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Thread: Formalities

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Formalities

    Why do SEE women like formalities? I've noticed that they are so proper and put together. I almost wonder if Emily Post's Etiquette was written by an ESFp...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJWL1iq5is

    I don't care how many different types of forks go on a table as long as people come are eating and happy-people are not going to be eating silverware..they, I hope, will be eating good food lol

    "Leave a little bit on your plate"...this is etiquette? I eat all of my food (well as much as I can stuff in) haha
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I don't think SEEs do this more than other ethical types.

    People who call for others to have "manners" are often ethical rationals, ime. Ethical irrationals may do this too, but are a bit more relaxed about it. This is also cultural to a large extent.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    "Leave a little bit on your plate"...this is etiquette? I eat all of my food (well as much as I can stuff in) haha
    This is totally cultural.

    I remember in my parents home, leaving food on your plate was considered impolite. I was surprised to learn in grade school that in Thailand, eating all of your food is considered rude, because it is interpreted as a sign that the cook didn't give you enough. I learned something useful for once, because I used that one on my parents when they would want me to finish my plate and I didn't; they didn't argue with me about it and I could leave some food in my plate, lol.

    Anyways, I think you are describing a cultural misunderstanding. Not something related to type, iow, lol.


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    This is totally cultural.

    I remember in my parents home, leaving food on your plate was considered impolite. I was surprised to learn in grade school that in Thailand, eating all of your food is considered rude, because it is interpreted as a sign that the cook didn't give you enough. I learned something useful for once, because I used that one on my parents when they would want me to finish my plate and I didn't; they didn't argue with me about it and I could leave some food in my plate, lol.

    Anyways, I think you are describing a cultural misunderstanding. Not something related to type, iow, lol.
    possibly cultural. The video that I posted is an SEE advising women on proper date etiquette and she has other etiquette videos too. What I mean to reference was that among many other cultures of SEE I've found similar strange etiquette nuances. For instance in my own culture I spoke with an SEE girl who told me not to drive or buy a certain car that it made me look cheap. I thought "it's only a means of transportation." It's always centered around what impressions are given off to others.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Beautiful sky

    First impression when opening the video - that woman is EIE.

    Though I have noticed in some SEEs the tendency to worry alot about what others think of them. I don't think all SEEs are like this, it's just something that comes out when they are average to unhealthy. Every type has its negative tendencies which are accentuated by lower levels of health. Also, I don't think SEEs are the only type that can worry alot about what others think of them, lol. But base is possibly the most narcissitic type in terms of their appearance, and betas and gammas care more on average than alphas and deltas about making an impact on others, for example, appearing impressive by driving around in a nice car.

    But making an impression and caring about what others think of you aeren't the same thing, the former I see as a quality whereas the latter keeps you a prisoner to others' opinions.


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    @Beautiful sky

    First impression when opening the video - that woman is EIE.

    Though I have noticed in some SEEs the tendency to worry alot about what others think of them. I don't think all SEEs are like this, it's just something that comes out when they are average to unhealthy. Every type has its negative tendencies which are accentuated by lower levels of health. Also, I don't think SEEs are the only type that can worry alot about what others think of them, lol. But base is possibly the most narcissitic type in terms of their appearance, and betas and gammas care more on average than alphas and deltas about making an impact on others, for example, appearing impressive by driving around in a nice car.

    But making an impression and caring about what others think of you aeren't the same thing, the former I see as a quality whereas the latter keeps you a prisoner to others' opinions.
    insecurities centered around impressions?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    insecurities centered around impressions?
    Possibly. Different types will express insecurities in different ways.

    Making an impression can also be a way to search for meaning in today's world, I think. Since there is overpopulation and underepresentation, everyone wants to feel like they are powerful and make an impact, regardless of whether this is actually the case or not.

    Crowley's "Every man and every woman is a star" and Warhol's "in the future everyone will be famous for 15 minutes" kind of predicted this. Everyone can be famous in a way, with the internet, all you have to do is start a youtube channel or an instagram. And people post their whole lives on facebook. It's really a way for some people to feel validated in a world that has lost all meaning.

    Not sure what this discussion has to do with types anymore, haha.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Possibly. Different types will express insecurities in different ways.

    Making an impression can also be a way to search for meaning in today's world, I think. Since there is overpopulation and underepresentation, everyone wants to feel like they are powerful and make an impact, regardless of whether this is actually the case or not.

