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Thread: New trying at DCNH

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    Default New trying at DCNH

    More typically socionical post compared to the other one....



    What DCNH I'm ?

    I can't determine, seriously.

    The only thing I'm sur is that I'm not normalizer.

    There is strong possibility to creative , a possibility to dominant, and harmonizer stay possible.

    Perhaps it can be determined with my last post, idk ?

    not getting too technical :

    creative : Ive creative pursuit and generally interested into creativity, but I don't recognize myself in the "no need to share to other your creation". I was recognizing this into myself at first but I feel like with experience it's just how I wanted to appear because it corresponded of "how I should be if I wanted to have creative pursuit". Not lying, I like social recognition of my work, Ive a soundcloud, I like playing in party, I organized public event for showing the work we was into. Plus I feel like lacking a little real stability, aside in social situation. At first I identified this with creative subtype. My lack of real stability in the past was confirming a little this, but atm it seem to have changed, I'm more stable and agreeing with my goal, less conflicted, and changed my goal to be interested into position like management (but I doubt Ill succeed at it). I feel an annoying energy to always express myself (not IRL, especially in writing format on web things, or IRL in conversation into some subject). I tend often to be more "corrector" than "direct", and reevaluating my moral with information. Of example my grandfather is INFJ creative and he work only for himself seemingly searching for something. This is sad in a way bc he have composed excellent things for piano.

    Dominant : Ive a obsessive life goal, except some social recognition for it, but at the same time Ive the idea at least marginally of "creating for myself". I don't feel that dominant in term that dominant would take the lead probably with political term for my type. I don't push ppl following myself, just hoping that Ill find a group where I can never ended motivated and motive the same way everyone (this is a little what Ive done with my ex fiance : after working on music and getting somewhat known for it -at my level-, I tried to make her having a goal and give energy bc I felt like it have been good for my developpement). Imo it correspond me more IRL. Have strong moral about things but not necesseraly knowledge wich validate it (aside when it come to how ppl act, where I correct ppl with the basis of how I see things morally)

    harmonizing : over sensibility to stuff, too much interested into being good in interpersonnal stuff, ability to forget myself for harmonization of other relationship (but often failing miserably). Ive definitely a "corrector" side, but it's not natural in term that I overplay it. ive seen harmonizer, in them it seem a natural things wich go with their personnality, they don't impose their correction with being forcefull. What is cool with harmonizer is that you can have discussion with approx everything but they don't like my "overplaying stuff" way of behaving. I feel like I need to stay calm with them and not going political, wich don't generally correspond to how I'm behaving.

    normalizer : my ex fiance was normalizing, and whitout speaking about the stability, independance, I don't recognize myself into being the "person who always say the micro thing wich you can take agreably into account" like she was, I'm more "abrasive" in a way. Ive seen INFJ normalizer, they seem to be political for the wrong reason, political in the "warning to this little thing" that I don't recognise in myself. Thought IRL it could correspond me sometime. I'm absolutely not into "my stuff my stuff my stuff" as normalizer seem to be. What I really like with normalizer is that I feel I can speak with them about my minor trouble (or major) and they guenuinly help without ressorting to extreme stuff like "betteringyourself" "change your personnality" "be like myself" like I interpret from ESTJ dominant (with time I finally understood that's just how I interpret stuff)


    basically I feel like Ive dominant and creative trait, less normalizing, and a little of harmonizer.

    In term of dichotomie (inert/contact, etc), Ive hard time to decide, that's why I say stuff as said before, not getting too technical.

    (second thread of this nature for determining my DCNH, sorry for that).

    edit : let's say DCNH exist. I'm myself not sure but assume together it's an axiome.
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-09-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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    Is there INFJ creative here for seeing if I relate ?

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Is there INFJ creative here for seeing if I relate ?
    i think i have the creative subtype

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    What has been driving force in your life? Look at it from a distance.

    Creatives just do not really care about social cohesion being part of the herd and stuff. I'm usually very secretive about my own hobbies. It is usually let's see attitude. It usually comes out when I need to apply it in new places.

    Why should anyone care about me and stuff?


    Dominant should be quite clear as a type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Creatives often have the combination of being extremely social and adventurous and "intense" and but at the same time needing own time and withdrawal. slightly or very eccentric.

    But this is not a definition. Its just something that one can see quote often but not always

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    I dunno how accurate dcnh is. It doesn’t fit everyone. It fits me fine - but not everyone. So recently I have been kind of taking it with a grain of salt.

