an energy propelling you towards (or away from) something or someone. I think this can also be in areas other than interpersonal relationships, but I think this energy can be read by others, that it comes out especially when you're focused on your interest, but is still apparent in the background otherwise to those who are aware of it.

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    I think that "sex dripping out of eyes" is more in the eye of the beholder.
    Just imagine an Sx 5 struting their stuff tryn'a get laid... Some types are much more about mind connection than genital connection.
    Sx is attraction, but also repulsion. Not interested, no merging.

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    I’ve fought with and mocked you guys several times before (more with a previous account) but I just discovered and actually really like your Twitter @Volcana . Just wanted to say that.

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    Some of your art is also really funny lol. Please make more.

    These are my favourites:

    http://ericaxenne.com/wp-content/gal...ana/tiggy5.jpg

    ”Tiggy5.jpg” LOL

    http://ericaxenne.com/wp-content/gal...agon6small.jpg

    Even if you guys are weird at least you look like you’re having fun so I’m slightly more inclined to take your ideas more seriously, ironically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I do think that our instincts work in all aspects of our lives, and that is the sx drive so to speak, so those with lower drive would not experience this as much imo. Everyone has and uses all 3 of the instincts like the video @Aylen posted went into, so any kind of passionate interest has elements of sx in it. However, I think those with sx primary are the ones who go full-on obsessive about things like you said, "being helplessly drawn back"
    Ok, that was my hunch as well. I just didn't know if that was the case in experience. For the most part I have not seen sx lasts being this obsessive about things. They're always more responsible than I tend to be. I've noticed so/sx and sp/sx types have a quality of obsessiveness to them more than sx lasts too.

    Well, with my friends, it's mostly social instinct in play. I want to connect, and be with them, enjoy their company and get to know them, and it's not in the same way that I would if I was interested in them romantically. I really only go all-in when the people are romantic interests. Trust, understanding and a sense of togetherness or camaraderie with someone is really what I like about platonic friendships, and all of those things fall into the social realm. (I added an sx-friendship explanation because some people were saying they directed their sx into their friendships. Mine goes into my mental interests and my romantic relationships but not noticeably into my friendships)
    Yes, I am the same. I do sometimes find myself being attracted to certain friends, even if I'm not interested in them for the purpose of a romantic relationship, if that connection or spark is there. Friends can sometimes get the wrong impression based on that too.

    Yes, I agree, and do think that it can be mental as well. It's a draw or a hook like you said, something that pulls you in completely.

    I agree with all of this as well. I don't think that looking sexy or provocative is a requirement, especially because it is selective, and like you said if you already have someone why would you still be sending out all those signals? I think though that there's an energy involved, and it's not even necessarily physical, it's not what a person looks like nor is it about being physically attractive in general, it's about libido in the psychological sense not the physical sense, as in an energy propelling you towards (or away from) something or someone. I think this can also be in areas other than interpersonal relationships, but I think this energy can be read by others, that it comes out especially when you're focused on your interest, but is still apparent in the background otherwise to those who are aware of it.
    Can you say more about this, or give an example of how this energy looks to others ("I think this energy can be read by others")? I think I know what you mean, but perhaps to make it more concrete. Thanks a lot for your response!

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I think that "sex dripping out of eyes" is more in the eye of the beholder.
    Just imagine an Sx 5 struting their stuff tryn'a get laid... Some types are much more about mind connection than genital connection.
    Sx is attraction, but also repulsion. Not interested, no merging.
    Exactly lol.
    Last edited by Blue; 01-20-2019 at 10:35 PM.

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    I’ve been wondering about this for days (obsession and sx), first when I saw on another thread, and then it got brought up here. So I figured I might as well comment.

    Basically I’m a pretty obsessive person, sometimes to my own detriment, and I’m almost certain I’m sx last. I started getting like this when I was pretty young and would get obsessed about a topic, a book genre, a person, or even collecting things. I feel like I’d zone in on that thing and everything else would disappear. I couldn’t turn it off. I think it’s even scared people off before lol. They thought it was weird I think because I could get interested in some pretty esoteric stuff. I lost my childhood best friend over me being like this, but I think I tried being (a bit) more discreet about it after that. But if I get into a topic, I’ll for instance read a ton of books on it, and I’ll likely read them fast, like maybe 3 a week, and find everything I can on google about it. I have to let myself burn out. Sometimes it takes a while to do.