    Crowley's "Every man and every woman is a star" and Warhol's "in the future everyone will be famous for 15 minutes" kind of predicted this. Everyone can be famous in a way, with the internet, all you have to do is start a youtube channel or an instagram. And people post their whole lives on facebook. It's really a way for some people to feel validated in a world that has lost all meaning.

    Not sure what this discussion has to do with types anymore, haha.
    Did I successfully activate your Ne?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Did I successfully activate your Ne?
    Lol...it's my demonstrative function.

    I self-type as LIE btw, sorry I wasn't clear about that earlier when you typed me as LSE. Of course you don't have to agree with my self-typing. But that's what it is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Lol...it's my demonstrative function.

    I self-type as LIE btw, sorry I wasn't clear about that earlier when you typed me as LSE. Of course you don't have to agree with my self-typing. But that's what it is.
    Oh I see. Good
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Formalities is an Fi thing.
    Depending on who you talk to,
    I'm either deceptively deep
    or deceptively shallow.

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    Not SEE. I remember her being posted before. Could be ESI, or EIE. Like really, meticulously looking up the restaurant before you get there so you know how to dress? Seems neurotic.

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    Must be a Se thing maybe?

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    I think she's LIE e3 and is going into her Fe Role working on her Si PoLR and Fi seeking.

    At first I thought she was Fe. But her speech is boring and I've heard the same stuff said by another LIE e3 who's very concerned about ppl looks and how others judge others based in physical appearance and manners. It's very interesting how she sees seeks to manage interactions through norms (2DFe). Si and Fe seems to be areas of stress for her.

    "I'm not talking of striving for perfection here, I'm talking of striving for excellence."

    "If you follow the tips that I'm about to mention, you'll be armed to handle any situation presented and what's going to happen its going to make you be more confident in that situation."

    "There's nothing more attractive about a lady than having confidence. And if you are doing the right thing in the right situation you are gonna have confidence, because you are gonna know that what you are doing is right and that's the whole goal."

    "There's a difference between being a lady and being a woman, every female is a woman but not every woman is a lady"

    "A lady is defined as a woman who's polite, well spoken, put together and refined in her daily interactions. "

    "You may not like it, it may not seem fair but is the truth, we are judged immediately."





    "1) Dress for success.
    2) Arriving and leaving. Don't be late. Don't give long explanations. When leaving be cautious to not hold up the host, keep it very short and get out of there.
    3) Sitting and walking. (weird explanation of using imagination for having a good posture).
    4) Conversation. People with small minds talk about people. People with average minds talk about things. People with really great minds talk about events. Don't own the conversation, asking questions, nodding, giving compliments (too look more lady like), don't swear or using slang in social settings, never speak about what somebody else is eating, don't talk about wight, exercise, don't talk about people, things just events. etc.
    5)Landing assistance. Classy ladies always think in someone else. Offer to give a helping hand, bringing a bottle of wine, teach this to your kids, etc "


    Other topics on her videos: Budget Planning, Motivation for Success, Gift Guides, Etiquette, Prioritize your time, How to read invitations, The value of time, The road to success, Goal Setting, Classy ladies guide, beauty stuff etc
    Last edited by Blackberry; 01-08-2019 at 10:43 PM.

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    The way she cut together that last video comes across really abrupt and weird, lol ^

    But yes, I am also not that interested in her content...feels boring to me.

    At first I thought perhaps Se and Fe? But I am not sure I see Fi...at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    The way she cut together that last video comes across really abrupt and weird, lol ^

    But yes, I am also not that interested in her content...feels boring to me.

    At first I thought perhaps Se and Fe? But I am not sure I see Fi...at all.
    You don’t see her making guidelines for human interaction and behaviors?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I think she's LIE e3 and is going into her Fe Role working on her Si PoLR.

    At first I thought she was Fe. But her speech is boring and I've heard the same stuff said by another LIE e3 who's very concerned about ppl looks and how others judge others based in physical appearance and manners. It's very interesting how she sees seeks to manage interactions through norms (2DFe). Si and Fe seems to be areas of stress for her.

    "I'm not talking of striving for perfection here, I'm talking of striving for excellence."

    "If you follow the tips that I'm about to mention, you'll be armed to handle any situation presented and what's going to happen its going to make you be more confident in that situation."