    I am also not social and adventurous.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I have some videos of EII subtypes. This might help. I've tried to find videos in English, but not all of them are.

    Dominant EII (connecting-contact)
    This is a good example I think. The link should start at 1:34:42 when she starts her speech about eurocentrism in teaching materials.

    Creative EII (ignoring-contact)
    Swedish Author, Carina Rydberg
    Finnish artist, Tove Jansson

    (unfortunately both of them are artists. That will distort the impression a little away from the subtype.)

    Normalizing (ignoring-distant)
    Finnish author Kari Hotakainen seems N-EII. Sorry, no English
    I don't have any more examples, but there should be lots of them out there. I hope somebody else can provide more examples of N-EII, because they are so common.

    Harmonizing (connecting-distant)
    Yohio, Swedish singer. He is actually not an optimal example because he is too much of an artist. Most H subtypes are of course quite ordinary. He's the only H-EII I have though.

    If you are interested I hope you can take a deep look at these examples, because it took me quite a lot of effort to find them. But it requres time. One needs to compare lots of people to get the picture. These examples are not enough though.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    @Tallmo both of them look a little...too much for me. Seem extremely assertive with heavy energy, feels kinda Se though I’m not saying that they aren’t EII.

    Even if they are, I feel like that example is more Se sort of heavy assertive than the Ne sort of more ‘fairy-like’ if you will. They also come across as somewhat D on DCNH, not just C.

    well the second one i didn't watch much of it but it seemed she had a more...authoritative vibe, I could be wrong.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    @Tallmo both of them look a little...too much for me. Seem extremely assertive with heavy energy, feels kinda Se though I’m not saying that they aren’t EII.
    Are you talking about the C examples? That soft old lady sitting is Tove Jansson. She is totally EII. Please take some more time to watch these.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Are you talking about the C examples? That soft old lady sitting is Tove Jansson. She is totally EII.
    The second I wasn't sure which one was the artist the first one still feels way too much to me though.

    Please take some more time to watch these.
    Because of the language, I can't really tell what they are saying so :/

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    In the video I relate more to the dominant except she seem more assertive than myself (as if I was in a prepared presentation). I recognize somewhat myself into the normalizing guy except he seem a bit low key and interested about stuff that aren't interesting myself.

    I'm in a group actually where I try to solve conflict and stopping the neverending relationship problem, sometime forcefully. Is this harmonizing ?

    I'm often interested about idea and read often. Is this creative subtype ?

    Like if I try to reconcile everyone conflict even if it annoy me bc I would like to just speak about some subject.

    I'm not secretive about my hobbies, this is even something I share almost always in my presentation.

    I like speaking politics, criticising some "morally wrong" point of view (like extrem idiot feminism) for example.

    In term of goal Ive the behavior of having a almost obsessive personnal goal that I would like to be somewhat recognized for, even if I currently a little abandonned it (but will go back to it).Dominant ?
    I'm currently reframing my impossible goal to more realistic goal like career plan.

    In all ask me question where you find you can determin my subtype and perhaps we will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    i think i have the creative subtype
    Can you describe your behavior ?

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Can you describe your behavior ?
    Sure, what would you like to know?

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    Hard to say...

    If there us a conflict in a group of friend, what are you trying to do ?

    What's your relation to your creative pursuit ?

    Are you secretive about your hobby as it was said before ?

    Do you except some social recognition (in reality - bypass your moral) for some creation/hobby/work ?

    Are you able to work like time don't exist in the things you are interested into?

    Do you give order for getting what you want or you stay somewhat "perceptive" ?

    What do you feel differenciating to EII dominant if you know some ?

    Have you hard time adapting when things asked don't correspond to your main goal (here it's a little strange in socionic, because theorically dominant have hard time, but creative will too prefer their proper creative pursuit)

    Ive no other question atm
    Im sorry if question are not that great, perhaps I misindurdstood DCNH and I ask only superficial question for comparing to my behavior.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Hard to say...

    If there us a conflict in a group of friend, what are you trying to do ?
    Be gentle and maybe try to make peace if I really know what's going on and don't feel like I am intruding...otherwise I may just detach and talk to the person(s) I am concerned about, later, in person.

    What's your relation to your creative pursuit ?
    ...? I think people can be 'creative' in little ways too, without being talented at something artisitc..so in that I prefer an environment that lets that part of me flourish.