    So, yeah, I don’t get it. I thought either I’m not sx last (not likely), people that can be sx last can be obsessive (which I think is true), this is a manifestation of bigger issues for me (which might also be true), or perhaps the nature of my obsessions is different than those experienced with sx (possibly true), but I see it as both a gift and a curse since I have learned a lot from my obsessive nature.
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    @aster What makes you say you're Sx-blindspot, just out of curiosity?
    EII-INFj / INFP / 4w5 5w4 9w1

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    @aster What makes you say you're Sx-blindspot, just out of curiosity?
    Well

    At first I thought I was SO blind, but then I realized I actually pay a lot of attention to SO, even though sometimes I resent social stuff. I like to know ‘what’s going on in the world’, the latest trends, what other people are doing. Where I fit in, if I fit in, and I feel kind of blinded if I don’t know. I think a lot of it is the way I was raised. I think my mom shoved it down my throat. It’s very likely she’s SO first. She made me very insecure when I was younger focusing on popularity, and at the same time telling me it didn’t really matter. I like to tell myself I don’t care what other people think, but I think secretly I do, but sometimes I will do or say things a little too honest to kind of shock, or even secretly mock them, because I think it’s hilarious. So there is some push and pull there with my social instinct. I feel like mainly I’m an observer.

    My main focus seems to be SP, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. I guess most would say I’m pretty grounded and practical minded.

    As for sx, I was never much interested in having a relationship when I was younger. A lot of my friends had boyfriends (a lot), but I was not interested in having a relationship that wasn’t going anywhere. I had a hard time finding people I was attracted to, and am very picky. I’m also kind of a prude and not much of a sexual person. I am also not the type of person to get a divorce. I’m a bit old fashioned, you could say. My husband is my HS boyfriend and I took our relationship very seriously from the beginning. I have my family and they are like my tribe, and very important to me. Of course my husband is my favorite person and we know each other very well, and have been through a lot together. If I lost him I think it would kill me. He’s basically my rock & best friend. And he’s also very much like me in some ways. We have a very similar approach to relationships, values, and goals, where I think it really counts. But as far as intensity, passion. I’m not into those things. They actually make me feel kind of awkward. I’ve always felt really out of touch with my own sexuality, and don’t even like the term sexuality to be honesty. This whole subject is very awkward for me and and I don’t talk about it or like hearing others talk about. I feel very awkward about a lot of these things and probably seem pretty ‘repressed’. I’ve heard that one a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Can you say more about this, or give an example of how this energy looks to others ("I think this energy can be read by others")? I think I know what you mean, but perhaps to make it more concrete. Thanks a lot for your response!
    I'm not really sure how to put something like energy into more concrete terms. When I try it often just sounds wrong. Galen once posted some instinct stacking composites. And that showed how he typed people and how he saw the kind of energy each instinct stacking gave off. So you're reading something in their faces and expressions and body language that gives you a feel for where they're coming from and what they're focused on. Looking through those composite threads would probably give a better idea of what people are seeing and reading.

    I guess it's kind of like when you're watching a competition, and you can read the mindset of the competitors, and can tell who wants it the most - there's something about the way they're dialed in that you can read on their face, and in their body language, where you can tell who is serious and who isn't. And you can see that there are degrees of that. You're noticing and reading the kind of energy they're giving off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
    I've never met anyone that cares more about losing their place in the big, wide community than about their close friendships and having a partner. It would require serious illness to be that far removed from deep connection.
    Soc instinct is not a mental illness or a 'problem with depth.' Being Soc dominant doesnt mean you care more about communities than people you're close to.
    Soc is actually the instinct that cares most about deep connection between two humans.

    I'm Sx/So, the love of my life is @Samson, blatantly Soc last. He really is not that taken with "connecting." The eros is high between us, and he does trust me and open up to me 100% - we have no lack of trust. But sometimes I have to remind him to get out of his personal corner to 'Share' - to remind him that we also need to bond.

    He loves this about me, as it is a basic human need; but he's just not as good at recognizing it. But he's very high Sx, so he does merge with the fascinating and alluring qualities about me, like getting deep into my fantasy novel, both dressing up to impress and allure the other, etc.
    So agree.

    IMO

    So also has a mental hierarchy of who is more "important" in your world. It's not like sx, that immediate tug where you throw away what you're doing to chase the energy (is that sx?) It's more calculated, an awareness that you only have so much time so some people have to be put above others. If sx is in the second position, chemistry would play a big part in that, although things like loyalty, responsibility, would still be at the forefront.

    That's why some so ppl freak out over things like slow response times - anything to signal that they got "devalued"

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