    "There's nothing more attractive about a lady than having confidence. And if you are doing the right think in the right situation you are gonna have confidence, because you are gonna know that what you are doing is right and that's the whole goal."

    "There's a difference between being a lady and being a woman, every female is a woman but not every woman is a lady"

    "A lady is defined as a woman who's polite, well spoken, put together and refined in her daily interactions. "

    "You may not like it, it may not seem fair but is the truth, we are judged immediately."



    Doesn’t Si polr take pretty bad care of themselves?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    You don’t see her making guidelines for human interaction and behaviors?
    Yeah, well that's what I thought could be Te, even Fe. Depending on her intention behind it - efficiency and making it work would be more Te.

    I personally look for authentic, subdued and not over the top expression when it comes to Fi egos, even Gamma SFs. SEEs may not actually be subdued all the time as a person - but when it comes to Fi, even for them, I look for that since I think I can spot that 'familiarity' if you will of Fi, even in them.

    That being said I haven't watched beyond maybe less than a min of her content...I cannot get myself to be into it. So these are all just based on impressions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Doesn’t Si polr take pretty bad care of themselves?
    Self care of own physical sensations is opposed to being stressed over manners and wanting to normalize everybody and giving tips on how to be more lady like.

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    You know, I also thought of LIE when watching her content.

    Then I was like "obsessed with manners and how other perceive you - Fe to the max".

    But LIE could make sense if a 3.


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    ...what about SLE? I am not saying she absolutely is that type, but just curious..she could Se and Fe valuing with strong Te.
    She also seems to have a strong E1 influence, to me.

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    the more correct typing - the lesser questions appear
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Isn’t having strong needs to observe and push socially appropriate etiquette more Fe than Fi?

    As for the woman in the video, the only extrovert types I can rule out are Ne doms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Isn’t having strong needs to observe and push socially appropriate etiquette more Fe than Fi?
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Isn’t having strong needs to observe and push socially appropriate etiquette more Fe than Fi?
    Fe/Ti as a region of norms. Fe types also care lesser about other peoples feelings when then act against "socially appropriate etiquette". So base Fi types behave more politely than any Fe type. And because of this may demand (ESI, especially) with more efforts the polite behavior from others.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Fe/Ti as a region of norms. Fe types also care lesser about other peoples feelings when then act against "socially appropriate etiquette". So base Fi types behave more politely than any Fe type. And because of this may demand (ESI, especially) with more efforts the polite behavior from others.
    Can you clarify the bolded part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Isn’t having strong needs to observe and push socially appropriate etiquette more Fe than Fi?

    As for the woman in the video, the only extrovert types I can rule out are Ne doms.
    That's an trait. I can tell you from my own stronger trait that I find that sentiment to be utter BS save for the fact that I know my Darwinian selection theory and that, sadly, I'm on the wrong end of it save for a very convenient turn of modern events that puts me on the "right" end of it. Yes, it may work better for you if a Magical Meteor of fuck you or a Zombie Apocalypse happens but, barring that, we are a social species and the more social among us are very, very, heavily favored.

    Conformity, like crime, pays off 9 times out of 10 however. The only problem with the conformist model is why people like me exist. Yes, pays off 9 times out of 10. But oh dear god in heaven, that 1 in 10 chance's actually happening... Oh god, oh GOD no, please stop stop right now no no no why are those inferior peasants with their laughable notions of personal honor and internal conviction of what's right laughing so hard as they revel in their inferiority!

    In that case, boy oh boy does my line of thinking make itself abundantly clear as to why people like me exist. Peppered Moths. The land of Britain has quite the story in regards to them. That glaring disadvantage became a most supreme advantage. Black soot stained trees camouflage black moths very effectively. The previously "superior" model? Not so much. A thing to consider if you think thyself so utterly above the Hoi Poi (especially if you're in America).

    The "filthy peasants" are quite well armed, determined, and angry. Global, hell even orbital, mobility probably won't be enough. Unless you can rapidly construct an O'Neil cylinder in a 3 month time frame, you're pretty much fucked. Ya can't hide that project and people like me are actively looking for the clues that you're going for that. Once I know/see the Lagrange point you're aiming to construct it within (a very easy thing to do if you have even a most basic bitch level of computer and common sense BTW) I will just blow it the fuck up. Why? Because fuck you you neo-robber Barron tecnocrats that's why!

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    Reinin says that formalities are more of a process-type kind of thing
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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