    Are you secretive about your hobby as it was said before ?
    I don't think so

    Do you except some social recognition (in reality - bypass your moral) for some creation/hobby/work ?
    I am not sure what you mean by "bypass your moral." If there is recognition, sure, that's nice.

    Are you able to work like time don't exist in the things you are interested into?
    Probably. I mean, it's 1:36 am here, I didn't even realize...
    I am probably obsessed with socionics right now.
    If I had the freedom to pursue something I am obsessed with I could probably lose myself even more. But I am surrounded by SP firsts who often 'pull me back to the ground' if you will, they seem rather annoyed by my SP-lastness a lot of the time.

    Do you give order for getting what you want or you stay somewhat "perceptive" ?
    I am not sure what you mean

    What do you feel differenciating to EII dominant if you know some ?
    I don't know any EII-D. The D descriptions don't sound like someone I would get along as well with as I would like to..with whoever I am close to. But it could also depend on type

    Have you hard time adapting when things asked don't correspond to your main goal (here it's a little strange in socionic, because theorically dominant have hard time, but creative will too prefer their proper creative pursuit)
    I don't have a hard time adapting
    I have a hard time dealing with narrow-minded, fearful people who may step on my creative ideas and prefer the traditional route.

    Ive no other question atm
    Im sorry if question are not that great, perhaps I misindurdstood DCNH and I ask only superficial question for comparing to my behavior.
    No, the questions aren't superficial I hope the answers are helpful.

    You can ask me more if you would like.

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    Yes. I identify to some, not other.

    Myself haven't good sleep pattern and is often obsessed by things while having free time. I read somewhere it's more an INFJ thing than a DCNH things. Anyway; if I stay up late, it's often for discussing in a group than learning about socionic (it have been in the past, thought).

    At work, thought, Ive not much the behavior of listening to creative stuff but try to get things done in a way. When someone begin to say you can do this for getting that avoiding this problem blah blah but Ive already the conception of my work in my head it annoy me generally. I know it can be somewhat annoying to other. Ive to admit the traditionnal route reassure myself, and if there is a problem you need to be a little creative, that's all.

    In my hobbies, I'm more attracted to succeed into making something great than forcing creativity (route that Ive quickly abandonned bc I thought it's not because of forcing myself to be creative and adding creative stuff that it will be a super product, it end only in a demonstration of whatever but not "harmony" and "good product/'creation" I was trying to make, + the goal is not to impress ppl with the fact I'm doing extra things but doing something wich they can like from my proper style)

    Be gentle and maybe try to make peace if I really know what's going on and don't feel like I am intruding...
    same but I overplay a little this sometime, trying too much

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    Is there video example of regular EII dominant (not a famous ppl or ppl who are already really well into their life ?) for seeing if I relate ?

    Bc I don't relate to the creative one, but I still think Ive strong creative subtype tendencies. I don't relate that much to their aspect as if they was searching for something. For example if I write a book Ill try to demonstrate something but Ill not try to explain bizarrely why Ive done that and how ive make it to reality


    The two main dominant attribute I identify with are :

    - wanting to make myself right in the view of other, pulling attention to myself then correcting other with my view (moral or opinion)
    - having personnal goals, trying to attract ppl with same interest and organize stuff, pushing a little ppl for my proper agenda bc I think it's good for everyone (for example organizing an event where everyone can play music and myself), having hard time when things don't go with my goal (but I adapt) (but Ive hard time to differentiate that with the aspect of creative who are completely into their hobby)

    Main things I identify with creative :

    - trolling, trying at non standard opinion while ignoring ppl (in reality I just want they discuss the stuff with myself, correct me, or finding common ground together), making wall of text on some web place with knowing no one will read just because I need to vent my energy
    - Ive some sort of anxiety and not that much faith in myself like I think a dominant would have
    - being too much in a world of idea

    I really feel beetween the two


    I looked at the 2 subtype system, for the Fi subtype I feel too extraverted for the first part (I express my opinion, etc) of the description but I feel exactly like that for the second part (harmonizing relationship, wanting conflict resolving, doing my max).

    For the Ne subtype I identify with the stuff that I sometime say stuff that I regret later (trolling 500 line then regretting)

    In unknown group setting I don't know how to joke, but with known ppl I joke easily


    help lol
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-11-2019 at 12:07 PM.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    I mean it’s not absolutely necessary to fit into one of the dcnh categories
    sometimes they feel kinda arbitrary to me
    you could also go through the actual description for creative and see how that describes you

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    sometimes they feel kinda arbitrary to me
    Why?


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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Why?
    Like there’s only 4 while there could be so many different combinations based on the basic dichotomies...so why 4? I don’t think everyone fits comfortably into the system either...I feel like maybe some do and some don’t. My poll on the dcnh thing for instance though it doesn’t have a lot of replies, it seems most people don’t find it very useful...
    That I am “Creative” may simply be another expression of my sx/so as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    Like there’s only 4 while there could be so many different combinations based on the basic dichotomies...so why 4? I don’t think everyone fits comfortably into the system either...I feel like maybe some do and some don’t. My poll on the dcnh thing for instance though it doesn’t have a lot of replies, it seems most people don’t find it very useful...
    That I am “Creative” may simply be another expression of my sx/so as well.
    I think the idea was that these are "roles" you can observe people playing in groups. Hell, DCNH can function without Socionics, you can see if someone is dominant rather easily for example.

    But yeah, the number four is supposed to be special or something, in the context of typlology.


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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Creative Subtype
    Everyone wants to be unique. I'm not like that.


    The Creative subtype, conversely, is the least similar to its main type description. It is the most flexible subtype. There is a strong inclination toward "Mirror" type, as though the 1st and 2nd functions have switched places. The introvert is similar to the extravert, and the extravert to the introvert. And in general, all characteristic type features seem to be diluted and watered down for the Creative subtype.


    It seems that for Creative subtype the intertype relations are also "watered down" – as he conducts himself "outside the box" by the standards of his type.


    Creative subtype, one way or another, finds himself in the sphere of ideas and creativity, and this doesn't have to be something artistic – it may well be scientific or a hobby; generally, a creative element is introduced into any pursuit, otherwise the Creative subtype feels uninterested. If someone else's result or product comes into his hand, the Creative subtype will remake, "improve it", think it over.


    For Creative subtype it is easiest to show and realize himself over the 2nd function, but in principle, other variants are possible.


    On another note, if the result or product of the Dominant subtype is immediately demonstrates and "hyped up" – the Creative subtype can easily create "for himself", to write knowing his writing won't get published, or for a narrow circle of those for whom it may be needed or interesting.


    The Creative subtype is not very discerning of various social-relational games, but he doesn't protest if he gets pulled into such a game.


    He easily takes off, "a person with eccentricities", capable of an unusual and generally foreign to his sociotype actions (for example, an LII who doesn't only go hitchhiking himself, but also takes his wife and children along for the trip).


    The Creative subtype is not interested in anything besides that which is truly interesting to him – in the sense that he ignores everything else (passively or actively). Including people (for Creative subtypes of logical types: "those people are like wooden poles"). May actively renounce something if it hinders him personally. By these means, Creative subtype "slips by", since a renounced topic is not important to understand because it's outside the scope of his interests.


    Creative subtype attitude towards norms or standards is negative or indifferent, which is especially clearly displayed on the aspect of role function: that is, a person of Creative subtype does not strive to abide by "generally accepted" standards. (Julia (Balzac) was genuinely surprised at my attempt to wash the fruit bought at the market – what for? At my explanations "So that they are clean", and that "I may eat unwashed fruit, but they should be given to a small child" Julia just waved her hand dismissively.)
    @noaydi can you please comment on how you relate to this..?

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    Everyone wants to be unique. I'm not like that.


    The Creative subtype, conversely, is the least similar to its main type description. It is the most flexible subtype. There is a strong inclination toward "Mirror" type, as though the 1st and 2nd functions have switched places. The introvert is similar to the extravert, and the extravert to the introvert. And in general, all characteristic type features seem to be diluted and watered down for the Creative subtype.


    It seems that for Creative subtype the intertype relations are also "watered down" – as he conducts himself "outside the box" by the standards of his type. Only in the sense I tend to discuss with everyone and try to not be friend with only like minded ppl (even if I strongly prefer the last case)


    Creative subtype, one way or another, finds himself in the sphere of ideas and creativity -more idea than creativity thought-, and this doesn't have to be something artistic – it may well be scientific or a hobby; generally, a creative element is introduced into any pursuit, otherwise the Creative subtype feels uninterested. If someone else's result or product comes into his hand, the Creative subtype will remake, "improve it", think it over.


    For Creative subtype it is easiest to show and realize himself over the 2nd function, but in principle, other variants are possible. --> I can agree with that especially in political/philo/science conversation


    On another note, if the result or product of the Dominant subtype is immediately demonstrates and "hyped up" – the Creative subtype can easily create "for himself", to write knowing his writing won't get published, or for a narrow circle of those for whom it may be needed or interesting. ---- No. I create for expressing my first function and I admitelly try to get social recognition for it, try to be in a group of ppl with same interest and I try to organizing things, pushing a little ppl for moving to doing event that I tried to organize, ameliorating the concept for having a good product to show while trying to keep a good group cohesion. This is what happened when my goal was music. Ive currently the new goal to try to write, effectively I think things like I don't look to be published but for sure I'm writing for being read at the end. This appear narcissistic I just share how I feel the stuff. Often ppl hide the fact they want to be known for their stuff, Ive done that a long time bc I was thinking it was like that if I wanted to be creative but I feel like it's bullshit since I experienced playing in public, having return on my production. My agenda was clearly this even if I wanted to pass as the non narcissistic creator guy. If there is anything I especially don't recognize myself into the creative description, it's this stuff. Rest could almost always correspond to myself especially what Ive bolded


    The Creative subtype is not very discerning of various social-relational games, but he doesn't protest if he gets pulled into such a game.


    He easily takes off, "a person with eccentricities", capable of an unusual and generally foreign to his sociotype actions (for example, an LII who doesn't only go hitchhiking himself, but also takes his wife and children along for the trip). ->> why not, but marginal


    The Creative subtype is not interested in anything besides that which is truly interesting to him – in the sense that he ignores everything else (passively or actively). Including people (for Creative subtypes of logical types: "those people are like wooden poles"). May actively renounce something if it hinders him personally. By these means, Creative subtype "slips by", since a renounced topic is not important to understand because it's outside the scope of his interests.


    Creative subtype attitude towards norms or standards is negative or indifferent, which is especially clearly displayed on the aspect of role function: that is, a person of Creative subtype does not strive to abide by "generally accepted" standards. (Julia (Balzac) was genuinely surprised at my attempt to wash the fruit bought at the market – what for? At my explanations "So that they are clean", and that "I may eat unwashed fruit, but they should be given to a small child" Julia just waved her hand dismissively.) -->why not sometime
    fff
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-11-2019 at 06:44 PM.

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    Dominant

    The brightest, most vivid subtype -- within the limits of type, and in general.

    Most similar of all to his type's description. Nuance:
    the Dominant introvert is more extraverted
    (especially not in a socionics understanding, but in Eysenck’s understanding, i.e. lively, sociable, and outgoing), but still displays pronounced characteristic features of his type. If the normal introvert, upon getting tired of communicating, will just go "hide in a corner", the Dominant will drive everyone away and still be grumbling loudly, saying, "Everyone keeps walking around here!" ---> I'm not aware of this but this is a little the case in discord group I am. Sometime I feel like it's in the negative form as I take too much place and I imagine ppl being better without me


    He is the most realized, especially in the socio-cultural sphere; I think that most famous people, i.e. well-known actors, writers, politicians, etc. fall into the Dominant subtype.
    In a group he is also the most (bright, strong, intelligent -- depending on the base type). The logical is "the most intelligent", the ethical is the most excitable -- possible, but I don't have sufficient recoil on myself for seeing this, the sensor occupies the most space. That is, the sphere of his "achievements" and the specific way in which he attracts attention to himself and becomes the leader depends on his type. Dominants take the leadership explicitly, especially if they are ethical, sensing, or extraverted. Logical-intuitives do not always deliberately seek to lead, but must: "so that no idiots can order me around".

    If the Dominant leaves the room, the impression created is that not just one person left, but a large portion of the people.

    Among people of the Dominant subtype, if they are stuck in one group, there is strong competition, even if their intertype relationship is quite comfortable, and there is no serious "reason for fighting".

    The easiest way to say it is that the Dominant, firstly, pulls attention to himself, and secondly, "gives orders" -yes I do that but not necessarely give order but express myself and say this is good this is bad and stuff- very annoying behavior of mine, bc I'm aware it often turn off ppl. Furthermore, he is blunt, if he uses some sort of manipulation, it is rather crude. Usually he just says what he needs from you. It infuriates everyone except Normalizers. In commanding and giving orders, Dominant does not just give out the task, but also his confidence -possible, that's a little how I made for organizing music fest when we was into it- -- he provides the energy to perform that task. It is possible to "go a long way" on his energy, simply join his initiatives and help him implement them (but, of course, go only in the direction where the Dominant needs you to).

    Strangely enough, the Dominant responds calmly to minor quibbles, to requests (from Normalizing) to adhere to a specific order -I can't stand for long time ESTJ dominant bc I feel like their view need to be the universal view but have good relation to ESTJ normalizer due to that - they tend to notice and want to correct small things in my behavior even if the behavior is completely bad but it make strong impact on myself and help me for real-. And they may even actually adhere to it! If there is no Normalizing nearby, the whole tangled mess is sent to the furnace or into the trash, and all matters.

    In his 1st function the Dominant works "at full steam" and even more. In that sense, it's not just hidden somewhere processing information -- in Dominant it is evident at all times. If this is Te, he is not just busy all the time: he is working on three jobs, and in between speaks and teaches others what they should do. If, however, he does not work, he thinks and does various actions in his imagination, and then, once again, speaks about it, aloud and loudly, with confidence and an air of authority. (For this display, you need to multiply the usual manifestations of the base functions times three)

    I don't think I'm that healthy thought. My goal are badly choosed.

    Basically I feel beetween the two.

    Re speaking about the music stuff, I organized and helped to organize 3 party, I managed to make the most of what would be played conceptualy in term of djing, motivating ppl to not abandon and doing uninteresting stuff that I imagined would be cool for the public. This can still be creative behavior I think since I didn't look for completely mainstream stuff. I was concentrated on the goal I wanted to make real.

    On the other side, I'm often resolving conflict beetween ppl and stuff as I the story I shared into my other post.

    I'm not speaking about work situation bc I didn't had other position than executant, basicallly at work I do my best to be normalizer but this annoy me, perhaps I'm a bad normalizer too. In work situation Ive too the role of the guy who try to give idea to improve stuff, and sometime be a little too close minded wanting to do stuff my way
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-11-2019 at 06:36 PM.

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    + seeeing how currently I help ppl almost sacrificaly I'm asking myself if I'm harmonizing lol

    impossible problem

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    Most important is the weather in the house…Quite lively and recognizable by his main type's description, however, in comparison with the classic type description he is "suspiciously" nice. It seems that the negative traits of a sociotype have no relation to the harmonizing subtype.
    Soft and delicate; although these qualities are somewhat limited by the capabilities of the type. That is, an ethical type of Harmonizing subtype is usually a very ethical person. He always wants to do something so that everyone is well. Even a logical type, but with logical type for some reason it turns out to be "he wanted to do best, but it turned out as always".
    In contrast to the Normalizing-Dominant dyad, Harmonizing and Creative is a complementary pair with a "delicate structure of the soul". Especially, of course, the Harmonizing subtype: sensitive, worrying, touchy, altruistic, self-sacrificing.
    Like the Dominant subtype, the Harmonizing subtype functions as a connector, that is, he establishes the necessary links to the environment. But where Dominant does so crudely and directly, Harmonizing does so by careful manipulation (he is capable of manipulation that provides multiple moves, for the purpose of making another person become well). --basically feeling like I'm doing the two approach-
    The Harmonizing subtype monitors social desirability and conforms to it. ("A gentleman is that man who calls a cat a cat, even having stepped on it in darkness…") This especially applies to relational and gender stereotypes. Moreover, if the Harmonizing subtype has armed himself with a gender stereotype, he doesn't simply behave in accordance with it, but moves it closer to an ideal. This is the Ideal Man ("I'm going to earn money for my beloved!") or an Ideal Woman.
    The Harmonizing subtype doesn't really want to do something "for himself". Now, if it was for a close person, then – anything they wish. Always ready to help, to go for agreements and compromises, often thereby inconveniencing himself. Often he lives with a sensation of discomfort and stress, and consciously goes for this. If something is coming together on its own - this isn't sufficiently valuable to him. But if he does something for someone else, that's he didn't wish to do - this will be a significant Good Deed (exemple : wanting a girl but understanding she don't want me but a friend of mine have more chance and are almost together so I help). Therefore Harmonizers are often doing something with their painful function. When people talk about PoLR as a "secondary creative function", this is about Harmonizing subtype.
    The Harmonizing subtype cannot stand it when anyone argues or scolds, or disharmonizes their environment somehow. -no, I'm getting nervous with other too lol- Here again he tries to help, to fix the situation, since it makes him feel badly -no, bc I want to help the situation of my friend. I can support feeling bad, conflict happen-.
    He is well aware of how he must behave so that others won't feel badly -no lol-. Evaluates those around him from the point of view of the ethicalness of their behavior, strives to educate them. Worries and feels himself bad if he has committed some unethical act (guilt, yes, even if it's often excuse but I feel right at core).
    The Harmonizing subtype finds it difficult to insult people "directly", to fault and accuse a person even if he/she has deserved it. He either tries to express his displeasure and resentment delicately, or he keeps silent and sulks. Even when it is already evident that he thinks poorly of someone, it is put across something like this: "I think poorly of you, but for the sake of our good relationship, I won't say anything about it -it happened but not to this magnitude-". As a result, a "delicate hint" coming from harmonizing can be much more offensive than a direct "attack". For example: "Thank you for the lack of birthday congratulations. It was very nice, ladies and gentlemen." The Dominant subtype would have said: "It's my birthday! Quickly, everybody congratulate me!" And no problem…
    Or another situation - a guest hasn't taken off his shoes at the entrance as the home owner would have liked. The Dominant subtype puts a stop to this business at the root: you won't have time to enter, you will immediately be told where to remove your boots -identifiying with that-. ("Where are you going? Stop! - they will say.) The Normalizing subtype will mutter to the side: "Why is it that everyone walks in their boots past the green rug, which is is the size of the entire lobby?" (and he himself will put the shoes where they must go). The Creative subtype might not notice anything; or he will notice, but consider it too unimportant to say anything about it. But the Harmonizing subtype will keep silent out of delicacy, but will remember: "how could a guest enter in his shoes, is he a bad person? lol no, but it could be cool for not taking into account some of my bad behavior sometime lol!"
    kl

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    So with all that perhaps its will be easier to determine my DCNH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I think the idea was that these are "roles" you can observe people playing in groups. Hell, DCNH can function without Socionics, you can see if someone is dominant rather easily for example.

    But yeah, the number four is supposed to be special or something, in the context of typlology.
    I want to add that these role manifest especially in group of the same type. For example, someone who is higher in social hierarchy will often take the lead even if there are other dominant

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    is DCNH VIable ?
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-11-2019 at 08:10 PM.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    What others say about you? Ambitious, weird, etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Annoyingly oppiniated sometime
    sometime negative
    pushy when it come to some goal (ambitious in term of music but I tend to reframe this as a career plan so I didn't had any feedback on this)
    weird.... It can happen but it's a long time I didn't got that. In fact the only guy I remember saying that was himself totally fucked up
    "directive" like if I'm too much into convincing other, not a good flow of speech
    Sometime taking too much place into conversation when it come to debating (overanalyzing) and explaining my POV
    procrastinating (not always)
    possess a sense of humor with ppl I know well
    listener and accomodating when IRL with a person in front of myself

    Super personality as you see

    I"'m not sure it's exhaustive or right I didn't got many outside output
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-11-2019 at 10:06 PM.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    Might be dominant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Ill redescribe myself when Ill feel better, perhaps I'm not in my natural state now (I'm having some problem currently).

    What Ive noticed while discussing with a girl who hanged out with a creative is that they don't forcibly make their hobby or creative personnality a goal, they are more into "searching" and "finding themself" then when they found themself they are happy.

    Myself is more about having a goal, wanting to do great in the goal, if possible involving other ppl and stuff


    perhaps I'm wrong.

    If I'm asking that it's because If I'm effectively dominant Ive things to work in my personnality for stopping to be an idiot (having impossible goal, pushing ppl where no one will follow me due to life imperative of everyone -this is what happened in our music "group"-, wanting to pass as creative because it correspond to the goal Ive) and beginning to accomplish my real role, stopping avoiding responsability, etc.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    By videos on the different EIIs I might come across harmonizing based on the vibe I got from them but I think I actually behave like a creative
    I am not the best person to approach if you want to protect what has been created (anything at all!) and keep it exactly that way. I will likely not do that as my instinct is to see what else can be done...what interesting new avenues are there.
    I am not the protector of the normal by any means (normalizing) nor the enforcer of the norm (dominant). I can be somewhat harmonizing yes, but I am not as...preserving of the ‘harmonizing’ atmosphere if you will...and as assiduous as them. But in vibe I come across soft like the EII-H example.

    What is your stacking, @noaydi?
    Last edited by VenusRose; 01-12-2019 at 04:10 PM.

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    Enneagram stacking ? What is stacking ? I'm generally not refering too much to enneagram, I feel like it's obscure fake science (even more than socionic)

    I am not the best person to approach if you want to protect what has been created (anything at all!) and keep it exactly that way.
    I'm identifying strongly with that. First time I encountered techno music, I almost redefined the genre in my head seeing a ton of possibility. This is why I began music. But with time, I've not trying to redefine, do new, do extra creative stuff, never stopping to do only creative draft, that I quickly understanded it to be idiot as I felt it lead to nothing aside making the more special things for impressionning everyone but finally touching the heart of no one (like making a 2 second piece with 1 note played just because no one have done it, or doing purposely whatever just because it could be creative). I concentrated on perfection and expression after that if I want to resume. I understand thought that perfection is not something great as it tend to make you procrastinating due to you thinking you have too much to do each time you want to begin something, but I can't help, I'm like that.

    In computerscience, I'm not the guy who will remake anything I touch, but if something have been done badly I'm just very annoyed to need to code from a project badly made. The company work like that, I'm not here for changing everything and taking 15 extra day for redoing a complete code and make the company loss a ton of money. But I often discuss how things could be improved in pause with colleague I feel connection with. If the code is badly made and it lead to loss of time for everyone, best is to engage someone to correct the code and is attributed specificaly to this task.

    Don't forget we have Ne in second position, it could be normal behavior for Ne dom/aux in term of creativity.

    You have access to different type of EII video ? I'm interested.

    edit : I begin to ask myself if Ne-INFJ are perhaps more like IEE when they decide what to do. Like "What Ill doing now ? possibly this, possibly that, possibly take a sandwich, possibly going to this party". Fi-INFJ is more grumpy and concentrate to his feeling probably : What I'm supposed to do ? this, shit I feel like shit it will be hard but go, or yeahhh I'm feeling on top for this I'm going for that. Just an idea.
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-14-2019 at 09:01 AM.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Enneagram stacking ? What is stacking ? I'm generally not refering too much to enneagram, I feel like it's obscure fake science (even more than socionic)
    https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/type-stackings/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/c...om_a_workshop/

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    sx/sp
    This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern (not sure of that). They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece (no). If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating (not really -my drugs use is clearly experimental, it ended as self medicating due to addiction but I stopped this behavior, I hate this, I want life and not feeling high evertime-).
    Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.
    Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer
    This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they’re involved (somewhat) with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it’s purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other’s buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It’s not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they’re able to support with heartfelt conviction (somewhat). May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.
    Motivation: to impact others, question assumptions, challenge convention.

    that's the two I identify the most but I'm feeling like the second is more "inside myself" and not that expressed, not like I'm super exhibitionnist/charism etc


    edit : this one too :

    sp/sxThese people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other’s condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant’s surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.


    Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    @noaydi I was reading this description, and it reminded me the conversation on here...

    3. "Judicious" trait (predominance of involutionary intuition of potential and sensing of sensations: -Ne -Si)In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to develop their own creative abilities and talents, to be proud of them, and to demonstrate them at any convenient opportunity 2) to freely develop one’s own creative potential, to choose an occupation by one’s preferences 3) to at length discuss any interesting to them topic from perspective of multiple meanings, demanding respect towards one’s opinion irrespective of whether or not one is knowledgeable of the topic 4) to respect the opinion of authoritative experts, to make references to authoritative sources (for as long as they are considered to be so) 5) to indefinitely talk about and discuss an interesting to them problem instead of resolving it (or in place of resolving it)
    (X)

    ...so perhaps "Creative" (DCNH) might even be something that just comes naturally to Delta quadra...

    Well, actually, probably somewhat Alpha as well since they have Ne valued also.

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    So after all that, what subtype could I be ?

    I asked a webfriend of mine with the question "do I search for the missing piece"

    with option :
    no
    a little
    a lot
    passionately


    she responded a little


    Ive a response for dominant subtype but as I'm not at my best shape, it could make things difficult and make me pass as dominant just because of nervousness

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    What people DEFINITELY say to me is that I'm analyzing too much stuff too, sometime engaging volontarely into controversial things, etc


    Combining DCNH and instinctual variant make stuff very uncomprehensible soup. We should stick to DCNH. I think too that DCNH is much more fluid than it is depicted (you don't have clearly dominant and clearly creative type, it's more linear).
    Last edited by noaydi; 01-15-2019 at 03:46 PM.

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